Gouki vs. Cloud

Then, instead of correcting yourself on the fact that Ryu was Ken’s main rival, you actually made an attempt to defend it; another example of your overzealousness. Even if you were clearly wrong you still couldn’t seem to admit to it.

If you’re not taking it seriously, then why are you taking so much umbrage from this so-called name calling from me?

You’re wrong again. You’re taking childish and angry in the same boat and acting like they’re equivalent. However, They’re two entirely different things. Saying that someone’s childish can be backed up, an accusation that someone else is angry cannot. Anger’s a state of mind, childish is an expressed attitude.

What on Earth is this? Terrible logic, just terrible.

You have no backup other than my choice of diction and my periodic using of capitals. Yes, that totally makes me angry, right? What a joke, honestly. Thing is, I NEED no proof, mainly because you cannot prove me wrong.

Lol, how pathetic...

You’re resorting to trolling now.
I said that I take any debate seriously, no matter what the subject content is. Anything wrong with that?

Lorewise = fictional historical facts, by definition.

Instead of a counter-strategy or any course of action for Cloud to the one for Gouki I had proposed beforehand….I get a ridiculous , poorly-thought out rebuttal. You just said that when I bring up things that actually matter (relevant to only the subject of the debate) you would be happy to concede or address them.

“Show me proof that you’re not childish” Ludicrous, honestly.

~Sado

Someone else brought it up earlier before you did, actually.

According to the canon materia, the island “disappeared” after Gouki struck it. The only logical explanation would be that it sunk. What other ways are there for it to “disappear”? It’s still regarded as a strength/durability feat, and that’s why I use it. Is there a problem with this?

I correct you on some of your usage of Cloud feats because they’re not in the correct context. For example, your usage of Cloud’s sword wielding as a speed feat when it was actually a strength feat. As far as I’m concerned he cannot slice a mountain in two, or sink an island with one punch.

You’re denying evidence right here? I never thought you’d sink this low.

I’ve repeatedly told you to watch the video on YouTube. It isn’t hard to find and you can quite clearly see what I’m talking about during the Omnislash.

Fact: Sephiroth was in the process of adjusting his grip to meet the Omnislash, indicating that he was PREPARING for the counter. He did not finish.

Fact: During the sequence when the blades spread out to surround Sephiroth in a “bullet time”-esque shot, you clearly see from his posture that he’s caught unprepared.

Okay, are you seriously bringing up faulty animation mechanics now?

Would you like me to go back and quote myself, in case you missed it or something the first time?

Lol, considering you’re ignoring or misunderstanding quite a lot of what I say, you’re in absolutely no position to tell me something like this.

And you were wrong.

As you can see, I’m not the least bit personally offended by that ridiculous accusation either.

That’s what you were being, in all honesty.

Really, you shouldn’t be so darn sensitive.

What it is really is forming an unsupported, hasty, naive assumption. Not that much better, if you ask me.

Since when did I have to rely on someone else to tell me how I’m feeling?

The point is, it’s not my burden of proof to show you anything regarding my current state of mind.

Stating otherwise, like I said, is assuming you know better about me and my emotions than myself. Over the internet, even.

As if this weren’t enough, you actually somehow have the audacity to demand proof for something as abstract as not being angry. There IS no proof. You can’t ask someone to prove they’re happy, sad, angry, jealous. It makes no sense, it can’t be done anyways.

I’ve told you already. If you were smart you would have dropped the subject completely instead of doing something outrageous like above.

No. Once again my points seem to have been a giant B-52 roaring right over your head. I said that Gouki would not see EXACTLY what is coming. However, when you see a man whirling a sword that begins to glow brighter, what else could it be but a very powerful attack?

See what I’m getting at here?
No matter whether Gouki knew exactly what the Omnislash consisted of or not, he’s still going to instinctively attempt to avoid it, and obviously it’s going to be much easier with his teleport.

