Rots Palpatine vs Nilihus and Sion

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Yeah, more point-by-point back and forth.

Let's cut to the chase: here's what I am presenting as the argument thus far.

[b]Assumption One: Sidious will be able to instantly make himself invisible in the Force using the technique of Quel'tek and thus will be immune to Nihilus, as the latter cannot see him whatsoever nor attack him while he is in this meditation.

- The point against: Nowhere has it been noted in an official source that Quel'tek does more than make one seem non-Force sensitive. This is even further elaborated upon by Clone Wars novels, where Jedi routinely refer to Palpatine as a normal person (They are still able to sense him in the Force) but not as Force-capable. Secondly, if Sidious does manage to make himself invisible in the Force, the moment he uses the Force to attack Sion, he reveals himself.

Assumption Two:: Sidious is better by far then either of his opponents singularly, so that even together they are like children before him in saber combat.

- The point against: Nowhere has Sidious' saber mastery been implied or explicitly stated in canon material to be better than either of the Sith Lords.

Even if we assume them to be on-par with a basic Jedi Master, their offensive Force abilities and knowledge make them more dangerous. So even if they refrain from attacking him with their glowsticks, they can lob lightning and force stasis at him all day long.

Secondly, absence of proof is not proof of absence; just because we don't have completely verifiable stack-ups of lightsaber ability for Nihilus and Sion does not dictate that they are inferior to Sidious because he has a whole five fights under his belt.

Assumption Three:: Sidious has had access to all Sith holocrons of all time and had full time to unlock all of their secrets. These holocrons give Sidious the ability to defeat each and every respective Sith Lord, including Nihilus since Nihilus has a holocron.

- The point against: Nowhere is it a given that Sidious was able to unlock Nihilus' holocron specifically, nor is it a given that Sidious was able to discern enough about Nihilus that he would immediately take the appropriate defense against him in the Force.[/.Quote]
To assume the former is sheer lunacy. Krayt is able to unlock Nihilus's holocron. He is merely rebuffed by Nihilus's spirit/gatekeeper to the detail of his flawed order, a problem Palpatine does not have. We know the secrets of what he had, studied with people who created those techniques Nihilus used, etc. 'Immediately' discern? No. But Palpatine has had a long time to study Nihilus's holocron and teachings. To suddenly assume he can't unlock that when he can use Bane's, Andeddu's, the Telos....it's massively illogical on your part. and demands evidence
[Quote]
To add more to this point, even if Sidious knew enough about Nihilus to know his powers in more than a passing interest, there is no guarantee that he would be powerful enough and quick enough to defend himself against Nihilus while having to contend with Sion as well.

Assumption Four:: Since Jacen, a Jedi in another era, used an ability which made him and others effectively invisible, Sidious may do this too.

- The point against: Nowhere has Sidious displayed this ability nor shown that he is among its users; secondly, he never used this ability against Mace Windu, the Jedi masters, or Yoda, which are his only four confirmed saber battles outside of sparring with Darth Maul as of RotS.

Assumption Five:: Sion is barely worth consideration here; he can be decapitated or hacked to pieces without effort by Sidious.

- The point against: Nowhere is it apparent that Sion is easy to kill.

Everything we know about him shows otherwise; he could not be physically overcome or killed by the Exile at full strength nor by the Exile backed up with allies. Jedi have fallen before him and he overcame Traya in saber combat rather easily.

Instead of trying to act like Sion being worthless as a padawan is evident and gospel, the opposing side should use any sources they can to prove their assertion that he is indeed inferior.

Assumption Six:: The fight between Sion and Nihilus versus Traya is not worth noting.

- The point against: Clearly, Traya is able to mask her presence in the Force too. Perhaps the opposing side here has forgotten, but she masks herself from Atris and is effectively invisible to all Force users in the game when she chooses to be.

Considering a woman like this had the same ability as Sidious and was overcome in seconds by Sion and Nihilus does not bode well for Sidious.

Assumption Seven:: Sidious will be more on guard with the Sith Lords and thus will defeat all their Force attacks.

- The point against: Nowhere is Sidious really shown to overcome his opponents solely using the Force as of RotS nor is he shown having an adequate defense. He is pushed effortlessly by Yoda in a heartbeat, he cannot push back Mace or otherwise impair him using the Force.

He could not stop the pod Yoda pushed back at him upwards and against gravity whereas Yoda had the ability to stop the same pod descending without any effort whatsoever.

