Batman w/Super Solider Serum vs. Captain America

Originally posted by Evangel94
Past threads have gone on for dozens of pages debating who was better in hand to hand combat. Right off the bat, it should tell you if the debate goes on for that long, that if there is any difference, it is minuscule and not worth debating. They are for all intents and purposes, equal.

The super soldier serum brings a human being, regardless of whatever previous physique, to peak human (and keeps them there). Batman has trained himself already peak human, if not nearly peak human, so the only advantage he would gain from the serum is the unlimited stamina, and a small possible boost to his muscles to if he isn't already peak human.

Without the serum, I favored Captain America slightly due to his unlimited stamina, and being able to wear down Batman over time. Now that both men have it, they are equals. I know some people don't want to hear it, but that's my opinion on that matter.

50/50 split right down the middle for both men if Batman has the Super Soldier Serum.

-Evangel94

👆

Err...Batman.

Batman is already peak human. The SSS will turn him into a superhuman, I am guessing between the class 2-5 level.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Past threads have gone on for dozens of pages debating who was better in hand to hand combat. Right off the bat, it should tell you if the debate goes on for that long, that if there is any difference, it is minuscule and not worth debating. They are for all intents and purposes, equal.

The super soldier serum brings a human being, regardless of whatever previous physique, to peak human (and keeps them there). Batman has trained himself already peak human, if not nearly peak human, so the only advantage he would gain from the serum is the unlimited stamina, and a small possible boost to his muscles to if he isn't already peak human.

Without the serum, I favored Captain America slightly due to his unlimited stamina, and being able to wear down Batman over time. Now that both men have it, they are equals. I know some people don't want to hear it, but that's my opinion on that matter.

50/50 split right down the middle for both men if Batman has the Super Soldier Serum.

-Evangel94

Hell no, it would most likely be a draw if Bats didn't have SSS.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
im gonna have to say Bats wins but for no reason any bats fanboy would say. Since Cap was weak and very normal b4 he took the SSS and it amped him to a certain level. But if you take a batman which is a peak human subject and give him the same juice and it works he will end up being physically superior to Cap. I say this as long as all bat fanboys agree that baseline bats is physically inferior to cap in all ways.

As for the MA i think they are even they both know a ton and Cap can adapt to a person's attack extremely well and fast.

so yeah bats 6/10

Anytime that they ever fought, it was a draw. Now you want people to say that Bats is inferior to Cap. Please, the only thing that Cap has that really matters. Is his stamina factor, nothing else that he has gives him the win other than he can last longer.

Batman and Cap draw, but Cap will eventually win because Batman will lose from exhaustion. - This is Batman without SSS

Batman with SSS vs. Cap would be an eternal draw, because Batman will not fatigue.

Make sense?

Originally posted by Mindset
Batman and Cap draw, but Cap will eventually win because Batman will lose from exhaustion. - This is Batman without SSS

Batman with SSS vs. Cap would be an eternal draw, because Batman will not fatigue.

Make sense?

That sounds more like you don't want to give Bats the win, to me 😐

Originally posted by Evangel94
Past threads have gone on for dozens of pages debating who was better in hand to hand combat. Right off the bat, it should tell you if the debate goes on for that long, that if there is any difference, it is minuscule and not worth debating. They are for all intents and purposes, equal.

I'm sorry, but that's a very ignorant assertion. Any debate that goes on very long isn't worth having?

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To everyone clamoring about Batman with the SSS becoming a superhuman since it made a scrawny little think like Steve Rogers peak human, I must say; it doesn't work that way.

The SSS is not a multiplier. It does not add a certain amount of strength or speed.

It makes the subject peak human. That's it. If Spiderman were given the SSS, his physical abilities wouldn't actually change at all.

In example, many men were later given the SSS; none of whom were as scrawny or pathetic as pre-SSS Rogers. None of them, afterwards, were anything more than Captain America.

Simple enough?

Batman vs. Captain America in hand to hand - Cap, 8/10.

Batman vs. Captain America - 5/10 either way

Batman w/ SSS vs. Captain America in hand to hand - 5/10 either way

Batman w/ SSS vs. Captain America - 8/10 Batman

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Batman is already peak human. The SSS will turn him into a superhuman, I am guessing between the class 2-5 level.

LOL

Originally posted by Marvelknight
That sounds more like you don't want to give Bats the win, to me 😐

Oh I forgot you gave Batman gadgets.

As for me not wanting to give you the win, I don't care about Batman or you, so I really don't care who wins or who you think wins.

The no weapons thing confuses me. Batman's suit itself is pretty much a weapon, I mean, the gauntlets have knives on them and the suit can take a Wonder Woman punch.

