Darth maul vs Dark jedi bastilla

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
He obviously has not read the darth bane books. Even Revan knew how flawed these sith groups are

Those who accept the power of the dark side must also accept the challenge of holding on to it. By its very nature the dark side invites rivalry and strife. This is the greatest strength of the Sith: it culls the weak from our order. Yet this rivalry can also be our greatest weakness. The strong must be careful lest they be overwhelmed by the ambitions of those working beneath them in concert. Any master who instructs more than one apprentice in the ways of the dark side is a fool. In time, the apprentices will unite their strengths and overthrow the master. It is inevitable; axiomatic. That is why each master must have only one student.

This is also the reason there can only be one Dark Lord. The Sith must be ruled by a single leader: the very embodiment of the strength and power of the dark side. If the leader grows weak another must rise to seize the mantle. The strong rule; the weak are meant to serve. This is the way it must be.

And the brotherhood of the Darkness was pretty much doing the opposite and Bane realized this. And btw the sith or the rule of two did something that BOD,Kun's BOS, and Revan's sith empire never did and that was have control of the entire galaxy. Bane was a smart sith to do this and the results showed.

sorry about that one... I r a noob. I have not read the bane books, just the wikipedia about bane, and my theory was that while the jedi have hundreds, the sith are only allowed to have one. soz.

Wtf is a neb sock?

My time is limited so I wont have time to look for the quote of there being 10,000 jedi so if any1 else finds it please do post. Oh and knightfall if you don't know how to use the quotes at least puts some spaces between them so it is easier to know who I'm responding to.

hmm. well, where as (as I have proved by simple logic before) maul is say one of the best out of the lower half of sith, and malak is one of the mediocre out of the higher half of sith, and bastilla was able to engage malak in combat until carth and revan could escape, this defenitely puts bastilla on par with maul. So the correct answer to your above question is:... let me think.... EVERYTHING.

The thing Bastilla doesn't have to engage Malak for more than about 10 seconds. All she has to do is delay Malak to give them a head start. So this point is kind of moot since we don't know how long they battled other than the fact the Malak had to hold back since he spared her yet she was going all out.

just a thought but all this logic points to the fact that bastilla would be far more ready and able for Maul then Kenobi and Jinn, and yet, kenobi and jinn still killed him.

And no, Tyrannus was not a "Saber God" he was supremely skilled however, in the fact that he could keep yoda from killing him, and if I graduate you from a highschool class, if you should say I was trained in such and such by the great soandso, so I am just as good, you would be a fool.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
[B]QUOTE]During her short time as a Sith apprentice, she was capable of using Force powers such as Force Insanity, Force Choke, Force Wave, Force Shock, Force Plague, Force Breach, Drain Life, (Force Drain) and Force Stasis Field. From her point of view, she was more powerful than all but a few Jedi Masters.[2]

wouldnt that make her at least a match for maul? then she has way more force powers and abilites (as I have listed before) which would probably just about tide her over. or she could even do something totaly unexpected to him.

Having or showing more offensive powers does not mean one is stronger. Based on the powers you listed I'd say that she has shown more offensive powers than some jedi like even Yoda maybe but does that mean she can beat him? NO

As far as Dooku being a match for MAce,I believe Mace said so himself though I don't have the time now to look so if some1 else can please do.

Wtf is a neb sock?

o... well I am bran spanking new on this forum... and i dont think ive done anything worth being banned for that would make me look like nebaris...

qoute:
It might be true the Bastilla would be more prepared for jedi vs jedi or sith combat than qui-gon or ob1. But the fact is Maul was injured (on his leg i believe) for the duel. Furthermore he was the one leading the duo (qui gon recognizes this) and he did kill Qui-gon and in fact out dueled Ob1 who was enraged and using the darkside (a jedi using the darkside would surprise him) yet he still outdueled him hit a force push and by doing so in mid-air kenobi loses his lightsaber(not because of hole) so I could argue if the hole wasn't there that Kenobi would be unarmed for moment and Maul could continue the attack.
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too true, but what I meant is that bastilla has probably encountered Juyo before, whereas when maul was fighting the jedi, juyo had been on the verge of extinction, being replaced with Vapaad.
And, there were just so many more double bladed lightsabers when bastilla was alive then when kenobi Qui Gon Jinn.

