Originally posted by EvilAngel
We know that the forceof which is strong enough to tirp open a planet is moments. That implies the strength of TK needed to hold it must be very great.So IMO unless the fleet combined was planet sized. There really seems to be no contest in my mind.
explain the logic please, prove to me its the force, force implies that its pushing, Holy does not seem the type to cause damage through force, more through its magical energy..so it cannot be assumed that its force unless you can prove its forceful and its not just its magical energies (more sensible answer....surely yu dont think its forceful push if it has any is the reason of its damage)
incredibly heavy fleet>>>>a ball of energy of unkown weight which comes nowehre near to the size of super star destroyers
Originally posted by Burning thought
explain the logic please, prove to me its the force, force implies that its pushing, Holy does not seem the type to cause damage through force, more through its magical energy..so it cannot be assumed that its force unless you can prove its forceful and its not just its magical energies (more sensible answer....surely yu dont think its forceful push if it has any is the reason of its damage)incredibly heavy fleet>>>>a ball of energy of unkown weight which comes nowehre near to the size of super star destroyers
Force? It crushes the Meteor Gaara style. Aswell as wipes out all the mako monsters in the word. Thats my reasoning.
Planet destroying force > Fleet IMO.
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Force? It crushes the Meteor Gaara style. Aswell as wipes out all the mako monsters in the word. Thats my reasoning.Planet destroying force > Fleet IMO.
but that would be if it uses force, which ofcourse i dont see the logic in that since its not corperal, its energy, it wouldnt use force, weight etc etc to destroy something, its magical payload would of destroyed the meteor
the planet destroying magic > fleet, in power terms (maybe, actually star destroyers can deal huge damage to planets if fireing on them) but in weight, the Holy is unkown, its just energy, unlikely as hard to hold as a fleet would, and he is holding it together is he not? by saying that their flying or not falling apart because of his TK? thats an incredible feat, more than just weight but also precision on several parts
How heavy is Holy? Bullets are not as heavy as a 1,000 pound fat man, but would still go through him and the wall behind him. Also, it is not just holding together his ship, it is doing it while:
1. Keeping his whole fleet alive
2. Keeping his fleet mind enslaved.
3. Travel faster than light while in Hyperspace(which is more impressive than holding back Holy)
4. While killing all the life on a planet(which is also better than
Holy, Nihilus kills planets while he is holding his ship together, keeping hsi crew alive, and keeping them mentally enslaved, and shows no strain doing so).
Nihilus' TK is far greater than Sephiroth's.
Sephiroth's intangibility has never been proven to be combat efficient, and he may not even have it in AC.
The whole entire killing Nihilus while bodiless argument is ridiculous.
3. More impressive is an opinion, you fail.
4. Not better than Holy. When he can pull apart a planet in moments using his TK, then it's better. But he hasn't so it's not.
Hahaha, i like the bullet analogy, but that is incorrect.
You're holding a very destructive force back, that would be like holding in a blast from a bomb. You're using your TK to hold back a power than wants out. It has the power to tear apart the planet in moments. That'd be like you trying to cup your hand and hold in the blast from a grenade. But the force doesn't stop until you open your hands.
Very hard, and a VERY impressive feat.
I love how you're trying to downplay is so severely. That makes me think that if you accept this as the feat it is, DN loses pretty badly.
Originally posted by EvilAngelno id say it was fact..it would be much harder to hold a ship together when its flying at faster than light speed than it is to stop a force of magical energy
3. More impressive is an opinion, you fail.]
Originally posted by EvilAngel
4. Not better than Holy. When he can pull apart a planet in moments using his TK, then it's better. But he hasn't so it's not.
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Hahaha, i like the bullet analogy, but that is incorrect.You're holding a very destructive force back, that would be like holding in a blast from a bomb. You're using your TK to hold back a power than wants out. It has the power to tear apart the planet in moments. That'd be like you trying to cup your hand and hold in the blast from a grenade. But the force doesn't stop until you open your hands.
Originally posted by EvilAngellike i said earlier, it depends entirely on who acts the fastest..since nearly all sith lords move and react beyond mach speeds(some reaching lightspeeds), im gonna say nihilus is faster, givng him the win, since he can imobalize seph and torture him endlessly..
I love how you're trying to downplay is so severely. That makes me think that if you accept this as the feat it is, DN loses pretty badly.
