Hercules vs Wendigo

Originally posted by leonidas
if hulk didn't get stronger i'd say he'd beat him every time, yes. could be you're underestimating herc.

No not at all, especially how it takes Hulk + to beat Wendigo 😬

Definetly not the case, I know Wendigo's track record and I know what he has done and I know people stronger and more powerful then Hercules have failed against different hosts before. So with your logic, Hercules wins practically everytime with skill, even though that never helped him with the Hulk 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
comes down to h2h skills for me. wendigo has none. herc could defend himself. his durability is also pretty retarded though often underrated, as are his h2h skills. his claws are not unbreakable and while they would/could damage herc, the damage would not be as extensive as the damage wolvie could do even though wendy is so much stronger.

wolvie is more of a threat to herc than wendigo is. still say immortal herc takes him almost every time.

I don't think that Wendigo's claws not being unbreakable has anything to do with the outcome of this fight. If they make contact they're going to draw blood. They're most likely not going to break or shatter during the fight either so I fail to see how that plays into the odds whatsoever.
Likewise, if Wendigo does cut Herc with his claws they will cause damage. Just because the damage wouldn't be as extensive as that of Wolverine's, Wendigo's still a massive creature, his claws should be close to Sabretooth's in size and that's more than enough to gut Herc.
Also, Wendigo isn't as nearly as one demensional in the damage he can dish out as Wolverine is to a guy like Hercules. While his claws are nice additions, his strength is enough to go toe to toe with characters like Hulk and Squatch, uprooting entire landscapes and such.
Claw strikes don't even have to be lethal to effect Hercules' performance.
If Wendigo landed even two claw blows, that'd be enough to effect Herc.
The combination of punishment between evisceration and brute force dished out by the Wendigo would definitely compound on Hercules.
On the other hand, any damage Hercules dishes out is going to heal on Wendigo. And, since his HF is supplied by the magic of a curse instead of underlining factors like it is for Logan, the Damage Hercules dished out won't even have a chance to catch up to Wendigo unless Hercules is successful in using a continous barrage on Wendigo before Wendi can really defend himself.

Which ain't likely.. and why?
Because Wendigo is commonly portrayed as extremely quick for such a large brick type. Hercules usually does well against monsters akin to Wendi because he's so much faster than they are, he won't have any such advantage on Wendigo.

I will agree that Hercules' fighting ability, intelligence, and experience will play into him getting wins over Wendigo. But nearly every time? Hell no.
For the majority?... Well I thought at least that until I wrote this post.. Now I'm not quite convinced.

As for Herc vs. Logan... Well, if what Crusader did to Thor is any indication of what cutting and stabbing can do to an immortal than I have to disagree with that as well.

that's not exactly what i said. his skill would enable him to avoid the claws which would do the most damage. i was comparing his ability to use his skill effectively against wendigo against that particular inability against wolvie because wolvie is better h2h than he is. hence wolvie's claws would be a greater danger imo because herc wouldn't be able to fend them off as readily as he could wendigo's. his skill would help him more in this fight so his strength could win the day.

in straight up physical combat there really aren't many (any?) flat out more powerful than hercules at this level. he's beaten thor and stalemated every hulk save the ww version. hulk's healing and increasing strength are what enables him to stalemate hercules in their battles. hercules rarely exhibits h2h skill when battling hulk (other than when he was mortal, of course . . .) he'd have no choice against wendigo with his claws. wendigo has good healing and endurance as well but as good as it is, it isn't at hulk-level. not saying it would be easy, but i still say herc takes wendigo. 😬

Lulz again, "still say immortal herc takes him almost every time."

Yeah Herc has stalemated the Hulk, but who do you think clearly had the advantage in the fight? While Hulk every time has needed back up to take on Wendigo

Originally posted by jinzin
Wendigo may lack any sort of h2h skill, but his honed instincts should make up for that to some extent.

to some extent is exactly right. not enough of an extent imo.

I don't think that Wendigo's claws not being unbreakable has anything to do with the outcome of this fight. If they make contact they're going to draw blood. They're most likely not going to break or shatter during the fight either so I fail to see how that plays into the odds whatsoever.

herc's durability is underrated. his claws would certainly hurt but they wouldn't cut as deeply as wolverine's would.

