Originally posted by Kento
I thought Old Kaioshin told Gohan to do the thing to go ssj and instead he went mystic. Plus one would think Gohan being the only person left he would have went ssj or ssj2..or Old Kaioshin would have been wondering why he hadn't when he was getting beat instead of sending Gokou with the Potara. Do you think Gohan could really use the power of ssj3? Gokou can't do it while alive. Gohan may have had a higher power level but mystic power up doesn't strain the body like ssj3.
I guess we will never know, Gohan didn't even know how to transform into a SJ3 but I suppose there isn't anything to say he couldn't go SSJ or SSJ2 while as his mystic self. I always wondered though how poweful Gohan would become if he did become a SJ3 while at his mystic powerlevel..I remember hearing sometime ago that the only reason he didnt transform into a SSJ while at his mystic level was because of the power would have destroyed his body which does kind of make sense the more I think of it.
Originally posted by Soljer
Then your best estimate is way off.
Well...I would be more than willing to finally take a stance on that. Do you have evidence from the manga that shows that Mystic Gohan is stronger than SSJ3 Goku? I don't want your words...I want proof.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Reported for trolling. doped
The smiling face makes your post so friggin' hilarious. 😆 😆 😆
Originally posted by TheBadguy
Thanks for proving my point. Relax fanboy, I don't care who wins this fight and the already too many pages in this thread plus the thousands all over the internet prove it's not going to be decided anytime soon. The anime is canon to the anime, it's an adaption of the manga, its not the manga, if it doesn't contradict something already established in the anime you can't just throw out parts as not "canon" like it never happened.
As far as the manga (the original canon) is concerned, anything that happened in the anime that wasn't in the manga never did happen.
I take as a yes then?
I believe the plop is Goku wanted the kids to try fusion and not intervine in a world when does not exist anymore, Piccolo ask him if he could beat the fat Buu and Goku smile, also when Vegeta lose in rock cissors paper, Goku said that he could beat the fat Buu.
At first he said he couldn't beat him:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/gokunderestimated.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/gokuisweak.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/onedaypassweaknessalsogokuweaker-1.gif
Is until this point that the speed has increase in a linear way right?
after Toriyama decide to continue the history he give Goku the Instant Transmision and stop any kind of quantificatio, am i right? what do you think?
Not sure what you're getting at here. IT isn't useful in every situation.
You wont find nothing like the normal people watching argument, and there is no comic relief in it like Mr Satan
Mainly because there were no "normal people" to observe the fights on Namek (except for Bulma, and she is able to see it when it happens).
and that was Freeza more suprese, weak and slow form, i call that historytelling too.
That "weak and slow form" was still strong enough to beat the crap out of every character from previous sagas.
But is not a conventional form of energy, like laser, or solar, or radiation energy it can be compare with the force energy from starwars, and in the case of the kamikase ghost attack, is just beyond what i said.
Superman deals with non-conventional forms of energy all the time. The only ones he is specifically weak to are Kryptonite and magic.
I didn't see anything that stipulated only the manga was being used for this thread, so if it happended in the anime it's canon. No logical backing? Maybe you need to develop some comprehension then, anime=anime, manga=manga is that still too difficult for you too understand? Show me where Toriyama said the anime isn't canon, the only place you'll hear garbage like that is from some random guy on the internet. lmao @ reporting, get a life, if you can't prove a point with some facts then I can see why you'd try to have someone shut up.
Are you asking him to prove a negative?
Burden of proof is on you.
Absorbing =/= TANKING a blast.
Try again.
You're right. It's actually more impressive since he took all of the energy into him directly, instead of just being near the explosion where most of it would fly off in random directions.
Supes abosrbed Solar Energy
Right, but the bomb was anti - solar energy, so it hurt him instead of helping him.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
As far as the manga (the original canon) is concerned, anything that happened in the anime that wasn't in the manga never did happen.At first he said he couldn't beat him:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/gokunderestimated.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/gokuisweak.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/onedaypassweaknessalsogokuweaker-1.gif
I know what the other guy is talking about. There was a part, later on, that Goku says he could have beaten the Fat Buu but he didn't because he wanted the others to be able to take care of Earth when he goes back to heaven.