No matter whether it’s instantaneous or just a intangible slow-ass teleport…he’d still avoid the Omnislash anyways.

do you have any other suggestions for the island “disappearing”?

Well, let’s see…you’re against a big man with a big sword and you start out at medium to long range. Tell me….what would be YOUR first course of action, were you in Gouki’s position? Stupidly charge in?

Yes, he is as, if not more durable, than steel.

When the water turns black, the enormous water pressure is easily enough to crush someone into paste.

I said they were slow enough to be seen as tracer fire, which puts them on speed par with bullets from an M68 machine gun.

shungokusatsu? Yes, it is quite capable of killing anybody who doesn’t counter it in time. It isn’t a physical move at all, he teleports them straight to Hell. Cloud is a bundle of emotion, despite being a good soul he wouldn’t be able to completely empty himself in spirit.
Gouki once said, “It is not my fist, but the sins of your past, that will destroy you.”(Something along those lines)

The normal hadouken isn’t, his EX-hadouken does. Ryu’s is the same, simply a toned down version.

20 feet away, 5 feet away…that’s quite a relevant distance considering that even with Cloud’s reflexes, after the trigger is pulled there is no way in hell he is going to be able to move to dodge a bullet at that distance. With 20 feet he has considerable more reaction time.

yes, I already mentioned the distraction hadoukens before.

to be continued

You’re armed with bare hands. Even if you know you’re insanely strong, do you let some guy with a huge wicked-looking broadsword get into slashing range? You’re making Gouki look like a complete idiot by even suggesting this.

Not without putting himself at risk.

Are you seriously implying that Cloud has unlimited Limit Breaks that he can use at any point in the battle?

Yes, if he stayed still during the chargeup and stayed still during the execution of the move itself...both of which I very, very highly doubt.

Lol, you’re accusing me of whining because I continue to mock you for a subject that you utterly failed at. Here, want a comfort blanket?
Pathetic, really.

Nice way to ignore the many times where I’ve said that he’s fast, just not as fast as you take him for.

and as you can quite clearly see now…unlike you, I am unbiased.

It’s like your new shield or something, you’ve thrown away things even if I’ve referred to undeniable proof.

He was adjusting his grip on the Masamune to prepare for the counterattack and centering his body to face Cloud properly. He got hit by the Omnislash just before he was ready.

He WAS laughing at Cloud was saying. The laugh itself does not automatically condone confidence, however.

which explains why you’ve ignored quite a lot of what I said…

there’s nothing wrong with my post, Sado.

~Sado

Oh god. The word quilts.

tell me about it. some people just don't know when to quit 😱

that was long enough 😬

that was long enough

OMG...Cloud loses so damn hard, he has NO FEATS over Akuma except speed and it isn't that much higher. Akuma can bust mountains, Clouds regular ass swords are no prollem.

the fact that this thread has lasted this long is ridiculous.

another job here...

cloud has no feats? what about smacking a dragon to the ground from the air, cut the steel effortlessly? did I heard nothing compared to gouki's feats? or maybe did I heard misogi? then what about cloud is much faster and could levitate. it's hard for gouki to match his speed. powerwise, I admit gouki is stronger. but that doesn't mean cloud is weak. let's see if gouki could use misogi after his hands were cut off.

also remember that akuma only split an ayers rock in half. 😬

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
another job here...

cloud has no feats? what about smacking a dragon to the ground from the air, cut the steel effortlessly? did I heard nothing compared to gouki's feats? or maybe did I heard misogi? then what about cloud is much faster and could levitate. it's hard for gouki to match his speed. powerwise, I admit gouki is stronger. but that doesn't mean cloud is weak. let's see if gouki could use misogi after his hands were cut off.

also remember that akuma only split an ayers rock in half. 😬

Which is basically busting it. But said feat is inferior to sinking a friggin island.

and you think (shin)gouki would use misogi in the beginning of the fight?

and did gouki has a speed feats? did you say misogi? how about the other moves? asura senkuu? it has a low startup. and it's just a teleport. and don't tell me misogi is can't be dodged. http://www.youtube.com./watch?v=qlamLPrnTY8

That's game mechanics and besides, not many people would be able to perceive the speed to doge the move in-game.

