Batman w/Super Solider Serum vs. Captain America

Originally posted by darthgoober
Bat acknowledged Cap's likelihood of winning based solely on skill(since he never actually saw Cap's enhanced physicality at work) so that's what the "stalemate"(as you call it) was based on, the difference between their relative strength/speed/durability was never touched on in the encounter.

Don't get me wrong I think that Bat's can split an even 5/10 with Cap under normal circumstances but that's because of Batman's more versatile equipment, not his ability to match Cap physically(which he can't do).

So do you think Batman can win this with the SS serum + weapons ?

Originally posted by Faceman
So do you think Batman can win this with the SS serum + weapons ?

Cap vs Bats= 5/10 either way
Cap vs Bat's (H2H)= Cap 8/10
Cap vs Bats w/SSS= Bats 8/10
Cap vs Bats w/SSS (H2H)= 5/10 either way

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sure. Bat's and Cap are on the same level skill wise(with any difference being to minuscule to matter) and has a much more diverse arsenal at his disposal. With Cap's level of physical ability dodging Cap's shield and countering with something nasty from his utility belt before the shield returns shouldn't be that difficult. I pretty much agree with Soljer's assessment.

Cap vs Bats= 5/10 either way
Cap vs Bat's (H2H)= Cap 8/10
Cap vs Bats w/SSS= Bats 8/10
Cap vs Bats w/SSS (H2H)= 5/10 either way

How could anyone disagree with that. 😉

Originally posted by darthgoober
Bat acknowledged Cap's likelihood of winning based solely on skill(since he never actually saw Cap's enhanced physicality at work) so that's what the "stalemate"(as you call it) was based on, the difference between their relative strength/speed/durability was never touched on in the encounter.

Don't get me wrong I think that Bat's can split an even 5/10 with Cap under normal circumstances but that's because of Batman's more versatile equipment, not his ability to match Cap physically(which he can't do).

I hope you know and understand that Batman's versatility doesn't just stop at his gadgets and weapons. And we both know that they can go for a long time, fighting each other. Their battle in the DC/Marvel crossover, was a draw through out most of it and they were fighting for hours. Though their battle may have been fan voted, it is still more than possible that it would at least go down that way except for the end. Because I believe that Cap's stamina would eventually out last Batman's. I think it's fair to say that it would "possibly" take Batman much longer than his stamina can last to beat Cap. And that, in-spite of Cap's "physical superiority" he isn't capable of beating Batman at his best (full of energy and far from fatigued).

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I hope you know and understand that Batman's versatility doesn't just stop at his gadgets and weapons. And we both know that they can go for a long time, fighting each other. Their battle in the DC/Marvel crossover, was a draw through out most of it and they were fighting for hours. Though their battle may have been fan voted, it is still more than possible that it would at least go down that way except for the end. Because I believe that Cap's stamina would eventually out last Batman's. I think it's fair to say that it would "possibly" take Batman much longer than his stamina can last to beat Cap. And that, in-spite of Cap's "physical superiority" he isn't capable of beating Batman at his best (full of energy and far from fatigued).

Originally posted by darthgoober
I fail to see your point. My only issue was your saying that Batman is Cap's physical equal except for endurance(because he's not). I've already acknowledged that Batman's gadgets make up for that difference though which is why I say they each win 5/10 fights under normal circumstances.

I'm talking about their h2h skills as well, with out weapons. Because it also possible that Cap would be at some seperated from his shield, even under normal circumstances. And Cap's supposed superioirity is not a factor, only their staminas.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
I'm talking about their h2h skills as well, with out weapons. Because it also possible that Cap would be at some seperated from his shield, even under normal circumstances. And Cap's supposed superioirity is not a factor, only their staminas.

And yes being stronger, faster, and more durable DOES factor into it.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But I've also acknowledged that they're about equal in H2H skill as well. That's why I omitted the scans you posted in regards to Batman's fighting skills and only took issue with the statements regarding the two's relative physical ability. The only reason Cap takes a H2H fight between the two is because he's stronger, faster, more durable, and doesn't tire nearly as fast.

And yes being stronger, faster, and more durable DOES factor into it.

No, it's because he doesn't tire. He can out last Batman, not over power him nor will his speed, agility,and reflexes overwhelm Batman. That has already been proven in the scans I've posted. And most of all, he will not out fight Batman or not think him

Originally posted by Marvelknight
No, it's because he doesn't tire. He can out last Batman, not over power him nor will his speed, agility,and reflexes overwhelm Batman. That has already been proven in the scans I've posted.

Again you seem to be forgetting, when Batman acknowledged Cap's ability to beat him after an extended fight he was judging by skill alone, he had no idea that Cap's body doesn't produce lactic acids.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You honestly think that the scans you posted of Batman's physical feats are equal to the physical feats of Cap's that I posted?

Again you seem to be forgetting, when Batman acknowledged Cap's ability to beat him after an extended fight he was judging by skill alone, he had no idea that Cap's body doesn't produce lactic acids.

