Originally posted by LordKaosThat's also weird because when you wanted to prove the HCT was not the future of 616
or even a real universe
you were more than ready to call 616 the prime universe from which all others spring,
HCT is still not the definite future of 616,
because there is NO definite future of 616,
only possible and alternate futures.
And yea, 616 is the spring from where all space/time flows.
Originally posted by LordKaosso according to you as long as there is a 616 Phoenix all other universes are safe.
Phoenix plays a role, like all the concepts do.
Originally posted by LordKaosThat universe you mentioned before that collapsed,
was obviously at the end of it's life as it has been stated on panel that humanity will replace the abstracts and the universe will begin anew.
Then humans there were the culmination of the celestials experiments,
they evolved into Eternity.
I'm not seeing your point.
How does this make the Phoenix less important/powerful, or Ion win?
I don't know where you're going. 🙁
Originally posted by LordKaosWell goodnight all,
I gotta go to work Mr. Master,
thank you once again for a most exhilarating exchange
Originally posted by LordKaosI must admit the few months I had you on ignore have been a little boring
Originally posted by LordKaosuntil next time peace and may the Phoenix be with you
Originally posted by Mr Master
You mea, the stars begin to blink out,
by the Phoenix Force becoming nullified.Roma clearly told Galactus he could NOT separate the two,
for it would slay both.Which is true, this is why the natural sustenance of the stars was fading out.
Same thing that was happening when Galactus was ersing it,
the natural order of the stars would change,
other powers would have to sustain them,
or create new ones entirely,
as easy as a snap of fingers for many.If it was unkillable, it wouldn't have been reborn so may times,
obviously like all concepts, it can be erased.
It's already been proven in Excalibur #25.Also when the Neutron Galaxy was absorbing Phoenix.
Post the scan that states, the processes would kill the Phoenix Force.
Originally posted by LordKaos👆
crap and more crap I don't need any of you to speculate unless you have real feats that put him above, if you had any I'm sure they would have come up pages ago, so until then Jean/Phoenix wins IMO of course. He can control space and time the thread says this is the full power of the Phoenix (who has no known limits so far) a power that can linger long enough after the end of all that is to start another. Maybe you should read an Ion comic since you only seem to be able to give feats done by Parallax.
Lets see when phoenix needs to her uber time powers she needs the white hot room,when ion wants to do something he just does it,when ion wants to get into past and screw around he can,hes omnipresent with complete control over time and space,phoenix isnt,ion was a near omnipotent phoenix loses to xorn,ion then got a massive amp,phoenix still almost died to xorn,this is just laughable.
Originally posted by id369Post the scan that states, the processes would kill the Phoenix Force.
When Galactus intended to separate the Force from Rachel,
he inadvertently began erasing the Phoenix Force from existence!
This is what happened:
Phoenix Force in its natural state is the sustenance of the Stars,
WITHOUT the Phoenix Force's existence
the Stars will fade because they would have no energy to draw on.
"Galactus ... the Stars are goin Out"
and this is WHY, according to Roma:
"That Child (Rachel Summers) IS Phoenix,
Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death,
there is a natural order to her being (EXISTENCE) as to yours, and all creation"
...............................................................................
Roma was referring to Phoenix being ERASED from existence,
and it's CANON!
(an excerpt from Roma's OFFICIAL Marvel Universe Handbook Bio)
Bibliography - Excalibur #25 -
"WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II"
...............................................................................
I remember a debate where someone thought this scenerio was about the separation,
where only Rachel would die,
and not about the fact that the Phoenix Force is about to get ERASED!
BUT,
WHY would Roma CARE if Galactus slays Rachel Summers? hum
...............................................................................
In fact
Right before Galactus was about to KILL the Phoenix Force,
ROMA appears and says,
"Certain Events are of such Significance,
they must be Witnessed first hand,
THIS is a MOMENT in the Scheme of Things
which must stand or fall on it's own"
Yes, this moment of "SUCH significance"
was simply about Galactus separating the Force from Rachel. 😂
INSTEAD of a True Cosmic event of Significance,
like the Phoenix Force being NO MORE! - thus upsetting the natural order of things.
...............................................................................