Likewise, if Wendigo does cut Herc with his claws they will cause damage. Just because the damage wouldn't be as extensive as that of Wolverine's, Wendigo's still a massive creature, his claws should be close to Sabretooth's in size and that's more than enough to gut Herc.

disagree.

Also, Wendigo isn't as nearly as one demensional in the damage he can dish out as Wolverine is to a guy like Hercules. While his claws are nice additions, his strength is enough to go toe to toe with characters like Hulk and Squatch, uprooting entire landscapes and such.
Claw strikes don't even have to be lethal to effect Hercules' performance.

that's true, but he would still need to connect several times. that's where the skill issue comes in.

If Wendigo landed even two claw blows, that'd be enough to effect Herc.

meh. you're speculating. it would depend on the severity of the strikes.

The combination of punishment between evisceration and brute force dished out by the Wendigo would definitely compound on Hercules.
On the other hand, any damage Hercules dishes out is going to heal on Wendigo. And, since his HF is supplied by the magic of a curse instead of underlining factors like it is for Logan, the Damage Hercules dished out won't even have a chance to catch up to Wendigo unless Hercules is successful in using a continous barrage on Wendigo before Wendi can really defend himself.

Which ain't likely.. and why?
Because Wendigo is commonly portrayed as extremely quick for such a large brick type. Hercules usually does well against monsters akin to Wendi because he's so much faster than they are, he won't have any such advantage on Wendigo.

again i disagree. he typically does well against this style foe because he's more skilled. compound that with his grappling skills and he is simply too much in h2h battles for most at this level.

I will agree that Hercules' fighting ability, intelligence, and experience will play into him getting wins over Wendigo. But nearly every time? Hell no.
For the majority?... Well I thought at least that until I wrote this post.. Now I'm not quite convinced.

ah well. we'll agree to disagree. 😉

As for Herc vs. Logan... Well, if what Crusader did to Thor is any indication of what cutting and stabbing can do to an immortal than I have to disagree with that as well.

you misinterpretted what i said. when i said herc wins almost everytime, i was referencing wendigo, not wolverine. that particular fight is a lot more unclear in my mind. this one i don't have a lot of doubt about for whatever reason.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's not exactly what i said. his skill would enable him to avoid the claws which would do the most damage. i was comparing his ability to use his skill effectively against wendigo against that particular inability against wolvie because wolvie is better h2h than he is. hence wolvie's claws would be a greater danger imo because herc wouldn't be able to fend them off as readily as he could wendigo's. his skill would help him more in this fight so his strength could win the day.

Originally posted by leonidas
in straight up physical combat there really aren't many (any?) flat out more powerful than hercules at this level. he's beaten thor and stalemated every hulk save the ww version. .

Originally posted by leonidas
hulk's healing and increasing strength are what enables him to stalemate hercules in their battles. hercules rarely exhibits h2h skill when battling hulk (other than when he was mortal, of course . . .) he'd have no choice against wendigo with his claws. wendigo has good healing and endurance as well but as good as it is, it isn't at hulk-level. not saying it would be easy, but i still say herc takes wendigo. 😬

Originally posted by -K-M-
Lulz again, "still say immortal herc takes him almost every time."

Yeah Herc has stalemated the Hulk, but who do you think clearly had the advantage in the fight? While Hulk every time has needed back up to take on Wendigo

in which fight? there maybe a fight i'm forgetting, but on at least 2 occasions herc was shown as having the advantage. in their first meeting and again in the champions meeting.

anyway . . . i'm not really out to change your mind on this battle, since i doubt anyone could. but yeah, i'd say 8/10 herc.

Originally posted by leonidas
herc's durability is underrated. his claws would certainly hurt but they wouldn't cut as deeply as wolverine's would.

Originally posted by leonidas
disagree.

Originally posted by leonidas
that's true, but he would still need to connect several times. that's where the skill issue comes in.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh. you're speculating. it would depend on the severity of the strikes.

Originally posted by leonidas
again i disagree. he typically does well against this style foe because he's more skilled. compound that with his grappling skills and he is simply too much in h2h battles for most at this level.

