Batman w/Super Solider Serum vs. Captain America

Batman for the majority

Here we have batman equal in all matters SSS.
Now we are allowing weapons(as per thread starter)
there is no doubt in my mind both would win some matches.....but i also have no doubt that batman will get around the shield with gases and or throwing weapons, he could even electrocute himself and cap(cap uses chain mail still?) and we know bats has a insulated suit.............i just dont see cap wanting a win more than bats also...but this is my opinion and i say

Batman 7/10

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So Cap had forgotten everything. You dont actually know what stage Bruce was it but he would at least be at the beginning of his career and Cap would still have more experience.

Bruce was already Batman by the time they found Cap. And your statement about Cap have more experience is absolutely stupid, how does he have more experience when he frozen for more than over a decade. And it would mean nothing anyway, because he doesn't have more experience the Ra' Al Ghul or his father. Batman defeated a lot of MA masters with more experience than him. So sorry, that's not a factor.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
What does that prove. It proves that Batman can beat Cap thats all, but the links above show that Cap will probably beat Batman for the majority.

Sorry, I'm not stupid all to fall for your nonsense. Your scans prove nothing. And do you even know what word "conceivably" means. It mean it possible not definite. Batman said the same thing Shiva. Does that mean she can beat him for the majority too? No. All you have shown is that with out the serum, Batman is capable of going toe to toe with him nothing more. The fact of the matter is that no matter how many scans you post of theirs fights. You will never see Cap doing anything close to what he has shown fighting other top tire fighter from Marvel. And most of them have some kind of enhancement. Batman has nothing but his sheer willpower, skill, and concentration.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Anyway that was back in WW2.

exactly, decades before Bruce became Batman. That's a fact, Batman is no where near Cap or Wolverine's age. Back then, Cap and Wolverine fought together.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So you think Caps showings contradict what was said? Even if it is a random statement Cap is one of those characters who tend not to exaggerate and say what they mean so we can assume hes telling the truth.

Yes, it's complete contradiction. And if not, Batman wouldn't even be able to do what he has shown against Cap and yet Cap defeat prometheus (who at one time defeated Batman, easily) with no problem. But all he can do is stalemate Batman. What does that tell you?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
This is just adding what Brubaker said about Batman and Cap. Brubaker as far as I know has written for both Cap and Batman.

And yet their fights end in a stalemate every time except for DC/Marvel crossover. And Brubaker is right, Cap isn't nothing like Batman. Because if he was, he wouldn't need the serum at all. All it gives him over Batman, is almost limitless stamina, useless. It not even his skill that puts him over nor his agility, speed, and strength. That's a fact, Because you never see Cap over powering Batman or being too fast for him to counter or block his moves.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
wow thats pretty damn good Phantom zone. I thought this debate was gonna be long and annoying but hey you just one shotted them lol. *high five*

Sorry, this debate is far from over.....

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Of course there is stuff to disagree with silly, for i will not bother with this debate if i didn't disagree as much as i do with you.

The bats does not have what it takes to be Cap. With the serum he would be on even terms with cap.

If that was the case they would have never stalemated. You talk nonsense, And can prove that Batman has what it takes to beat him....

Batman didn't have the serum when he this...

Strength

http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img114&image=baton25yx.jpg
http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img114&image=baton32ll.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdftx3.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfvb9.jpg

Agility/speed/reaction time

http://img43.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img43&image=batwist10qh.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img43&image=batwist26vz.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img43&image=batwist36fs.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=detectivecomics577199ik.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img9&image=batagile63lb.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfon3.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfmb0.jpg

http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfhl8.jpg

http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdffl2.jpg

Durability

http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfaa3.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfmt4.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfte3.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=23ph0.jpg

http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img36&image=scan00042an.jpg
http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img36&image=scan00052nb.jpg
http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img36&image=scan00061zx.jpg

http://img1.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc75&image=d59ae_batbury1.jpg

http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img103&image=batotem12hi.jpg
http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img103&image=batotem21zt.jpg

Fighting skill

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmandarkvictory01page394yl.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batmandarkvictory01page409be.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfjv7.jpg
http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfyq0.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfcb2.jpg

http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfiv2.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfcv2.jpg

http://img140.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc288&image=67204_batdimak.jpg

