Frank kills the DCU (for real)

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Thunderbolt gives him an early warning system.

Well he lives in the 5th dimension now anyway. Thats not DC earth.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

When Spectre Couldn't kill him,he tried to incapacitate him.PS was able to reverse the spell,as well as putting together one od Dc's most Pis-filled OHK teams atm.I mean Enchantress alone has a spell where on touch is lethal,and Ragman can absorb punisher into his suit from a distance,and the only person who this is failed on before was the former wrath of god,so no,Punisher can't block,and no,he can't kill Ragman,who literally would have to die a thousand times over just to be slowed down.

And then There's Nightshade who can BFR the entire Army if she sets her mind to it.

She's nothing to phantom Stranger or Jakeem,or even Dr fate...none of whom can be sneak attacked.

That could be a stalemate then. Pun cant be detected in his base of operation and they cant kill what they cant find. I dunno maybe Batmans has spells that could help.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Show me any evidence of Batman specifically stopping a time travel attack ths way,or of it ever being used as such.Considering that without a cosmic treadmill being used,the speedforce sucks for Time travel,with absolutely no real way to guide themeselves to their destination.Flash once ended up in ancient egypt...

Well thats up to you decide. If you look at the link he had already built it and he describes in detail about how the speedforce works. The speedforce alters time and space therefore his device must be able to do this to stop him.

Now Frank also has a GL ring, which he can recharge at any time and ia also an expert on constructing and maintaining Punisher robots im sure with this knowledge even if Bats device is lacking he could come up with a way to create a time device.

Heres countermeasures for Zatanna.

http://img16.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=d0c_batfiles3.jpg

JLA: Tower of Babel clearly means Batman can time hop through the universe and smash the Speedforce with Batmagic.

Thunderbolt being a 5th dimensional imp doesn't preclude him from being on DC Earth - considering he is on DC Earth last I recall.

Seriously how much about any of these characters do you know at all, including these Galactus' robots. How much do you know about DC Earth at all, considering you don't even know who Zatanna is and what she can do.

And Batman's countermeasures for Zatanna won't work considering she isn't actually voice dependent in her magic. Under the bizarre assumption that Punisher for some reason has all of Batman's countermeasures on his PDA.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well he lives in the 5th dimension now anyway. Thats not DC earth.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

That could be a stalemate then. Pun cant be detected in his base of operation and they cant kill what they cant find. I dunno maybe Batmans has spells that could help.

If Frank has to hide in his base then he's lost already.Also,Batman,spells?Batman hates and utterly fails when it comes to magic,he's said so himself.So this comment alone is basically a concession of defeat for Punisher.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Well thats up to you decide. If you look at the link he had already built it and he describes in detail about how the speedforce works. The speedforce alters time and space therefore his device must be able to do this to stop him.

Now Frank also has a GL ring, which he can recharge at any time and ia also an expert on constructing and maintaining Punisher robots im sure with this knowledge even if Bats device is lacking he could come up with a way to create a time device.

All that says is he could build a wall that wally can't phase through and that he could give him an uber seizure like i said,Time travel is mentioned NO WHERE,Bats even says he needs to do further study,so that doesn't help..at all 😂

So lets see,He's a Gl who isn't equal to Hal Jordan,who himself has had his histort altered and been time raped,and he's able to build killing machines,and you specifically stated that's all he learned about mechanics,This equates to a time machine,how?

Sorry,Pun doesn't have a leg to stand on,and considering the fact that off the top of my head i got three things that stop Pun dead,anyone can see he fails.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
JLA: Tower of Babel clearly means Batman can time hop through the universe and smash the Speedforce with Batmagic.

That just goes to show you havnet read anything I posted. In tower of Babel he did not use the countermeasures that I posted in the scan I also gave an explanation to the scan. Read it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Thunderbolt being a 5th dimensional imp doesn't preclude him from being on DC Earth - considering he is on DC Earth last I recall.

Lat you recall I need evidence.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Seriously how much about any of these characters do you know at all, including these Galactus' robots. How much do you know about DC Earth at all, considering you don't even know who Zatanna is and what she can do.

I do know who Zatanna is and what she can do. If you dont like my lack of knowledge then dont participate then. Simple really.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That just goes to show you havnet read anything I posted. In tower of Babel he did not use the countermeasures that I posted in the scan I also gave an explanation to the scan. Read it.

Lat you recall I need evidence.

I do know who Zatanna is and what she can do. If you dont like my lack of knowledge then dont participate then. Simple really.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Actually,he lives in a pen in our dimension,so yah,it is DC earth.

