Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Indy didnt look slow to me, he pwned Russians left and right. BTW Indy was older in KOTCS than Mac was in LFODH.
Then the russians were shit then, werent they.
The sort of people that McClane, Riggs...hell EVEN MURTAUGH kill on their way to collect the newspaper in the morning whilst still half asleep with all that nasty crust in their eyes.
Crust in their eyes, man......!!!!!!!!!!! 😕
McCrust in theiiiiiiiiiiiir eyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessss..!!!
Browsing this topic it seems some people only want to allow Indy's feat from "Crystal Skull". The things is even if we do it that way then Indy can tank anything and everything McClane can throw at him in a fist fight. Why well this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnGuXXGgVq0
Their is absalutly nothing that McClane can hit Indy with that even approaches the desructive force/power/energy(what ever you want to call it) of being thrown up in the air by an atomic blast, and hurled at speeds faster then a speeding car while tumbling around inside a metal fridge, then dropping from a multiple story hight. Such as Indy was in this scene. In real life a person(hel any person in the fridge would have been turned into soup by that ride). In other words just using "Crystal Skull" McClane could hit Indy until his hands bled and still do no significant damage. This alone pretty much sums it up, but if we indulge the thread opener in his orginal intention to allow Indy all his features then We have multple examples of Indy's toughness. From sumberging with a sub in "Raiders" to taking a tank wrecking dive off a cliff in "Crusade"(and yes folks he must have ridden the tank over the edge, as the edge itself is visible and Indy is not on it), or the more mundane stuff like getting clubed, shot, burned, dragged behind vehicles, etc etc. As for fighting skill while both of them are generaly scrapers. Indy has showed knowledge of at the very least wrestling and boxing, as well as employing elbows, knees, feet, non-wrestling holds and throws. The truth is that Indy has actualy, to the best of my recolection shown far more versitility in combat then McClane. He also hits like a civ, we have seen him knock out two men with a single punch. His(Indy's) reaction time is also damn near in human. In "Raiders" a man is standing behind him, gun leveled on Indy pulling the trigger. Indy is able, grab his whip, uncoil it and hit the gun out of the mans hand before he shoots. Even if the assailent in question is slowish this is damn impressive for Indy. Some thing like 30 years later and a few years shy of 60, surrounded by armed Russian spec ops and after having spent at least hours crammed into the trunk of a car. Indy pulls of a similiar feat in "Crystal Skull". We also have the shoot out in Marions bar in "Raiders" where Jones switches back and forth between guns(.45 and .38) with out slowing his semi-automatic fire. We also have "Crusade" where Dr. Jones comfronted by Nazi soldiers(after having crashed threw a window and getting a vase to the head) was able to grab the SMG from one of them and shoot them both before they could respond. If the McClane supporter want to bring in luck, lets be honest they both have that in spades. The same thing can be said for sitational awarness and creative tactics. Both have taken out aircraft with cars and Indy fubaring a tank with a rock. Puts him equal if not better then McClane.
So to wrap up
Durability/toughness-Favors Indy. End of story. Nothing McClane has done even remotly compares to the fridge, cliff, or sub.
Strength-Its hard to call. Though Indy has pulled himself up by his toes while dangling upside down and he can definatly focus his strength better demonstrated by his single hit double KOs.
Agility/dexterity-Lets being honest Indy swings from whips runs across and threw booby trap rigged sites on a daily basis. He has this catagory in the bag.
Fighting ability-Again a a close one, but even look at the videos posted so far Indy has used. Knees, holds, throws etc. Even ignoring that he is demonstrable McClane equal if not better in just the bruiser catagory. Its also interesting to look at their records against martial artists. Every time McClane fights one he is in for the fight of his life-Asian girl in 4, general guy on the wing of the plane in 2, big German guy in 1. Yes he comes out on top(mostly due to luck and enviromentl factors), but he gets the snot kicked out of him in the process. Indy on the other hand fights off a crowd of them in the Club Obi-Wan in "Temple" and again against trained Thuggee fighters latter in the picture. Any body wanting to bring up the obviously trained boxer in the big German mechanic. Should remember that had she pressed her advantage at the onset of their fight the "ninja chick" in Die Hard 4 would likely have ended McClane. Remember he went down in moments and it was only after she had turned her attention back to her mission that he was able to get the upper hand. In other words the catagory goes to Indy as well.