Here we see a young Batman defeat Haim in a hand to hand contest by blocking the hungry cobra death strike a move that only 7 people in the world know how defend against.

http://img11.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc268&image=216_bathaim6.jpg
http://img46.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc44&image=795_bathaim7.jpg
http://img21.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc11&image=31c_bathaim8.jpg
http://img16.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc276&image=115_bathaim9.jpg

http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfea0.jpg
http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfug1.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfdv5.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfjk7.jpg
http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfxf8.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfom5.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/pic015.jpg

http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfye8.jpg
http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfvl0.jpg

http://img5.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc299&image=d8a_batpalm.jpg

Batman faces the leader of an Elite Commando charged with taking Gotham vigilantes out. Said leader is good, described by Bats as an "expert in hand to hand combat that hits like a truck", but the Dark Knight still ends up manhandling him (Batman: Outlaws #3)

http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batoutlaw337gm2.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batoutlaw338he9.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batoutlaw339qg6.jpg
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batoutlaw342vj7.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batoutlaw344gw0.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batoutlaw345uz2.jpg

Stalemates Bronze Tiger until he's taken down by a traquilizer dart. Bronze Tiger is recongized as one of the premier martial artist on earth he's responsible for training the legendary martial artist Richard Dragon. (Detective Comics #485)

http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc155&image=d6a_batiger1.jpg
http://img44.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc167&image=e18_batiger2.jpg
http://img14.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc90&image=1b4_batiger3.jpg
http://img40.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc151&image=7c3_batiger4.jpg
http://img23.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc185&image=3bf_batiger5.jpg

Weapons skills

http://img64.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sreflexesep6.jpg

http://img114.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img114&image=batmark57ty.jpg

http://img114.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img114&image=batmark66sv.jpg

http://img155.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img155&image=batmark74sg.jpg
http://img155.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img155&image=batmark89ww.jpg

http://img155.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img155&image=batmark98ms.jpg

http://img155.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img155&image=batmark119sa.jpg

http://img155.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img155&image=batmark103jx.jpg

http://img28.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img28&image=batmark146ho.jpg

Batman without the serum is very capable doing everything similar to Cap's feats. And any battle of Cap with DD, Spider-Man, Black Panther, Wolverine or anyone else posted in a defense to my scans, will prove nothing at all. That fact is that, in Batman and Cap battles, Cap never defeated him or had the upper hand. Batman with the serum is very capable of defeating Cap, hands down.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
There it is, thanks

Keyword being "virtually" and cap on the other hand cap mastered "every" martial arts adds to my case on how cap is better then bats and with the sss i guess bats can stalemate but its only a maybe.

don't talk nonsense Cap Hasn't mastered Wakanda martial arts

I guest this debate is over, Batman ftw 💃

Originally posted by Marvelknight

Sorry, I'm not stupid all to fall for your nonsense. Your scans prove nothing. And do you even know what word "conceivably" means. It mean it possible not definite.

No please use some common sense obvoulsy the writers are trying to say that Batman will lose to Cap eventually. Heres what the writer had to say about that incident.

Originally posted by brainchild81

Kurt wrote:
To my eye, that's about as close as Batman can come to admitting defeat out loud. But to each his own. Anyone wants to think Superman just got in a lucky shot, or Batman was lying ... well, these are stories, and they happen in between the printed page and the audience's minds. So it goes.

Unfortunately I cant find the actual quote and im going to try and get it from Silent Master I think ive actually seen the quote before but now its not working.

So there you have it. Brubaker has written for Batman and Cap and says Cap is superior and Kurt the guy who wrote JLA vs Avenegers said that Cap was superior.

Without SSS pure H2H Batman loses.
With SSS pure H2H its a draw
with SSS and weapons Batman wins.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No please use some common sense obvoulsy the writers are trying to say that Batman will lose to Cap eventually. Heres what the writer had to say about that incident.

My common sense is just fine. Just because you have different opinion doesn't change the meaning the word "conceivably". Common sense and a dictionary would tell you that. And common sense would also tell you that Batman would defeat him h2h or otherwise with the SSS. Because he stalemates him without it, as seen in all of their fights. It's very sad that you can't admit that Cap can and would be defeated by Batman, as if he is unbeatable. So by your logic you must think that Cap is better than Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, King Snake, Cain, Shiva and Karate Kid (who Batman has done more than hold his own against). Batman wins here, hands down. And in h2h he wins also, all he ever needed was time in first place.

im not gonna bother cutting and pasting (just aint my style) your stuff marvelknight im just gonna write normally and hopefully i can convey to you what i am saying.