Originally posted by MadMel
no id say it was fact..it would be much harder to hold a ship together when its flying at faster than light speed than it is to stop a force of magical energyhe tk raped all life on a planet with his presense alone..thats billions of lives, and he was exerting himself in any way 😬
yes, but im willing to bet that seph was exerting himself greatly when he pulled that off..
now imagine that you are trying to hold together a RC car (thats been broken into about 50 pieces) that is moving at mach 10, while at the same time, mind controlling 100 people and keeping them alive (meaning they dont need food or water of anything else) using only 10-20% of your total power, at the most..DN was never exerting himself when he pulled off the feats jaxx posted..like i said earlier, it depends entirely on who acts the fastest..since nearly all sith lords move and react beyond mach speeds(some reaching lightspeeds), im gonna say nihilus is faster, givng him the win, since he can imobalize seph and torture him endlessly..
You're trying to tell me my opinion now?
How do you know if armor is exerting himself?? it can't do facial expression can it?
No evidence to suggest he was. He fought 8 of the worlds strongest people, and lost, Like DN He didn't use that mega TK even when he lost, Like DN.
A car moving at Mach 10? Your point fails there.
React at lightspeed? I'm not sure what that means exactly, Has a sith ever reacted at lightspeed using TK as their weapon?
I'm curious, we've seen Sephiroth in FFVII Use his TK on peopel in the manner we're debating. Has DN?
The world population was done VIA Force which is not the same.
Originally posted by EvilAngel1. It really isn't. What would you consider more impressive, lifting ten tons, or grabbing a 1 tons vehicle by the back and holding it in place despite moments before it was going...say, Mach 5? That is pretty much the comparison here, holding together a kilometer in a half worth of torn apart starship while it's moving at a speed that if ti were to say, go through a planet, would shatter the planet, or just holding back a magical force which can destroy a planet? I'm gonna go with holding the ship, and that's not even counting mind controlling his whole fleet(more than 100 people were in his one main ship), keeping them all alive and such, while showing not even a hint of fatigue.
3. More impressive is an opinion, you fail.
4. Not better than Holy. When he can pull apart a planet in moments using his TK, then it's better. But he hasn't so it's not.Hahaha, i like the bullet analogy, but that is incorrect.
You're holding a very destructive force back, that would be like holding in a blast from a bomb. You're using your TK to hold back a power than wants out. It has the power to tear apart the planet in moments. That'd be like you trying to cup your hand and hold in the blast from a grenade. But the force doesn't stop until you open your hands.
Very hard, and a VERY impressive feat.
I love how you're trying to downplay is so severely. That makes me think that if you accept this as the feat it is, DN loses pretty badly.
2. Yeah it really is, Holy is just a big mass of energy that destroys the planet, compared to Nihilus' drain which creates bonds with all the life on a planet, then violently severing those bonds to kill all the life of the planet, and Nihilus feeds on its death. In fact, it is alot similar to the Negative Lifestream.
Yeah, Nihilus just keeps a near 2 kilometer long ship from tearing apart while it's moving at speeds that dwarf lightspeed while doing the other shit I mentioned.
Not really, Nihilus has more than just TK.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. It really isn't. What would you consider more impressive, lifting ten tons, or grabbing a 1 tons vehicle by the back and holding it in place despite moments before it was going...say, Mach 5? That is pretty much the comparison here, holding together a kilometer in a half worth of torn apart starship while it's moving at a speed that if ti were to say, go through a planet, would shatter the planet, or just holding back a magical force which can destroy a planet? I'm gonna go with holding the ship, and that's not even counting mind controlling his whole fleet(more than 100 people were in his one main ship), keeping them all alive and such, while showing not even a hint of fatigue.2. Yeah it really is, Holy is just a big mass of energy that destroys the planet, compared to Nihilus' drain which creates bonds with all the life on a planet, then violently severing those bonds to kill all the life of the planet, and Nihilus feeds on its death. In fact, it is alot similar to the Negative Lifestream.
Yeah, Nihilus just keeps a near 2 kilometer long ship from tearing apart while it's moving at speeds that dwarf lightspeed while doing the other shit I mentioned.
Not really, Nihilus has more than just TK.
Okay, Let's analogy it properly shall we. If that's what you want
100 tons Of T-1000 (Terminator 2) It is trying to escape from all directions. Stabbing, and forcing against you, and trying to force through you all the time (That is, if you're their trying to stop it), relentllessly for weeks and you can't give up, not sleep, not rest, not even eat. Then at the end some monkeys come and attack you with magic, guns, and sharp metal weapons
Or 3 tons of a boat, hold it togther, go at mach 5 for a few minutes and mind control some monkeys inside to work in it.
Yeah, i know which one sounds harder for me.
2. No, Holy is a concious force or power. It decided what lives and what died on that day. So don't go passing it off like that.
I don't know much about the NL so meh
Maybe, but His TK is weaker and less impressive that Sephiroths and Force powers won't work on Sephiroth. Shame that means He'd Lose to Sephiroth
Originally posted by EvilAngelif i implied that, its not what i meant 😬
You're trying to tell me my opinion now?
