Darth Sion vs Darth Sidious

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

As unsupported as it gets. Nihilus wouldn't have been letting him live yet dish out the mega ownage that he had just dished out. He was clearly going for the kill.

Oops how i forgot that with no connection to the force sions "invincibility" is pretty damm useless, even a simple force sever can block off sions control to the force which luke,nihilus and sidious can easily do

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Occam's Razor. Nihilus, he who has displayed the most destructive use of the force in the entire Mythos, unleashed a full on force onslaught onto Sion, and his entire body remained intact. The same goes with each cutscene that follows the Exile striking him down with her lightsaber.

Right, have you ever heard of a technique which severs the bond between life and the force? That without that bond, the victim will die according to kreia? Right, sidious and nihilus is capable of destroying that bond which can instantly kill its victims. Had nihilus used that technique sion wouldn't even last 1 second

Right and where did nihilus exactly "unleashed" his full power on sion? Right from what i recall he didn't in that cut content, he used the same technique on kreia, only that it cut her control to her powers, not off the force completely or she would have died.

A simple force sever by nihilus luke or sidious is enough to overpower sion seeing once his control is blocked, he would unable to command the force to even keep his body together

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Again, as said to Gideon, pure ability means jack. Sion possessed so much speed that he was able to slice off her hand in one move. The only factors, on her part, that would prevent such a thing would be speed and reaction time, both which draw from the force, which she has been shown to possess extraordinary ability with.

Fantastic logic "nebaris". I think 4 people calling out your name pretty much confirms it is you, seeing the way you type and bias for sion as well as the fact you ignore canon completely

Noobaris, there's a reason you've been banned more than 10 times. You can't debate, hell you can't even offer a convincing argument, and yet you sound like a broken record with your useless text.

1. Kreia was in a fighting stance, moron.

2. Sia Lan Wezz is no Kreia in force ability. Vader is no Sion in speed.

3. Darth Nihilus did use his sever connection ability against Sion, as indicated by the orange energy.

4. Darth Nihilus' sever connection ability attacks one's force connection. Yet it did nothing against Sion. He was able to resist it. So clearly simply cutting him off from the force isn't so easy.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
1. Kreia was in a fighting stance, moron.

2. Sia Lan Wezz is no Kreia in force ability. Vader is no Sion in speed.

3. Darth Nihilus did use his sever connection ability against Sion, as indicated by the orange energy.

4. Darth Nihilus' sever connection ability attacks one's force connection. Yet it did nothing against Sion. He was able to resist it. So clearly simply cutting him off from the force isn't so easy.

Except for the fact that you have no knowledge of Sion's speed, so to assume he's faster than Vader would further debunk your already poorly constructed argumented.

3 and 4 would be considered correct if they weren't n-canon..

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
1. Kreia was in a fighting stance, moron.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

2. Sia Lan Wezz is no Kreia in force ability. Vader is no Sion in speed.

Ask jolly jim for the link but oh well hes not here

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

3. Darth Nihilus did use his sever connection ability against Sion, as indicated by the orange energy.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

4. Darth Nihilus' sever connection ability attacks one's force connection. Yet it did nothing against Sion. He was able to resist it. So clearly simply cutting him off from the force isn't so easy.

Again that orange lightning isn't the force bond breaking technique seeing that his "sever force" is invisible when he used it against kreia, when he stripped her off her powers.

You fail

His force storm is far more powerful than nihilus bond breaking ability.

I have yet to see a Force technique that has caused as much devastation as Nihilus' Super Force Feeding technique did in a single go. His attack destroyed an entire planet.

That is like an attack from a Super-Weapon.

At-the-least it rivals Palpatine's Force Storm (Worm-hole) technique in terms of causing destruction, though the nature of these two Force techniques are highly different.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

At-the-least it rivals Palpatine's Force Storm (Worm-hole) technique in terms of causing destruction. [/B]

Actually, Palpatine's force storms bends the fabric of space, destroys entire fleets, hell it could ravage planets if he wished it so. You're wrong.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Actually, Palpatine's force storms bends the fabric of space, destroys entire fleets, hell it could ravage planets if he wished it so. You're wrong.

