Yoda versus Dumbledore (the Force versus Hogwarts magic)

Originally posted by Silent Master
Of course he does. since your logic is to ignore what Yoda is capable of.

For those that look at what both sides are capable of, IE people that are not biased towards one side like you are...Yoda wins.

What are you the purest in the land you clearly are biased toward yoda and all of this is a matter of opinion and mine stays that dumbledore would win but through a good fight yoda is truly a master of the force and has earned his title as grandmaster but due to dumbledores versatility I give him the edge

Acknowledging that Yoda has feats of mutli-ton level tk and speed and thus can use them in a fight isn't an example of bias, it's an example of not ignoring Yoda's feats(like you're trying to do).

Fact is that based on feats, Yoda wins.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Your double standards are astounding.

You want to claim that Dumbledore will be throwing around killing curses etc. which is totally out of character for him, yet expect Yoda to fight in character, and not draw on darker powers. You can't have it both ways.

I didn't say he will be throwing killing curses I just stated that he has the ability to and actually has used them before and I said that yoda can use every tool in his arsenal did you not read my past post, I have acknowlegd that yoda can use his physical strikes and his powerful displays of telekenisis how am I using double standards you are trying to limit dumbledore to 4-5 spells the ones we only see in the movie so you are actually using double standards yourself as I have acknowledged my mistakes on yodas physical while you still continue to attempt to zap power away from dumbledore while I give yoda his props and skills and reconigtion

Dumbledore has impressive credentials, but so does Yoda. But you want to give Dumbledore a huge arsenal of spells, based on what you believe he should know, as opposed to his actual screen feats, yet when people mention allowing Yoda feats of force users well below him, you conveniently gloss it over. If Dumbledore gets to fight out of character and have nearly every known spell at his disposal, Yoda should be allowed to fight out of character, and be allowed any onscreen force abilities, considering they were all performed by beings who were, at best, virtually his equal, and generally, well below him. That's the only way this would be a fair fight. Otherwise you are just gimping Yoda in order to give Dumbledore the win.

Finally you admit that dumbledore does have the variety of hundreds of thousands of spells finally you admit it. As I said before Yodas track record, well what we know about him since Veorge Lucas wants to keep his history a secret, the track record we know it's speaks for himself so I'm not trying to take yodas abilities away or his movement he has worked hard for his status and I would never try to restrict it. And I don't BELEIVE he has those spells I know dumbledore has those spells as his track record also speaks for itself, however like yoda, he can't use pure dark side magic like the spells voldemort uses on Harry that are dark black but he can use the unforgivable curses as he has before and anyone can use it and like yoda with his reputation a number of abilities come with. As for " glossing over abilities of people below him" just because someone below another can do it doesn't mean he can. For instance plo koon can use electric judgement yet this doesn't mean that yoda can necessarily do it. Also yoda has never displayed force lightning or any other dark side ability so according to you yoda can't use those abilities since they were never seen on screen according to you.

Also, so you are literally saying Yoda is [B]incapable of using the dark side of the force? So if a Sith found him when he was young, instead of a Jedi, he would have been utterly useless? That's what you are saying in your post. You are flat out saying that the only Jedi who are capable of using dark side powers are Plo Koon, Mace and Anakin, and that no other Jedi would even be capable of drawing on the dark side, even if they give in to their anger, fear etc. That's what your post is saying, and it is utterly ridiculous.

Yes I'm saying that he is incable of using the dark side of the force since he has never been shown onscreen doing it according to you so he can't and also of a sith found him then he would be trained in the dark side then he is cable but he is the avatar of light and the lavatar of light can't use dark side abilities because he doesn't know how. He can learn how to use them but he doesn't know as I said before only Mace, anakin, and plo can use similar dark side abilities with koon being the similar as his lightning is not true lightning but a version of it. You just misunderstood what i said. You believe I'm saying that even if sith found him he would be hopeless. I'm actually saying that as the avatar of light, as of the yoda we see in the movies and the books, he is incable of using dark side abilities. If he were trained to use them then yea, but he wasn't so that's why I BELEIVE he is incapable.

I've wasted enough time on this thread though. Anyone who looks at this objectively knows that Yoda wins, and Stealth and Silent are already doing a good job of making your arguments look silly, so I'm out. Trying to decipher your unpunctuated rambling is not worth the effort. [/B]

Yes I'm glad your leaving you are not worth my time and this is a thread of opinion so there are actually a lot of dumbledore supporters if you reread the post so good bye I hope I never encounter you again and yes they are doing a good job at debating. I wouldn't say my arguments are silly but you know one guys opinion but still this is an opinion thread so Cya. Also this is an informal setting not meant to be worried with punctuation or anything like that.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Acknowledging that Yoda has feats of mutli-ton level tk and speed and thus can use them in a fight isn't an example of bias, it's an example of not ignoring Yoda's feats(like you're trying to do).

Fact is that based on feats, Yoda wins.

