Yoda versus Dumbledore (the Force versus Hogwarts magic)

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You didn't answer them AT ALL... not even close to an answers. Try again.

1. Is it logical that Lucas would say Sids is trying to kill Mace, when in fact he was throwing the fight. You can't try and kill someone AND try and throw a fight. The trying to kill someone implies the exact OPPOSITE of throwing a fight. So why would Lucas say that, and yet never mention Sids throwing the fight?

2. Does it make logical sense that the book would go into great detail about what this person was thinking and that person was thinking.. even about NON major plot point.. Yet fail to mention IN ANY PLACE that Sids threw the fight? Does that make logical sense to you?

3. Does it make logical sense to you that Lucas would say Mace overpowered Sids, yet know full well that Sids actually threw the fight? Why not SAY Sids threw the fight, why would you say he was overpowered when deep down you know that isn't true?

Lastly, stop trying to use your terrible analogy. If Lucas says something that sounds really unreasonable and that hasn't happened in a book, tv show or movie.. no I wouldn't automatically believe it, but I would give it consideration as possible as it came from Lucas. That is ENTIRELY different than what we have here. Yes I will 100% believe what Lucas says about something THAT WE SEE happen. How can you not, IT HAPPENED. Trying to compare your example with that is just atrocious

Well I mean if you throw the fight you still give them a run for their money and that's the aura that a sithlord displays like according to the novelization dooku was told by palpatine that they would convert anakin so he was not to kill him but kill keno I yet in the movies we dooku actually trying to get him so that explains that and if you take into account that sidious went toe to toe with yoda a lightsaber duelist said to be greater than windu and windu wouldn't get nearly as much of an amp against yoda sidious was able to go toe to toe yet when he fought windu you say he was overpowered yet he stalemated someone better than him where is that logic that windu really beat sidious from that
2. Ok this is you you need something explicitly stated for it to be fact why can't you make inferences and conclusions for yourself instead of just what is explicitly stated and that's where inferences come in and the fact I have used the dooku commentary over and over and you have not attempted to refute it at all means you concede that point and as I have stated sidious was testing anakin during his deal with dooku as stated by George Lucas to see if anakin would actually be the one take dookus place see if he was the one he had been waiting for so yes it makes logical since you just need something explicitly stated because George Lucas and the person who wrote the book don't have time to just delve int all that since they have more drama hin e order 66 to focus and also if sidious was trying his best with the Lightning how come when he got out of the windu he got up with ease like it didn't case him and then in the book why did it say that the face of palpatine is gone and the face of sidious will have to do meaning that he wasn't that tires and he was already used to it and ready for it

3. Ok it actually does make sense because when he says overpowered both the book and movie point to this throughout the duel wether sidious is at full power or not windu could not defeat him in pure saber combat so why in the world would you think that windu is better than sidious in lightsaber dueling and when he says overpowered he means that sidious was disarmed not necessarily overpowered in a since he wa just demolished because you saw the movie and anywhere in that fight in the final sequence we did not see sidious at all extremely in a demolishing sense overpowered by windu he was disarmed so that's why he says it and I ties in with the fact that sidious threw the fight since if you throw it you pretend to lose and also if according to people like you If sidious didn't know that anakin was coming if if is the keyword if he didn't know he was able to keep windu busy u too he got their and in the novel which is according to recent research as stated by GL and his personal people is an accurate very accurate so accurate it's GCannon how was he able to hold his own for that time and windu say he could only stalemate but then the novel also says that windu sensed anakin was coming a mile away and sidious is a greater force weirder so he would also know anakin was coming a mile away so with that eve. If sidious didn't know he was coming he found out in time to adjust his style to throw the fight

4. ok you just proved my point you know for a fact that Ayala secura could never match dooku in any way but you said you would give it consideration after we have seen both there skills and power in the force and also who they are ranked by in terms of skill never have we seen Aayla be compared to windu or yoda so this proves you have no brain or sense to think for yourself so I've answered your now answer mine

None of this matters as Dumbles won't be able to cast any spells once Yoda tks his wand and speed blitzes him.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Well I mean if you throw the fight you still give them a run for their money and that's the aura that a sithlord displays like according to the novelization dooku was told by palpatine that they would convert anakin so he was not to kill him but kill keno I yet in the movies we dooku actually trying to get him so that explains that and if you take into account that sidious went toe to toe with yoda a lightsaber duelist said to be greater than windu and windu wouldn't get nearly as much of an amp against yoda sidious was able to go toe to toe yet when he fought windu you say he was overpowered yet he stalemated someone better than him where is that logic that windu really beat sidious from that
2. Ok this is you you need something explicitly stated for it to be fact why can't you make inferences and conclusions for yourself instead of just what is explicitly stated and that's where inferences come in and the fact I have used the dooku commentary over and over and you have not attempted to refute it at all means you concede that point and as I have stated sidious was testing anakin during his deal with dooku as stated by George Lucas to see if anakin would actually be the one take dookus place see if he was the one he had been waiting for so yes it makes logical since you just need something explicitly stated because George Lucas and the person who wrote the book don't have time to just delve int all that since they have more drama hin e order 66 to focus and also if sidious was trying his best with the Lightning how come when he got out of the windu he got up with ease like it didn't case him and then in the book why did it say that the face of palpatine is gone and the face of sidious will have to do meaning that he wasn't that tires and he was already used to it and ready for it