OMG...Cloud loses so damn hard, he has NO FEATS over Akuma except speed and it isn't that much higher. Akuma can bust mountains, Clouds regular ass swords are no prollem.

akuma's greatest feats were his strongest moves. he can't bust mountains with regular punches or kicks. to even suggest this is uberstupidity.

the fact that this thread has lasted this long is ridiculous.

what is really ridiculous is you people coming up here and spewing gouki fanlore and unconfirmed feats at me without any reference whatsoever.

That weak ass dragon doesn't amount to Gouki's leg

which has better feats than said dragon.

Cutting steel? Gouki does that with his bare hands and feet.

Misogi is instant, it is faster than Cloud.

Oh...And Gouki is faster than Cloud in terms of movement speed.

~Sado

Originally posted by ThoraxeRMG
[b]That's game mechanics and besides, not many people would be able to perceive the speed to doge the move in-game. [/B]

last i checked akuma weighed about 80kgs, and i'm pretty sure bahamut weighs more than that.

maybe they thought bahamut's weight is 79 kgs? 😆

maybe they thought bahamut's weight is 79 kgs?

Originally posted by Sado22
proof?

Your direct quote:

-he was sparring with karin? karin is practicallly his rival, DarkC. they are family rivals that have been in rivals in business and practically everything else.

I assumed he was sparring, since I couldn’t think of a reason why he would seriously fight Karin when his primary rival was Ryu. Provide me with a legitimate resource stating that Karin fought Ken where both were taking it mighty seriously, Sado, because Tiamat’s guide doesn’t say anything about them fighting, let alone sparring.

Direct Link

As you can see…yes, you were definitely saying that. I’m actually surprised you don’t recall it.

Originally posted by Sado22
i'm not.

In each reply you make to me, so far I’ve seen several instances where you drag up the topic of “namecalling” as though it actually mattered to you. So I slapped a few tags on you. Either get over it or discuss it properly with me, rather than repeating yourself instead of making progression.

It’s disappointing, really it is, when I see you repeatedly going on about the same thing even though I’ve taken the effort explain to you why I did this and why I did that, you seem to ignore it completely for some reason.

Originally posted by Sado22
"are you suggesting that you know me better than myself, Darkc?" 😆

I don’t need to know that you’re taking the “namecalling” a tad to heart. You bring it up far too much for that. It just consists of you bringing it up, then me telling you to go back and read where I explained why I’ve put each and every tag on you. And yet again, you ignore it. You just keep babbling on about it.

If you were actually not taking this discussion seriously, I wouldn’t be seeing NEARLY as much whining as I have thus far.

You’re also utilizing rather cliché debate tactics which you’ve already “spammed”, for lack of a better word…for example right now, just tossing what I’ve said right back at me wildly in hopes of making me look bad, when as you can see right now, you’re yet again wrong.

Here’s a word of advice. If you want to pass off as even a casual debator, learn to read the person’s posts properly and acknowledge them appropriately.

Originally posted by Sado22
😆
your clutching at straws, DarkC. give it up. from my book seeing you take yourself too seriously

I’ve already told you that yes, I do take all debates seriously; the ones that I get into anyway. Yet even after I tell you all this,

Originally posted by Sado22
getting exasperated over trifle things

I have no idea where this multiple exasperation nonsense of yours came from.

Originally posted by Sado22
and showering your oponent with titles in a debate over videogames all spell childish.

I’ve stated reasons why already.

Instead of acknowledging them, even fleetingly, you just resort to rambling on about how I’ve slapped tags on you.