Come one, I know you reading comprehension isn’t that low.
This instrument will liberate the essence of the Phoenix from the physicality of its fleshly casement…
And Return it to the cosmos….whence it came from and where it rightly belongs. - Galactus (Excalibur 25)
And what happens to Rachael herself, as a result? - Nightcrawler (Excalibur 25)
Somehow Nightcrawler, I don’t think that much matters. - Rachael (Excalibur 25)
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7387/excalibur02505wu5.jpg
The purpose of the instrument is clearly stated, what Galactus has no idea is the consequence of forcibly separating the Force from the Host.
That is why Roma, Death, and the Watcher intervene. To let him know that Phoenix has a purpose to fulfill with the host. And breaching the bond comes with a heavy consequence.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by id369Come one, I know you reading comprehension isn’t that low.
Originally posted by id369This instrument will liberate the essence of the Phoenix from the physicality of its fleshly casement…
And Return it to the cosmos….whence it came from and where it rightly belongs. - Galactus (Excalibur 25)And what happens to Rachael herself, as a result? - Nightcrawler (Excalibur 25)
Somehow Nightcrawler, I don’t think that much matters. - Rachael (Excalibur 25)
The purpose of the instrument is clearly stated, what Galactus has no idea is the consequence of forcibly separating the Force from the Host.
That is why Roma, Death, and the Watcher intervene. To let him know that Phoenix has a purpose to fulfill with the host. And breaching the bond comes with a heavy consequence.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I clearly stated that Galactus' purpose was to separate the Force from Rachel,
but like Roma SAID:
"Galactus ... the Stars are goin Out"
and this is WHY, according to Roma:
"That Child (Rachel Summers) IS Phoenix,
Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death,
there is a natural order to her being (EXISTENCE) as to yours, and all creation"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
They can't be separated!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why it would lead to this:
Bibliography - Excalibur #25 -
"WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II"
...............................................................................
Did you just like completely overlook that?
Next time pay attention before coming out your face high and mighty,
trying to judge my level of comprehension.
You just made an ass of yourself.
Also, to make it even more clear ...
cleared than the Marvel Handbook blatantly points out!
Clearer that Roma specifically points out on panel!
Right before Galactus releases the PF:
..........................................................................................
Galactus responded with:
"I am Supreme unto myself, I will NOT be bound Reaper, by Entity or Concept"
Watcher says:
"Yet Phoenix LIVES" (Uatu thought Galactus was going to surely kill Phoenix)
Galactus responds:
"FOR the PRESENT --- as in, for Now ... (What does this sound like to you?)
... the day is yours Starchilde,
and with it, an awareness of your Role (the Eternal Pattern)
in the Scheme of Things"
..........................................................................................
The Eternal Pattern, is Phoenix's ROLE in the Universe,
Galactus was going to END that Pattern
by unwittingly ERASING the Phoenix Force from existence,
Galactus initially only wanted to return the Force to the cosmos,
but as we learned, that was impossible,
because Rachel was Phoenix the embodiment of the Force,
so in trying to separate them,
Galactus was indeed killing them both which were one (Rachel/Phoenix)
just like the Official Marvel Handbook clearly states,
Roma, "WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix"
Had Galactus not freed the Phoenix Force with the click of that button,
the Phoenix would have vanished into non-existence.
The scan says Phoenix 2
Phoenix 2 is a reference to Rachel Summers NOT the Phoenix Force which she housed. The bio is conclusively referring to Rachel.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Eternal Pattern, is Phoenix's ROLE in the Universe,
Galactus was going to END that Pattern
by unwittingly ERASING the Phoenix Force from existence,
Galactus initially only wanted to return the Force to the cosmos,
but as we learned, that was impossible,
because Rachel was Phoenix the embodiment of the Force,
so in trying to separate them,
Galactus was indeed killing them both which were one (Rachel/Phoenix)just like the Official Marvel Handbook clearly states,
, "WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix"
[B]RomaHad Galactus not freed the Phoenix Force with the click of that button,
the Phoenix would have vanished into non-existence. [/B]
It was Galactus' intention to separate the Force from Rachel, thats what he said he was going to do and thats what Roma later cautioned him against doing.