Ok fair enough. There are examples of him getting early warnings? Dindt the Ultra Humanite manage to possess one of the thunders?

Originally posted by Martian_mind

If Frank has to hide in his base then he's lost already.Also,Batman,spells?Batman hates and utterly fails when it comes to magic,he's said so himself.So this comment alone is basically a concession of defeat for Punisher.

Stalemate I guess, then.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

All that says is he could build a wall that wally can't phase through and that he could give him an uber seizure like i said,Time travel is mentioned NO WHERE,Bats even says he needs to do further study,so that doesn't help..at all 😂

He said that he needs to do futher study that doesnt mean it doesnt work. The speedforce works by distorting space and time therefore the device needs to distort time and space to work.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

So lets see,He's a Gl who isn't equal to Hal Jordan,who himself has had his histort altered and been time raped,and he's able to build killing machines,and you specifically stated that's all he learned about mechanics,This equates to a time machine,how?

No the device needs to distort time and space to work. The question is can he use his GL ring and his knowledge of Galactus tech to advance the technology and tus creating a time machine. As far as I know Punisher robots done have time travel capabilities but they can warp space. This knowledge can help him do this because he will also been an expert on this type of tech.

One way in which he could make it work is just by adding more power to the machine. The more power the more it distorts time and space.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok fair enough. There are examples of him getting early warnings? Dindt the Ultra Humanite manage to possess one of the thunders?

Stalemate I guess, then.

He said that he needs to do futher study that doesnt mean it doesnt work. The speedforce works by distorting space and time therefore the device needs to distort time and space to work.

No the device needs to distort time and space to work. The question is can he use his GL ring and his knowledge of Galactus tech to advance the technology and tus creating a time machine. As far as I know Punisher robots done have time travel capabilities but they can warp space. This knowledge can help him do this because he will also been an expert on this type of tech.

One way in which he could make it work is just by adding more power to the machine. The more power the more it distorts time and space.

Ultra Humanite mind controlled an ex host with alheimers,who no longer had the thunderbolt....so it's irellevant.

How is it a stalemate?trapped in his fortress,he can't kill the DCU,and thus has failed his task,therefore Punisher loses.

No it doesn't,Batmans talking about the vibrational frequency,and how he could match it to create unfazable walls,thats referring to molecules moving quickly,not Time travel.And the other is seizure,so batman not once,EVER mentions time travel as a possibility.

Also,Punisher is stated to have been taught to build these robots by Galactus right?Tell me,if they could be made to be such powerful tools,don't you think that Galactus himself would have done so?

Also,You seem to Think that it would just be Booster Gold N co who go back in time....What if they bring an army of the worlds best?Leave Jakeem and Phantom Stranger to defend the present,and take Zatanna,Ragman,Nightshade,Enchantress,Dr Fate and Some others with them?

Punisher fails man,admit it,and move on to greener pastures.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
That just goes to show you havnet read anything I posted. In tower of Babel he did not use the countermeasures that I posted in the scan I also gave an explanation to the scan. Read it.

Oh wait.

This is what happened in Tower of Babel:

An anti-vibratory bullet (countervibratory artifact) was fired at Wally. He tried to vibrate through it but instead it was lodged into his spinal cord (which funnily enough is part of the central nervous system).

Poor show, poor show, I mean you could have just wikied that and got this information like you do most of the time.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Lat you recall I need evidence.

Is Thunderbolt on Earth. Or is everyone else in the 5th Dimension?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I do know who Zatanna is and what she can do. If you dont like my lack of knowledge then dont participate then. Simple really.

Wikipedia says it...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Thunder
Then Alfheim says it as if he's remembering something that he forgot and is just recalling now.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Dindt the Ultra Humanite manage to possess one of the thunders?

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Ultra Humanite mind controlled an ex host with alheimers,who no longer had the thunderbolt....so it's irellevant.

Well apparently actually he was cured of Alzehimers when he got possesed. Shouldnt Jakeem have got warned that the other Tunder was gonna get possessed. Examples of warning sytems please.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

How is it a stalemate?trapped in his fortress,he can't kill the DCU,and thus has failed his task,therefore Punisher loses.

He doesnt have to kill them, its to conquer. They dont destroy him

Originally posted by Martian_mind

No it doesn't,Batmans talking about the vibrational frequency,and how he could match it to create unfazable walls,thats referring to molecules moving quickly,not Time travel.And the other is seizure,so batman not once,EVER mentions time travel as a possibility.