Yeah…I’ve slapped tags on you. And I’ve explained why. Stop whining about it.

If you’re going to actually acknowledge those points that I’ve made that would be an enormous relief, and a welcome change from this nonstop talk about how I’m slapping tags on you.

Originally posted by Sado22
on top of that, you tend to say "so?" like a little kid everytime some brings up your mistakes and flaws in your *ugh* logic.

The last two times I’ve said that I was agreeing with something you said, but confused as to what you were ultimately trying to say. Because I’m not sure what point you’re trying to bring up is, or what you’re even trying to get at, that’s when I say “so?”.

That doesn’t make me childish at all, Sado…you’re just taking things a little too hastily.

Originally posted by Sado22
that's the exact thing i'm saying to you, idiot?

Like I said, comparing apples to bears.

Originally posted by Sado22
lol. so proove i'm childish then?

Oh, this is going to take a bit.

Well, let’s start off with the basics. You’re making claims at first prior…then changing them after completely just for the sake of making yourself look better, or more legit. What I refer to here is pertaining to the “bias or not” part of this debate earlier. You said that you “hated Cloud just as much as you hated Gouki”, therefore clearing your established bias, yet later I remember you making a claim about hating one twice as much as the other. Essentially what I’m saying here is that you’re willing to sail into uncharted waters in order to make yourself look better in this debate.

This also contradicts what you say about not taking debates such as this so seriously, in VG VS. You’ve allegedly never taken debates in VG VS seriously, yet you took Ken Masters vs Paul Phoenix seriously enough. If you didn’t “care”, as what you’ve said yourself, then why would you resort to things like making things up or trolling in order to get your point across in the first place?

And trolling is quite a childish debate tactic, if you could even call it that. It’s the equivalent of a kid going “Yeah, well…..(insert insult here)” because they cannot think of a proper comeback despite given plenty of time to do so.

You’ve also been going at me by throwing a lot of what I say right back in my face without even bothering to explain why. You just make the claim and leave it, as hoping that it will actually make a difference. The chances of you making such claims and hoping to get a point across are about the same as tying a blindfold on and hoping to hit a target with a dart across the distance of a football field.

To put it simply: you’re essentially saying, “No you!”

It’s also been really making me raise an eyebrow by seeing the amount of times you’ve cleanly ignored evidence or references I’ve stated in order to further ramble on about something you’re trying to get across. This is why I’ve finally taken the time to go find a YouTube video to show you what I’m talking about.

And you’re pretty much substituting a lot of your arguments with “laugh” smilies now, hoping that it will do something. Look, you have time to come up with a proper response, I suggest you make use of it.

Originally posted by Sado22
its pathetic and yet the same thing you're doing.

It’s quite plainly an attempt at trolling, a textbook definition, and now you’re pretty much just trying to sugar it up by claiming I’ve done the same.

It’s honestly just such a poor attempt that it’s laughable.

Originally posted by Sado22
funny thing about you, DC, you just don't know when to shut up.

Yeah, it would be appreciated if you would actually support something like this to make it less of a trolling statement…but no, you disappoint me.

Plus…why would I want to “shut up” in the first place, if I’m in the right?
I never get involved in a debate unless I know what I’m talking about.

Originally posted by Sado22
missing the context again. lore=unconfirmed.

When I refer to “lore”, I refer to confirmed story within the actual game itself. I use the term whenever I talk about World of Warcraft; why should the usage of the word be any different in any other debate?

Do you understand now?

Originally posted by Sado22
hence, baseless...

Originally posted by Sado22
kinda like everything else you're saying.

It’s exactly what you did last time we debated. Basically your bias blinds you at this point to the limit where you’re just forming hasty generalizations left and right, such as this one; despite the numerous times where I’ve cited a source originally provided by you yourself, plus other sources that kinda negates it.

Quite obviously, I might add.

Originally posted by Sado22
acting like you know how the character thinks is redundant

I’m open to suggestions as to alternative strategies he would utilize other than the one I mentioned.