Has it ever been seen in any of their fights, that Cap is over powering Batman in any way? Has it ever been seen, that Cap 's speed, agility, and reflexes were too overwhelming for Batman? The only thing that can't hold up his Batman's stamina. Batman felt same way about Lady Shiva too, and he defeated her.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Has it ever been seen in any of their fights that Cap is over powering in anyway?

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Has it ever been seen that Cap 's speed, agility, and reflexes were too overwhelming for Batman? The only thing that can't hold up his Batman's stamina.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You honestly think that the scans you posted of Batman's physical feats are equal to the physical feats of Cap's that I posted?

Originally posted by darthgoober
You mean their ONLY fight right(since there's only one that's canon)? Of course that wasn't seen because Batman acknowledged Cap winning based solely off Cap's skill before he even saw what Cap was capable of physically. But in the same arc he DID take down Prometheus w/Batman's fighting skills fairly easily.

And yet he didn't defeat the originator of thoses skills, easily. Regardless of what Batman's opinion is (seeing as how he felt the same way about Lady Shiva), their fight never came to an end. And seeing how it was more difficult fighting Batman than it was Prometheus. There is no real way of saying for sure that Cap would have defeated Batman. Because there were other matters at hand, and Batman's goal was not to fight Cap. Even in the face of a very difficult fight ahead of him, Batman never gives up if his goal is to stop you.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
And yet he didn't defeat the originator of thoses skills, easily. Regardless of what Batman's opinion is (seeing as how he felt the same way about Lady Shiva), their fight never came to an end. And seeing how it was more difficult fighting Batman than it was Prometheus. There is no real way of saying for sure that Cap would have defeated Batman. Because there were other matters at hand, and Batman's goal was not to fight Cap. Even in the face of a very difficult fight ahead of him, Batman never gives up if his goal is to stop you.

Also...

Originally posted by darthgoober
You honestly think that the scans you posted of Batman's physical feats are equal to the physical feats of Cap's that I posted?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Your right we never saw what would have happened and Batman could have been wrong... so Batman's statement about the fight taking a long time doesn't mean that it would(it would probably last about as long as the fight between Cap and Prometheus if it really went down). But if you remember, they joined forces after a small fencing bout(rather than engage in an actual fight) so that accounts for the differences between the his match up with Batman and his beat down of Prometheus.

Also...

Originally posted by darthgoober
You honestly think that the scans you posted of Batman's physical feats are equal to the physical feats of Cap's that I posted?

Yes, most of them.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Your right we never saw what would have happened and Batman could have been wrong... so Batman's statement about the fight taking a long time doesn't mean that it would(it would probably last about as long as the fight between Cap and Prometheus if it really went down). But if you remember, they joined forces after a small fencing bout(rather than engage in an actual fight) so that accounts for the differences between the his match up with Batman and his beat down of Prometheus.

Not being bad but I think it obvoulsy was trying to indicate that Cap would win eventually due to his superior stats but in terms of skill they were equal, thats one of the reaons why Bats said it would take a very long time. He was just saying politely "if we fight im going to lose in the end" and thats what the writer said.

Originally posted by darthgoober
But in the same arc he DID take down Prometheus w/Batman's fighting skills fairly easily.

apples and oranges. Prometheus did not have intel on Marvel Fighting Styles in his databanks.

Whenever Prometheus has defeated a top tier MA he's downloaded their style or its nearest approximation beforehand

Prometheus ripping Shiva means that already he has a percentage of Batman's ability. In many instances They graduated at the same schools.

Cap was an anomaly for Prometheus who is only as good as his databanks. Faced with a threat originating outside his reality his software is simply not adaptive or responsive enough to make him a credible threat.

Originally posted by shiv
apples and oranges. Prometheus did not have intel on Marvel Fighting Styles in his databanks.

Something tells me that there would be not be a vast difference. I would assume that there isnt a big difference between kickboxing in the MU and DC.

Originally posted by darthgoober
You mean their ONLY fight right(since there's only one that's canon)? Of course that wasn't seen because Batman acknowledged Cap winning based solely off Cap's skill before he even saw what Cap was capable of physically. But in the same arc he DID take down Prometheus w/Batman's fighting skills fairly easily.

Because Batman leveled him in JLA/Avengers too.

Beating Prometheus or Taskmaster doesn't equate to beating the originals however.

However I agree with most of what you've said, until you implied beating Prometheus is like beating Batman, when it's not at all. iirc, even Green Arrow and Alfed the butler have downed Prometheus to date.

Originally posted by Juntai
Doesn't Taskmaster have Cap's skills?

Hes not enhanced though. We also dont know what fightign abilites he was using at the time, he doesnt always use Caps.

Originally posted by Juntai

However I agree with most of what you've said, until you implied beating Prometheus is like beating Batman, when it's not at all. iirc, even Green Arrow and Alfed the butler have downed Prometheus to date.

Was Promotheus using Batmans fighting abilties? Something tells me Alfred would have to use something to beat Promo.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Something tells me that there would be not be a vast difference.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Something tells me Alfred would have to use something to beat Promo.

Your source is Non Canon.