Bro I dont think you get what im saying. It doesnt mention time and space travel but we know the speedforce distorts time and space in order to counter it, the machine must be able to do it. At any rate if you travel fast enough you can travel back in time he could simply give The Punisher robots a power boost.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Also,Punisher is stated to have been taught to build these robots by Galactus right?Tell me,if they could be made to be such powerful tools,don't you think that Galactus himself would have done so?

No not neccesarily. Cap could probably get somebody to give him superhuman strength via scientfic means, the fact that he hasnt doesnt mean he cant. Thats just the way it goes.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Also,You seem to Think that it would just be Booster Gold N co who go back in time....What if they bring an army of the worlds best?Leave Jakeem and Phantom Stranger to defend the present,and take Zatanna,Ragman,Nightshade,Enchantress,Dr Fate and Some others with them?

Since they dont always go back in time we cant assume they will use that technqiue.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Punisher fails man,admit it,and move on to greener pastures.

Yeah he might dont do, no problem. I dont know whay you're making a big deal about it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Since they dont always go back in time we cant assume they will use that technqiue.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well apparently actually he was cured of Alzehimers when he got possesed. Shouldnt Jakeem have got warned that the other Tunder was gonna get possessed. Examples of warning sytems please.

He doesnt have to kill them, its to conquer. They dont destroy him

Bro I dont think you get what im saying. It doesnt mention time and space travel but we know the speedforce distorts time and space in order to counter it, the machine must be able to do it. At any rate if you travel fast enough you can travel back in time he could simply give The Punisher robots a power boost.

No not neccesarily. Cap could probably get somebody to give him superhuman strength via scientfic means, the fact that he hasnt doesnt mean he cant. Thats just the way it goes.

Since they dont always go back in time we cant assume they will use that technqiue.

Yeah he might dont do, no problem. I dont know whay you're making a big deal about it.

The Thunderbolt was in the Pen at the time,and Because Humanite was dominating another thunder,it was hidden from Jakeem.Though one time i do belive he saved Jakeems ass from Gentlemen ghost wthout any requests.

And,He's trapped?not much conquering then,is there?So he fails.

No,you don't seem to understand,it explains,right there,how the machine,works,and it does not bend space/time.

Still,we have no proof it can be done,and thus it is speculation at this point.

Since Punisher's never used a Gl ring,can we assume he can't use it?Also,The heroes have done the "Uber army of heroes goes back in time to own" approach more times then you'd think.
xamples,CoIE,Zero Hour,JSA😄arkness falls,etc..

I don't overtly care,i just feel i';ve proved that their is no may about it,punisher will always fail.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You know this from reading the Tower of Babel arc I presume.

Oh wait.

This is what happened in Tower of Babel:

An anti-vibratory bullet (countervibratory artifact) was fired at Wally. He tried to vibrate through it but instead it was lodged into his spinal cord (which funnily enough is part of the central nervous system).
/B]

People that have read that have said that drugs were used. 😬 Again thats not the machine thats is mentioned in the countermeasures.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
[B]
Poor show, poor show, I mean you could have just wikied that and got this information like you do most of the time.

Yeah I do. Like I said dont know if Pun beats DC earth supposed to be a fun thread you're taking it serioulsy.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

The irony. O the irony. Punisher builds magic Oan time machines through the Speed Force using Batman's files (unproven)

Batman said he already built looking at his track record it probably works. 😬 I said the speedforce alters time and space, if the power of the machine is increased time travel is possible.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

while Thunderbolt is inexplicably trapped in the 5th Dimension (despite Jakeem being able to call him at will afaik.)

Is Thunderbolt on Earth. Or is everyone else in the 5th Dimension?
Lots of people don't know things. Fewer people make shit up as if they know things then go off onto ludicrous tangents.

Hes on earth I didnt know that it was a pen.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

hmm MasterBruce sock?

Im a sock now?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I do know who Zatanna is and what she can do. If you dont like my lack of knowledge then dont participate then. Simple really.

That's great, sounds like something from Fear Of Logic's posts.

"If you don't like the fact that I try to debate stuff I know nothing about, don't post"

Originally posted by Martian_mind
The Thunderbolt was in the Pen at the time,and Because Humanite was dominating another thunder,it was hidden from Jakeem.Though one time i do belive he saved Jakeems ass from Gentlemen ghost wthout any requests.

Well why didnt Jakeem get a warning?

Originally posted by Martian_mind

And,He's trapped?not much conquering then,is there?So he fails.