I always thought that Batman could manage to at least stalemate Captain America in a fight (without weapons or super serum that is), so with super serum my answer is obvious.

Originally posted by Soljer
It makes the subject peak human. That's it. If Spiderman were given the SSS, his physical abilities wouldn't actually change at all.

Case in point: Venom.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Mind you, if Cap were bitten by a radioactive spider, he would be certainly stronger than Parker, so that might not actually be true.

Case in point: Venom.

That's not the same thing.

SSS brings a person up to peak human potential, nothing more.

If Cap were bitten by the same spider as Peter then you're right, potentially he could be stronger, but that is not similar to what he is trying to express.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Mind you, if Cap were bitten by a radioactive spider, he would be certainly stronger than Parker, so that might not actually be true.

Case in point: Venom.

As mindset noted, you're comparing apples to oranges.

The spider bite is not the same thing as the SSS. One, seemingly, multiplies attributes, the other takes the subject to a pre-set level.

Originally posted by Soljer
As mindset noted, you're comparing apples to oranges.

The spider bite is not the same thing as the SSS. One, seemingly, multiplies attributes, the other takes the subject to a pre-set level.

I'm comparing the processes of:

Human + SSS = X2
X2 + Spiderbite = ?

To

Human + Spiderbite = Y2
Y2 + SSS = ?

We know that the former will make something far greater than X2.

The question is if the latter would make something far greater than Y2. Not knowing if the Super Soldier Serum could enhance Parker's stats regardless of timing of application means that your earlier statement is in no way indubitable.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
I'm not comparing the SSS to the spider bite.

I'm comparing the processes of:

Human + SSS = X2
X2 + Spiderbite = ?

To

Human + Spiderbite = Y2
Y2 + SSS = ?

We know that the former will make something far greater than X2.

The question is if the latter would make something far greater than Y2. Not knowing if the Super Soldier Serum could enhance Parker's stats regardless of timing of application means that your earlier statement is in no way indubitable.

Sure we do. The stats of the individual before the application of the SSS never made a difference.

The stats of the individual before the spider-amp has made a difference.

Originally posted by Soljer
Sure we do. The stats of the individual [b]before the application of the SSS never made a difference.

The stats of the individual before the spider-amp has made a difference. [/B]

I wouldn't say that he's superhuman w/SSS. What I'm saying is Batman in my opinion is a all around more complete fighter. If Cap takes on a superhuman and defeated them. He is not required to push himself as hard because is has so much to fall back on. I understand that Cap wouldn't be who he is without the serum. But there are factors that come into play in this battle. Normally, Cap would rely on his stamina to overcome Batman because that's the only way he would truly beat him. And Batman would have to push a lot harder to keep up with Cap. If you take away the SSS from Cap or give Batman the same thing. Would he no longer need to push himself as hard? Yes, But that is not in Batman's character, he would put in the same effort w/SSS as he would without. And considering all of Batman's feats, he would have push himself over his limit to even achieve most of what he does.

Originally posted by Soljer
Batman vs. Captain America in hand to hand - Cap, 8/10.

So you think Batman would lose 8 times out of 10, ridiculous. people can talk about how fast Cap can adapt all they want. Do understand that it would take more than one life time to master 127 MA styles. Batman did it in a little over ten years. His adaptability his very high. This why Cap and Batman were able match each other move for move in their fights. Batman rely on nothing but himself. Even his gadgets are a product of his grate mind. Batman would not lose 8/10. It would be Draw if anything. But w/SSS Batman takes it.

Originally posted by Mindset
Oh I forgot you gave Batman gadgets.

As for me not wanting to give you the win, I don't care about Batman or you, so I really don't care who wins or who you think wins.

Give me the win 😕 I'm not Batman and you don't have to care about me or Batman. But you will have to face facts. Cap's stamina was his trump card, not anymore. Batman is very capable of defeating him.

Batman prevails

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Give me the win 😕 I'm not Batman and you don't have to care about me or Batman. But you will have to face facts. Cap's stamina was his trump card, not anymore. Batman is very capable of defeating him.

I'm sorry, I thought you thought you were Batman so I was just going along with it. 😛

Yes, Cap's stamina was his trump card, which would allow him to win, now that Batman's stamina is the same it would be a stalemate...this is with only hth fighting though, not weapons.

Originally posted by Marvelknight

Do understand that it would take more than one life time to master 127 MA styles. Batman did it in a little over ten years.

127 styles in ten years, or every style on Earth in six months...

Cap had already mastered every form of combat by the time he was in WWII. 😉.