3. Ok it actually does make sense because when he says overpowered both the book and movie point to this throughout the duel wether sidious is at full power or not windu could not defeat him in pure saber combat so why in the world would you think that windu is better than sidious in lightsaber dueling and when he says overpowered he means that sidious was disarmed not necessarily overpowered in a since he wa just demolished because you saw the movie and anywhere in that fight in the final sequence we did not see sidious at all extremely in a demolishing sense overpowered by windu he was disarmed so that's why he says it and I ties in with the fact that sidious threw the fight since if you throw it you pretend to lose and also if according to people like you If sidious didn't know that anakin was coming if if is the keyword if he didn't know he was able to keep windu busy u too he got their and in the novel which is according to recent research as stated by GL and his personal people is an accurate very accurate so accurate it's GCannon how was he able to hold his own for that time and windu say he could only stalemate but then the novel also says that windu sensed anakin was coming a mile away and sidious is a greater force weirder so he would also know anakin was coming a mile away so with that eve. If sidious didn't know he was coming he found out in time to adjust his style to throw the fight

4. ok you just proved my point you know for a fact that Ayala secura could never match dooku in any way but you said you would give it consideration after we have seen both there skills and power in the force and also who they are ranked by in terms of skill never have we seen Aayla be compared to windu or yoda so this proves you have no brain or sense to think for yourself so I've answered your now answer mine

Concession ACCEPTED you don't have any proof at all. NONE... NO NARRATION and continue to make things up and use your own theories and try and pass them off as facts. Doesn't work that way. We debate on facts not theories or inferences

The reality is, and you have no explanation for this... the book goes into GREAT detail about many things WAY WAY less significant than a huge plot point of Sids throwing the fight. Your excuse that they didn't have time was a PISS POOR ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN IT AWAY. It's a outright terrible excuse AS THEY DID HAVE TIME.. They have PLENTY of time to put stuff in the book way less significant and more trival that Sids throwing the fight.. They have plenty of time to include that... thus you're totally and completely wrong that they didn't have time. They included tons of meh materials.. yet didn't include ANYTHING about throwing a fight. That says it all.. They DIDN'T feel he threw the fight PERIOD. You know what they felt... They felt like MACE OVERPOWERED HIM and SAID EXACTLY that.

You further have no explanation why Lucas would say Sids is trying to kill Mace if in fact he was throwing a fight. Those are COMPLETE OPPOSITES. Why would he misspeak like that? He wouldn't. He said exactly how he thought the fight went and NOTHING.. not a SINGLE QUOTE saying he threw the fight.

Game over your lose.

Originally posted by Silent Master
None of this matters as Dumbles won't be able to cast any spells once Yoda tks his wand and speed blitzes him.

This is a 100% true, but it doesn't mean I can't correct his nonsense theories

True

Originally posted by Silent Master
None of this matters as Dumbles won't be able to cast any spells once Yoda tks his wand and speed blitzes him.

Oh my ok yoda doesn't really use speed blitzing unless he has his lightsaber and in this duel he doesn't and he wouldn't take dumbledores wand outright it would be a minute before he would realize it and thTs all the time dumbledores needs

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Concession ACCEPTED you don't have any proof at all. NONE... NO NARRATION and continue to make things up and use your own theories and try and pass them off as facts. Doesn't work that way. We debate on facts not theories or inferences

The reality is, and you have no explanation for this... the book goes into GREAT detail about many things WAY WAY less significant than a huge plot point of Sids throwing the fight. Your excuse that they didn't have time was a PISS POOR ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN IT AWAY. It's a outright terrible excuse AS THEY DID HAVE TIME.. They have PLENTY of time to put stuff in the book way less significant and more trival that Sids throwing the fight.. They have plenty of time to include that... thus you're totally and completely wrong that they didn't have time. They included tons of meh materials.. yet didn't include ANYTHING about throwing a fight. That says it all.. They DIDN'T feel he threw the fight PERIOD. You know what they felt... They felt like MACE OVERPOWERED HIM and SAID EXACTLY that.