Originally posted by EvilAngelill quote what jaxx said earlier
How do you know if armor is exerting himself?? it can't do facial expression can it?
Nihilus TKs entire starships, ripping them from the surface of planets, and holding it together in space, even hyperspace. He mentally controls his entire fleet and keeps them alive(so they don't need to eat). Nihilus did this all, even while weakened from hunger, and then was weakened again when he tried to drain Exile, and then, with all this going on, fought Exile, Visas Marr, and Canderous, and was WINNING. He did eventually fall thoughhe was doing all this while severely weakened..the fact that he was at one point wtf owning exile, visas and canderous while doing everything else indicates that he wasnt using anywhere near his full power..so i was partly wrong..
Originally posted by EvilAngelim sure that holy did severely weaken seph..before holy "attacked" seph, the heroes couldnt move...when holy did attack, suddenly the heores had a fighting chance..correct me if im wrong, its been years since i last played FF7 😬
No evidence to suggest he was. He fought 8 of the worlds strongest people, and lost, Like DN He didn't use that mega TK even when he lost, Like DN.
Originally posted by EvilAngeli was comparing holding back an explosive force of magical energy to holding a broken ship that was moving at light speed while doing all of that other stuff without tapping in to his full power..i simply scaled it down the same way you did 🙄
A car moving at Mach 10? Your point fails there.
Originally posted by EvilAngeli never said that DN could react at lightspeed, i said most sith lords can move and react at mach speeds, but really powerful force users (like sideous and luke skywalker) can move and react at lightspeed
React at lightspeed? I'm not sure what that means exactly, Has a sith ever reacted at lightspeed using TK as their weapon?
Originally posted by EvilAngelDN tks lifts a 1-2 km long space ship and you're asking me if he can tk grip one person 😬
I'm curious, we've seen Sephiroth in FFVII Use his TK on peopel in the manner we're debating. Has DN?
Originally posted by EvilAngeltrue, ill admit that..
The world population was done VIA Force which is not the same.
Originally posted by EvilAngelfixed
Okay, Let's analogy it properly shall we. If that's what you want10 tons Of T-1000 (Terminator 2) It is trying to escape from all directions. Stabbing, and forcing against you, and trying to force through you all the time (That is, if you're their trying to stop it), relentllessly for weeks and you can't give up, not sleep, not rest, not even eat. Then at the end some monkeys come and attack you with magic, guns, and sharp metal weapons
Or 3 tons of a 80% damaged boat, hold it togther, go at lightspeed 24/7 and mind control some monkeys inside to work in it, as well as keeping them alive, and do it while severely weakened from hunger and from draining another powerfull force user..also, do it when you have drain the life from a planet, which itself takes enourmous amounts of energy, and finally, pit yourself and against 3 powerful forceusers in a fight and still have the upper hand
Originally posted by EvilAngelwhy not? you pass off DN's feats like they are nothing 😬
2. No, Holy is a concious force or power. It decided what lives and what died on that day. So don't go passing it off like that.
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Maybe, but His TK is weaker and less impressive that Sephiroths and Force powers won't work on Sephiroth. Shame that means He'd Lose to Sephiroth
Originally posted by EvilAngel1. I love how you display your lack of knowledge for SW. A few minutes? He's been doing it for YEARS! He has been holding that ship together for not months, weaks, days, and certainly not minutes, YEARS! Same goes with mentally enslaving his entire crew and keeping them alive. So, for years he has been doing all this, holding a ship together that goes into hyperspace regularly(millions of times FTL, which would shatter a large planet if it went thru it), mentally enslaving his whole crew, while keeping them alive, and even while DOUBLY weakened, he still mantained his grip on his ship and fleet until death without any show of strain from doing so. Holy is a mere magical energy that's only pupose is to destroy planetary threats, and all Sephiroth could do is TK some mere humans(advanced, sure) and an animal. Oh, and btw, with a gesture while weakened(not doubly), he brought the Exile's party, who are trained to resist Force powers, two being a Jedi and Sith, one being a Mandalorian warrior(the best in fact) to their KNEES.
Okay, Let's analogy it properly shall we. If that's what you want100 tons Of T-1000 (Terminator 2) It is trying to escape from all directions. Stabbing, and forcing against you, and trying to force through you all the time (That is, if you're their trying to stop it), relentllessly for weeks and you can't give up, not sleep, not rest, not even eat. Then at the end some monkeys come and attack you with magic, guns, and sharp metal weapons
Or 3 tons of a boat, hold it togther, go at mach 5 for a few minutes and mind control some monkeys inside to work in it.
Yeah, i know which one sounds harder for me.
2. No, Holy is a concious force or power. It decided what lives and what died on that day. So don't go passing it off like that.