Enviromental awarness, creativity, and luck. Are all about equal.
So in the end Indy edges, all be it barely in some cases, John out in nearly all areas and in the remaining they are about equal.
If some one wants to bring weapons in to the discussion remember while both have taken gun shot wounds. McClane has never taken a gun shot from a gun that has shown latter in the picture to go threw half a dozen odd guys, nor has he shown the marksmenship to make such a shot.
So in the end however you set up the match. Indy takes it.
Originally posted by Nightstick
Browsing this topic it seems some people only want to allow Indy's feat from "Crystal Skull". The things is even if we do it that way then Indy can tank anything and everything McClane can throw at him in a fist fight. Why well this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnGuXXGgVq0
Their is absalutly nothing that McClane can hit Indy with that even approaches the desructive force/power/energy(what ever you want to call it) of being thrown up in the air by an atomic blast, and hurled at speeds faster then a speeding car while tumbling around inside a metal fridge, then dropping from a multiple story hight. Such as Indy was in this scene. In real life a person(hel any person in the fridge would have been turned into soup by that ride). In other words just using "Crystal Skull" McClane could hit Indy until his hands bled and still do no significant damage. This alone pretty much sums it up, but if we indulge the thread opener in his orginal intention to allow Indy all his features then We have multple examples of Indy's toughness. From sumberging with a sub in "Raiders" to taking a tank wrecking dive off a cliff in "Crusade"(and yes folks he must have ridden the tank over the edge, as the edge itself is visible and Indy is not on it), or the more mundane stuff like getting clubed, shot, burned, dragged behind vehicles, etc etc. As for fighting skill while both of them are generaly scrapers. Indy has showed knowledge of at the very least wrestling and boxing, as well as employing elbows, knees, feet, non-wrestling holds and throws. The truth is that Indy has actualy, to the best of my recolection shown far more versitility in combat then McClane. He also hits like a civ, we have seen him knock out two men with a single punch. His(Indy's) reaction time is also damn near in human. In "Raiders" a man is standing behind him, gun leveled on Indy pulling the trigger. Indy is able, grab his whip, uncoil it and hit the gun out of the mans hand before he shoots. Even if the assailent in question is slowish this is damn impressive for Indy. Some thing like 30 years later and a few years shy of 60, surrounded by armed Russian spec ops and after having spent at least hours crammed into the trunk of a car. Indy pulls of a similiar feat in "Crystal Skull". We also have the shoot out in Marions bar in "Raiders" where Jones switches back and forth between guns(.45 and .38) with out slowing his semi-automatic fire. We also have "Crusade" where Dr. Jones comfronted by Nazi soldiers(after having crashed threw a window and getting a vase to the head) was able to grab the SMG from one of them and shoot them both before they could respond. If the McClane supporter want to bring in luck, lets be honest they both have that in spades. The same thing can be said for sitational awarness and creative tactics. Both have taken out aircraft with cars and Indy fubaring a tank with a rock. Puts him equal if not better then McClane.
So to wrap up
Durability/toughness-Favors Indy. End of story. Nothing McClane has done even remotly compares to the fridge, cliff, or sub.
Strength-Its hard to call. Though Indy has pulled himself up by his toes while dangling upside down and he can definatly focus his strength better demonstrated by his single hit double KOs.
Agility/dexterity-Lets being honest Indy swings from whips runs across and threw booby trap rigged sites on a daily basis. He has this catagory in the bag.
Fighting ability-Again a a close one, but even look at the videos posted so far Indy has used. Knees, holds, throws etc. Even ignoring that he is demonstrable McClane equal if not better in just the bruiser catagory. Its also interesting to look at their records against martial artists. Every time McClane fights one he is in for the fight of his life-Asian girl in 4, general guy on the wing of the plane in 2, big German guy in 1. Yes he comes out on top(mostly due to luck and enviromentl factors), but he gets the snot kicked out of him in the process. Indy on the other hand fights off a crowd of them in the Club Obi-Wan in "Temple" and again against trained Thuggee fighters latter in the picture. Any body wanting to bring up the obviously trained boxer in the big German mechanic. Should remember that had she pressed her advantage at the onset of their fight the "ninja chick" in Die Hard 4 would likely have ended McClane. Remember he went down in moments and it was only after she had turned her attention back to her mission that he was able to get the upper hand. In other words the catagory goes to Indy as well.