qoute:
Having or showing more offensive powers does not mean one is stronger. Based on the powers you listed I'd say that she has shown more offensive powers than some jedi like even Yoda maybe but does that mean she can beat him? NO
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Her ability to engage malak for any ammont of time, (probably not ten seconds, as she became malak's apprentice, and I, at least, would not have an apprentice who was that much lower in skills then me) gives her some lightsaber skills, maybe enough to keep maul at bay, then if she used some force, it would put her at a slight advantage. thats all I meant with this. Yoda was named as "the most powerful enemy the darkness had ever known", so of course not, no she could not beat yoda.

and as for Maul being one of the most powerful sith apprentices in history, wouldnt dooku rise above him? Luke (yes, luke was Sideous's apprentice for a very short ammount of time)? Vader/Anakin? Id say this puts maul kind of low on the 10 most powerful sith apprentices in history... but, hes probably on there because, there were probably only 15 or 16 sith lords and apprentices since bane established the rule of two.

then there is bastilla who fought malak once, and revan twice, kept em busy for a while all three times, and I would rank malak mediocre as far as sith lords go, maybe even below average, and I would rank revan, just above average... so wouldnt she be pretty high on the apprentice chart?

Consequently, Master Nai Fool, "Psych" is way cooler then "House"...

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
As far as Dooku being a match for Mace, I believe Mace said so himself though I don't have the time now to look so if some1 else can please do.

Well, he was quite clearly wrong. Mace was able to defeat Darth Sidious himself as of ROTS. Why the hell would he lose against Dooku? I know "he > him so he < against him" are not valid, but it's just logical to assume Mace would be able to defeat him. Of course, without his Vaapad this could be a different story.

Originally posted by 0°Mandalore°0
Well, he was quite clearly wrong. Mace was able to defeat Darth Sidious himself as of ROTS. Why the hell would he lose against Dooku? I know "he > him so he < against him" are not valid, but it's just logical to assume Mace would be able to defeat him. Of course, without his Vaapad this could be a different story.

I'm not sure when he said that, that is if he did at all but i don't have time to check. I also think they dueled at one point but i can't remember for sure. I thought something along those lines we said not that they were.

too true, but what I meant is that bastilla has probably encountered Juyo before, whereas when maul was fighting the jedi, juyo had been on the verge of extinction, being replaced with Vapaad.

Her ability to engage malak for any ammont of time, (probably not ten seconds, as she became malak's apprentice, and I, at least, would not have an apprentice who was that much lower in skills then me) gives her some lightsaber skills, maybe enough to keep maul at bay, then if she used some force, it would put her at a slight advantage. thats all I meant with this. Yoda was named as "the most powerful enemy the darkness had ever known", so of course not, no she could not beat yoda.

and as for Maul being one of the most powerful sith apprentices in history, wouldnt dooku rise above him? Luke (yes, luke was Sideous's apprentice for a very short ammount of time)? Vader/Anakin? Id say this puts maul kind of low on the 10 most powerful sith apprentices in history... but, hes probably on there because, there were probably only 15 or 16 sith lords and apprentices since bane established the rule of two.

then there is bastilla who fought malak once, and revan twice, kept em busy for a while all three times, and I would rank malak mediocre as far as sith lords go, maybe even below average, and I would rank revan, just above average... so wouldnt she be pretty high on the apprentice chart?

And she was beaten all 3 times and even when Revan had no intentions on killing her. And we are not given time specifics so saying she held them off for a while may be far fetched.

anyway, thats my opinion, I know im not going to change yours, and you know your not going to change mind. Bastilla is far more skilled. Im out of this boring thread of eternal not-enough-canon-data-to-make-an-effective-arguement-either-way. so, while our opinions may clash, the only way to really tell would be to ask George Lucas, and I dont know about you, but He probably wouldnt want to meet adoring fan of this story #57060979871...

so there you have it. the only person who could settle this is george lucas because there isnt enough canon data to settle it either way. Im sure if there was, this thread would be way shorter....

Oh, please. You've yet to offer a shred of reasonable evidence to support your incredibly biased claims, if you assert that Bastilla is "mass pwnage!!1!" it is your duty to prove it. You've failed.

I have.

I have given every possible point of evidence that bastilla could take maul. i never said "mass pwnage!!1!"

you will never see things my way, and I am sorry, but I will probably never see things your way. we are now bickering constantly on the same points.

You people: maul was wounded and overconfident and was surprised when he died by a padawan

me: Bastilla has had way more experience with the type of combat that maul could hand out, fought against sith lords on multiple occasions, Had far more dueling experience, Has way more force powers then maul has ever shown, and survived her first episode....

and we are going to be debating this till trumpets sound Judgement day. then god will say "knightfall was right, now shut up" and then you will start debating with him.