You talk of batman experience and vast knowledge and then I say cap learns fast and he to has lots of experience then you say experience doesnt matter. Becuase batman has beaten lots of people with moire experience then him experience argument can be thrown out the window i rather it not but you seem to have abandon it.

Cap learns fast and meaning his experience in a shorter amount of period is equal to what a person say like batman despite his genius level the SSS has advanced caps mind to be capable of this.

As for your accomplishment of batman and his ability to fight people with enhancements and/or meta humans in other words. CAp has also fought people that he should not have a chance with or people who have vast powers and enhacement because he to has the unshakeable willpower strength and determination. His strength and speed should not have taken on iron man or hulk (not saying he beat them but he went toe to toe with people stronger faster and pretty over all enhanced.

So based on a fight that you acknowledge that cap was able to beat prometheus when batman couldnt and yet they stalemate. You have to say that the fight between cap and prometheus is BS and that there is no way for cap to beat someone bats can't... sounds a lil unfair.

I think Bats might get the advantage with weapons with SSS maybe 6/10 but not for the reasons you are stating for why cap would lose tho. I seldomly agree with some of your reasons why bats might win.

in the scan it said he was adept at all ma so don't argue with me man its plain as day

It is possible that cap is better at some things that bats is not and bats is better at some things cap is not, this would be a logical cause.

You should refrain from thinking cap is seperate from SSS. Argueing about cap without the sss and comparing him to bats is a unreasonable. Its like saying okay hulk plus gamma radiation vs superman. Like wtf its assumed that gamma radiation is a given with hulk i mean without it he just be banner fighting superman. So cap is very much like Bats why else would people debate about them for so long why else would writers write awesome fights about them they are so similar that that is why we are talking about them because they are just so close.

THe SSS does more for cap then just physically it makes his mind function at a higher level. Stamina is not useless and i also don't think its the only thing seperating the 2 heroes. With stamina I can work out for ever with stamina I would be able to never fatigue you know how amazing that would be in ironman races or marathons. Have ever been in combat. Fighting for 20 mins is takes alot of exertion and stamina. Without stamina your muscles would cramp up and get exhausted and we wont be able to do anything. Yeah i would say stamina is pretty damn useful.

I think Bats can beat Cap. With his equipment and the injection of the SSS. But without the SSS, cap would beat bats in any fight with exception of giving bats prep. MAny writers agree that Cap is BAt's superior.

We seem to all agree on one thing Bats+equipment+SSS > Cap.

before all this continues and this goes fro everyone try and avoid condescending language i lets keep it clean it makes the debate far more enjoyable.

Originally posted by Lord Feron

We seem to all agree on one thing Bats+equipment+SSS > Cap.

Yes. 👆

Originally posted by Lord Feron
im not gonna bother cutting and pasting (just aint my style) your stuff marvelknight im just gonna write normally and hopefully i can convey to you what i am saying.

You talk of batman experience and vast knowledge and then I say cap learns fast and he to has lots of experience then you say experience doesnt matter. Becuase batman has beaten lots of people with moire experience then him experience argument can be thrown out the window i rather it not but you seem to have abandon it.

Cap learns fast and meaning his experience in a shorter amount of period is equal to what a person say like batman despite his genius level the SSS has advanced caps mind to be capable of this.

As for your accomplishment of batman and his ability to fight people with enhancements and/or meta humans in other words. CAp has also fought people that he should not have a chance with or people who have vast powers and enhacement because he to has the unshakeable willpower strength and determination. His strength and speed should not have taken on iron man or hulk (not saying he beat them but he went toe to toe with people stronger faster and pretty over all enhanced.

So based on a fight that you acknowledge that cap was able to beat prometheus when batman couldnt and yet they stalemate. You have to say that the fight between cap and prometheus is BS and that there is no way for cap to beat someone bats can't... sounds a lil unfair.

I think Bats might get the advantage with weapons with SSS maybe 6/10 but not for the reasons you are stating for why cap would lose tho. I seldomly agree with some of your reasons why bats might win.

in the scan it said he was adept at all ma so don't argue with me man its plain as day

It is possible that cap is better at some things that bats is not and bats is better at some things cap is not, this would be a logical cause.