Could you post those scans to confirm or disprove my above post?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
You're right. It's actually more impressive since he took all of the energy into him directly, instead of just being near the explosion where most of it would fly off in random directions.Right, but the bomb was anti - solar energy, so it hurt him instead of helping him.
LOL!!! pwnt big time. (I know I'm not supposed to post something like that because it is considered a "failed debating tactic"...but it was such a GOOD pwnt.)
Originally posted by Creshosk
It goes to show that moving from one panel to the next is not necciserily instant. Especially if there's supposed to be a good length of time between them.
That is not true, the most is when Goku stop Buu to make Trunks get the radar, then later when Buu + gohan was about to attack him he change inmidiatly to sjj3, same when he confront Kid Buu.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I know what the other guy is talking about. There was a part, later on, that Goku says he could have beaten the Fat Buu but he didn't because he wanted the others to be able to take care of Earth when he goes back to heaven.Could you post those scans to confirm or disprove my above post?
LOL!!! pwnt big time. (I know I'm not supposed to post something like that because it is considered a "failed debating tactic"...but it was such a GOOD pwnt.)
1. Mike knows too. I think. all in the manga.
Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]I know what the other guy is talking about. There was a part, later on, that Goku says he could have beaten the Fat Buu but he didn't because he wanted the others to be able to take care of Earth when he goes back to heaven.Could you post those scans to confirm or disprove my above post?
He said later on that he could probably beat him (I think what happened was that he changed his mind). But the point was that he was not sure about it.
Red sun does not take away superman powers.
Um, yes it does.
Miniblack holes were not use in DB to know your answer
Irrelevant. The point was that he has not show the durability to withstand one.
Planet - destroying weapons were never seen in Naruto, does that mean that Naruto characters are immune to them?
Originally posted by Endless MikeAt first he said he couldn't beat him:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/gokunderestimated.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/gokuisweak.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/onedaypassweaknessalsogokuweaker-1.gifNot sure what you're getting at here. IT isn't useful in every situation.
Mainly because there were no "normal people" to observe the fights on Namek (except for Bulma, and she is able to see it when it happens).
That "weak and slow form" was still strong enough to beat the crap out of every character from previous sagas.
Superman deals with non-conventional forms of energy all the time. The only ones he is specifically weak to are Kryptonite and magic.
1. At first he was just making time, his intention was teach the kids the fusion so when he is not around anymore they could be the defenders, everybody tough Gohan was dead.
2. I mean that from Raditz to the end of Freeza Saga there is a perfect lineal increase of power and speed, there is not plops like in the nexts sagas. IT is useful in a fight.
3. Bulma didnt and could not see nothing, check the manga again, about normal humans around, no they werent, but the Gyniu force, and then Piccolo and the others could not follow Goku. just like it should be because normal humans could not follow Goku since DB. Mister Satan is a comic relief, Toriyama like to put silly characters.
3. Yes, but the second form was faster, Piccolo fuse with Nail was equal to this second form Freeza, then Freeza were to his third form and Piccolo could not react to his beam, to fast for him, then Gohan cure by Dende attack this form of Freeza and Freeza upgrade to his maximum form, using minimum speed, Piccolo, Krillin and Gohan Together could not touch him, or see his beams, only Vegeta cure by Dende saw it, Vegeta attack Freeza thinking he was a SSJ, and Freeza toy with him, etc, etc, speed in the Freeza Saga has no inconsistencies.
4. Would you like to show me some enemy that base his power in ki in DC? or in spiritual attacks?
Originally posted by Endless Mike
He said later on that he could probably beat him (I think what happened was that he changed his mind). But the point was that he was not sure about it.Um, yes it does.
Irrelevant. The point was that he has not show the durability to withstand one.
Planet - destroying weapons were never seen in Naruto, does that mean that Naruto characters are immune to them?
Red sun only block his powers.