What people are wrong in doing is assuming that because the stars were going that Galactus was killing the Force or wiping it out of existence. That is not stated anywhere on panel and neither is it depicted. You are just seeing what you want to see on panel, you are not relaying what is just stated clear as day for all to see.
The stars started fading because Galactus was disrupting nature by severing the bond between Phoenix and its avatar. The Phoenix manifests on the physical plane via an avatar to carry out its Phoenix work. Galactus was attempting to wrench the Force from Rachel.
"There is a natural order to her being" Rachels being, her bond with the Force is part of the natural order.
"As to yours" Just like Galactus' being is part of the natural order
"And all creation" Just like there a natural order to creation itself.
Romas basically saying that Rachel in her role as a host for the Phoenix Force is as much a part of the natural of scheme of things as Galactus and as creation itself.
Roma said:
"You can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death, there is a natural order to her being as to yours, and all creation"
In other words he cant separate Rachel from the Force as that bond is as much a part of the natural order of things as both Galactus and creation itself.
Roma then says "Violate it (said bond she talked of) at your peril"
Galactus then tries to justify his actions
"My sustenance is living planets, the Phoenix can obliterate an entire cosmos"
by saying he only eats planets while Phoenix can destroy the cosmos.
Death talks about the benefits of the Phoenix "And from that death bring about new life."
Death then berates Galactus' actions as Roma did "But youre changing that, breaking the eternal pattern"
How is Galactus doing that? What did Galactus say the machine was doing?
Seperating the Force from Rachel and returning it to the universe.
AFTER the stars started fading did Roma criticize Galactus for killing or erasing the Force or did she merely berate him for separating the Force from Rachel?
"You can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death"
Thats what i thought.
Why?
"there is a natural order to her being"
Precisely.
WHERE does it say the Force is going to die or be erased from existence through Galactus' attempts to separate the two?
Roma berated Galactus for being silly enough to separate the two(The Force and Rachel) because her being(her role as an avatar) is as much a part of nature as Galactus or creation itself. (The wielding of the Force being said to be a birthright of the Grey family) Hence the reason why the stars were fading. Because Galactus was disrupting that natural bond.
As death said "breaking that eternal pattern"
At the end of the day referring back to the WHR incident. Youre merely being facetious, because you have nothing to fall back on.
Nowhere on panel or within a bio is it stated that Jean can only use her telekinesis to such a high extent within the crystal, therefore you cant assume that is a case and then treat that opinion as fact here.
Jean went to the WHR because she had finished her designated task which was the disinfection of reality. The WHR is the base of operations for the Corps and the Phoenix Consciousness from which all manifestations of the Force stem from.
Unless you have an official statement saying that Jean had to go to the WHR or she would have been unable to perform her feat then drop the point.
The very latest bio from November updated Jeans powers with the feat. There was no mention of her requiring the aid of the WHR. There was no mention of this on panel AT ALL.
Your whole argument is an attempt to demean the feat because it is a very high ranking one and it upsets your biased hierarchy.(which i look forward to regularly posting in in the near future 🙂 )
I could come up with a similarly ridiculous opinion, such as LT only has powers when he wears his purple bonnet. All of his feats are performed with his bonnet on so you cant say its not true!!!!
An absolute load of BULLSH*T.
Why? Because on panel or within a bio it has NEVER EVER been stated that wearing his purple bonnet is a requirement for him using his powers.
Never ever has it been stated that being within the crystal is a requirement for Jean using the Phoenix Force for such high level TK.
GAME OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe scan says Phoenix 2
Phoenix 2 is a reference to Rachel Summers
NOT the Phoenix Force which she housed.
The bio is conclusively referring to Rachel.
Phoenix 2 is the second manifestation of the Phoenix Force, NOT Rachel.
Rachel is Phoenix 2, "LIVING EMBODIMENT of ONE of the PRIMAL FORCES!"
as Roma clearly stated.
Nice try on the ever so resent spin of things.
Originally posted by GalacticStormIt was Galactus' intention to separate the Force from Rachel,
thats what he said he was going to do
and thats what Roma later cautioned him against doing.