You should refrain from thinking cap is seperate from SSS. Argueing about cap without the sss and comparing him to bats is a unreasonable. Its like saying okay hulk plus gamma radiation vs superman. Like wtf its assumed that gamma radiation is a given with hulk i mean without it he just be banner fighting superman. So cap is very much like Bats why else would people debate about them for so long why else would writers write awesome fights about them they are so similar that that is why we are talking about them because they are just so close.

THe SSS does more for cap then just physically it makes his mind function at a higher level. Stamina is not useless and i also don't think its the only thing seperating the 2 heroes. With stamina I can work out for ever with stamina I would be able to never fatigue you know how amazing that would be in ironman races or marathons. Have ever been in combat. Fighting for 20 mins is takes alot of exertion and stamina. Without stamina your muscles would cramp up and get exhausted and we wont be able to do anything. Yeah i would say stamina is pretty damn useful.

I think Bats can beat Cap. With his equipment and the injection of the SSS. But without the SSS, cap would beat bats in any fight with exception of giving bats prep. MAny writers agree that Cap is BAt's superior.

We seem to all agree on one thing Bats+equipment+SSS > Cap.

before all this continues and this goes fro everyone try and avoid condescending language i lets keep it clean it makes the debate far more enjoyable.

Writers, you, or anyone else can talk about how superior Cap is all you want. The fact is that all of their fights end in "STALEMATE", without the serum. How many times has Batman heard that from someone? I'm physically superior, I'm more experienced, I'm faster, I'm stronger, and they still get their ass handed to them. Aqua Man is physically superior to Bat's, more so than Cap. That didn't stop him from getting his ass whipped, did it. And when has Cap ever made a god bleed?

I believe what writers say hold much weight in many debates. They should be very knowledgeable of the comic character they are writing about.

Cap would not say all that jazz against Bats because that isnt his character to brag about how much better he is, because he makes shi* happen.

You comparing how great Batman is over cap and yet you keep on saying they stalemate. So for every thing you say or try to prove cap is automatically just as good and can make the same exact task work.

Like i said before Bats has come qualitites that he is good and and so does Cap.

C'mon you think a man even as great as batman is should make a god bleed (pis) ? ANyway Cap has also fought super powered villians before who were vastly superior to him but yet he wins to!

Do we agree with said calculation? Batman + equipment +SSS > Cap That is the thread topic and that is what we should debate about. It should not lead to a debate with Bat vs Cap w/ standard equipment. I already did that look it up its quite lengthy.

IF you don't agree with said math then this debate should continue.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I believe what writers say hold much weight in many debates. They should be very knowledgeable of the comic character they are writing about.

Cap would not say all that jazz against Bats because that isnt his character to brag about how much better he is, because he makes shi* happen.

You comparing how great Batman is over cap and yet you keep on saying they stalemate. So for every thing you say or try to prove cap is automatically just as good and can make the same exact task work.

Like i said before Bats has come qualitites that he is good and and so does Cap.

C'mon you think a man even as great as batman is should make a god bleed (pis) ? ANyway Cap has also fought super powered villians before who were vastly superior to him but yet he wins to!

Do we agree with said calculation? Batman + equipment +SSS > Cap That is the thread topic and that is what we should debate about. It should not lead to a debate with Bat vs Cap w/ standard equipment. I already did that look it up its quite lengthy.

IF you don't agree with said math then this debate should continue.

I see you still can't answer my Question. All I get is pis, oh that's great debating skills. And in-spite of all the writer's and Cap's comments about how much better he is compare Batman. He wasn't skilled enough to end the battle earlier before Batman got tired. That is because Batman is too good for Cap to do so and thus, he must wait (if Batman doesn't get the drop on him before hand) for Batman to tire for him to have a chance of beating him. And that's in a h2h situation without weapons. With the serum Batman w/or without weapons can defeat him.

So you don't believe in my math because by continue this debate you don't think Bats+Equipment+SSS > Cap. Are you saying this???? you are the person not answering me! I think i brought this up many times already.