I don't know much about the NL so meh
Maybe, but His TK is weaker and less impressive that Sephiroths and Force powers won't work on Sephiroth. Shame that means He'd Lose to Sephiroth
2. Yeah, so is Nihilus' hunger, it controls him as much as he controls it. It is a concious force that drives him to devour planets rich with Force Sensitives.
They are similar in what they do.
No, it really isn't, all he did was hold back Holy while TKing a few humans and an animal, lemme put it this way, 40 men can prolly flip or lift a bus, but those same men put together couldn't stop a Porsche moving at full speed.
EDIT: It has been explained MULTIPLE times that Force powers WILL work on Sephiroth, whether you choose to accept it or not is your perogative.
Originally posted by MadMel
ill quote what jaxx said earlier
he was doing all this while severely weakened..the fact that he was at one point wtf owning exile, visas and canderous while doing everything else indicates that he wasnt using anywhere near his full power..so i was partly wrong..
How was he Owning them, then lost?
Did he chop off a few limbs?
Originally posted by MadMel
im sure that holy did severely weaken seph..before holy "attacked" seph, the heroes couldnt move...when holy did attack, suddenly the heores had a fighting chance..correct me if im wrong, its been years since i last played FF7 😬
Holy got stronger, the planet was getting desperate.
Originally posted by MadMel
i was comparing holding back an explosive force of magical energy to holding a broken ship that was moving at light speed while doing all of that other stuff without tapping in to his full power..i simply scaled it down the same way you did 🙄
i never said that DN could react at lightspeed, i said most sith lords can move and react at [b]mach speeds, but really powerful force users (like sideous and luke skywalker) can move and react at lightspeed[/B]
Ok. You're Ratios are wrong
Has a Sith Lord Reacted at mach speed with TK as either weapon before?
Originally posted by MadMel
DN tks lifts a 1-2 km long space ship and you're asking me if he can tk grip one person 😬
Yes. Inanimate object don't resist.
People do. Much harder. Sephiroth has shown to TK 8 people, while holding back the Holy.
I'm asking if DN has ever been shown to TK a persons body
Originally posted by MadMel
fixedwhy not? you pass off DN's feats like they are nothing 😬
1. no it isnt..
2. they do, which has been proven
3. not likely
*reads* not funny, makes the ratio even more wrongm irritates me. What was the point in that again?
I'm trying to get a handle on them, bare with me?
1. Yes it is
2. On robots? they have the force within them, just because they have no medi count doesn't mean theres no force there
3. Seems likely to me
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. I love how you display your lack of knowledge for SW. A few minutes? He's been doing it for YEARS! He has been holding that ship together for not months, weaks, days, and certainly not minutes, YEARS! Same goes with mentally enslaving his entire crew and keeping them alive. So, for years he has been doing all this, holding a ship together that goes into hyperspace regularly(millions of times FTL, which would shatter a large planet if it went thru it), mentally enslaving his whole crew, while keeping them alive, and even while DOUBLY weakened, he still mantained his grip on his ship and fleet until death without any show of strain from doing so. Holy is a mere magical energy that's only pupose is to destroy planetary threats, and all Sephiroth could do is TK some mere humans(advanced, sure) and an animal. Oh, and btw, with a gesture while weakened(not doubly), he brought the Exile's party, who are trained to resist Force powers, two being a Jedi and Sith, one being a Mandalorian warrior(the best in fact) to their KNEES.2. Yeah, so is Nihilus' hunger, it controls him as much as he controls it. It is a conscious force that drives him to devour planets rich with Force Sensitives.
They are similar in what they do.
No, it really isn't, all he did was hold back Holy while TKing a few humans and an animal, lemme put it this way, 40 men can prolly flip or lift a bus, but those same men put together couldn't stop a Porsche moving at full speed.
EDIT: It has been explained MULTIPLE times that Force powers WILL work on Sephiroth, whether you choose to accept it or not is your perogative.
I love how you only seem to read part of what i write, twist my words
Read it again. I said move at mach 5 for a few minutes..... Pay attention.
That animal thing seems like it's supposed to annoy me. Don't do it, you know it will
He bought them to their knees and still lost? my god, his saber skill really must suck some major ass huh?
2. You do realise his hunger is about as conscious as the heroin addicts desire for their next load, right?
If some were mechanics they could..
You guys correct me where I'm wrong because clearly i don't understand this right:
I see the force as like.... water, that cover EVERYTHING in the SW universe. The medi's mass where the water is most dense, in a person who can sense and control the water well.
Like how Force powers are used on say, robots, doors, controls, they pulls the 'water' to force the given object to do what ever.
However, Since Sephiroth does not originate from the SW verse. He has no water in him. Thus... you can't use your water to affect him....
That a bad analogy, but it's the best i could do inside 2 minutes