Couple this with losing his Sith Lightning struggle against a smaller being who was on a ledge hanging by only his toe-claws and suddenly Sidious' Force defense comes into serious question.

Nowhere is it substantiated that Sidious will have a sufficient Force defense against two who have overcome someone with higher showings (Traya versus RotS Sidious). [/B]

Moreover, we see Traya actually activate her saber. Seems here she was expecting quite a different fight than she actually received and was unprepared for the attack Nihilus gave. That Sion joins in after she is beaten is irrelevant. That Nihilus is able to hurl her aside is also irrelevant to what techniques she knows. Where you're invisible or not-and nothing says she was using the technique there- a wave of concussive force is going to send her flying.

Also, you like to say that the Ancients 'knowing Nihilus's technique' is somehow evidence in the case for their superiority over him. Yet Palpatine possibly knowing the same and receiving training from the Ancient Sith Lords is overlooked in any evidence for his superiority. Why?

Allow me to pick and choose which points to reply to so I'm not bogged down in another point-by-point spat. Essentially, if I didn't address it here, it's because your rebuttal wasn't satisfactory to even make me second guess my points against. That may seem snobbing to you, but I reserve the right to ignore completely ridiculous rebuttals which lack substantce, evidence, and logical course.

Lucas even said, you need to be Mace or yoda to compete with Palpatine.

Lucas hasn't really made a stance on EU nor, by his own admission, read most of it. So for his word, yes, Palpatine is it. He's the master Sith in the movies. You have to be top of the movie era to compete with him. We're not talking about the movie era; this is EU. Lucas' vague statements don't hold water for EU because it's by his own admission "not [his] world"

To what end? Force stasis can be resisted and Palpatine has shown himself more skilled with lightning than either

Since when has Sidious shown the ability to resist Force Stasis from another Sith Lord? Since when has he shown as of RotS Sith lightning "more skilled" then either? You can't just claim and assert and it's fact, LS. Sources! I'm asking you for specific sources! I want the page, the paragraph, the wording, the screenshot, whatever. But don't came back at me with "He is better" type arguments or you're wasting my time.

The problem is that all he has to do with Sion is either hurl him out the window or roll his head from his shoulders with a swipe of his saber. As you are fond of saying, Sion is 'the tank.' Nihilus, however, is noticeably not proactive in most affairs. thre is little to say about his personality he will get involve while Sion is busy.

So SIdious is going to Force levitate Sion who apparently has no defense right from the doorway and out of the window? Or just decapitate him while Sion just stands there? And Nihilus is going to just sit there and fight with a Chinese finger trap during all of this?

That's three unsupported assumptions in four sentences. Horrible ratio, really. Prove up.

It's a higher level Qey-Tek. Lumiya and Vergere know it, too and what do they have in common? They're both former students of Palpatine. And why would that ability help him against Yoda or Mace? Both are fully aware of him as is and engaged in combat. There is simply no reason to do so then and there.

Substantiate this. Sources. Otherwise, don't assert it. Prove to me that Lumiya and Vergere know some "higher level" Quey'tek. Then substantiate how it makes Sidious immune to Nihilus and totally invisible to the point where Nihilus is going to stand there and get bufu'd.

Who said anything about killing?

A maimed Sion can still use the Force to hinder Sidious. Assuming he can be maimed right off the bat like you claim.

3. Traya specifically states Sion could not be bested by the Exile and party while 'Korriban flowed through him.' Moreover, there is nothing indicating Sion is capable of continuously fighting when missing his limbs. Neither the Exile nor her party are anything to Palpatine in either saber combat or force ability

So Sion on the surface of Korriban is powerful enough to hold off and nearly defeat the Exile and his/her buddies, and later the Exile his/herself cannot defeat him in personal combat... But somehow he is weak as hell and easily maimed? So apparently Sidious is so good and the gap between Sidious and say, any old Sith Lord is so big that they are all in pieces before they can ignite their lightsabers?

Fanboy say what?

Correction, he did not try. Unless he did so and failed, then you have zero case here

No, he looked scared and jumped away. Of course he could have just done it, I'm sure. You have a real case for your side, LS. [/sarcasm]

Yes, somehow having lightning pushed back by the most powerful Jedi master who had ever lived to that point is a serious demerit?
You continuously take into account only how Palpatine does against the best in the prequels and use that as evidence against him

Sidious was tooled and at a disadvantage against two Jedi of his era; Nihilus and Sion made every single Jedi go into hiding, die, or piss their robes in their era. Even Traya, Atris, and the Exile could not openly fight these two even separately. So if you're going to use that kind of scale, Nihilus and Sion are much scarier and more prestiged in their respective eras than Mace or Yoda.