So you think its well within a man's ability to punch a skyfatehr say in the face and make him bleed. Idk what incident you are talking about but hell sure a normal human being as mighty as a human being can be should not be able to punch a god and im talking odin level and make him bleed, i mean if you believe that shi* is a routine thing that batman does and no BS is involved then im am in trouble. Im in trouble because for someone to believe such a ludicrus notion is beyond me. I thought i already said the BS feats that should not be within the reach of batman are canon or something because all chracters have feats that seem to be out of rea ch or over the top but we can use the exception as the rule!

I'm sure you think the bat kick is standard to or how batman takes punches from superman and then people claim that Batman can take superman level punches lol.

I digress. PLease one more time i will ask you...THe thread says

" Batman w/Super Solider Serum vs. Captain America

No prep.

Weapons are permitted.

Who wins?"

I say yes Batman with the SSS and the Weapons will beat Cap.

Answer that, because we arent arguing whati think you are trying to argue "Bats+SSS>Cap" strictly h2h no equipment, no weapons (Sheild, batsuit, chainmail, etc). This is not what we are debating about.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
So you don't believe in my math because by continue this debate you don't think Bats+Equipment+SSS > Cap. Are you saying this???? you are the person not answering me! I think i brought this up many times already.

So you think its well within a man's ability to punch a skyfatehr say in the face and make him bleed. Idk what incident you are talking about but hell sure a normal human being as mighty as a human being can be should not be able to punch a god and im talking odin level and make him bleed, i mean if you believe that shi* is a routine thing that batman does and no BS is involved then im am in trouble. Im in trouble because for someone to believe such a ludicrus notion is beyond me. I thought i already said the BS feats that should not be within the reach of batman are canon or something because all chracters have feats that seem to be out of rea ch or over the top but we can use the exception as the rule!

I'm sure you think the bat kick is standard to or how batman takes punches from superman and then people claim that Batman can take superman level punches lol.

I digress. PLease one more time i will ask you...THe thread says

" Batman w/Super Solider Serum vs. Captain America

No prep.

Weapons are permitted.

Who wins?"

I say yes Batman with the SSS and the Weapons will beat Cap.

Answer that, because we arent arguing whati think you are trying to argue "Bats+SSS>Cap" strictly h2h no equipment, no weapons (Sheild, batsuit, chainmail, etc). This is not what we are debating about.

Yes I do, as if you even have to ask me in the first place. Because I think he would even without the serum. You just can't admit that Cap supposed superiority over Batman is BS and that he really can't defeat Bats, if that was the case. He wouldn't need to wait for him to tire himself to do so. Why not end the battle early? Because he can't. You can't admit that Batman to too dam good for him to beat him out right. For someone who is so superior, Why would he even need to wait, as if he's battling a meta human? Answer that .

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Yes I do, as if you even have to ask me in the first place. Because I think he would even without the serum. You just can't admit that Cap supposed superiority over Batman is BS and that he really can't defeat Bats, if that was the case. He wouldn't need to wait for him to tire himself to do so. Why not end the battle early? Because he can't. You can't admit that Batman to too dam good for him to beat him out right. For someone who is so superior, Why would he even need to wait, as if he's battling a meta human? Answer that .

Brilliant post mate. 👆

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Brilliant post mate. 👆

😉

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Yes I do, as if you even have to ask me in the first place. Because I think he would even without the serum. You just can't admit that Cap supposed superiority over Batman is BS and that he really can't defeat Bats, if that was the case. He wouldn't need to wait for him to tire himself to do so. Why not end the battle early? Because he can't. You can't admit that Batman to too dam good for him to beat him out right. For someone who is so superior, Why would he even need to wait, as if he's battling a meta human? Answer that .

Looks like you want to argue Bat + equipment > Cap + equipment

WE have shown proof oh what cap is capable, we have shown writers who write for both characters acknoledge that cap is bat's superior, we have shown the experience angle and agrued that and to that end, they seem to be no major difference between the two. And we would posts scans of fight but you have said in the past no matter what we post you don't care, which isnt fair thats pretty much like shutting your ears and saying lalalalala.

If the SSS did not offer any advantage over a human being then whats big deal about the SSS anyway. If it doesn't give you any advancements but only makes you a fine human specimen then SSS would actually do nothing for batman because you said he is already peak human. If u believe that cap has no superior attributes to batman then I guess Bats would be no better then Cap mean that it would be a everlasting stalemate. This is what i have concluded using your thought process and position. This is by no means a reflection of my beliefs.