Originally posted by Sado22
and wasting my time.

You’re passing it off as a “waste of your time” now when you can’t think of a proper way to counter.

If you can’t think of anything, fine, I’m not going to throw monkeys on your back because of it, but as it is Sado, you’re running out of excuses and excuses for actual arguments.

Originally posted by Sado22
and really, you've been disappointing me since you opened your mouth.

Still not very original, I see.

Originally posted by Sado22
fixed it for you 😆

Originally posted by Sado22
nobody ever brought up the fact that the island sinking is not proven, DC.

Terryc250 was questioning the canon (which included the island sinking/disappearing content) quite early in this thread. You were briefly discussing it with Darkstorm as well, I believe.

Originally posted by Sado22
lots of things really. but that's besides the point.

It flew up and disappeared in the sky?
It vaporized?

Originally posted by Sado22
if i start telling you things that could have happened instead of what actually happened, then i'd just be you.

And again, you attempt to throw something right back at me. Hooray.

Originally posted by Sado22
how is it strength feat when i'm talking about the speed with which he's weilding the sword, DC?

Think about it this way; normal people could easily wield weapons in combat with the speed of Cloud, but there is no way in HELL they would even be able to swing HIS sword, much less wield it at that speed. It just proves how crazy-strong he is by wielding such a huge weapon the way he does.

Originally posted by Sado22
you really need to stop throwing the word 'proof' around.

However, it’s a difficult thing NOT to do when people such as you deny clear evidence even when it’s presented right underneath your nose repeatedly. I wouldn’t have gone on this long if you had actually replied properly, would I?

Originally posted by Sado22
have already. to me, he looks ready enough to be cocky.

Yep, he looks cocky…but that doesn’t mean he’s ready. Other evidence suggests that he isn’t, I’ve already listed that.
Plus, he made the expression before Cloud did the charge up.

Basically Cloud whirls his sword around for the charge up, and Sephiroth starts to get ready. You see him start to adjust his body facing and the grip on his Masamune…and suddenly, Cloud unleashes it on him.

Bottom line, he wasn’t completely ready for it.

Originally posted by Sado22
Fact: you can't prove that because adjusting the grip could also mean being ready. had he adjusted the grip or was he adjusting it?

You are not making any sense at all.

Originally posted by Sado22
Fact: his posture was that of someone prepared. you don't have to have your sword infront of you to be ready.

Look at the standstill shot of Sephiroth surrounded by the six glowing swords of the First Tsurugi. Does that look even remotely ready to you? He was in no way prepared for it. That’s why he’s floating with a slack look of shock on his face, his arms outstretched, his grip on the Masamune slack.

Yes, you are correct in that you don’t have your sword in front of you considering all the stances there are. However, in the scene Sephiroth was clearly in the process of making the move to face his opponent and have his sword out ready in front of him. He did not finish.

Originally posted by Sado22
he's caught uprepared because he didn't see the omnislash's new version coming. obviously.

Originally posted by Sado22
not really. i'm saying that its CGI. hence not realistic in portrayal.

Even if it’s CGI, it’s the best and only evidence you or I can use at this time, unless you have some hidden real-time Final Fantasy movie I haven’t seen yet. Hell, a lot of things in Final Fantasy are unrealistic.

What would YOU say a “better portrayal” would be?

Originally posted by Sado22
yes do that.

I called you biased because you were being biased. It’s not meant to be a derogatory term at all, and you’re acting like it is. So you’re a little distinct in your preferences by now, that doesn’t insult you. However, you’re clearly biased despite your claims that your hatred for Gouki is equal to that of Cloud. In the VG Vs, I’ve seen you hate on Gouki and the SF universe in general when something like Tekken is brought up. And in this thread I’ve shown you where you were overhyping Cloud’s abilities just a little.
I called you narrow-minded because you, for some reason, refuse to think outside the box in one or two occurrences. For example, the whole deal with the bullet speed being variations, and the nonsense about this capital letter business.
I called you sad because even now I still have to refer to things I’ve said earlier because you didn’t seem to read my posts properly.

