Jean Grey w/ Phoenix Force vs Ion

Originally posted by id369

Living proof is AoA still existing when it shouldn’t. You didn’t write AoA, you don’t don’t even work for marvel.

Comics>>>>>>you comments which goes strait to the shitter.

As for my "comments in the shitter," ...

Can you sing me a song,
I promise I won't laugh behind your back like the rest of the Phoenix respect thread visitors.

Originally posted by id369

Intertwine said arguments, with an irrelevant comment.
What did you try to establish?
Phoenix can not do much to an entire time line with out resorting to the WHR.
What was presented? Phoenix effecting an entire time line from being wipped, with out resorting to the WHR.

Can the Silver Suffer with the FF do the same unaided? Not with out a plot device.

Bah, I'm gonna post the 20 scans, just to watch you bleed,
cause you got a mouth that's deserving of such.

You result to insults like a spoiled brat.
Be a man dogs and just debate without spewing shit at every opening post.

Originally posted by id369

And that’s your problem, you are fixated in the idea that Jean needs to enter the WHR in order to effect an entire time line. Not just effect it, but do it specifically as it was previously done.

When otherwise, Phoenix is capable of effecting the timeline with resorting to WHR.

Saving a reality does not = to restructuring/manipulating/warping/remaking said Timeline.

As far as we all know,
Jean can atomically manipulate a Timeline withIN the WHR.

Jean can save Timelines outside the WHR, but through other methods,
just like all Phoenix avatars can do,
I mean, it's their job for crying out loud.

This doesn't make them any tougher,
as I already presented Universal saviour Giraud getting stomped by normal Dormammu.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Phoenix has NEVER manipulated a Timeline outside the WHR,
I challenge you to prove otherwise.

As far as we all know,
Jean can atomically manipulate a Timeline withIN the WHR.

Jean can save Timelines outside the WHR, but through other methods,
just like all Phoenix avatars can do,
I mean, it's their job for crying out loud.

Show us an on panel reference which states that Jeans high level telekinesisi is only activated by her geing in the WHR.

Show us where in that scene its stated that Jean gets a powerup from being in the WHR

Before she was in the WHR she extracted Sublime from reality. She then says she had to telekinetically amputate that future and we see that reality disappear and Jean is now outside of the crystal.

That feat with her telekinesis set precedence for what she went on to do.

All whats stated is that she used her telekinesis. You therefore have no justification(regardless of whether you actually believe it) to talk as if its a fact, that Jeans TK feat was dependent on her being in the WHR)

Jeans handbook, which is the very latest on the matter updates her powers with the feat. It makes no mention of your opinion, just like the actual comic itself.

Im sorry Mr Master, but you might as well let this one go 😬

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Ion took on the energies Parallax has left behind, however how well those energies can be utilised depends on teh users experience and their willpower, therefore you cannot use Parallax's feats to directly speak for Ion.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Yea I can the energy was never said to depend on willpower or anything,it wasnt just the energy left over it was part of parallax+oblivion+kyles energy+the guardians the only thing that can be said is that ions power was greater then parallaxs and of course thats before he got the starheart amping and the complete power of the battery back,ion has better feats then parallax so it doesnt matter anyways,phoenix isnt winning this just stop trying to prove she can because she cant.

At the end of the day, you cant assume that someone can tap into an energy source and use it as well as those who have used it before. It doesnt work like that here on the comic forums.

Post some feats of what Ion has done himself and we'll take it from there 😬

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Not every phoenix user is at the exact same level we know that,not every gl operates at the exact same level because of willpower ect effecting their powers,PARALLAX AND ION HAD THE LITERAL EXACT SAME POWER ABSORBED INTO THEM THEY CAN USE EACH OTHERS FEATS FOR THE MOST PART,what your doing is trolling and my dc stroking right what would that be,omgloltehhuccantbeatsuperman must be some serious wanking or I know myx can fight on the level of the inf gauntlet god I must be wanking,stfu and go read some ion comics and get back to me,the examples you tried to use fail because they are all dependant on the user something the central battery is not.

Trolling? you wish....but i let mods decide those things....and again"for the most part" and are you going to enlighten us as to what is the most part? is it when you feel your on the loosing side of a debate? or when you need a crutch to fall back on?

It is not a debate...Ion is not parallax...Ions feats are not Parallax's feats
Parallax is not ion..parallax feats are not Ions.....