Enviromental awarness, creativity, and luck. Are all about equal.
So in the end Indy edges, all be it barely in some cases, John out in nearly all areas and in the remaining they are about equal.
If some one wants to bring weapons in to the discussion remember while both have taken gun shot wounds. McClane has never taken a gun shot from a gun that has shown latter in the picture to go threw half a dozen odd guys, nor has he shown the marksmenship to make such a shot.
So in the end however you set up the match. Indy takes it.
Profiled, and QFT ✅
That long winded post proved nothing, except that Indy, like McClane, is far more durable than a normal man, which we all know, Captain Obvious. BTW, wasn't Indy sapped and knocked out in Last Crusade?
Fighting skill isn't based soley on moves, ie why throw a spinning back-kick, when a simple punch to the mouth will do? Also, Nazi grunts, zealot Indians and Russian infantrymen are not superior to highly trained mercenaries, special forces soldiers, ninja-girls and a dude that moves around like Spider-man, which is what McClane takes on with a smile.
Indy taking out an antique WW1 tank with a rock does not shadow McClane taking out an F-35 with a chunk of concrete. Biased much?
Originally posted by Robtard
That long winded post proved nothing, except that Indy, like McClane, is far more durable than a normal man, which we all know, Captain Obvious.Indy taking out an antique WW1 tank with a rock does not shadow McClane taking out an F-35 with a chunk of concrete. Biased much?
BTW, wasn't Indy sapped and knocked out in Last Crusade?
I'm sorry. bring to the table one McClane feat that even approaches, hell is even in the ball park of surviving the nuke, cliff, or submerging with a sub.
Lets see Indy took out a plane with a car and a tunnel, McClane took one out with a truck and bridge. All be it the one McClane took out was more advanced, but he had a more advanced vehicle himself. That aside the tank crew was far more competent then the F-35 pilot. Who sat their and waited for McClane to drop a mac truck and bridge on him. Though if we really go down this road Indy's dad takes them both he took out fighter planes with birds 🙂
By the way what scene in "Crusade" are you refering to.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
crylaugh Indy didnt take the Jet out, he was hanging on for dear life crylaugh I DO love it when you reach, though. crylaugh
McClane took out the jet, actually, to be exact, his actions and mastery of driving a freight-truck all the while avoiding missiles and turret fire set-up the scenario for the F-35 to be destroyed, which he then jumped on while it was spinning out of control, jumped off and then avoided the huge explosion.
Now that was an insane performed of ingenuity, resourcefulness, skill and inhuman durability. The tank scene does not compare in kind.
Originally posted by RobtardDifference is Indy grabbed the rock PLANNING to take out the tank. Mac was hanging on for dear life when a piece of debris just HAPPENED to fall out of the truck and strike the jet's thruster. Mac didnt plan it, he was just trying to keep from falling to his death. Anyone who thinks that Mac planned all that fom the time the Jet appeared is an idiot.
McClane took out the jet, actually, to be exact, his actions and mastery of driving a freight-truck all the while avoiding missiles and turret fire set-up the scenario for the F-35 to be destroyed, which he then jumped on while it was spinning out of control, jumped off and then avoided the huge explosion.Now that was an insane performed of ingenuity, resourcefulness, skill and inhuman durability. The tank scene does not compare in kind.
Originally posted by Nightstick
I'm sorry. bring to the table one McClane feat that even approaches, hell is even in the ball park of surviving the nuke, cliff, or submerging with a sub.Lets see Indy took out a plane with a car and a tunnel, McClane took one out with a truck and bridge. All be it the one McClane took out was more advanced, but he had a more advanced vehicle himself. That aside the tank crew was far more competent then the F-35 pilot. Who sat their and waited for McClane to drop a mac truck and bridge on him. Though if we really go down this road Indy's dad takes them both he took out fighter planes with birds 🙂
By the way what scene in "Crusade" are you refering to.