Originally posted by Sado22
as are you in your namecalling.

You never even finished arguing the point. You just evaded, and are just repeating something you want to prove in the hopes of making it fact.

Originally posted by Sado22
actually, i don't but have decided to take your word for it

Originally posted by Sado22
i haven't been rude to you last time and i wasn't this time.

Don’t play me for stupid, Sado, we both know that neither of us were civil at all, in either this debate or the last one. I may be rude, but I’m not going to act like an idiot and pretend that I wasn’t when there’s clear evidence otherwise.

Originally posted by Sado22
coming from someone "exasperated" so easily? 😄

Try again, this repetitive “hot potato” tactic of yours wore old quite fast.

Originally posted by Sado22
let me help you: i'm saying that if we really start debating i can use your exasperations and capslocks and word usage to show that you're angry.

Your Caps Lock argument was a failure from the start, usage of Caps Lock doesn’t automatically mean anger. Here’s one example that refutes it instantly:

Person A: So I heard X (insert something outrageously hilarious, yet quote shocking)
Person B: OH MY GOD WOW

Caps lock. No anger there.

And go ahead and show me this “word usage” that suggests anger. This should be quite entertaining.

Originally posted by Sado22
you've got nothing going for you.

There’s no way that you can prove or even support those arguments of yours that I can’t refute, but go ahead and keep thinking what you want.

Originally posted by Sado22
you're probably right, but you have no proof

You’re the one trying to prove that I’m angry remember? Learn the rules, haha.

Originally posted by Sado22
supported by communications skills 201

I highly doubt they’d teach something of that magnitude of nonsense at a junior high school, let alone a University/College level.

Originally posted by Sado22
naive=you're the one who didn't even know of this and went out of your way to deny something you were totally ignorant about (just like that "utter crap" comeback when i said all endings need not be canon)

What happened a year ago doesn’t exactly relate to the circumstances here though, does it? You’re dragging up past events in an attempt to support yourself, when they’re not even legitimate at where we are right now.

Like trying to build a boat out of bricks.

Originally posted by Sado22
which pretty much means you've got nothing going for you, really. do you understand now?

You’re somehow lecturing me on not understanding something when you don’t even know whose shoes you’re in right now.

Originally posted by Sado22
and so, we go back to the namecalling:
please explain to me that i'm childish and naive and shallow and narrowminded and immature and sad when i believe i'm not.

Originally posted by Sado22
are YOU suggesting that you know me better than i know myself...over the internet even?

It’s completely different from trying to discern an emotion, like happiness or anger, because they’re mannerisms, not behavioural.

By the way, come up with something original for once, not a borrowed comeback from me.

Originally posted by Sado22
are you NOT using my words as proof of your (baseless) accusations?

Originally posted by Sado22
and looking at the above then aren't you doing the exact samethings that you accuse me of doing?

Look at what you just said below.

Originally posted by Sado22
stop with the namecalling.

As if this weren’t enough, you actually somehow have the audacity to demand proof for something as abstract as not being angry. There IS no proof. You can’t ask someone to prove they’re happy, sad, angry, jealous. It makes no sense, it can’t be done anyways.

You’ve dug your grave so deep to the point where you can no longer see daylight now.

Originally posted by Sado22
do you want me to post the number of times i've suggested this?

You keep replying, instead of dropping the subject altogether like I’ve suggested.

I don’t think it gets more simpler than this.

Originally posted by Sado22
you seem to agree that he won't exactly see a 6way phasing instantaneous move coming either.

I think you’re misunderstanding me here, just a little.