I can't admit something that I don't think is true!

How do you get off at saying bats is too damn good that like me saying "no way cap is way to good for bats to beat cap" its not a good way to debate. You are telling me that cap is in no way superior to bats in any form !!! (rubbish)

Yes Bruce Wayne has acheived the next step in evolution of man by training alot and working out religiously please just..just don't. JUst nonsense.

He doesn't need to wait it just that batman is good enough to stave off defeat for a while. Eventually bats won't be able to take it anymore and he will be defeated. yes stamina could be a contributing factor to the fight but its not the only thing. If it was the only thing Bats would be a talentless loser who happen to have unlimited stamina quite easily.

I suggest you take what you can get which is me admiting that bat + Equipment + SSS > cap because that all your gonna get and thats all you need considering the thread topic has been debated and decided. continue in another posts but i don't feel like debating this forever when we already agreed on a judgment.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
WE have shown proof oh what cap is capable, we have shown writers who write for both characters acknoledge that cap is bat's superior, we have shown the experience angle and agrued that and to that end, they seem to be no major difference between the two.

If there is no "major" difference, why mention that Cap is superior. You're contradicting yourself. And the writers opinion's contradict what happens on panel.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
And we would posts scans of fight but you have said in the past no matter what we post you don't care, which isnt fair that's pretty much like shutting your ears and saying lalalalala.

It's not that I don't care. The fact is that Cap and Batman have had fights already, any scans of Cap fighting someone else, only proves just how much batter Batman is compared to Cap's other opponents. Since he has not done anything but stalemate Bats. His other fights don't change what happens in his fights with Batman.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
If the SSS did not offer any advantage over a human being then whats big deal about the SSS anyway. If it doesn't give you any advancements but only makes you a fine human specimen then SSS would actually do nothing for batman because you said he is already peak human.

What's sad is that Cap is superior, but when you compared what he does to other Marvel street-levelers and what he has shown fighting Bats. His physical superiority, isn't really that big of a factor that most people think it is. That fact that Batman could stalemate him with all of Cap advantages plus his fighting skills. Leads me to believe that with serum (which give him an almost near limitless stamina) he would defeat him.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
How do you get off at saying bats is too damn good that like me saying "no way cap is way to good for bats to beat cap" its not a good way to debate. You are telling me that cap is in no way superior to bats in any form !!! (rubbish)

Because he dose a lot better against other top tier fighter from Marvel, some with enhancements and powers that Batman does not possess. So he should have no problem taking down a human with no enhancements or powers, right? 🙄

Originally posted by Lord Feron
Yes Bruce Wayne has acheived the next step in evolution of man by training alot and working out religiously please just..just don't. JUst nonsense.

And yet he stalemates someone who is "the next step in evolution of man".

Originally posted by Lord Feron
He doesn't need to wait it just that batman is good enough to stave off defeat for a while. Eventually bats won't be able to take it anymore and he will be defeated.

😆 Give credit when it's due. And You mean that Batman is good to be defeat by "the next step in evolution of man" too easily.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
yes stamina could be a contributing factor to the fight but its not the only thing. If it was the only thing Bats would be a talentless loser who happen to have unlimited stamina quite easily.

Another contradicting as you have already said before ....

Originally posted by Lord Feron
they seem to be no major difference between the two.

And about Bats being a talentless loser who happen to have unlimited stamina. That could be said about a man who has shown he his skills fighting DD (who has superhuman senses and reflexes), Spider-Man (who is by far more superior than Cap or Bats), and Wolverine (who has a HF and Adamantium-laced skeletal structure with retractable claws) and doing very well against them. But all he can do is stalemate a human who he is "superior" to.

Originally posted by Lord Feron
I suggest you take what you can get which is me admiting that bat + Equipment + SSS > cap because that all your gonna get and that's all you need considering the thread topic has been debated and decided.

What I get is great pleasure form your inability to admit that Batman is capable of beating h2h w/o the serum. And in that regard you no argument. Because I've proved your inability to debate or face facts. You have been completely owned.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Batman didn't have the serum when he this...

