Superman vs Black Adam(punchfest)

Originally posted by abhilegend
And? It's still as valid as any other showing, considering he had to amp himself using zeus's lightning to catch superman's punch again while a weakened superman caught his punch and threw him away, it's pretty consistent among other showings. Compare

to

and tell me cap is equal to superman in strength.

If it's a misnomer and something that hasn't been referenced since or shown to matter and something that frankly contradicts every other one of their confrontations, I'm not sure why you feel the need to cling to it as if it matters something fierce. But say we humor you and Cap needs to explicitly "amp" to match Superman.

So what?

He's not using external sources of power to do so (ie. the sun) or tapping into the Rock of Eternity or petitioning Shazam himself to boost his powers. He's using his own power set and the way each attribute works to match Superman. And he can apparently, if we decide to assume he needs Atlas' Strength and the Power of Zeus to match Superman, do so on a whim. Which means...well, he matches Superman. In any case, the totality of the Power of Shazam makes him on par with Superman physically. You can't divorce certain attributes of Cap's and call it "amping" when in reality that's just the nature of how his powers work.

You can tell me Superman is stronger than the Hercules who is Cap's primary benefactor when it comes to physical strength, but Cap doesn't just get his physical might from Hercules so it's moot.

Pretty much.

Accusing Cap of amping with Atlas's strength or Zeus's power is like accusing Iron Fist of amping with Shou Lao's chi.

...the f*ck happened in this thread?

pr1983

What Cap did to Supes actually seems more impressive to me.
Cap stopped Supes punch using strength. Supes from the looks of it used a MA technique. Kinda like aikido when you grab your oppoents attack and toss him. That can be done in RL. While what Cap did is next to impossible to perform in RL unless there's a huge strength gap.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
If it's a misnomer and something that hasn't been referenced since or shown to matter and something that frankly contradicts every other one of their confrontations, I'm not sure why you feel the need to cling to it as if it matters something fierce. But say we humor you and Cap needs to explicitly "amp" to match Superman.

So what?

He's not using external sources of power to do so (ie. the sun) or tapping into the Rock of Eternity or petitioning Shazam himself to boost his powers. He's using his own power set and the way each attribute works to match Superman. And he can apparently, if we decide to assume he needs Atlas' Strength and the Power of Zeus to match Superman, do so on a whim. Which means...well, he matches Superman. In any case, the totality of the Power of Shazam makes him on par with Superman physically. You can't divorce certain attributes of Cap's and call it "amping" when in reality that's just the nature of how his powers work.

You can tell me Superman is stronger than the Hercules who is Cap's primary benefactor when it comes to physical strength, but Cap doesn't just get his physical might from Hercules so it's moot.

Cap didnt amp.

That hole 'stacking' situation happened once and never again. And has been used by some, such as you, to extroplate for every meeting they've ever had. Doesn't work. It's cap's base strength, regardless of what makes up the totality of it.

And using the image of the lighting as some sort of evidence that he's somehow 'amping' his strength while catching Eclipso Supes' fist, without a direct statement, is baseless. The lightning surrounding him and the marvel family has seen plenty of uses as simply being superficial effects, without any attributation of anything more special or specific.

Tell me, was there any lightning surrounding Cap's body while he had Eclipso Supes in a headlock? Either time? No? And was Eclipso Superman able to break out his headlock either time on his own strength? No, he couldn't, could he? The first time, Cap had him in a headlock and that bomb thing served as enough of a distraction for Eclipso Supes to slip out (and get in the cheap shots that 'won' him the fight which was completely back and forth before then, but then again you never post the whole fight do you? just the end, and try to call it out as some clear cut stomp involving an unrestrained superman. quite dishonest aren't you?). Second time? He could not break out of the hold either, only when Cap turned back into Billy did he finally manage to catch him before he could say Shazam again.

Nor did Cap at any point 'yell' during a handshake. Stop giving twisted retellings.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Just because you don't like it doesn't makes it invalid. The only time cap has looked on par with superman without stacking powers is man of tomorrow 4. After that there is action 768 where cap yelled in pain in their handshake, S/B 4 and superman 216 you already know about. So no its not a misnomer or a contradiction. Superman can drop a few mental blocks and become beyond top tier or start absorbing more sunlight as he stresses. This is not how characters fight here, anyway adam is too arrogant to stack his powers.

Who said I don't like it? I already told you why I personally don't take much stock in it because:

A.) It was the only time Cap used Atlas' strength and not stamina, the attribute Atlas bestows upon Cap.

B.) Cap has never had to explicitly call upon his powers in such a manner to match Superman before or after that instance, hence my skepticism to believe that we should suddenly believe Cap needs Atlas' Strength and Hercules combined to match Superman.