Then it is a good thing Palpatine per ROTS is stated as per Heritage of Sith, the New Essential Chronology (author of whom has knowledge of Traya, Nihilus and Sion) and others to be the most powerful Sith there is.

Substantiate this load here for me please.

Show me where in Heritage of the Sith and the NEC that this claim is explicitly made in reference to these two Sith or all past Sith in dueling ability, overall Force powers, or if it's just another reference to his DE self. Please show me this, or stop putting it up here. RotS Sidious is a ****ing baby compared to his DE self; even DE Luke can crush an AT-AT with a thought, and I don't see RotS Sidious making DE Luke his *****, do you?

Oh, and while you're at it, make sure that both sources are using an objective and omniscient narrator's viewpoint and not some hyperbole, taken-out-of-context sentence, or in-universe third party opinion please.

If you want to dance around this by showings all of a sudden, you might want to confess Sion and Nihilus have nothing going for them with Saber combat.

Sion and Nihilus are head and shoulders above the Jedi of their era; whether its the Jedi Council in exile, the Exile herself, or Traya. No Jedi Masters put them on their ass, nor countered their abilities. SIon was only undone by his love and hatred of Traya and the Exile, while Nihilus greatly weakened himself by trying to feed off of the Exile who was a wound in the Force. So yeah, it's not quite the same as Sidious, who was confronted by four Jedi, and two of those kicked his ass. Not the same showing or impression of power. Some random claims from a source which has not yet even been substantiated doesn't help.

Moreover, we see Traya actually activate her saber. Seems here she was expecting quite a different fight than she actually received and was unprepared for the attack Nihilus gave. That Sion joins in after she is beaten is irrelevant. That Nihilus is able to hurl her aside is also irrelevant to what techniques she knows. Where you're invisible or not-and nothing says she was using the technique there- a wave of concussive force is going to send her flying.

Right, so Traya was just air-headed and despite all her knowledge, age, scheming and power, she just activated her saber and thought that Sion and Nihilus would honor Bushido and face her in plain sword combat? How stupid of an assumption is that?

Let me try:

Sidious, seeing as he activated his lightsaber first thing in the battle against the Jedi Masters and Mace, will likely do the same thing this time, and he won't defend himself against Nihilus and Sion but instead do his Psycho Crusher and be unprepared and get killed in five seconds because he's a total airhead.

Wow, I almost feel like a fanboy now.

Also, you like to say that the Ancients 'knowing Nihilus's technique' is somehow evidence in the case for their superiority over him. Yet Palpatine possibly knowing the same and receiving training from the Ancient Sith Lords is overlooked in any evidence for his superiority. Why?

Nihilus is using a technique started by the Ancients. Ragnos kept a staff which is as powerful as Nihilus is; it's pretty evident that if there's a way to overcome Nihilus, the Ancients have the expertise and level of power to do it.

Now... that's my rebuttal. I'm off for work. Expect to be gone a few days because of snow showers. I'll pick this up later. Try not to make it too nitpicky, because it gets tiresome when we start to move from the big picture to all these little details that don't answer in the first place.

Originally posted by Janus Marius
Allow me to pick and choose which points to reply to so I'm not bogged down in another point-by-point spat. Essentially, if I didn't address it here, it's because your rebuttal wasn't satisfactory to even make me second guess my points against. That may seem snobbing to you, but I reserve the right to ignore completely ridiculous rebuttals which lack substantce, evidence, and logical course.

You can't just claim and assert and it's fact, LS. [b]Sources! I'm asking you for specific sources! I want the page, the paragraph, the wording, the screenshot, whatever. But don't came back at me with "He is better" type arguments or you're wasting my time.

So SIdious is going to Force levitate Sion who apparently has no defense right from the doorway and out of the window? Or just decapitate him while Sion just stands there?

And Nihilus is going to just sit there and fight with a Chinese finger trap during all of this?

That's three unsupported assumptions in four sentences. Horrible ratio, really. Prove up.

Substantiate this. Sources. Otherwise, don't assert it. Prove to me that Lumiya and Vergere know some "higher level" Quey'tek.

Then substantiate how it makes Sidious immune to Nihilus and totally invisible to the point where Nihilus is going to stand there and get bufu'd.