In short, Nihilus just spoke and a planet was dead soon after-wards.

And destroying a planet > destroying a fleet by a considerable margin.

Though since Palpatine's Force Storm can bend fabric of space, so that makes it possibly the most dangerous technique but Nihilus' Super Force Severing technique does rivals it in terms of causing death and destruction. So I am not wrong.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
But was she prepared is the real question

...

She held her vibroblade in a stance, ergo she was prepared.

That was not the claim, your original claim was that "zomg he hacked of kreias hand it means hes a god".

Nice Strawman. I didn't say it made him a God, I said that it makes his speed extremely impressive, considering the extent of Kreia's force ability, and more importantly, her precognition levels.

Im just using your fallible horrible analogy against you.

I simply pointed out what Sion did. That's not an analogy.

Oh and wheres the proof sion is faster than vader?

Being able to defeat a force user as powerful as Traya in one move purely through his speed. No other force user has displayed a level of speed that is too much for a combatant as powerful in the force as Traya to react to, except Luke against UnuThul.

Oh right how i forgot vader dodged a blaster bolt travelling at the speed of the bullet [b] after it was fired directly infront of him. Source: Emprie comics.

Ask jolly jim for the link but oh well hes not here[/b]

I really don't see how this is supposed to be impressive, given TPM Obi-Wan is able to do the same, or rather, something greater, given he was dodging repeating fire from a droideka. He even moves at invisible speeds.

Uh no, he did the same thing to kreia but wheres the orange lightning?

Sorry but his force breaking ability is invisible, it cannot be seen unlike normal force attacks save for crush,choke etc . He merely used a life drain to toy around with sion,

We don't even know that he used it on Traya. He might have, he might have not. I personally like to think so, and that the visuals are simply inconsistent, but either way, it doesn't matter.

What we do know, however, for absolutely sure is that he used it against the Exile, and there was visible energy of an orange colour coming out of his finger tips and spreading towards Sion, essentially collapsing your argument.

why [b] would he try to kill sion when he needs sion to do the dirty work, when sion aided him in beating the shit out of kreia, when sion and nihilus have the same goals wanting to destroy the jedi, nihilus is no idiot to waste a very useful and powerful ally.

Apparently you missed the entire concept behind Nihilus. He had one goal, and one goal only; to satisfy his hunger. He didn't give a shit about the Jedi or needing allies, he simply went where his hunger took him and fed. All he needed, was himself, his ship, and his crew.

As I already said, if he didn't want to kill Sion, he wouldn't have attacked him with a combination of four powers at the same time. A simple use of TK would keep him away just fine.

Prove he used it against sion, seeing i refuted your baseless claims

You can't refute shit fool.

Again that orange lightning isn't the force bond breaking technique seeing that his "sever force" is invisible when he used it against kreia, when he stripped her off her powers.

Already "refuted."

You fail

I may fail, but you, sir, phail.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Actually, Palpatine's force storms bends the fabric of space, destroys entire fleets, hell it could ravage planets if he wished it so. You're wrong.

You're ignoring the sheer scale of Nihilus' attack, Sexy one, along with the fact that the Force Storm is a power replicated by many, useless in a one-on-one situation, and an anomaly of a power in the sense that all you actually need to be able to summon one is knowledge of the ability. No power, or control required. I Can post a quote from the Tales of the Jedi Companion if you wish; it's under the power's very description.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
No, it's not.

Yes, and what exactly does Traya have to do with how Nihilus overpowered him?

As unsupported as it gets. Nihilus wouldn't have been letting him live yet dish out the mega ownage that he had just dished out. He was clearly going for the kill.