C.) Even if Cap needs to stack his powers, if we use your line of thought it's apparently something he can do on a whim to match Superman, so what does it matter? Those are his powers.

And based on what is Adam too arrogant to "stack" his powers, assuming that he, like Billy, needs to do so in order to match Superman physically?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Cap didnt amp.

That was stated once and never again. And has been used by some, such as you, to extroplate for ever meeting they've ever had. Doesn't work.

And using the image of the lighting as some sort of evidence that he's somehow 'amping' his strength while catching Eclipso Supes' fist, without a direct statement, is baseless. The lightning surrounding him and the marvel family has seen plenty of uses as simply being superficial effects, without any attributation of anything more special or specific.

Tell me, was there any lightning surround Cap's body while he had Eclipso Supes in a headlock? Either time? No? And was Eclipso Superman able to break out his headlock either time on his own strength? No, he couldn't, could he? The first time, Cap had him in a headlock and a that bomb thing served as enough of a distraction for Eclipso Supes to slip out (and get in the cheap shots that 'won' him the fight which was completely back and forth before then, but then again you never post the whole fight do you?). Second time? He could not break out of the hold either, only when Cap turned back into Billy did he finally manage to catch him before he could say Shazam again.

Nor did Cap at any point 'yell' during a handshake. Stop giving twisted retellings.

👆

Originally posted by carver9
There my buddy go. Where have you been? By the way, no, i didn't copy and paste...all of that is new and fresh off the mind.

Playing Arkham City. And it wouldn't be fresh, considering you've used the same "debate" before, even though it means very little. 😬

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As far as the thread goes:

Abhi, stop with the lowballing.

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I honestly believe Superman IS stronger and more durable than Cap, but not to the extent that Cap is unable to do serious damage and possibly win in a one on one fight.

I disagree that Superman is generally portrayed as inferior to Adam; most of the DC movies haven't been very fair portrayals of Superman, with his "he hit me with magic, but ill charge him again" shite.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There's no amp it's just twisting evidence to support one's case. I detest these sort of shenanigans.

You must self-harm a lot.

Too far?

Just saying that if superman unloads on Adam like he would in a desperation attack on Darkseid, Adam would drop like a sack of bricks. I love how most people ignore the fact that even against most top tier threats superman has some level of restraint regardless of the situation due to his CIS. Considering this is a no holds barred fight and I'd put the likes of Darkseid and a top tier Doomsday >>>>>>>>> Black Adam. Magic vulnerabilities or no Black Adam is going to be worse for wear if he tries to straight up tank shots from superman in a no holds barred match of fisticuffs.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Cap didnt amp.

That hole 'stacking' situation happened once and never again. And has been used by some, such as you, to extroplate for every meeting they've ever had. Doesn't work. It's cap's base strength, regardless of what makes up the totality of it.

And using the image of the lighting as some sort of evidence that he's somehow 'amping' his strength while catching Eclipso Supes' fist, without a direct statement, is baseless. The lightning surrounding him and the marvel family has seen plenty of uses as simply being superficial effects, without any attributation of anything more special or specific.

Tell me, was there any lightning surrounding Cap's body while he had Eclipso Supes in a headlock? Either time? No? And was Eclipso Superman able to break out his headlock either time on his own strength? No, he couldn't, could he? The first time, Cap had him in a headlock and that bomb thing served as enough of a distraction for Eclipso Supes to slip out (and get in the cheap shots that 'won' him the fight which was completely back and forth before then, but then again you never post the whole fight do you? just the end, and try to call it out as some clear cut stomp involving an unrestrained superman. quite dishonest aren't you?). Second time? He could not break out of the hold either, only when Cap turned back into Billy did he finally manage to catch him before he could say Shazam again.

Nor did Cap at any point 'yell' during a handshake. Stop giving twisted retellings.

👆

The lightning around him is just for visual dramatic effect,
saying he must be using magic is comparable to SM using heat vision whenever his eyes are red , which is not the case.

I don't think Adam would drop like a ton of bricks.. He didn't in their clash just before Infinite Crisis, against an all out Superman.

Although, Superman does have it over Adam on beating down characters supposedly more powerful than he is.. Daxamites, for one, like Eclipsed Mon El and Tolos possessed Cil Gand.. Cyborg Superman.. Even Non, who seemed stronger.

I can't think of one example that proves Daxamites are > Superman though.. it was said constantly, but proven? Only Legion of Super Heroes Daxamites were obviously above him, and they were basically in an extended Pre Crisis period..

Still, even if Daxamites and Cyborg Superman don't live up to the hype of being more powerful, Superman won most of those under the worst conditions. Suffocating against Mon El, exhausted from an entire day of fighting against a fresh Cil Gand, taking extended attacks backed by an entire planets worth of power against Cyborg Superman...

...also, I wonder how pressure point strikes would affect Adam?