Saying Goku can not hold a black hole, is like saying Superman Energy can not reach other Dimensions acroos the universe, I see no point to use that
Originally posted by Vvendeta
1. At first he was just making time, his intention was teach the kids the fusion so when he is not around anymore they could be the defenders, everybody tough Gohan was dead.
Then why did he tell Picollo he couldn't beat him?
2. I mean that from Raditz to the end of Freeza Saga there is a perfect lineal increase of power and speed, there is not plops like in the nexts sagas. IT is useful in a fight.
Sure, to avoid an attack or set up the occasional sneak attack, but it's no substitute for actual speed.
3. Bulma didnt and could not see nothing, check the manga again
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/humanspercieve6.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/humanspercieve7.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/humanspercieve8.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/kireaction17.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/kireaction18.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/DBZ/kireaction19.gif
🙄
about normal humans around, no they werent, but the Gyniu force, and then Piccolo and the others could not follow Goku. just like it should be because normal humans could not follow Goku since DB. Mister Satan is a comic relief, Toriyama like to put silly characters.
Normal humans have been able to follow DBZ fights throughout the entire manga. Sure, they can move too fast to be seen for short bursts, but not for the entire fight.
3. Yes, but the second form was faster, Piccolo fuse with Nail was equal to this second form Freeza, then Freeza were to his third form and Piccolo could not react to his beam, to fast for him, then Gohan cure by Dende attack this form of Freeza and Freeza upgrade to his maximum form, using minimum speed, Piccolo, Krillin and Gohan Together could not touch him, or see his beams, only Vegeta cure by Dende saw it, Vegeta attack Freeza thinking he was a SSJ, and Freeza toy with him, etc, etc, speed in the Freeza Saga has no inconsistencies.
It's not inconsistent that their feats don't show them to be that fast. It's just the way things are. Unless you think that the characters actually got slower after the Frieza saga, then this whole line of reasoning is pointless anyway.
You still haven't quantified their speed either, you've just said "A was faster than B who couldn't react to C" etc. That's all meaningless unless you can attach numbers to it.
4. Would you like to show me some enemy that base his power in ki in DC? or in spiritual attacks?
I'd say the Spectre's powers are pretty "spiritual". Of course he can beat Superman simply because he is so much more powerful than him.
Red sun only block his powers.
Which has the effect of taking them away, since he can't use them.
Saying Goku can not hold a black hole, is like saying Superman Energy can not reach other Dimensions acroos the universe, I see no point to use that
Because it shows Superman's durability is superior.
Hey Mike got to go, i answer to you in the night, i would like to ask you if the trailer is god, would you go to see the DB live Movie?c u later
I'd probably watch it just for laughs, however it is probably going to suck. Live - action anime adaptations have never been good.
Originally posted by VvendetaFail. Try reading what I posted again.
That is not true, the most is when Goku stop Buu to make Trunks get the radar, then later when Buu + gohan was about to attack him he change inmidiatly to sjj3, same when he confront Kid Buu.
What I responded to proves that from one panel to the next is not neccicerily always instant. Sometimes multiple things can be shown in one panel, so one panel can be a spance of time. However from one frame to the next could have a much larger spance of time between them.
I realize that your English is being worked on. But try to think about what a person says before shooting your mouth off about something not being true.
Originally posted by Creshosk
It goes to show that moving from one panel to the next is not necciserily instant. Especially if there's supposed to be a good length of time between them.
I answer to this, what you are saying here, or implying here is that they take long time because there is “supposed to be a good length of time between them (panel)” And I answer to this saying that is not true, the only time is supposed to be a long amount of time is when Goku was making time for Trunks.
Check this:
YouTube video
You will see gohan grouting and taking one minute until he is transform, now check the manga
Originally posted by Vvendeta
1. At first he was just making time, his intention was teach the kids the fusion so when he is not around anymore they could be the defenders, everybody tough Gohan was dead.Endless Mike
Then why did he tell Picollo he couldn't beat him?