No, what prevents you is popular consensus. As much is obvious. Anyway, didn't you ever stop and consider that Nihilus doesn't truly qualify as a Sith (none of the KotOR Sith Lords do)? Nowhere in canon is Revan's Order (which is essentially what the Sith Triumvirate was spawned from) shown to have been ordained by any previous Sith Lord, or shown to be anything more than simple pretenders. The fact that the "True Sith" were still around whilst the Sith Triumvirate were in power, yet had no proper alliance with them, would suggest that they were, at best, pseudo Sith. Now, prove that Nihilus qualifies as a True Sith Lord, and then supply all these canon quotes that supposedly prove that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever.

2. Sion is always crying over his mommy like the insecure girl he is.

3. Lol, he could of used his Force Breaking attack and ended it, and orange lightning =/=Force Break, it was Force Drain.

4. The quotes have been provided. Nihilus had the mantle Dark Lord of the Sith, and is regarded as a true Sith Lord, by the likes of Bane, that other guy Krayt summoned, and Krayt(who they deemed a pretender).

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Except for the fact that you have no knowledge of Sion's speed,

Please try not to fall asleep at the keyboard Sexy. If you had actually stayed awake, you might have seen the evidence I had provided, in the form of Sion one hit defeating Traya in combat through his pure speed alone. So... Sion is one fast mofo indeed.

so to assume he's faster than Vader would further debunk your already poorly constructed argumented.

How exactly would a non progression of an argument debunk the rest of it? You make no sense.

3 and 4 would be considered correct if they weren't n-canon..

As V2K said, they're only N-Canon because of time restraints, meaning they may not be a part of the continuity, but they perfectly reflect the Game Producer's vision, and act as a perfect representation of their powers.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

...

She held her vibroblade in a stance, ergo she was prepared.
[/B]

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Nice Strawman. I didn't say it made him a God, I said that it makes his speed extremely impressive, considering the extent of Kreia's force ability, and more importantly, her precognition levels. [/B]

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

I simply pointed out what Sion did. That's not an analogy.
[/B]

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Being able to defeat a force user as powerful as Traya in one move purely through his speed. No other force user has displayed a level of speed that is too much for a combatant as powerful in the force as Traya to react to, except Luke against UnuThul.[/B]

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

I really don't see how this is supposed to be impressive, given TPM Obi-Wan is able to do the same, or rather, something greater, given he was dodging repeating fire from a droideka. He even moves at invisible speeds. [/B]

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

We don't even know that he used it on Traya. He might have, he might have not. I personally like to think so, and that the visuals are simply inconsistent, but either way, it doesn't matter.
[/B]

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

What we do know, however, for absolutely sure is that he used it against the Exile, and there was visible energy of an orange colour coming out of his finger tips and spreading towards Sion, essentially collapsing your argument.[/B]

Oh right if nihilus force sever didn't work if he actually used it, then why were the 3 inferior jedi masters, whom are all combined still no match for nihilus, nearly succeed in permanently cutting her off the force? Why?

Because that orange atatck is not his force severing ability. Again a force sever technique DOES NOT manifest itself as orange lightning as we have seen throughout various comics and sources.

Oh right i remember he destroyed katarr, wheres the orange lightning?, when he attacked kreia, wheres the orange lightning?

I remember no orange lightning when luke cut palpatine of the force, neither was there orange lightning when ulic got cut off, or the exile before kotor.

Your original claim is nihilus used the force sever technique on the exile and manifests itself as orange lightning which is totally unproven seeing there is NOTHING to back your claims

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Apparently you missed the entire concept behind Nihilus. He had one goal, and one goal only; to satisfy his hunger. He didn't give a shit about the Jedi or needing allies, he simply went where his hunger took him and fed. All he needed, was himself, his ship, and his crew.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

As I already said, if he didn't want to kill Sion, he wouldn't have attacked him with a combination of four powers at the same time. A simple use of TK would keep him away just fine.
[/B]

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

You can't refute shit fool.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Already "refuted."