Supes used then a few times now, at least, against Ultraman and Gor...

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/capsupesarm2a.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/capsupesarm2b.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/capsupesarm2c.jpg

[b]You can't beat the strength of Hercules and Atlas combined. [/B]

Abhilegend, its a self amp. An amp thats part of his powerset to do , an amp he can do any time. So it counts as his strength.

It's like saying Captain Marvel's speed is amped when he calls on the speed of Mercury?? Or his wisdom amped when he calls on the wisdom of Solomon?? So what?? Thats how his powers work.

But tbh in that arm wrestle where they are equal it does seem like Cap is trying harder. Supes is quite layed back about it being a draw, whilst Cap was determined to win. So this combined with Supes far superior feats, makes me inclined to give Supes the edge in strength.

However Billy's magically amped fists should even the odds in a punch up.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Playing Arkham City. And it wouldn't be fresh, considering you've used the same "debate" before, even though it means very little. 😬

--

As far as the thread goes:

Abhi, stop with the lowballing.

--

I honestly believe Superman IS stronger and more durable than Cap, but not to the extent that Cap is unable to do serious damage and possibly win in a one on one fight.

I disagree that Superman is generally portrayed as inferior to Adam; most of the DC movies haven't been very fair portrayals of Superman, with his "he hit me with magic, but ill charge him again" shite.

You must self-harm a lot.

Too far?

Originally posted by MattDay
this is spite as soon as you said "not holding back" superman ftw

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

However Billy's magically amped fists should even the odds in a punch up.

I'm not so sure about that.

Superman catches Marvel’s punch, showing superior strength, while weakened(worn down from multiple fights, had some solar energy drained, and has been effected by Kryptonite to an increasing degree).

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=SupermanBatman04-23.jpg

Cap catches Eclipso Superman's punch when he's flying straight at him with one hand.

Superman catches Billy's punch with two hands.

OMG I'M SO MUCH MORE IMPRESSED WITH SUPERMAN!

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Cap catches Eclipso Superman's punch when he's flying straight at him with one hand.

Superman catches Billy's punch with two hands.

OMG I'M SO MUCH MORE IMPRESSED WITH SUPERMAN!

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Cap didnt amp.

That hole 'stacking' situation happened once and never again. And has been used by some, such as you, to extroplate for every meeting they've ever had. Doesn't work. It's cap's base strength, regardless of what makes up the totality of it.

Lulz at hypocrisy, so it happened once and never again, so it's out of canon somehow.

And using the image of the lighting as some sort of evidence that he's somehow 'amping' his strength while catching Eclipso Supes' fist, without a direct statement, is baseless. The lightning surrounding him and the marvel family has seen plenty of uses as simply being superficial effects, without any attributation of anything more special or specific.

Like when? So everytime marvel catches someone's fist, it's cue for dramatic effects, right. I think I'll go with official stance that zeus' lightning boosts all their physical stats temporarily. That's why he can catch superman's punch at an impossible position and struggle against an unwilling eclipso on the very next page.
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_06_Image_0001.jpg

Unless you can show me another instance where he used his lightning to just show-off, it's just your theory that doesn't match with captain marvel's official power-set.

Tell me, was there any lightning surrounding Cap's body while he had Eclipso Supes in a headlock? Either time? No? And was Eclipso Superman able to break out his headlock either time on his own strength? No, he couldn't, could he? The first time, Cap had him in a headlock and that bomb thing served as enough of a distraction for Eclipso Supes to slip out (and get in the cheap shots that 'won' him the fight which was completely back and forth before then, but then again you never post the whole fight do you? just the end, and try to call it out as some clear cut stomp involving an unrestrained superman. quite dishonest aren't you?). Second time? He could not break out of the hold either, only when Cap turned back into Billy did he finally manage to catch him before he could say Shazam again.

Who said it was a stomp? Well cap is still a peer of superman and it's going to be back and forth anyway. The thing is he still got his shit pushed in at the end and no matter how much you try to deny it, it's not going to change. It's a shame that there are no clones of captain marvel.

You mean this

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/action_comics_annual_04_42.jpg

Well considering he just dropped an entire structure on superman just before that and punched him in the temple just before that headlock, its not unreasonable to think that he could hold him in the headlock for a panel.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/action_comics_annual_04_41.jpg

The second time he had to weaken superman with shazam bolts before trying a headlock. Damn, I was wrong about "magic pwnzorrz kryptonians".

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_11_Image_0001.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_12_Image_0001.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_13_Image_0001.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/271_Superman_v2_216_Page_14_Image_0001.jpg

Nor did Cap at any point 'yell' during a handshake. Stop giving twisted retellings.

Yes, he did
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/ac768b.jpg

Now go back to wishing Lobo vs superman never happened during Eclipso crossover.