You further have no explanation why Lucas would say Sids is trying to kill Mace if in fact he was throwing a fight. Those are COMPLETE OPPOSITES. Why would he misspeak like that? He wouldn't. He said exactly how he thought the fight went and NOTHING.. not a SINGLE QUOTE saying he threw the fight.

Game over your lose.

1. Not really your place to decide
2. Younr concession is accepted as you dodge all of my points without countering refusing the evidence set forth
3. Inferences are basically based on facts go back to English class
4. Why would he delve into something that he has no time right after the duel happened the conversion of anakin and order 66 he has more things to do with that time then focus on what that battle meant
5 and you further prove my point as you refuse to answer mine like this one all throughout he duel they were even with mace with his gigantic amp and sidious his normal power showing not even an amped windu could defeat him and also it actually can be proven that sidious knew anakin would come and throw the fight but you refuse to read it sidious being able to stalemate him entirely in vaapad would have gone on forevever and windu even sensed that anakin was a mile away so why wouldn't sidious and the bending lightsaber Lightning thing he increased the power the second time around and all I put in number two of my previous post is actual quotes from Lucas inferences which do count and proof from both book and movie why do you not accept proof set before you are you that blind
6 and you have no way to counter what I said in post number two or to counter the Lucas commentary I put forth
7 the overpowere thing you take that way out of context you think windu crushed sidious when if you looked at the movie they were even only when sidious had to lower his guard/ speed to grip onto the ledge so he wouldn't fall off and with that made kicked him so this shows that the only way he overpowered him was by disarming him not a crushing defeat and you have no logic what so ever

So I accept your concession
And as in the words of windu "YOU HAVE LOST"

Now that we have all that out of the way answer my three questions if you be so kind and answer a fourth if you please why do you neglect proof put before you and tell me I didn't give any proof I dare you to

You know it's funny how think I have no proof when everything else points to the contrary I love how upyouve countered nothing I've said absolutely nothing one prime example is how is it that sidious was able to match yoda blow for blow
Yet according to you he truthfully lost to windu and yoda is a better duelist and even then according to the MOVIES the tow windu and sidious were even Stephen even with the vaapad amp only winning by usage of shatter point and a use of distraction so not a real lightsaber win now take this and then take how yoda is a lightsaber and windu would not have near an amp even if dooku and he doesn't let out a lot of dark energy so what you have is someone who can go toe to toe with someone who can beat windu so sidious and yoda either equal in blades or yoda being marginally superior but it hard to tell and I believe that under normal circumstances sidious would destroy windu and normal circumstances would be windu not as angry

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Oh my ok yoda doesn't really use speed blitzing unless he has his lightsaber and in this duel he doesn't and he wouldn't take dumbledores wand outright it would be a minute before he would realize it and thTs all the time dumbledores needs

Yoda does use TK and speed in the movies, thus per forum rules he is allowed to use it here, so how does Dumbles cast any spells when Yoda tks his wand and speed blitzes him?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yoda does use TK and speed in the movies, thus per forum rules he is allowed to use it here, so how does Dumbles cast any spells when Yoda tks his wand and speed blitzes him?

Yoda has been in two serious deals and both of which his first move is to stand there secondly when does he use speed blitz for physical attack without his lightsaber in the movie I've watched attack of the clones and revenge of the sith several times he never encorporates punches and kicks into his sequence he does flips but only when he has his lightsaber and seeing how he doesn't your only real argument is that what does Dumbledore do when yoda takes his wand well

1. He has wandless Magic he can use for one

2. Yoda would not take his wand as a first move since Dumbledore has no force potential he would not know how he is going to attack and the last time yoda took someone's lightsabers he gave them back which was ventress in TCW and Dumbledore can use telekinetic spells without the need of a wand accio and depulso which are telekenetic spells

3. Dumbledore has no USUAL MODE OF ATTACK he has only been in one serious magical deal and in that one he was on the defensive for his first attack as he was trying to protect Harry so really if anything when on offense his usual MO is to open with a gigantic spell thus yoda losing or when yoda stands still and Dumbledore uses a killing curse which he has used or any other transfiguration spell or curse which forum rules allow yea would take it and be either dead incapacitated or turned into a random animal or object

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This is a 100% true, but it doesn't mean I can't correct his nonsense theories

If you would I want you to answer one question just one and I want a yes or no answer for this no oh my god I've answered this or a long down out response or even an emoji etc.