Originally posted by leonidas
you misinterpretted what i said. when i said herc wins almost everytime, i was referencing wendigo, not wolverine. that particular fight is a lot more unclear in my mind. this one i don't have a lot of doubt about for whatever reason.

"wolvie is more of a threat to herc than wendigo is. still say immortal herc takes him almost every time."

Wait. So that second sentence is a reference to Wendigo then? If so, my mistake.

Originally posted by jinzin
I simply believe your overesimtating how effectively he could use that skill against someone as fast AND powerful as Wendigo is.
It might help him a bit sure. But it's not going to make him untouchable by any means. I've never seen any display of skill from Herc that would imply such either.

hence the dilemma. i think you're underestimating it AND herc's pure strength. he's dealt with hulk for an extended time in his mindless state. yes there were others, but herc was clearly the 'point-man' in the battle.

Perhaps it's that I haven't read his Hulk fights in recent years but I seem to recall him losing or at the least being on the run/avoiding/or team up against Hulk's blows as much as possible in the several encounters I remember.

nah. not really accurate at all my friend.

Wendigo's healing may not be at Hulk level but it's close enough. It had Wendigo running around without a scratch a minute after Logan had ripped him to shreds. It's advantagous enough to matter in a fight and it's more than Hercs sportin. Wendigo doesn't have to get stronger for Hulk to need assistance taking him down in nearly every encounter they've had, he's just that powerful to begin with. And once again, the damage he dishes out will multiply. The damage he soaks up won't.

you make it seem as though he can't be hurt or damaged. that's inaccurate. great physical force can and has dropped him in the past. a banner-controlled hulk (the weakest version of the character) and a 75-ton sasquatch took him out with 2 trees. in that battle banner-hulk hurt him and may have been able to finish him if he didn't stop to talk. herc could do the same thing but he'd hit a LOT harder and incorporate his own skills as well. there may be some hosts or versions of the curse that would be too much for herc, but the wendigo's i've seen would lose to hercules.

Originally posted by jinzin
Not at all, we're just talking about a character with Hulk level durability and strength he should be able to eviscerate Herc without much resistance if he lands a good hit.

damn you type fast. 🙂

anyway, IF is the big thing.

Again, I agree that his skill will help him evade some attacks, but for Wendigo's claws not to be a factor Wnedigo would have to get dropped before landing those several hits. In a 1on1 confrontation with Hercules, when all Herc has is brute strength which doesn't work well on Wendi in the first place. I don't see that happening.

if herc used his skills to the max as he was FORCED to do while mortal when he fought the hulk he'd be a much greater theat than he even is now. the choke hold he used on hulk while mortal would certainly be enough to take hulk out if he used it while in immortal form. the same choke took out thor pretty easily. thor was saved by summoning a bolt of lightning. herc really only needs to evade the claws, use his choke hold and i really don't see how wendigo could escape. he couldn't overpower herc like hulk overpowered mortal herc, and if thor couldn't escape . . . 😬

I'm speculating based on what I've seen one sword slash do to Thor, and one noncholant claw strike did to She-Hulk so it's not entirely without merit.

the claws WOULD do damage, but i think he could evade them long enough for his skill to allow him to take wendigo out.

"wolvie is more of a threat to herc than wendigo is. still say immortal herc takes him almost every time."

Wait. So that second sentence is a reference to Wendigo then? If so, my mistake. [/B]

yeah, reading it again i can see where you were confused. but yes i was referencing wendigo still. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
in which fight? there maybe a fight i'm forgetting, but on at least 2 occasions herc was shown as having the advantage. in their first meeting and again in the champions meeting.

anyway . . . i'm not really out to change your mind on this battle, since i doubt anyone could. but yeah, i'd say 8/10 herc.

Show me them.

Nice, but then again I'm actually looking at how it takes more then the Hulk to put Wendigo down and entire teams, but silly me. Wow, 8/10? yeah no.

Originally posted by leonidas
the claws WOULD do damage, but i think he could evade them long enough for his skill to allow him to take wendigo out.

great physical force can and has dropped him in the past. a banner-controlled hulk (the weakest version of the character) and a 75-ton sasquatch took him out with 2 trees.