Strength

http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img114&image=baton25yx.jpg
http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img114&image=baton32ll.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdftx3.jpg

http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfvb9.jpg

Agility/speed/reaction time

http://img43.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img43&image=batwist10qh.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img43&image=batwist26vz.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img43&image=batwist36fs.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=detectivecomics577199ik.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img9&image=batagile63lb.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfon3.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfmb0.jpg

http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfhl8.jpg

http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdffl2.jpg

Durability

http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfaa3.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfmt4.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=asdfte3.jpg

http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=23ph0.jpg

http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img36&image=scan00042an.jpg
http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img36&image=scan00052nb.jpg
http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img36&image=scan00061zx.jpg

http://img1.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc75&image=d59ae_batbury1.jpg

http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img103&image=batotem12hi.jpg
http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?loc=img103&image=batotem21zt.jpg

Strength

Snapping chains
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1435/11vq0.jpg

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6431/46tx9.jpg

Bending a Palm Tree
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9980/avengersv100719qf9.jpg

Breaking down a steel door while injured
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3251/camedusaeffect048ru4.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1717/camedusaeffect049cm8.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6880/camedusaeffect050rx9.jpg

Holding up the ruble of a collapsed building with one arm
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8730/captainamerica228aserpeym8.jpg
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/41/captainamerica229traitoup4.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6254/captainamerica229traitook2.jpg

Snapping a rifle in half
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1246/captainamerica231aftermub0.jpg

Breaking out of cryogenic freezing
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/5465/captainamerica444hopeanmj2.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5470/captainamerica445operatdl8.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5818/captainamerica445operathr0.jpg

Benching 1,100 lbs
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5200/captainamerica402manandgq6.jpg

Lifting a fallen tree over his head
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/9580/secretdefenders0703hv8.jpg

Speed/Agility/Reaction time

Coming between an attacking vigilante and his target
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7075/page19zb5.jpg
http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6884/page20gq8.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7030/page21hf3.jpg

Blitz’s a thug before he can press a button
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/4010/17ed4.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2521/18bb8.jpg

Saving a damsel in distress before the villain holding her can react
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5387/sd814kr7.jpg

Keeping pace with his shield after it’s thrown
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8664/avengersannual11198209gv5.jpg

Intercepting a rocket after it’s fired
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/6189/09bj1.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/6628/10nf0.jpg

Cap’s speed is compared to classic Quicksilver’s
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2493/avengers03720jz9.jpg

Saving a little boy from being run down
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6880/captainamerica228aserpean9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2117/captainamerica228aserpeyg0.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/1796/captainamerica228aserpels1.jpg

Cap’s faster than Daredevil(who’s speed feats are right on par with Batman’s)
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4769/daredevil23314xd6.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8314/daredevil23315oy1.jpg

Dodging multiple energy blast and projectiles simultaneously
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/3664/avengersv305accusationmcc8.jpg

Dodging Modred in Captain Britain’s body
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4130/captainamerica306thesumyq6.jpg

Breaks free of a shackle and catches a spear inches from Zemo’s face
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/239/captainamerica359bloodsle0.jpg

Cap can run a mile in just over a minute(so he can run nearly 60 mph) and sustain that speed for a 5 mile stretch
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/6484/ca01008do2.jpg

Cap can see bullets in flight
http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=capdamanta2.jpg

Durability

Here Cap takes multiple shots from his own shield no problem(WITHOUT his chain mail)
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3838/marvelfanfare0527mk7.jpg
http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/7567/marvelfanfare0528pp0.jpg

Overcomes electrocution
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/750/captainamericav303919wb2.jpg
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1694/captainamericav303920nj9.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7720/captainamericav303921kd7.jpg

Survives an explosion without his shield(Cap gets KO’d but he was right next to the bomb)
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4089/punishercaptainamericabwh7.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5053/punishercaptainamericabmi4.jpg

Survives and recovers from being shot in the head
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9008/captainamericathefalconhq7.jpg
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/8545/captainamericathefalconsv3.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9118/captainamericaandthefalza4.jpg

Even with all those feats you post to prove that Cap is superior. He is still only capable of stalemating Batman.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Even with all those feats you post to prove that Cap is superior. He is still only capable of stalemating Batman.

Don't get me wrong I think that Bat's can split an even 5/10 with Cap under normal circumstances but that's because of Batman's more versatile equipment, not his ability to match Cap physically(which he can't do).