DO YOU HONESTLY AND WITHOUT BIASED TAKIMG THE GEORGE LUCAS COMMENTARY OUT OF THE QUESTION AND ONLY TAKING THE SIDIOUS VS WINDU DEUL FROM THE BOOK AND MOVIE AND USING YOUR OWN LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE DO YOU ACTUALLY BELEIVE BECAUSE ALL YOUVE DONE IS SAY LUCAS SAID THIS AND LUCAS SAID THAT YOU HAVE NOT SAID WHAT YOU THINK DO YOU BELEIVE THAT SIDIOUS ACTUALLY LOST THAT I MEAN ACTUALLY LOST AND NOT A STAGE OR DO YOU BELEIVE HE THREW IT AND ASLO DO YOU BELEIVE WINDU IS A GREATER LIGHTSABER DEULIST

THIS IS A YES OR NO TWO PART QUESTION

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
Well Yoda vs. Dumbledor I can't really say.

But as far as the force is concerned, the force has brought people to life, killed people, made me people invisible, and destroyed entire planets.

It has also made entire planets invisible, and has ripped holes in the space time continuum itself and has been used to manipulate black holes.

And you don't need a wand or some incantation to do it any of it 😉

Yea but this is yoda vs Dumbledore yoda can't do those things

We usually give opponents general knowledge of each other for these fights, that means Yoda would know that Dumbledore can use magic and that his wand is used for most spells, thus Yoda tk'ing the wand away is an obvious tactic to use...especially since he doesn't have his lightsaber.

Originally posted by Silent Master
We usually give opponents general knowledge of each other for these fights, that means Yoda would know that Dumbledore can use magic and that his wand is used for most spells, thus Yoda tk'ing the wand away is an obvious tactic to use...especially since he doesn't have his lightsaber.

Hold hold hold onnnnnn no where in the description does it say they have previous experience that maybe the usual thing but not in this battle sir this is what the maker said he said no lightsaber and only force vs magic so that means Dumbledore only has his wand neither has experience against the other and if that were the case Dumbledore would ASLO have tactics to use and bring out his advancement with wandles Magic so don't try to pull that card on this

If you want to remove general knowledge then Yoda has no way of knowing just how powerful sed wand or Dumbledore is and thus since he has no lightsaber to defend himself the logical choice would still be to remove the weapon and speed blitz him.

No because he doesn't know he has never seen something like that he would understand it and thus wouldn't concern himself sense he believes that the force is everything he would not outright take his wand and once the battle starts Dumbledore will be steadily shooting spells so he will have no time to take his wand

Yoda isn't stupid and disarming an opponent is a rather basic tactic, so Yoda will tk Dumbles wand.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
If you would I want you to answer one question just one and I want a yes or no answer for this no oh my god I've answered this or a long down out response or even an emoji etc.

DO YOU HONESTLY AND WITHOUT BIASED TAKIMG THE GEORGE LUCAS COMMENTARY OUT OF THE QUESTION AND ONLY TAKING THE SIDIOUS VS WINDU DEUL FROM THE BOOK AND MOVIE AND USING YOUR OWN LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE DO YOU ACTUALLY BELEIVE BECAUSE ALL YOUVE DONE IS SAY LUCAS SAID THIS AND LUCAS SAID THAT YOU HAVE NOT SAID WHAT YOU THINK DO YOU BELEIVE THAT SIDIOUS ACTUALLY LOST THAT I MEAN ACTUALLY LOST AND NOT A STAGE OR DO YOU BELEIVE HE THREW IT AND ASLO DO YOU BELEIVE WINDU IS A GREATER LIGHTSABER DEULIST

THIS IS A YES OR NO TWO PART QUESTION

Look man, you're actually trying to criticize me for listening to the creator, producer and writer of the movie. Don't you just look at sentence and go, yeah, maybe I'm being a little silly. His opinion is EXPONENTIALLY more important and valuable than yours correct? More valuable than any sids apologist correct? The reality is, he never not once said Sids threw the fight. In fact, he's been quoted and saying the EXACT opposite in many ways and even having then writer of the book say the same thing. Simple. Your opinion on inferences and this and that are utterly meaningless compared to that.

Yes, I believe Windu won the fight. That is what we saw, so why would I say something different? He won, he disarmed sids of his weapon and had him at his mercy. That doesn't mean he would win every time, because he wouldn't, but that time he did. It's really that simple. Get over it

Originally posted by Silent Master
Yoda isn't stupid and disarming an opponent is a rather basic tactic, so Yoda will tk Dumbles wand.

Actually he has never met an opponent like dumbledore so he would not take his wand outright and disarming for yoda comes with a lightsaber not the force the only time he did this was against ventress and then he gave them back and once the first shot is fired dumbledore would most likely win since it could be a killing curse or cruciatus curse or any other transfiguration spell

I get that you don't want Yoda to tk the wand or speed blitz, but the fact is that doing so is within his power, thus Yoda tk's the wand and speed-blitzes Dumbles.