You do realize Wendigo has tagged Nightcrawler and Aurora who are both faster then Hercules

Actually Hulk was slipping back into Savage mode in that fight, and Sasquatch 75 tons? *snickers*

Originally posted by leonidas
hence the dilemma. i think you're underestimating it AND herc's pure strength. he's dealt with hulk for an extended time in his mindless state. yes there were others, but herc was clearly the 'point-man' in the battle.

Originally posted by leonidas
nah. not really accurate at all my friend.

Originally posted by leonidas
you make it seem as though he can't be hurt or damaged. that's inaccurate. great physical force can and has dropped him in the past. a banner-controlled hulk (the weakest version of the character) and a 75-ton sasquatch took him out with 2 trees. in that battle banner-hulk hurt him and may have been able to finish him if he didn't stop to talk. herc could do the same thing but he'd hit a LOT harder and incorporate his own skills as well. there may be some hosts or versions of the curse that would be too much for herc, but the wendigo's i've seen would lose to hercules.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Show me them.

Nice, but then again I'm actually looking at how it takes more then the Hulk to put Wendigo down and entire teams, but silly me. Wow, 8/10? yeah no.

they're already posted. somewhere. i've posted them in the past and oly has done the same. . silly you if you think i'm gonna go dig them up. again, whether you believe is irrelevent to me. 🙂

8/10 ✅

Originally posted by leonidas
they're already posted. somewhere. i've posted them in the past and oly has done the same. . silly you if you think i'm gonna go dig them up. again, whether you believe is irrelevent to me. 🙂

8/10 ✅

Sweet debating

and your still wrong 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
damn you type fast. 🙂

anyway, IF is the big thing.

Originally posted by leonidas
if herc used his skills to the max as he was FORCED to do while mortal when he fought the hulk he'd be a much greater theat than he even is now. the choke hold he used on hulk while mortal would certainly be enough to take hulk out if he used it while in immortal form. the same choke took out thor pretty easily. thor was saved by summoning a bolt of lightning. herc really only needs to evade the claws, use his choke hold and i really don't see how wendigo could escape. he couldn't overpower herc like hulk overpowered mortal herc, and if thor couldn't escape . . . 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
the claws WOULD do damage, but i think he could evade them long enough for his skill to allow him to take wendigo out.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, reading it again i can see where you were confused. but yes i was referencing wendigo still. 🙂

Originally posted by jinzin
But there WERE others.. 😬
I'd view the feat as a slightly more impressive feat if those others were a bunch of pushover but they were also A-listers...

meh. true enough, but he was certainly the most effective and suffered no ill-effects from that VERY long battle.

Are these fights in the Herc repect thread. If I'm so innaccurate perhaps I'll take a gander.

i don't think their IS a herc respect thread . . . 🙁 i've posted them in various threads but i have no idea where. oly has done the same. maybe he'll remember where. 😬

Not really, I'm just stating what he's been shown to do.
Aside from that I agree with Mungi on the point to the Hulk/Squatch fight. [/B]

your perogative of course. but when hulk was doing damage in that fight it was while banner was in control though and yeah, that saquatch was NOT impressive at all. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
but when hulk was doing damage in that fight it was while banner was in control though and yeah, that saquatch was NOT impressive at all. 😬

Yeah the damage Wendigo merely brushed off, and Walter was commenting while Hulk and Wendigo were fighting Hulk was slipping back into Savage form

Or that Wendigo was very impressive 😬

Originally posted by -K-M-
Sweet debating

😂

i managed to avoid all the condescending lulz's and snickers though. so yeah. go me. 😉

and your still wrong 😬

thus speaketh the king and his decree makes it true.

Originally posted by -K-M-
Yeah the damage Wendigo merely brushed off, and Walter was commenting while Hulk and Wendigo were fighting Hulk was slipping back into Savage form

Or that Wendigo was very impressive 😬

sasquatch has been shown to do better than that in the past. perhaps he was written poorly, but that sas did NOT do well. if banner hulk could do what he did, there's no way around it accept to say he was written poorly or he simply was not shown at max in that battle. 😬