In LC, right before he and Connery were captured, iirc, he was knocked out. It's been a span since I've seen the film, though.
The truck might have been move advanced, but it wasn't all that much faster than the car Indy used, which is what they both specifically used the vehicles for, evasion to set up the demise of the planes. On the other-hand, that F-35 was leagues more advanced and lethal than that Messerschmidt, leagues. To state Indy had the better feat here, or to imply they're comparing, is downright laughable.
McClane using a fire hydrant to knock a merc off a helicopter is spades above Mr. Jones Sr. scaring the birds, spades, sir.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Difference is Indy grabbed the rock PLANNING to take out the tank. Mac was hanging on for dear life when a piece of debris just HAPPENED to fall out of the truck and strike the jet's thruster. Mac didnt plan it, he was just trying to keep from falling to his death. Anyone who thinks that Mac planned all that fom the time the Jet appeared is an idiot.
His actions caused it(see: causality), this is also a testament to his higher Luck Factor.
Had he bailed out of the truck when the Jet first attacked, it wouldn't have happened as it did, though you can bet your ass McClane would have used his well documented 'resourcefulness in a pinch' skills and destroyed the jet in another fashion, maybe with a paper-clip and some gum, who knows. Because we all know running out of bullets doesn't stop the carnage, destruction and mahem for Johnboy.
Originally posted by Robtard
Fighting skill isn't based soley on moves, ie why throw a spinning back-kick, when a simple punch to the mouth will do? Also, Nazi grunts, zealot Indians and Russian infantrymen are not superior to highly trained mercenaries, special forces soldiers, ninja-girls and a dude that moves around like Spider-man, which is what McClane takes on with a smile.
I'll agree fighting skill is not based soley on moves, but Indy is just as willing to just punch you in the face if need be. Infact it seems to be his prefrence, he can srap with the best of them. What it does mean is that Indy has more option then punching you in the face. Which is good if a punch option is not available for some reason. Not to mention most real fights end up on the ground so knowing how to grapple is damn usefull. In other words. Knowing a whole bunch of moves is not the be all end all of fighting skill, but it doesn't hurt. Ecspecial when combined with the fact that he is tough enough to take McClane in a straight punch up.
Lets see has Indy faced; spec ops/soldiers? Wait yes of both the German and Russian variety. Ninja Girls ? no, but he faced a crowd of martial artists in the Club Obi-Wan. Guys that move like Spider-man? Yep, in the grave yard in "Crystal Skull" and guess what Indy took them out with a smile as well. Though to be honest both Indy and McClane spent a lot of time grimacing in pain as well.
Originally posted by Robtard
His actions caused it(see: causality), this is also a testament to his higher Luck Factor.Had he bailed out of the truck when the Jet first attacked, it wouldn't have happened as it did, though you can bet your ass McClane would have used his well documented 'resourcefulness in a pinch' skills and destroyed the jet in another fashion, maybe with a paper-clip and some gum, who knows. Because we all know running out of bullets doesn't stop the carnage, destruction and mahem for Johnboy.
"Just cuz" crylaugh
Originally posted by Nightstick
I'll agree fighting skill is not based soley on moves, but Indy is just as willing to just punch you in the face if need be. Infact it seems to be his prefrence, he can srap with the best of them. What it does mean is that Indy has more option then punching you in the face. Which is good if a punch option is not available for some reason. Not to mention most real fights end up on the ground so knowing how to grapple is damn usefull. In other words. Knowing a whole bunch of moves is not the be all end all of fighting skill, but it doesn't hurt. Ecspecial when combined with the fact that he is tough enough to take McClane in a straight punch up.Lets see has Indy faced; spec ops/soldiers? Wait yes of both the German and Russian variety. Ninja Girls ? no, but he faced a crowd of martial artists in the Club Obi-Wan. Guys that move like Spider-man? Yep, in the grave yard in "Crystal Skull" and guess what Indy took them out with a smile as well. Though to be honest both Indy and McClane spent a lot of time grimacing in pain as well.