Experience,intelligence,willpower and in some cases Strength, agility etc are going to make a difference with any...weapon...power source..Even a normal gun..The dual respect thread is a farce if its ment to say they have the same feats..if its used to save space...well that ok i guess..and sharing their feats is beyond ridiculous its bordering on cheating and ignorance

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Show us an on panel reference which states that Jeans high level telekinesisi is only activated by her geing in the WHR.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Show us where in that scene its stated that Jean gets a powerup from being in the WHR

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Before she was in the WHR she extracted Sublime from reality.
She then says she had to telekinetically amputate that future
and we see that reality disappear and Jean is now outside of the crystal.

Jean extracted Sublime, this amputated the future,
the amputated future is in her hands once inside her dimension.

Unless you're gonna try and say Sublime was the Future. 😂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

That feat with her telekinesis set precedence for what she went on to do.

All whats stated is that she used her telekinesis. You therefore have no justification(regardless of whether you actually believe it) to talk as if its a fact, that Jeans TK feat was dependent on her being in the WHR)

I clearly said many times,
Jean needed to be withIN the WHR to perform her feat during Here Comes Tomorrow.

Am I lying?

You know I'm not.

Can she do the same thing outside the room?

Perhaps, but it hasn't occurred on panel yet.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Jeans handbook, which is the very latest on the matter updates her powers with the feat. It makes no mention of your opinion, just like the actual comic itself.

A bio has to corroborate on panel depictions to have merit.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Im sorry Mr Master, but you might as well let this one go 😬

See, easy.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Jean can save Timelines outside the WHR, but through other methods,
just like all Phoenix avatars can do,
I mean, it's their job for crying out loud.

Cool, was waiting you to say that.
Now back about manipulating universe only in WHR.
You act Mr Master like she doesn't have telekinesis outside of the WHR.
Like she only has universal scale of telekinesis in the WHR. It doesn't work that way. Also bio doesn't state anything like that about only having such telekinesis in the WHR, but it states generally, she having on universal scale.

Maybe she is using WHR only to pull the universe from the multiverse (from WHR she can probably simultaneously watch all universes) in the WHR, so that she can choose which universe to heal, to atomically manipulate. But about having telekinesis to atomically reconstruct only in the WHR, doesn't make sense, because also bios states she has the power and it doesn't mention she can only do it in the WHR and that also makes more sense.

But you, Mr Master, can sometimes only be limited too much literally (no offence, because I don't mean anything bad or aiming for you to be stupid or can't think logically, but it seems no matter what, you only want to win this debate and debates generally) what is shown on panel, because she has done it in the WHR and you don't think other logical possibilities, but only bounded to them (panels) and then it's no way for other things (but necessarily must be shown on panel). But here is shown on panel actually and also bios states this, on panel is shown that she has atomically universal power (proven in HCM), but you act like outside WHR her telekinesis is considerably lesser. It doesn't work that way.

She has also proven outside WHR to have complete atomic control over matter, that she can feel every atom (never mentioned on universal scale), but it was logical she has and HCM supports this and now also bios supports this.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345

PARALLAX AND ION HAD THE LITERAL EXACT SAME POWER ABSORBED INTO THEM THEY CAN USE EACH OTHERS FEATS FOR THE MOST PART,what your doing is trolling and my dc stroking right what would that be,omgloltehhuccantbeatsuperman must be some serious wanking or I know myx can fight on the level of the inf gauntlet god I must be wanking,stfu and go read some ion comics and get back to me,the examples you tried to use fail because they are all dependant on the user something the central battery is not.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Hahhaah. He didn't own anyone. When Mr Master is owned, he can't admitt it. But then he shown some useless scans and someone like you say, ''Wow, look what he shown, scans, he must know a lot, he is correct''.

✅

Originally posted by Xplosive

Cool, was waiting you to say that.
Now back about manipulating universe only in WHR.
You act Mr Master like she doesn't have telekinesis outside of the WHR.
Like she only has universal scale of telekinesis in the WHR.
It doesn't work that way.

What I've said, I've repeated several times, and won't do so again.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Also bio doesn't state anything like that about only having such telekinesis in the WHR, but it states generally, she having on universal scale.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Maybe she is using WHR only to pull the universe from the multiverse (from WHR she can probably simultaneously watch all universes) in the WHR, so that she can choose which universe to heal, to atomically manipulate.

Nothing at all to suggest this as a possibility.