Yeah. *shrug* But im gonna look into those guys anyway im sure they have limitations I mean ive seen Black Adam give Dr Fate problems.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

No,you don't seem to understand,it explains,right there,how the machine,works,and it does not bend space/time.

Ok i'll try again. the speedforce distorts time and space. In order to counter it, it needs to distort time and space. So eventhough it doesnt mention it, we know by defult it does.

Still,we have no proof it can be done,and thus it is speculation at this point.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Since Punisher's never used a Gl ring,can we assume he can't use it?

No he gots 100 years training.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Also,The heroes have done the "Uber army of heroes goes back in time to own" approach more times then you'd think.
xamples,CoIE,Zero Hour,JSA😄arkness falls,etc..

Meh stop of bother there. I dont even think 100s of Punsiher robots could stop that. The only thing is they cant go back in time to fight him unless they know hes a threat...

Originally posted by Martian_mind

I don't overtly care,i just feel i';ve proved that their is no may about it,punisher will always fail.

Ok

Originally posted by llagrok
That's great, sounds like something from Fear Of Logic's posts.

"If you don't like the fact that I try to debate stuff I know nothing about, don't post"

Well it was supposed to be a fun thread really.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well why didnt Jakeem get a warning?

Yeah. *shrug* But im gonna look into those guys anyway im sure they have limitations I mean ive seen Black Adam give Dr Fate problems.

Ok i'll try again. the speedforce distorts time and space. In order to counter it, it needs to distort time and space. So eventhough it doesnt mention it, we know by defult it does.

Still,we have no proof it can be done,and thus it is speculation at this point.

No he gots 100 years training.

Meh stop of bother there. I dont even think 100s of Punsiher robots could stop that. The only thing is they cant go back in time to fight him unless they know hes a threat...

Ok

Alright,You seem to grasp everything i'm saying so far except the concept of Batmans counter measure.

Here goes.Read the scans X posted,they mention a "vibratory effect" right?Then read the bio,again "vibration" is mentioned.You see,Batman is NOT disrupting the speedforce,he even says that he doesn't understand it.He says that he's going to harm the Flash,he just affects his body,not the speedforce in anyway,and as you said it's all speculation.

Also,if Frank doesn't make himself known as a threat,he can't really conquer,and as PS can see multiple realities at once,he can't become a threat without them knowing,so know matter what he does,he cannot win.

Case closed dammit.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Again thats not the machine thats is mentioned in the countermeasures.

Do you really expect people to give you a medal and a parade for talking out of your ass to try and fanwank Punisher up until he's some semblence of a threat at all to DC Earth?

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Alright,You seem to grasp everything i'm saying so far except the concept of Batmans counter measure.

No I understand it fine.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Here goes.Read the scans X posted,they mention a "vibratory effect" right?Then read the bio,again "vibration" is mentioned.You see,Batman is NOT disrupting the speedforce,he even says that he doesn't understand it.He says that he's going to harm the Flash,he just affects his body

Er no. He talks about mimicking the vibrational qualities of the speedforce read it again.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

,not the speedforce in anyway,and as you said it's all speculation.

Yes it is the speedforce read it again and stop taking liberties with the scan. No its not speculation look at Bats track record. You also ignored what I said about giving a boost to the Punsiher robots speed, he can increase they're speed till they time travel.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Also,if Frank doesn't make himself known as a threat,he can't really conquer,and as PS can see multiple realities at once,he can't become a threat without them knowing,so know matter what he does,he cannot win.

Doesnt matter a specified at the beginning he cant be detected.

Originally posted by Martian_mind

Case closed dammit.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are you saying that countervibrational artifacts and introducing these directly into the central nervous system aren't mentioned?

Im refering to the machine. 😐

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Or that countervibrational artifacts in the form of barriers equate to time travel devices, when it says absolutely nothing about time travel in the countermeasures, because the countermeasures designed by Batman against Wally are based on you guessed it observation of the common vibrational pattern.

I know it doesnt but as I said the speedforce distorts time and space so to counter it, the machine has to do it also.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Do you really expect people to give you a medal and a parade for talking out of your ass to try and fanwank Punisher up until he's some semblence of a threat at all to DC Earth?

Not really theres just no need to be insulting. Well hell if I say Cap can beat Luke Cage I still get insulted, so its got nothing to do with me fanwanking you're just not a very nice person. *shrug* Hell Cap beats Spiderman via H2h fanboyism!!!!!!

No it doesn't,it just has to counter the speed of Flashes molecules.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
No it doesn't,it just has to counter the speed of Flashes molecules.

Which are being manipulated by the speedforce. 🙄