You really think McClane is solely a puncher, have you seen all four DH films? He's used grabbing, grappling, elbows, head-butts, tossing and has disarmed many an armed men, while he had nothing but sweat on his hands. Hell, he even shot a bullet through himself in order to kill someone behind him.
Those were garden-variety Nazi's and Cossacks, not special forces. Martial artist? Being Asian and kicking doesn't mean they're Bruce Lee ala Enter the Dragon. Hamster boy with his guns/gear would had obliterated those blown-gun dart midgets. Again, McClane clearly takes on a higher caliber of villains. This is just as fact you need to accept.
Originally posted by Robtard
In LC, right before he and Connery were captured, iirc, he was knocked out. It's been a span since I've seen the film, though.
Truth is i'd have to go back and re-watch it.
Originally posted by Robtard
The truck might have been move advanced, but it wasn't all that much faster than the car Indy used, which is what they both specifically used the vehicles for, evasion to set up the demise of the planes. On the other-hand, that F-35 was leagues more advanced and lethal than that Messerschmidt, leagues. To state Indy had the better feat here, or to imply they're comparing, is downright laughable.
Lets be honest the F-35 wasn't doing much more then hovering stationary and and firing away at McClane. So they were both in motor vehicles evading slow moving air craft unloading mostly machine guns at them. Again I have to speak to the incompetence of the F-35 pilot. The same came not be said at least to the same extent for the pilots and tank crew Indy faced. Of course it also importent to note that McClane vehicle was tougher then Indy's. Frankly trying to down play either of these mens ability to use their enviroment to their advantage is just silly. This is definatly one area where they are close
Originally posted by Robtard
McClane using a fire hydrant to knock a merc off a helicopter is spades above Mr. Jones Sr. scaring the birds, spades, sir.
Interestingly enough while I don't fully agree with you i'd say the fire hydrent scene speaks better to McClane's ability then the truck vs jet scene. As his intent in the hydrent scene is far more obvious then in the jet scene where it may have been luck.
Originally posted by Nightstick
Truth is i'd have to go back and re-watch it.Lets be honest the F-35 wasn't doing much more then hovering stationary and and firing away at McClane. So they were both in motor vehicles evading slow moving air craft unloading mostly machine guns at them. Again I have to speak to the incompetence of the F-35 pilot. The same came not be said at least to the same extent for the pilots and tank crew Indy faced. Of course it also importent to note that McClane vehicle was tougher then Indy's. Frankly trying to down play either of these mens ability to use their enviroment to their advantage is just silly. This is definatly one area where they are close
Interestingly enough while I don't fully agree with you i'd say the fire hydrent scene speaks better to McClane's ability then the truck vs jet scene. As his intent in the hydrent scene is far more obvious then in the jet scene where it may have been luck.
If I get a chance, I will, as it's probably the best or 2nd best of the IJ series and a great movie overall.
John's truck was far tougher than Indy's car, agreed. But the lethality of the F-35's guns and missiles is well beyond scale of the Messerschmidt. The German plane poked holes in the car with it's gun, the F-35 blew up freeways and it's 25mm cannon litterally turned he truck into confetti. I agree they're both bad-asses, but what McClane takes on is far more lethal, generally.
Yeah, you have a solid point there.
Originally posted by Robtard
You really think McClane is solely a puncher, have you seen all four DH films? He's used grabbing, grappling, elbows, head-butts, tossing and has disarmed many an armed men, while he had nothing but sweat on his hands. Hell, he even shot a bullet through himself in order to kill someone behind him.
]
I have to say. Its intetersting how a couple of posts ago. You more or less tried to ignore the usefullness of versitility in fighting and now that, that didn't fly your all over it claiming that McClane is king of it. Make up your mind.
Yes though. McClane has shown himself to be more then a pucher. Truth is they both have. Never said they didn't. Again this is a catagory that I think is close. I think Indy takes it, but even if we afford it to McClane he still has to get past Indy's better reaction time, dexterity and toughness( you still haven't brought any comparable durability feats to the table).
Originally posted by Robtard
[B]
Those were garden-variety Nazi's and Cossacks, not special forces. Martial artist? Being Asian and kicking doesn't mean they're Bruce Lee ala Enter the Dragon. Hamster boy with his guns/gear would had obliterated those blown-gun dart midgets. Again, McClane clearly takes on a higher caliber of villains. This is just as fact you need to accept.