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

I may fail, but you, sir, phail. [/B]

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
You're ignoring the sheer scale of Nihilus' attack, Sexy one, along with the fact that the Force Storm is a power replicated by many, useless in a one-on-one situation, and an anomaly of a power in the sense that all you actually need to be able to summon one is knowledge of the ability. No power, or control required. I Can post a quote from the Tales of the Jedi Companion if you wish; it's under the power's very description.

You DO know that the force storm in DESB and TOTJ are two completely different things right? Again who in TOTJ demonstrated palpatines force storm? Thats right NOBODY.

And who are the ones who have "replicated" palpatines force storm. Hell even wookiepedia says your wrong and common sense.

And no power and control required? You certeinly are an idiot, its been stated that the smaller the storms palpatine create the easier it becomes to control the technique.

I guess boba fett would have no problem replicating this feat as it requires only knowledge according to the almight nebaris

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
1. Yeah, it is.

How about supporting that silly, silly claim, which you've yet to do.

2. Sion is always crying over his mommy like the insecure girl he is.

Hilarious, really.

3. Lol, he could of used his Force Breaking attack and ended it, and orange lightning =/=Force Break, it was Force Drain.

Force breaking? So we're actually making up names for powers now, are we?

And you're wrong, the orange energy is identical to that he used against the Exile, which was his connection sever ability.

4. The quotes have been provided.

Copy and paste them, then, and do it now boy.

Nihilus had the mantle Dark Lord of the Sith, and is regarded as a true Sith Lord, by the likes of Bane, that other guy Krayt summoned, and Krayt(who they deemed a pretender).

Again, you're ignoring the fact that there were actually Ancient Sith still in action at the time. In fact, Revan's Sith Empire was essentially built to destroy the True Sith at the time. They wouldn't truly qualify as Sith, based on that fact alone. They were not taught or deemed worth of Sithdom by any other Sith before them. Nothing suggests that they were anything more than pretenders. So, time to prove up V2K.

As for your claim that Bane and Andeddu regarded him as a true Sith Lord; prove it. Do it now. Last time I checked, they didn't even make mention of Nihilus, and focused on Krayt. Just because they didn't actually directly go against Nihilus, it doesn't mean they didn't think of him as a pretender.

And even if such was the case, since when does having a couple of Sith respect you automatically make you a genuine Sith Lord? Go back to Darth Krayt for instance; he's actually a genuine Sith, given he was trained and deemed a Sith by an Ancient Sith Lord, so clearly Bane and Andeddu don't quite set the precedent for what it takes to be a true Sith Lord, anyways.

Really, too many faults with your argument V2k.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
Really? But again cutting her hands off when she is off guard counts as a big ass feat?

First, quit with the off guard bullshit. She was in a battle stance. She was prepared; she was ready.

And it counts as a big ass feat because it's not shown to happen again (to a force user of Traya's caliber) except in one circumstance: with Luke Skywalker. If not so powerful people possessed speed great enough to overpower someone with the precognitive abilities and force strength of Kreia in one move, it would be more often repeated, is my point.

Yet you make it seem so, your original claim that sion so called extremely talented with the saber was because he hacked of kreias hand quickly.

No, I never mentioned anything about talent, but overall battle prowess.

And you indirectly label him a god by doing so.

Lol. I indirectly labelled him a God? So, posting evidence of his incredible prowess indirectly labels him a God? Right. The fact that you would interpret such a thing would suggest that you find what I mentioned highly impressive, anyway.

Uh yes, lord nyax, sidious in dark empire, and vader himself has demonstrated "incredible speed".

Oh how I love debating with people who don't know how to read.

I never said that Luke was the only other who displayed incredible speed, I said Luke was the only other to completely overpower a combatant in one move with force ability on Traya's level.

How does hacking ones hand of make him "incredibly quick",

Because hacked hand belonged to Traya, force titan with unrivalled precognitive ability.

do you actually have any proof she completely for saw what he was going to do?