Originally posted by Xplosive

But about having telekinesis to atomically reconstruct only in the WHR, doesn't make sense, because also bios states she has the power and it doesn't mention she can only do it in the WHR and that also makes more sense.

Originally posted by Xplosive

But you, Mr Master, can sometimes only be limited too much literally what is shown on panel, because she has done it in the WHR and you don't think other logical possibilities, but only bounded to them (panels) and then it's no way for other things (but necessarily must be shown on panel).

That is truly Mr Master's mindset I'll admit.

Originally posted by Xplosive

But here is shown on panel actually and also bios states this, on panel is shown that she has atomically universal power (proven in HCM),

but you act like outside WHR her telekinesis is gone or considerably lesser.

Originally posted by Xplosive

She has also proven outside WHR to have complete atomic control over matter, that she can feel every atom (never mentioned on universal scale)

See Mr Master is fair if truth is being posted. 🙂

Originally posted by Xplosive

but it was logical she has
and now also bios supports this and also HCM supports this.

Originally posted by Mr Master
No one said that, so please pay attention so we can avoid circles.

I didn't say you had said that, but you act like that, like her TK control outside of WHR being lesser. And since it was not mentioned about she being powered up in WHR, I don't see why would her universal TK power be lesser outside of WHR, especially as we know that she said she can feel every atom and now bios stating she has universal atomic control and HCT showing her really having such control, although it was in WHR, she still shown her having universal TK power.
It's not like God-Like Cable could come in WHR and doing what WPOTC was doing with universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Bio (alone) supports that, true,
but HCT does not.

Yes, also HCM supports it, was it in WHR or outside, she still shown universal atomic control, so it supports her having universal atomic control, yes, it was in WHR, but it was still universal atomic control.

Originally posted by starlock
Trolling? you wish....but i let mods decide those things....and again"for the most part" and are you going to enlighten us as to what is the most part? is it when you feel your on the loosing side of a debate? or when you need a crutch to fall back on?

It is not a debate...Ion is not parallax...Ions feats are not Parallax's feats
Parallax is not ion..parallax feats are not Ions.....

Experience,intelligence,willpower and in some cases Strength, agility etc are going to make a difference with any...weapon...power source..Even a normal gun..The dual respect thread is a farce if its ment to say they have the same feats..if its used to save space...well that ok i guess..and sharing their feats is beyond ridiculous its bordering on cheating and ignorance

If not to the white hot room which is outside of space and time, where exactly would Jean have taken an amputated timeline? She could not have amputated the universe and not taken it away or it would not have been amputated. The WHR was not used as a place for power in that arc it was used as a place for diagnoses and healing they even call it a hospital, therefore Jeans TK can be looked at as the ambulance needed for transport. And during Vulcans time within the WHR the power that was there was not some force beyond Jean it was Jean/Phoenix, so she is the white hot room.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I didn't say you had said that, but you act like that, like her TK control outside of WHR being lesser. And since it was not mentioned about she being powered up in WHR, I don't see why would her universal TK power be lesser outside of WHR, especially as we know that she said she can feel every atom and now bios stating she has universal atomic control and HCT showing her really having such control, although it was in WHR, she still shown her having universal TK power.

"Hospital White Hot"

Think about it X,
why did she need the Timeline to be carried into the Hospital,
IF, she was able to repair it atomically on her own?

Why is it so blatantly spelled out for us, that indeed,
that Timeline entered a Hospital, where Jean THEN repaired it atomically withIN?

Come on X, be reasonable.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Yes, also HCM supports it, was it in WHR or outside, she still shown universal atomic control, so it supports her having universal atomic control, yes, it was in WHR, but it was still universal atomic control.

What's funny is,
we're all arguing about this Timeline reparation nonsense,
when Phoenix has done more important things,
like consuming a Universe, (in a What if ... but still)
which is of greater consequence in a battle.

I mean, how will her universal doctoral technique help in a fight?

Exactly, it won't.

Now, exploding a Universe in your enemy's face might help though, imo atleast.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Fine we will ignore ion and parallax having the exact same power source because you whine so much,ion still has the feats to win this because before his massive powerup via the starheart he was still an omnipresent being said to have infinite power,complete control over space and time with the utmost of ease,and described as the right hand of god,even the spectre acknowledges ions power,your reaching so far its ridiculous but whatever.