2. I mean that from Raditz to the end of Freeza Saga there is a perfect lineal increase of power and speed, there is not plops like in the nexts sagas. IT is useful in a fight.Sure, to avoid an attack or set up the occasional sneak attack, but it's no substitute for actual speed.
3. Bulma didnt and could not see nothing, check the manga againEndless Mike
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/...nspercieve6.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/...nspercieve7.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/...nspercieve8.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/...ireaction17.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/...ireaction18.gif
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/...ireaction19.gif
about normal humans around, no they werent, but the Gyniu force, and then Piccolo and the others could not follow Goku. just like it should be because normal humans could not follow Goku since DB. Mister Satan is a comic relief, Toriyama like to put silly characters.
Endless Mike
Normal humans have been able to follow DBZ fights throughout the entire manga. Sure, they can move too fast to be seen for short bursts, but not for the entire fight.
4.What is more logical to think, that the normal humans can watch some moments when the characters talk, or fight in the same position? Or they really can watch the whole fights and movement?
quote:
3. Yes, but the second form was faster, Piccolo fuse with Nail was equal to this second form Freeza, then Freeza were to his third form and Piccolo could not react to his beam, to fast for him, then Gohan cure by Dende attack this form of Freeza and Freeza upgrade to his maximum form, using minimum speed, Piccolo, Krillin and Gohan Together could not touch him, or see his beams, only Vegeta cure by Dende saw it, Vegeta attack Freeza thinking he was a SSJ, and Freeza toy with him, etc, etc, speed in the Freeza Saga has no inconsistencies.Endless Mike
It's not inconsistent that their feats don't show them to be that fast. It's just the way things are. Unless you think that the characters actually got slower after the Frieza saga, then this whole line of reasoning is pointless anyway.
5. I don’t think they got slower, I think there are more plop holes in the DB history after Freeza Saga; I think that Toriyama plan well his history until the Freeza Saga, an improvise in the following Sagas, he confess in the interviews he didn’t know how to finish the Cell and Buu saga, he respond of what the fans wanted instead of what he was trying to put (Gohan the new hero) he got stress and Tired of do more DB, therefore he make plop holes. But the standard speed of Goku in a crossover is not what you believe, and your argument of meaningless make the whole DB manga Meanigless, there is no Quantification in DB, only the history that tells us that the characters grow stronger and faster.
Endless Mike
You still haven't quantified their speed either, you've just said "A was faster than B who couldn't react to C" etc. That's all meaningless unless you can attach numbers to it.
quote:
4. Would you like to show me some enemy that base his power in ki in DC? or in spiritual attacks?Endless Mike
I'd say the Spectre's powers are pretty "spiritual". Of course he can beat Superman simply because he is so much more powerful than him.
quote:
Red sun only block his powers.Endless Mike
Which has the effect of taking them away, since he can't use them.
quote:
Saying Goku can not hold a black hole, is like saying Superman Energy can not reach other Dimensions acroos the universe, I see no point to use thatEndless Mike
Because it shows Superman's durability is superior.
Originally posted by Creshosk
You're from one of those DBZ fanboy schools for retarded idiots aren't you?🙂
So by your definition of tanking, even though he still took enough energy to destroy a galaxy. No matter what your idiotic ass says or pulls definitions out of your ass.
None of that Creshosk. Keep hostility out of this thread.
Originally posted by The Great GalenYea I heard that also..But it wasn't ever mentioned anywhere in the manga. I just think it's somebody trying to explain why he never went ssj in Z but goes ssj in GT or something.
I guess we will never know, Gohan didn't even know how to transform into a SJ3 but I suppose there isn't anything to say he couldn't go SSJ or SSJ2 while as his mystic self. I always wondered though how poweful Gohan would become if he did become a SJ3 while at his mystic powerlevel..I remember hearing sometime ago that the only reason he didnt transform into a SSJ while at his mystic level was because of the power would have destroyed his body which does kind of make sense the more I think of it.
Here is Old Kaioshin telling him to gather his energy like he does for Super Saiyan when he asked how to transform.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/Kento300/DragonBallZbook41131.gif