Given she possesses precognition, that would be yes. Point is, with Sion's speed, it didn't make the slightest difference.

And kreia was there to merely distract him so that the exile and atton could escape, nothing indicated she was even going to attempt to fight him considering the fact that she herself wants out the station

Indeed. She was there to distract him. Now how exactly was she going to do that, Galactus? Strip naked and give him a lap dance? No, more like she was going to distract him from the others by engaging him in combat. As evident by how she slowly approaches him... And goes into a battle stance when he reaches her.

Because you made the ridiculous claim "Oh sion hacked of kreia's arm fast so it means he is the fastest swordsman".

Strawman argument.

I really don't see how this is supposed to be impressive

Perhaps if you opened your eyes a little, you might.

Tell me smart ass, what does a force sever manifests itself as? Thats right nothing.

Have you not even read my entire post? As seen against the Exile, it manifests as Orange energy. Though that could purely be for the gamers benefit, in the same sense that healing has blue circles appear around the healed. But, as far as the Game cinematics are concerned: Orange Energy.

And kreia said that when she got attacked by nihilus, her powers were stripped from her and we see her trying to call out to the force to grab her saber but she couldn't. Oh right i forgot, her control to her powers has been cut off by his forcer sever.

As I've already said, I feel it likely that that is what Nihilus actually did do on her, and there are simply inconsistencies with the visuals. However, if you're gonna try and deny that, your argument can easily be countered by the facts that she could have been talking about her status as the head of the Sith Triumverate when she mentioned that her power s were stripped from her, and as for not being able to bring back her lightsaber to her, such could be explained by the fact that she would have been physically exhausted by that point. Further supporting that point is how she is able to use her powers later on, and even have some with her TK, despite not being able to move her saber (if her powers were completely removed, there would have been no effect).

Or, it could have simply been the standard force sever ability. Either way, as it stands, your argument has some serious holes in it.

How do you know it was his bond breaking ability?

Because he was desperate for some energy to satisfy his hunger for a little longer, and the way in which the Exile's wound in the force nature weakens him. This is because the Exile's force presence is fractured, and not whole, and the only reason why such a thing would have weakened Nihilus would be if he were drawing energy from the Exile, which is what his connection sever ability does.

😮.

Don't be embarrassed little guy.

The more important thing to take into account is he feeds on the death he caused, and he can caused death via by any means, technology, force attacks. He isn't limited to using one technique because the exile herself feeds on the death she has caused according to the jedi masters.

Again, you don't quite understand what Nihilus does. He forms bonds between living beings, and then attacks their life and force connections. and feeds on the damage caused.

Oh right if nihilus force sever didn't work if he actually used it, then why were the 3 inferior jedi masters, whom are all combined still no match for nihilus, nearly succeed in permanently cutting her off the force? Why?

Why? Because, and you apparently don't get this, you're dealing with two completely different techniques here. Nihilus' technique attacks the force that exists within the Exile, and feeds on it. The force that exists within the Exiles is damaged, and thus had the opposite effect on Nihilus than the one he was looking for. The force sever ability doesn't draw anything into its user, but simply destroys their force connection.

Because that orange atatck is [b] not his force severing ability. Again a force sever technique DOES NOT manifest itself as orange lightning as we have seen throughout various comics and sources.

As I already said, it might simply be purely for the viewer to see rather than what is actually visible in the setting, much like healing. And even if that were not the case, it's not unknown for different forms of mediums to represent things differently.

Oh right i remember he destroyed katarr, wheres the orange lightning?, when he attacked kreia, wheres the orange lightning?

Already dealt with.

I remember no orange lightning when luke cut palpatine of the force, neither was there orange lightning when ulic got cut off, or the exile before kotor.

All dealt with above.

Your original claim is nihilus used the force sever technique on the exile and manifests itself as orange lightning which is totally unproven seeing there is NOTHING to back your claims

Already backed up.

And prove that he tried to cut sions ability off.