Originally posted by GalacticStormWhat people are wrong in doing is assuming that because the stars were going that Galactus was killing the Force or wiping it out of existence. That is not stated anywhere on panel and neither is it depicted. You are just seeing what you want to see on panel, you are not relaying what is just stated clear as day for all to see.
Coincidentally I see it Marvel's way!
Bibliography - Excalibur #25 -
"WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II"
😂 ... just too funny dogs.
Originally posted by GalacticStormThe stars started fading because
Galactus was disrupting nature by severing the bond
between Phoenix and its avatar.
The Phoenix manifests on the physical plane via an avatar
to carry out its Phoenix work.
Galactus was attempting to wrench the Force from Rachel.
The Stars started fading because Galactus was KILLING the Phoenix Force,
simple and plain.
Originally posted by Mr MasterThis is inconsequential info to my post.
I clearly stated that Galactus' purpose was to separate the Force from Rachel,
but like Roma SAID:
"Galactus ... the Stars are goin Out"
and this is WHY, according to Roma:
"That Child (Rachel Summers) IS Phoenix,
Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death,
there is a natural order to her being (EXISTENCE) as to yours, and all creation"-------------------------------------------------------------------------
They can't be separated!
Because "THAT CHILD IS PHOENIX LIVING EMBODIMENT of ONE of the PRIMAL FORCES!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is why it would lead to this:
Bibliography - Excalibur #25 -
"WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II"
...............................................................................
Originally posted by GalacticStorm"There is a natural order to her being"[/B] Rachels being,
her bond with the Force is part of the natural order.
Look, cut these jokes out already.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm"As to yours" Just like Galactus' being is part of the natural order
"And all creation" Just like there a natural order to creation itself.
Romas basically saying that Rachel in her role as a host for the Phoenix Force is as much a part of the natural of scheme of things as Galactus and as creation itself.
"Galactus ... the Stars are goin Out"
and this is WHY, according to Roma:
"That Child (Rachel Summers) IS Phoenix,
Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death,
there is a natural order to her being (EXISTENCE) as to yours, and all creation"
KILLE RACHEL ... you KILL the FORCE!
We know this is true because:
The Phoenix Force tells Rachel,
"ALL I have become, You ARE Too ...
.. My Essence is Bonded to Your Spirit"
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Roma said:
"You can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death, there is a natural order to her being as to yours, and all creation"
In other words he cant separate Rachel from the Force as that bond is as much a part of the natural order of things as both Galactus and creation itself.
Roma then says "Violate it (said bond she talked of) at your peril"Galactus then tries to justify his actions
"My sustenance is living planets, the Phoenix can obliterate an entire cosmos"by saying he only eats planets while Phoenix can destroy the cosmos.
Death talks about the benefits of the Phoenix "And from that death bring about new life."
Death then berates Galactus' actions as Roma did "But youre changing that, breaking the eternal pattern"
Originally posted by GalacticStormHow is Galactus doing that? What did Galactus say the machine was doing?
Seperating the Force from Rachel and returning it to the universe.
AFTER the stars started fading did Roma criticize Galactus for killing or erasing the Force or did she merely berate him for separating the Force from Rachel?
"You can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death"
Thats what i thought.Why?
"there is a natural order to her being"Precisely.
"That Child (Rachel Summers) IS Phoenix,
Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death,
Pay attention to avoid circles duke.
Originally posted by GalacticStormWHERE does it say the Force is going to die or be erased from existence through Galactus' attempts to separate the two?
Bibliography - Excalibur #25 -
"WARNED Galactus NOT to SLAY Phoenix II"
...............................................................................
Originally posted by GalacticStormRoma berated Galactus for being silly enough to separate the two(The Force and Rachel) because her being(her role as an avatar) is as much a part of nature as Galactus or creation itself. (The wielding of the Force being said to be a birthright of the Grey family) Hence the reason why the stars were fading. Because Galactus was disrupting that natural bond.
As death said "breaking that eternal pattern"
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
At the end of the day referring back to the WHR incident. Youre merely being facetious, because you have nothing to fall back on.Nowhere on panel or within a bio is it stated that Jean can only use her telekinesis to such a high extent within the crystal, therefore you cant assume that is a case and then treat that opinion as fact here.