A maimed Sion can still use the Force to hinder Sidious. Assuming he can be maimed right off the bat like you claim.

So Sion on the surface of Korriban is powerful enough to hold off and nearly defeat the Exile and his/her buddies, and later the Exile his/herself cannot defeat him in personal combat... But somehow he is weak as hell and easily maimed?

So apparently Sidious is so good and the gap between Sidious and say, any old Sith Lord is so big that they are all in pieces before they can ignite their lightsabers?

Fanboy say what?

No, he looked scared and jumped away.

Of course he could have just done it, I'm sure. You have a real case for your side, LS. [/sarcasm]

Sidious was tooled and at a disadvantage against two Jedi of his era;

Nihilus and Sion made every single Jedi go into hiding, die, or piss their robes in their era. Even Traya, Atris, and the Exile could not openly fight these two even separately.

So if you're going to use that kind of scale, Nihilus and Sion are much scarier and more prestiged in their respective eras than Mace or Yoda.

Substantiate this load here for me please.

Show me where in Heritage of the Sith and the NEC that this claim is explicitly made in reference to these two Sith or all past Sith in dueling ability, overall Force powers, or if it's just another reference to his DE self.

[Quite] Please show me this, or stop putting it up here. RotS Sidious is a ****ing baby compared to his DE self; even DE Luke can crush an AT-AT with a thought, and I don't see RotS Sidious making DE Luke his *****, do you? [/Quote]
Oh, boy, here we go. The 'ROTs can't be so powerful because DE Palpatine is so much more powerful.'
considering the time they fought, DE Palpatine was far, far more powerful than Luke was and Luke and Palpatine literally entered into states of sheer oneness with their sides of the Force to the degree LEia could only feel the power each was giving off? ROTs Palpatine and DE Look were certainly have a time with one another. Never mind we know under his brief tutelage, to quote the visual guide, Luke's power increased a great deal with Palpatine

Oh, and while you're at it, make sure that both sources are using an objective and omniscient narrator's viewpoint and not some hyperbole, taken-out-of-context sentence, or in-universe third party opinion please.

Sion and Nihilus are head and shoulders above the Jedi of their era; whether its the Jedi Council in exile, the Exile herself, or Traya. No Jedi Masters put them on their ass, nor countered their abilities.

SIon was only undone by his love and hatred of Traya and the Exile, while Nihilus greatly weakened himself by trying to feed off of the Exile who was a wound in the Force. So yeah, it's not quite the same as Sidious, who was confronted by four Jedi, and two of those kicked his ass.

Not the same showing or impression of power. Some random claims from a source which has not yet even been substantiated doesn't help.

Right, so Traya was just air-headed and despite all her knowledge, age, scheming and power, she just activated her saber and thought that Sion and Nihilus would honor Bushido and face her in plain sword combat? How stupid of an assumption is that?

Let me try:

Sidious, seeing as he activated his lightsaber first thing in the battle against the Jedi Masters and Mace, will likely do the same thing this time, and he won't defend himself against Nihilus and Sion but instead do his Psycho Crusher and be unprepared and get killed in five seconds because he's a total airhead

Wow, I almost feel like a fanboy now.

Nihilus is using a technique started by the Ancients. Ragnos kept a staff which is as powerful as Nihilus is; it's pretty evident that if there's a way to overcome Nihilus, the Ancients have the expertise and level of power to do it.

Now... that's my rebuttal. I'm off for work. Expect to be gone a few days because of snow showers. I'll pick this up later. Try not to make it too nitpicky, because it gets tiresome when we start to move from the big picture to all these little details that don't answer in the first place. [/B]

Wonderful. Sion and Nihilus are head and shoulders above everyone in their era? Exactly who is everyone Janus? Revan's war left than 100 jedi alive, most of whom cannot be found. So please quantify their power in respect to being "head and shoulders" above everybody else.

Second point. There is NOTHING that states or shows us any kind of above average ability possessed by the sith lords in terms of saber combat. Palpatine was able to do away with 3 of the best in meer seconds, so how hard would it be to do away with two sith lords who have at best, average/above average abilities?

The last point is with the Sidious argument. You can claim "in universe!" all you want, but there are enough sources (including the anciet sith themselves), to put Palpatine above every other sith in the SW mythos.