It's evident through the orange energy.

Your an idiot you know that nebaris? Firstly if he was able to effortlessly cut kreia of the force whom is superior to sion, i don't see why he would have any problems doing it to sion, some one inferior to both kreia and himself where it would be [b] easier to cut him off the force

Kreia more powerful than Sion? LOL. I love how you proved that.

As for Nihilus, yes, he's more powerful than Sion, but the point is, Sion is able to resist attacks to such a degree that he remains mostly unaffected even when they're delivered from a more powerful foe. That's the entire point about Sion. He excels at keeping himself alive and resisting damage.

I have already done it again. And more importantly, can you? From whay iv seen, no you can't. You don't take canonical statements into accounts and ignore canon. You can't even back up your ridiculous claims and all you ever do is speculate. Hell even legend, the most bias kotor fan can form better arguements than you and at the [b]least back up some of his claims while you on the otherhand don't.

No, you haven't, and no, I have. Read above.

Hell even Legend? From what I've seen, Legend can present an argument with an infinite more amount of intelligence and ability than you can, so I really don't see why you're bringing him up as if you're somehow better than he.

Sure did

Sure didn't.

You may fail? Your being delusional, you have already [b] failed so the [b] failure is [b] yours

Brilliant finish. Seriously, your wit truly just blows me away. Wonderful.

Originally posted by GahLakTus
You DO know that the force storm in DESB and TOTJ are two completely different things right? Again who in TOTJ demonstrated palpatines force storm? Thats right NOBODY.

I was referring to the TotJ Companion, which details the exact same Force Storm that is seen in Dark Empire. Yes, the very one that ravages space and time.

And who are the ones who have "replicated" palpatines force storm. Hell even wookiepedia says your wrong and common sense.

Replicated was the wrong word. What I meant, was that many have been stated to have known it, those people being Nadd, numerous Ancient Sith and numerous Ancient Jedi.

And no power and control required? You certeinly are an idiot, its been stated that the smaller the storms palpatine create the easier it becomes to [b] control the technique.

It's not my fault if you're ignorant on the material. The technique is stated to grant the user a certain level of control over the storm.

I guess boba fett would have no problem replicating this feat as it requires only [b] knowledge according to the almight nebaris [/B]

Apparently I need to elaborate for the retarded.

The power is activated by focusing onto a certain part of one's body with force energies. Possess knowledge of that certain spot, and you can summon the force storm. Once summoned, the storm provides the user a certain level of control over it. It appears that the level of control granted depends on willpower and depth of hatred, according to Palpatine's words.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega
Again, you're ignoring the fact that there were actually Ancient Sith still in action at the time. In fact, Revan's Sith Empire was essentially built to destroy the True Sith at the time. They wouldn't truly qualify as Sith, based on that fact alone. They were not taught or deemed worth of Sithdom by any other Sith before them. Nothing suggests that they were anything more than pretenders. So, time to prove up V2K.[/B]

I have to ask you,if you don't consider Revan to be a true sith lord than you can't consider any other sith who followed after him to be a true sith including the likes of Dooku,Maul,Kaan and Darth Bane since they not have an sith from the ancient times of the sith empire declare them one.

Originally posted by Ultra Omega

Please try not to fall asleep at the keyboard Sexy. If you had actually stayed awake, you might have seen the evidence I had provided, in the form of Sion one hit defeating Traya in combat through his pure speed alone. So... Sion is one fast mofo indeed.

I didn't know you were an authority on "speed", or the author of KOTOR, or even ANYBODY credible to interpret the fight as "Sion won with speed alone", and "Sion is one fast mofo". Since there's no real evidence of this, you're an idiot.

How exactly would a non progression of an argument debunk the rest of it? You make no sense.

As V2K said, they're only N-Canon because of time restraints, meaning they may not be a part of the continuity, but they perfectly reflect the Game Producer's vision, and act as a perfect representation of their powers. [/B]