Originally posted by Sado22
do you really think gouki would get over his surprise fast enough to dodge/counter an instantaneous lethal move that comes from 6 different directions? that's what i'm asking you. instead you keep on telling me that he will dodge it with this and do this and then do that, as if you know how gouki thinks. you don't. stop pretending you do.

He’s already in evasion mode. He’s already teleporting all over the place in anticipation. How is Cloud going to home in on this? Some are speculation, but this…this isn’t even a case of guessing what he’s going to do. What kind of moron would stand still when a super is about to be pulled off?

If you can stop complaining about my guessing of Gouki’s actions and post a counter strategy for Cloud, please feel free to do so, but as it is…you’re almost whining right now.

This entire debate, and any other debate in any Vs forums is based on speculation anyways, so saying something like that is completely moot.

Originally posted by Sado22
you're oversimplifying it.

Originally posted by Sado22
if i'm fighting someone who i'm sword fighting with and who has as of yet shown no inclination towards teleportaton, then i'm not going to expect him to pull it off. period. and definitely not an intangible, 6way teleportation at that.

“Hmmm, maybe he’s going to pull off a special on me.”

If the Omnislash had no charge up time, period, then yes I would agree with you.
Once again, it isn’t intangible. Otherwise he would be completely immune to the physical world.

Originally posted by Sado22
if it took him as long as it did in the SFA2 ending, then i really doubt it. considering that cloud took very litle time to pull it off.

And you say that he teleported to the Great Wall of China, from an urban area (probably a major city), which is obviously a very large distance in a matter of seconds.

So yeah, Gouki is pretty damn fast, what else is new?

Originally posted by Sado22
you lack proof of that feat. yes or no?

It’s canon, Sado.

And really, the only realistic way for that island to “disappear” after being struck by Gouki’s fist on top of it is to sink.
If you deny this, you’re essentially just proving my point on you being short-sighted.

Originally posted by Sado22
cloud's not a bigman. he's 5"7 which is pretty short. the whoe sword reaches up to his sternum (see him standing at Zack's grave in FFAC) which makes the buster sword anywhere from 4foot to 4.5foot.

Originally posted by Sado22
do you have any proof? No

1.) He is able to withstand deep water pressure where the water filters out all light from the surface.
2.) He is able to rip through the deep-sea submarine (and the ship it was exploring) like tinfoil with Tenshou Kaireki Jin, causing the huge explosion on the surface and blowing the submarine into pieces.

You’ve referred to 3rd Strike’s ending in the past I believe, which beats me why you are even asking this.

Originally posted by Sado22
yes i know. we're talking about resistence to cuts. not pressure. cutting and hacking are a different kind of pressure that can't be confused with the pressure you're talking about. i told you before: wonder woman can take blows from the likes of superman, but she can still be penetrated by bullets and cut. why? because localized force is different from collective.

If Gouki is on that level of durability it won’t matter whether Cloud’s attempting to cut. There wouldn’t be any difference in actual results. Think of it this way. If the material is stronger, it wouldn’t matter if you cut at it, charged at it with a battering ram, shot at it, whatever; it still would lack the strength of the material to make any damage.

Gouki can rip through an an entire sunken ship in seconds.
Cloud can instantly slice a giant support beam in half like cheese.

It’s pretty even here, IMO. Kind of like Goku vs Trunks.

Originally posted by Sado22
which no matter what you do, does not refute my point of cloud's speed feat in any way or form.

Originally posted by Sado22
and i told you, CGI's representation is another thing.

Originally posted by Sado22
my bad, i meant "moves". and moves as in those besides SGS.

So there’s no way of telling, really.

Originally posted by Sado22
then we have the wrong scene. this one was with cloud standing between yazoo and loz on the tree and they were attacking him simultaneously...and then even went into a two-on-1 sky fight for a few seconds.

Also, he WAS both deflecting bullets and meleeing with Yazoo…but only briefly, for like a second. No projectiles were fired while Yazoo was in close with his fist weapon.