I have to say that I find your constant imperatives to "substantiate!" sort of amusing, since all you've offered for the "uber dueling skillz!!1!" of Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion is a bunch of horseshit, like: "Sion killz Jedi Masters like its hiz job!!1!" -- which really does not register on any logical scale. Once again, I stress that neither Lightsnake nor myself are arguing that Darth Sidious's victory is the likely result, but I'm afraid that there is a significant chance that it could happen. He is equipped with the means and powers to dismantle both Nihilus and Sion, since -- outside of Nihilus's uber-drain and Sion's psuedoinvincibility -- neither one of them have demonstrated powers, skills, knowledge, and cunning on par with the Galactic Emperor and, no offense, your attempts to prove otherwise have been lackluster. Tobin has already provided commentary for the fact that Darth Nihilus cannot sense regular human vitality unless it is in mass quantities; use of Quey'tek would shield Palpatine's massive potency in the Force from him, leaving nothing to "see". This would allow Palpatine ample opportunity to attack and defeat Nihilus (since the Dark Lord has not been proven to possess powers or skills with a lightsaber approaching Sidious's). Then all that remains would be Sion, who has not been proven, suggested, or implied to be anything but a very large, well muscled bug with a lightsaber. If you are to suggest that these two are a threat to him outside of their individual "superpower", which the Emperor is capable of overcoming, it is you who bears the burden of proof. Get on it. 'Til then, there's no reason to continue this debate.

I have been thinking about Sion and does any else think it is possible that he can't be killed only in areas strong in the darkside. Because on Korriban Kreia says he can't be killed while "Korriban flowed through him." and on Malachor Sion says" Now you realize the true power of the darkside. As long as the dark places of this world flow through the cracks of my flesh, I cannot be killed." It is a theory for now but I thought I should throw it out there.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
and on Malachor Sion says" Now you realize the true power of the darkside. As long as the dark places of this world flow through the cracks of my flesh, I cannot be killed." It is a theory for now but I thought I should throw it out there.

Hmm. That's actually quite decisive if Sion truly said that, verbatim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNAI7EM_zVg

Yeah, I think it's obvious little will actually KILL Sion.

Still, nothing prevents him from being disabled.

Originally posted by Gideon
Hmm. That's actually quite decisive if Sion truly said that, verbatim.

I can see Sidious actually incinerating Sion's flesh. What's he gonna put back together then?

Originally posted by Gideon
I have to say that I find your constant imperatives to "substantiate!" sort of amusing, since all you've offered for the "uber dueling skillz!!1!" of Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion is a bunch of horseshit, like: "Sion killz Jedi Masters like its hiz job!!1!" -- which really does not register on any logical scale.

Does it really matter? I fail to see how technical prowess with a saber means so much when you have a level of force ability that Nihilus and Sion do; the latter whom was able to overpower the ridiculously powerful Traya (who displays an unparalleled ability with precognition) in one move in combat with his speed alone, which as a showing of ability, puts RotS Palpatine's best (doing the same to the largely less impressive Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin), to shame. When you have a titanic level of ability with the force like Sion and Nihilus do, where you'd be able to amp up your speed, strength, and predict the moves of your opponents to a far greater degree than almost anyone, technique wouldn't logically even be a real factor, unless your opponent rivalled you in force ability (which RotS Palpatine, based on shown limitations, most certainly does not when you're dealing with titans like Nihilus; compare being forced to dodge a senate pod moving at minimal speeds to tearing an entire fleet out of a gravity well -- and the same goes with Sion based on our knowledge of the two; the fact that Sidious never displays anything approaching a godly display of the force would mean that there's nothing to suggest that they'd be on par with someone who has).

On that note, since when exactly was Palpatine the man when it came to saber technique anyway? We know that he hadn't practised with a lightsaber for over a decade by the time period we're dealing with, so he's pretty much in the same boat as Sion and Nihilus here, being that out of practise, at the very best for him (for all we know, Sion and Nihilus actually were well trained with the lightsaber; whereas we know that Sidious definitely wasn't by RotS).

Once again, I stress that neither Lightsnake nor myself are arguing that Darth Sidious's victory is the likely result, but I'm afraid that there is a significant chance that it could happen.

Please, even his DE self wouldn't stand a chance against the two of them; his RotS hasn't even displayed ability close to that of the weaker of the two: Sion, and would logically get destroyed in a fight against the both of them.

He is equipped with the means and powers to dismantle both Nihilus and Sion, since -- outside of Nihilus's uber-drain and Sion's psuedoinvincibility -- neither one of them have demonstrated powers, skills, knowledge, and cunning on par with the Galactic Emperor and, no offense, your attempts to prove otherwise have been lackluster.