There really is no debate here..concerning thier feats..they cant be used as one...but the fact that you come here and try and tell me to use my brain ,and now i am whining....is the fact that posters like you cant just come out and say...hey i can see where your coming from,but i think etc....you have to resort to name calling and insults..which to me is a sign of a bad debator who lost a debate and needs to slam the person who showed you the fault in your logic....but these things can be dealt with with the ignore button, so be good and good luck with your debating skills

Originally posted by starlock
There really is no debate here..concerning thier feats..they cant be used as one...but the fact that you come here and try and tell me to use my brain ,and now i am whining....is the fact that posters like you cant just come out and say...hey i can see where your coming from,but i think etc....you have to resort to name calling and insults..which to me is a sign of a bad debator who lost a debate and needs to slam the person who showed you the fault in your logic....but these things can be dealt with with the ignore button, so be good and good luck with your debating skills

Originally posted by Mr Master
On Panel, Jean was able to repair that Timeline atomically withIN the WHR,
the WHR is a Hospital for Timelines:

"Hospital White Hot"

Think about it X,
why did she need the Timeline to be carried into the Hospital,
IF, she was able to repair it atomically on her own?

Why is it so blatantly spelled out for us, that indeed,
that Timeline entered a Hospital, where Jean THEN repaired it atomically withIN?

Come on X, be reasonable.

I am reasonable, you see I can debate seriously, if I want. She truly did heal it in WHR, but still did it with her own power. Like I said, it's not like God-Like Cable could do that in WHR despite he is powerful TK. I don't know, I think also outside of WHR she can atomically reconstruct and feel every atom on universal scale. I think she can fire it or tear it apart atomically, since her godlike TK.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Absolutely, I agree. 👆

What's funny is,
we're all arguing about this Timeline reparation nonsense,
when Phoenix has done more important things,
like consuming a Universe, (in a What if ... but still)
which is of greater consequence in a battle.

I mean, how will her universal doctoral technique help in a fight?

Exactly, it won't.

Now, exploding a Universe in your enemy's face might help though, imo atleast.

Yes, Pheonix did in What if, destroyed an Universe twice. Once consume it, 2nd in a single outburst of power destroyed it. I don't doubt that she has such destructive power in canon. Especially doing it easily twice in what if and is still a top tier in Marvel, belongs among powerhouses. It's also true that Pheonix has very very low showings, which are some just unacceptable due to what power Phoenix has and just shouldn't have happened or shouldn't be taken seriously.
Once she can do that and then next time loses to much lesser being or to much lesser power that otherwise shouldn't even have affect on Phoenix.

When she took the timeline to the WHR, the decision of what to do with it had not been made until after much dialog, Quire talked about what he thought should happen to it, but it was because Jean remembered her friends and family that after taking it there she decided to fix it. The purpose of taking it to the WHR was for examination,(mostly of herself as she had suddenly transcened to the status of White Crown, and had no idea what that meant until she recieved enlightenemt from the consciousness) had she known what to do while she was in the universe she could have fixed it or destroyed it without taking it as she already had tk control over the entire thing during the trip into the WHR.

.

Originally posted by Xplosive

I am reasonable, you see I can debate seriously, if I want.
She truly did heal it in WHR, but still did it with her own power.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Like I said, it's not like God-Like Cable could do that in WHR despite he is powerful TK. I don't know,

I think also outside of WHR she can atomically reconstruct and feel every atom on universal scale.
I think she can fire it or tear it apart atomically, since her godlike TK.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Yes, Pheonix did in What if, destroyed an Universe twice. Once consume it, 2nd in a single outburst of power destroyed it. I don't doubt that she has such destructive power in canon. Especially doing it easily twice in what if and is still a top tier in Marvel, belongs among powerhouses.

What if's are not taken seriously though,
they're never referenced in any kind of Handbook bios,
but technically speaking,
they have happened in mirror realities that have diverged.

Anywho, Phoenix still hasn't affected 616 entirely TK style,
not even a tiny portion like a pocket dimension within 616.
So, officially, 616 Phoenix hasn't really done much. (concerning the 616 reality that is)

But still, I'm surely not doubting Phoenix's universal status.

Originally posted by Xplosive

It's also true that Pheonix has very very low showings, which are some just unacceptable due to what power Phoenix has and just shouldn't have happened or shouldn't be taken seriously.
Once she can do that and then next time loses to much lesser being or to much lesser power that otherwise shouldn't even have affect on Phoenix.

Perhaps that's why on panel the Phoenix is not even a part of the Cosmic Hierarchy.