I get tired when there are no new arguements or points to be distributed around, its just presenting the same facts over and over.

You've, once again, yet to prove anything. As far as God is concerned, myself being something of a divine being, let me assure you that God speaking on your behalf is rather laughable; he typically likes to be right.

How incredibly Humanistic of you. If YOU are a divine being, then strike me dead at my computor.

1. Bastilla has dueled more.
2. Bastilla has displayed use of more force powers.
3. Bastilla has dueled more skilled people then maul has.
4. Bastilla would be More ready to fight a user of Juyo.
5. Bastilla would be more ready to fight someone who uses a double bladed lightsaber.
6. Bastilla's IQ is significantly higher then maul's ("Maul had been an animal. A skilled animal, but a beast nonetheless."
¯Darth Tyranus's thoughts on Darth Maul[src] )
7. Bastilla has a more significant and unique ability that nobody else in the star wars universe has had on quite the same level as her.
8. has survived 4 duels.

Good Things going for maul that caused him to be able to kill Jinn.
1. More Physical Strength
2. More Hate
3. Has trained for longer
4. Has a more unique form and lightsaber then anyone else of his time. (juyo and double bladed) (see numbers 4 and 5 under bastilla)
5. Survived a duel, I wouldnt say won, because the other jedi decided the biggest chance of killing him lay in blowing both of them up.
6. has killed a lot more no names, and non force sensetives: Black sun, Nightsider, a bunch of others who are listed here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_maul

Bad things for bastilla that may cause her to lose:
1. She has never won a lightsaber duel.

Bad things for Maul that may cause him to lose:
1. He has never won a lightsaber duel (as I said before, the jedi he was fighting decided the highest chance of destroying this menace lay in suicide)
2. Very Low I.Q. (as shown by the valid 3rd person character dooku and the way he died twice)
3. Very bad foresight. (as shown by his inability to realize that Kenobi was going to jump up and try and kill him, and that vader killed him by stabbing through his own circuits)

there... its all fricking spelled out for you. as you can see, bastilla outclasses him... sorry.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
there... its all fricking spelled out for you. as you can see, bastilla outclasses him... sorry.

Either you are Noobaris, or you are a dumber version of Noobaris. Either way you're getting pwned.

keep your noobaris obsessed little **** out of my business.

and exactly HOW does that statement make me stupid? its true. every point listed there is CANON. if anyone can debate this now, then im so outa the versus forum.

I dare say he might actually be a poster dumber than nebby. If that isn't the case he's a neb sock.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
How incredibly Humanistic of you. If YOU are a divine being, then strike me dead at my computor.

1. Bastilla has dueled more.

I dare say that only 2 of her opponents were above average.

2. Bastilla has displayed use of more force powers.

3. Bastilla has dueled more skilled people then maul has

4. Bastilla would be More ready to fight a user of Juyo.
5. Bastilla would be more ready to fight someone who uses a double bladed lightsaber

. Bastilla's IQ is significantly higher then maul's ("Maul had been an animal. A skilled animal, but a beast nonetheless."

7. Bastilla has a more significant and unique ability that nobody else in the star wars universe has had on quite the same level as her.

8. has survived 4 duels.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
Good Things going for maul that caused him to be able to kill Jinn.
1. More Physical Strength

2. More Hate
3. Has trained for longer
4. Has a more unique form and lightsaber then anyone else of his time. (juyo and double bladed) (see numbers 4 and 5 under bastilla)

5. Survived a duel, I wouldnt say won, because the other jedi decided the biggest chance of killing him lay in blowing both of them up.

Except for the fact that Anoon Bondara's lightsaber skill was descrbed by the narrator as second to none. He was the lightsaber duelist at the time and he couldn't overcome Maul, this speaks volumes for Maul.

has killed a lot more no names, and non force sensetives: Black sun, Nightsider, a bunch of others who are listed here:

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11

Bad things for bastilla that may cause her to lose:
1. She has never won a lightsaber duel.

Nor has she had as much experience,training, physical strength,speed and hate

Bad things for Maul that may cause him to lose:
1. He has never won a lightsaber duel (as I said before, the jedi he was fighting decided the highest chance of destroying this menace lay in suicide)

Originally posted by Elite Hunter

Except for the fact that Anoon Bondara's lightsaber skill was descrbed by the narrator as second to none. He was the lightsaber duelist at the time and he couldn't overcome Maul, this speaks volumes for Maul.