Yes I have acknowledged yodas feat even making a list of feats that I can recall I know I missed some for sure but, I'm still sticking with a dumbledore win due to versatility and I still don't understand why this would be based on feats from the movies when the books is the main source for Harry Potter but still even if we just use movie dumbledore he still has a good amount of spells that he would use to win

1. Firestorm
2. Water spell
3. Protego
4. Expelliarmius
5. Can really manipulate fire in any way shape or form
6. Turn objects into sand
7. Apparition

He could win with those but he still has all his spells which make him even more versatile and dangerous. So you say based on feats? Vs battles are based on more than just feats. Considering the fact that the story Harry Potter is centered around Harry it wouldn't show dumbledore as much. However the prequels as centerd as they are around anakin it gives more room for different characters to get into play and also since you say no low showing does that mean that dumbledores reflexes are faster? I'm not saying superhuman fast but fast to like he can do what voldemort did in part 2 against Harry. And also with low ball showing does that also mean he can use unforgivable curses? Since he can but chooses not to? But still he still has plenty of other spells to use. You BELEIVE that right?

It's nice that you can list spells, but sed list doesn't mean much once Yoda tk's his wand.

I haven't said anything about low-showings, so you might want to direct those comments to someone else.

Originally posted by Silent Master
It's nice that you can list spells, but sed list doesn't mean much once Yoda tk's his wand.

I haven't said anything about low-showings, so you might want to direct those comments to someone else.

My rebuttal

Epoximise
Gripping Charm

Which he can't cast without the wand and seeing as Yoda is fast enough to tk it before Dumbles can cast the spells.

IOW, Yoda wins via tk and speedblitz.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Which he can't cast without the wand and seeing as Yoda is fast enough to tk it before Dumbles can cast the spells.

IOW, Yoda wins via tk and speedblitz.

Why wouldn't or couldn't dumbledore use it before the battle starts

For the same reason Yoda can't lift a multi-ton rock and hold it 2 inches over Dumbledore's head before the fight starts, IE because doing so would require prep-time and the thread starter didn't give either side prep.

Originally posted by Silent Master
For the same reason Yoda can't lift a multi-ton rock and hold it 2 inches over Dumbledore's head before the fight starts, IE because doing so would require prep-time and the thread starter didn't give either side prep.

Well he could still use it before anything happens it takes less than a second as seen by most spells of that magnitude so I going to stick with he keeps his wand due to those spells. It would be his first spell in order to keep his wand. Since neither has ever faced an opponent yoda wouldn't know what a wand is used for and dumbledore wouldn't know at all the destructive power yoda wields so both would enter this battle with caution. With this I beleive dumbledore would use those spells to keep his wand as to be prepared for anything.

Also I have a question? If the thread starter doesn't describe the location what do you do about that because in both universes the location can make a major difference.

Yoda is faster than Dumbledore, that means the wand will be tk'd before he can fire off any spells.

Thus, Yoda wins via tk and speedblitz.

If two opponents have never met before they don't know what each other has so why would yoda bother taking his wand as a first resort since to him it's basically it's as worthless as his cane. So with that dumbledore would keep his wand and battle would commence

So you're back to complaining that I'm having Yoda act OOC, while at the same time your argument requires Dumbledore to act OOC.

Yoda wins due to tk, speed and your double standards.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you're back to complaining that I'm having Yoda act OOC, while at the same time your argument requires Dumbledore to act OOC.

Yoda wins due to tk, speed and your double standards.

I'm not complaining. How am I complaining?

I'm simply saying that since the two have no prep time and have never encountered an opponent like the other yoda wouldn't know what the wand does and would only be used to using powers with your hands so he would assume it's just some type of stick that is as worthless as his cane in terms of fighting.

Also coming into the fight dumbledore would have his wand in hand and wouldn't even need to breath a word it would take two seconds to implement both spells before yoda does anything

So you are saying its OOC for dumbledore to use any spell at his disposal.

I'm not doubting anything yoda has so how is this a double standard.

Just like Dumbledore wouldn't know that Yoda has tk and yet you want him to use spells to prevent disarming and you also have him using the unforgivables and you've mentioned multiple other spells that Dumbledore has never been shown to use in a fight. IOW, your entire argument is based on Dumbles fighting OOC. Thus you have zero right to complain or accuse others of having Yoda act OOC.

Bottom line, Yoda wins via tk and speed.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Just like Dumbledore wouldn't know that Yoda has tk and yet you want him to use spells to prevent disarming and you also have him using the unforgivables and you've mentioned multiple other spells that Dumbledore has never been shown to use in a fight. IOW, your entire argument is based on Dumbles fighting OOC. Thus you have zero right to complain or accuse others of having Yoda act OOC.

Bottom line, Yoda wins via tk and speed.

Exactly so dumbledore is unprepared just like yoda is unprepared I'm glad we both understand that but you only want dumbledore to use spells that we see him exclusively use in the movies while you want to project yodas speed and strenght and power in the force now this is a double standard

Bottom line, Dumbledore turns yoda into a duck or a bird or shrinks him to an even smaller size so he can't do anything and I know for sure 2 of those spells are seen in the movies the only one not seen is the duck one. I'm not taking dumbledore out of character now I can take him out of character like giving him the ability to grow 50ft tall and giving him super strenght without a potion now that's taking him out of character. Me saying he has the ability to use uunforgivable curses and all of his transfiguration spells and deuling applicable spells tell me how that is out of character.

Just because we don't see dumbledore use those spells explicitly on the screen doesn't mean he can't

I'm having Yoda fight in character while you want Dumbledore to fight out of character and the icing on the cake is that you're complaining that having Yoda use abilities that he's been shown to use is OOC while you having Dumbles use spells that he's never been shown to use is in character.

Bottom line is once again, Yoda wins due to actually having feats of using tk and speed in battle while Dumbledore has zero combat feats of using the spells you're claiming he'll use in this fight.