Jean went to the WHR because she had finished her designated task which was the disinfection of reality. The WHR is the base of operations for the Corps and the Phoenix Consciousness from which all manifestations of the Force stem from.
Unless you have an official statement saying that Jean had to go to the WHR or she would have been unable to perform her feat then drop the point.
The very latest bio from November updated Jeans powers with the feat. There was no mention of her requiring the aid of the WHR. There was no mention of this on panel [B]AT ALL
.Your whole argument is an attempt to demean the feat because it is a very high ranking one and it upsets your biased hierarchy.(which i look forward to regularly posting in in the near future )
I could come up with a similarly ridiculous opinion, such as LT only has powers when he wears his purple bonnet. All of his feats are performed with his bonnet on so you cant say its not true!!!!
An absolute load of BULLSH*T.
Why? Because on panel or within a bio it has NEVER EVER been stated that wearing his purple bonnet is a requirement for him using his powers.
Never ever has it been stated that being within the crystal is a requirement for Jean using the Phoenix Force for such high level TK.
GAME OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/B]
You been bottom I don't know how many times,
but when ever you get a single person to agree with you,
you jump on your 50 foot horse and confidently stick your foot in your mouth.
😂 You thought you proved something with your post,
and came out gunz blazin like you the man. spin
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Phoenix 2 is the name given by Marvel to refer to Rachel Summers as Rachel was the second Phoenix entity to appear in Marvel.
Therefore when the bio says Phoenix 2 it is referring to Rachel. Not once on panel is it stated that the Phoenix Force itself was going to be killed. It mentions Phoenix, which is the entity formed by a bonding of host and Force and the bios refer not to the Force, but specifically Phoenix 2.
Sorry mate. Your own evidence has cost ya here bawling
Originally posted by Mr Master
Meaningless off-topic drivel mixed with on topic bullshit stirred nicely in a sauce of gibberish.You been bottom I don't know how many times,
but when ever you get a single person to agree with you,
you jump on your 50 foot horse and confidently stick your foot in your mouth.😂 You thought you proved something with your post,
and came out gunz blazin like you the man. ~laugh:HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
When your ridiculous opinion is stated on panel and supported in bio like mine, then you can continue mouthing off.
Your opinion is the equivalent of me saying LT's powers are dependent on his bonnet, or Strangers' are dependent on his moustache!
You ever seen them use their powers without em? 😕
NO!!!! So you cant say its not true!!! 😱
BUUUUUULLLLLLshit
Why?
Because their powers have never ever ever ever been stated to be dependent on such things on panel OR in their bios.
Keep on trying son 😆
Originally posted by GalacticStormPhoenix 2 is the name given by Marvel to refer to Rachel Summers as Rachel was the second Phoenix entity to appear in Marvel.
Therefore when the bio says Phoenix 2 it is referring to Rachel.
Not once on panel is it stated that the Phoenix Force itself was going to be killed. It mentions Phoenix, which is the entity formed by a bonding of host and Force and the bios refer not to the Force, but specifically Phoenix 2.
"Galactus ... the Stars are goin Out"
and this is WHY, according to Roma:
"That Child (Rachel Summers) IS Phoenix,
Living Embodiment of ONE of the Primal Forces,
you can no more divide her spirit from flesh than you can life from death
Originally posted by GalacticStormSorry mate.
Your own evidence has cost ya here bawling
See, it's easy to grope one's own nuts.
I know though, in your case you really believe it makes you right. 😂
Originally posted by GalacticStormWhen your ridiculous opinion is stated on panel
and supported in bio like mine, then you can continue mouthing off.
Again .. see how easy that is.
Blowing yourself gives you a sense of victory hmmm. 😆
Originally posted by GalacticStormYour opinion is the equivalent of me saying LT's powers are dependent on his bonnet, or Strangers' are dependent on his moustache!
You ever seen them use their powers without em?
NO!!!! So you cant say its not true!!! :
BUUUUUULLLLLL
Why?
Because their powers have never ever ever ever been stated to be dependent on such things on panel OR in their bios.
Originally posted by GalacticStormKeep on trying son