2. Very Low I.Q. (as shown by the valid 3rd person character dooku and the way he died twice)

3. Very bad foresight. (as shown by his inability to realize that Kenobi was going to jump up and try and kill him, and that vader killed him by stabbing through his own circuits)

See above and Revan couldn't predict Malak's betrayal, nor could Sidious predict Vader's betrayal and Mace couldn't see Anakin's shatterpoint which cost him his life. And again both moves were very unexpected. I doubt any1 would think that as your delivering the blow to vader he would stab through himself.

and exactly HOW does that statement make me stupid? its true. every point listed there is CANON. if anyone can debate this now, then im so outa the versus forum.

1. nobody can predict their deaths, but he shoulda seen that coming more then sideous saw his cruel, twisted, pure evil apprentice turning to the lightside at the last minute.

2. I already said he has more Training, Strength, Hate, and Physical speed....

3. We barely See Maul talk, and he really seems like more of a physical brute then a mental brute. I mean seriously.... From what we see, from what dooku (whom I understand is a valid 3rd person?) says, all evidence points that hes stupider then most.

4. A exceptional point that I keep making is that Maul is the apprentice that I would route on for just smacking lightsabers together. He is an extremely skilled LightSaber User... the mere fact that Anoon Bondara thought the best way to kill him would be through self sacrifice, gives him some skillz.... BUt, Jinn was killed by him PROBABLY because he was the wise old mentor/trainer more then the Powerful and Homicidal Jedi. and maybe he was more of the Jedi's politician (notice HE was picked for the mission to the trade federation?) Obi wan (especially in this movie) shows far more phyiscality (like maul). he outdueled them, sure, but he was still killed by a move that anyone else would have seen coming.

Human reaction time is .02 seconds. maul should have been at least able to react to it when he saw obi wan jumping, as this scene is probably 200 times as long as the average human reaction time.

Yes, he is NOT human, but alot of the evidence you have shown me goes to show that he would have a FASTER reaction time.

So, He should have seen this coming, this might just be an inconsitency on Lucas's part, and maybe, maul should have won and had another cool fight in episode II as Dooku's freind/apprentice. of course, kenobi could fall and land somewhere safe in the big reactor shaft thing. like a service ledge? just a thought.

I mean technically Maul survived and spent the rest of his life looking for Kenobi to try and kill him, and finally cought up with him on tattooine, in which case, he would have died a second time at kenobi's hands, although kenobi was far more skilled at this point.

Originally posted by Lord Knightfa11
1. nobody can predict their deaths, but he shoulda seen that coming more then sideous saw his cruel, twisted, pure evil apprentice turning to the lightside at the last minute.

2. I already said he has more Training, Strength, Hate, and Physical speed....

3. We barely See Maul talk, and he really seems like more of a physical brute then a mental brute. I mean seriously.... From what we see, from what dooku (whom I understand is a valid 3rd person?) says, all evidence points that hes stupider then most.

4. A exceptional point that I keep making is that Maul is the apprentice that I would route on for just smacking lightsabers together. He is an extremely skilled LightSaber User... the mere fact that Anoon Bondara thought the best way to kill him would be through self sacrifice, gives him some skillz.... BUt, Jinn was killed by him PROBABLY because he was the wise old mentor/trainer more then the Powerful and Homicidal Jedi. and maybe he was more of the Jedi's politician (notice HE was picked for the mission to the trade federation?) Obi wan (especially in this movie) shows far more phyiscality (like maul). he outdueled them, sure, but he was still killed by a move that anyone else would have seen com

Or the reason qui-gon and ob1 were chosen was because they had a prior incident with the trade federation and then supreme chancellor valorum. You have yet to prove that any1 else could see the move coming much less bastilla. And if i'm not mistaken Qui-gon is called Qui gon-Qui-Gon Jinn was one of the most able swordsmen in the Jedi order So he does have saber skill even at his age in tpm which would also mean he would experience on his side.

Human reaction time is .02 seconds. maul should have been at least able to react to it when he saw obi wan jumping, as this scene is probably 200 times as long as the average human reaction time.

I mean technically Maul survived and spent the rest of his life looking for Kenobi to try and kill him, and finally cought up with him on tattooine, in which case, he would have died a second time at kenobi's hands, although kenobi was far more skilled at this point.