Some of them were some of them weren't. You really think Russia sent a bunch of random grunts on high priorty secret mission to the American heartland? Yeah I thought not. As for Hamster boy vs graveyard defenders. Not only did Hamster boy not doing anything considerable more agile then they did, but their were two of them and they made far better use of stealth. Not to mention Indy took them out far easier then McClane took out Hamster Boy. As for your "Being Asian and Kicking" doesn't make you a martial artist thing. This logic could be just as easly applied to the "ninja chick" whose "Martial arts" didn't look all that great from a real perspective either.
Originally posted by Nightstick
I have to say. Its intetersting how a couple of posts ago. You more or less tried to ignore the usefullness of versitility in fighting and now that, that didn't fly your all over it claiming that McClane is king of it. Make up your mind.Yes though. McClane has shown himself to be more then a pucher. Truth is they both have. Never said they didn't. Again this is a catagory that I think is close. I think Indy takes it, but even if we afford it to McClane he still has to get past Indy's better reaction time, dexterity and toughness( you still haven't brought any comparable durability feats to the table).
Some of them were some of them weren't. You really think Russia sent a bunch of random grunts on high priorty secret mission to the American heartland? Yeah I thought not. As for Hamster boy vs graveyard defenders. Not only did Hamster boy not doing anything considerable more agile then they did, but their were two of them and they made far better use of stealth. Not to mention Indy took them out far easier then McClane took out Hamster Boy. As for your "Being Asian and Kicking" doesn't make you a martial artist thing. This logic could be just as easly applied to the "ninja chick" whose "Martial arts" didn't look all that great from a real perspective either.
Hahaha, no, nice attempt to mis-represent me, though. I wasn't ignoring the usefulness of versatility, merely stating that simplicity can be just as effective, because McClane usually fights in this fashion and it's effective, but by no means saying he isn't capable of doing more, as we've seen in the films.
Durability? McClane's never been knocked out (which I believe Indy has) and he doesn't complain from the punishment as Indy does, having women kiss him on the 'boo-boos' etc, McClane shrugs it off and keeps on going, bare feet through broken glass and all. Did you purposely skip the part where I said MClane shot through himself to kill the [main] villain behind him? This of course was after he was already shot. Yeah, that's durability and epic damage-sponge.
Then there's the two scenes where Indy, despite his previous durability feats, gets consistently knocked on his ass my an aged mechanic and a fat Indian zealot.
It doesn't matter what you think they are, it's what they did on screen and those Nazis and Soviets didn't do anything special beyond garden variety soldiering, for the most part.
Hamster-boy was far more agile and faster than those midgets, he jumped from building to building, jumped to evade being run over by a speeding McClane driven cruiser, jumped out of a exploding helicopter and was nothing more than a squirrel on crack in the cooler-room scene. Those midgets have nothing on him, he was also armed with machine guns/guns and body armor. Remember when McClane states, "they didn't send girl-scouts to take out the kid, they sent a team with with full tactical gear", which McClane killed all up Hamster-boy. Again, more proof that McClane's opponents are of higher caliber, consistantly
Ninja-girl's moves were far more impressive than those Asian's in the Obi-Wan. Not even a comparison. They were comical, she was lethal.