Well that's quite clearly untrue; Sion displays ability far beyond that shown by Sidious when he overpowers the ridiculously powerful Traya (before anyone points out that Traya was a historian and logically lacking in technical ability with the lightsaber, it doesn't matter; technique only comes into play during a lightsaber exchange, not when you fail to block a single opening strike (where the only factors would be speed and reflexes, both powered mostly by the force, which Traya was The [wo]Man with)). Aside of that, Nihilus TKing an entire fleet out of a gravity well is also far beyond anything we see from Sidious at this point. Not to mention, does it truly matter anyway? Ignoring Nihilus' Force bond severing technique, or Sion's ability to cheat death (both being their greatest gifts, which would both apply to Sidious, and which both are testament for their overall ability) in your comparison naturally undermines the conclusion you draw from it.

I'd also like to see proof that there's an actual limit to Sion's ability as well, given that you're clearly making the assertion that there is.

Tobin has already provided commentary for the fact that Darth Nihilus cannot sense regular human vitality unless it is in mass quantities;

No, he provided commentary for the fact that regular human vitality didn't demand his attention. In this scenario, where it's assumed that Nihilus would be fighting to win, his attention would clearly be directed at his opponent.

Either way, the fact that he was able to direct a force stasis at the non-Force sensitive Mandalore (and thereby, sense him), effortlessly, would indicate that he has little trouble with sensing regular beings when he focuses on them.

use of Quey'tek would shield Palpatine's massive potency in the Force from him, leaving nothing to "see".

Firstly, Palpatine's usages of Quey'tek have never hidden his entire force sensitivity, just most of it, to the point where it appeared that he didn't possess enough of it to be able to effectively wield the force.

Secondly, as proven, Nihilus has no problem with sensing the force signature of regular beings, as proven with Mandalore.

This would allow Palpatine ample opportunity to attack and defeat Nihilus (since the Dark Lord has not been proven to possess powers or skills with a lightsaber approaching Sidious's).

Again, what exactly does Sidious himself even have going for him in that area? He had been out of practise for over ten years, nothing points to his technique being beyond Nihilus' own, and he's clearly lacking in force ability.

Then all that remains would be Sion, who has not been proven, suggested, or implied to be anything but a very large, well muscled bug with a lightsaber.

Don't be ridiculous. There's his force ability, which largely factors in on overall lightsaber ability, and then of course, there's his level of physically durability, which even better than Bane's orbalisk armour, enables Sion to take a fully offensive stance in a lightsaber battle without needing to defend himself, allows him to block attacks with his body, and integrate melee attack into the fight with -- again -- no need to worry about being vulnerable. The above would actually give Sion a somewhat unique style, which Sidious logically wouldn't know how to deal with.

If you are to suggest that these two are a threat to him outside of their individual "superpower", which the Emperor is capable of overcoming, it is you who bears the burden of proof. Get on it. 'Til then, there's no reason to continue this debate.

Their individual "superpowers" are testament for their overall ability. They both draw off of the force, and rely on their ability with it to achieve such feats. That ability is transferable with all applications of the force. Irregardless of that, they've both displayed abilities outside of their "superpowers" that go beyond those shown by Palpatine, as of RotS, and you've yet to prove that their "superpowers" wouldn't apply to Sidious. Get to that.

it did completely hide Palpatine's Force Sensitivity...
proven by Mace in Shattterpoint wondering over how good a Jedi Palpatine could have been if he was Force Sensitive

No. All beings - force sensitive or otherwise - possess a certain number of midi-chlorians, ands thus a certain degree of sensitivity to the force. All that Palpatine would have done was hidden his force sensitivity to the point where he didn't appear to possess enough of it to be able to wield the Force.

thus meaning he'd appear not Force Sensitive....

Now you're just being silly. As I just explained, he would still have appeared force sensitive, just not to the point where he'd be able to wield the force like a Jedi or Sith can.

um if you can't control the Force like a Jedi or Sith can you are not Force Sensitive
that's the whole point of the term

Good Lord Nikkolas; if you don't actually know what you're talking about, don't act as if you do.

All beings have a number of midi-chlorians: Fact. The midi-chlorians in turn grant them a certain level of force sensitivity: Fact. The reason that so many beings out there can't sense or control the Force is because they possess too low a count, and thus not high enough of a sensitivity. Whilst many can't sense or use the Force, there is still a level of sensitivity to be senses.

Know what you're talking about.