Originally posted by Nightstick
Browsing this topic it seems some people only want to allow Indy's feat from "Crystal Skull". The things is even if we do it that way then Indy can tank anything and everything McClane can throw at him in a fist fight. Why well this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnGuXXGgVq0
Their is absalutly nothing that McClane can hit Indy with that even approaches the desructive force/power/energy(what ever you want to call it) of being thrown up in the air by an atomic blast, and hurled at speeds faster then a speeding car while tumbling around inside a metal fridge, then dropping from a multiple story hight. Such as Indy was in this scene. In real life a person(hel any person in the fridge would have been turned into soup by that ride). In other words just using "Crystal Skull" McClane could hit Indy until his hands bled and still do no significant damage. This alone pretty much sums it up, but if we indulge the thread opener in his orginal intention to allow Indy all his features then We have multple examples of Indy's toughness. From sumberging with a sub in "Raiders" to taking a tank wrecking dive off a cliff in "Crusade"(and yes folks he must have ridden the tank over the edge, as the edge itself is visible and Indy is not on it), or the more mundane stuff like getting clubed, shot, burned, dragged behind vehicles, etc etc. As for fighting skill while both of them are generaly scrapers. Indy has showed knowledge of at the very least wrestling and boxing, as well as employing elbows, knees, feet, non-wrestling holds and throws. The truth is that Indy has actualy, to the best of my recolection shown far more versitility in combat then McClane. He also hits like a civ, we have seen him knock out two men with a single punch. His(Indy's) reaction time is also damn near in human. In "Raiders" a man is standing behind him, gun leveled on Indy pulling the trigger. Indy is able, grab his whip, uncoil it and hit the gun out of the mans hand before he shoots. Even if the assailent in question is slowish this is damn impressive for Indy. Some thing like 30 years later and a few years shy of 60, surrounded by armed Russian spec ops and after having spent at least hours crammed into the trunk of a car. Indy pulls of a similiar feat in "Crystal Skull". We also have the shoot out in Marions bar in "Raiders" where Jones switches back and forth between guns(.45 and .38) with out slowing his semi-automatic fire. We also have "Crusade" where Dr. Jones comfronted by Nazi soldiers(after having crashed threw a window and getting a vase to the head) was able to grab the SMG from one of them and shoot them both before they could respond. If the McClane supporter want to bring in luck, lets be honest they both have that in spades. The same thing can be said for sitational awarness and creative tactics. Both have taken out aircraft with cars and Indy fubaring a tank with a rock. Puts him equal if not better then McClane.
So to wrap up
Durability/toughness-Favors Indy. End of story. Nothing McClane has done even remotly compares to the fridge, cliff, or sub.
Strength-Its hard to call. Though Indy has pulled himself up by his toes while dangling upside down and he can definatly focus his strength better demonstrated by his single hit double KOs.
Agility/dexterity-Lets being honest Indy swings from whips runs across and threw booby trap rigged sites on a daily basis. He has this catagory in the bag.
Fighting ability-Again a a close one, but even look at the videos posted so far Indy has used. Knees, holds, throws etc. Even ignoring that he is demonstrable McClane equal if not better in just the bruiser catagory. Its also interesting to look at their records against martial artists. Every time McClane fights one he is in for the fight of his life-Asian girl in 4, general guy on the wing of the plane in 2, big German guy in 1. Yes he comes out on top(mostly due to luck and enviromentl factors), but he gets the snot kicked out of him in the process. Indy on the other hand fights off a crowd of them in the Club Obi-Wan in "Temple" and again against trained Thuggee fighters latter in the picture. Any body wanting to bring up the obviously trained boxer in the big German mechanic. Should remember that had she pressed her advantage at the onset of their fight the "ninja chick" in Die Hard 4 would likely have ended McClane. Remember he went down in moments and it was only after she had turned her attention back to her mission that he was able to get the upper hand. In other words the catagory goes to Indy as well.
Enviromental awarness, creativity, and luck. Are all about equal.
So in the end Indy edges, all be it barely in some cases, John out in nearly all areas and in the remaining they are about equal.
If some one wants to bring weapons in to the discussion remember while both have taken gun shot wounds. McClane has never taken a gun shot from a gun that has shown latter in the picture to go threw half a dozen odd guys, nor has he shown the marksmenship to make such a shot.
So in the end however you set up the match. Indy takes it.
A nice but inherantly flawed post. The opening and closing lines are its weakness as
noone has been talking exclusively about kotcs feat only and Insy has a way more suspect chin..
RJ wanted them recognised, which is fair enough.
Along with that comes the frailty.
I think you are overrating Indy's Hearns-like chin.
Fact is Indy bangs fairly hard, doing well against mediocre opposition, but faced with a tough opponent, -Pat Roach usually- he gets his ass destroyed because he cant take shots as well as McClane.
McClanes age, chin, experience at fighting more advanced opponents than Indy got a chance to fight, jamminess and creativity on the battlefield, his various forms of training that wasnt about in Jone's day are all serious advantages for McClane.