Gouki vs. Cloud

Started by Dark-Jaxx21 pages

No, I really don't.

You know who Demitri Maximov is? They couldn't even do a thing to harm him, let alone kill him. He is from Darkstalkers, a world where the weakest of Makai demons can take down armies, Demitri until Jedah was reborn was the strongest one.

you know in KOF there's someone who could defeat such a godlike character such as igniz. it's K', iori and kyo. also orochi was defeated by kyo, iori and chizuru.

in tekken, jin defeated a fire breathing monster such as ogre. ogre also known as god of fighting. and this is normal ogre. then how about true ogre? must be more powerful.

and don't tell me demitri was stronger than orochi even igniz. or maybe you want to say that this is 1 vs 1 against demitri?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
you know in KOF there's someone who could defeat such a godlike character such as igniz. it's K', iori and kyo. also orochi was defeated by kyo, iori and chizuru.

in tekken, jin defeated a fire breathing monster such as ogre. ogre also known as god of fighting. and this is normal ogre. then how about true ogre? must be more powerful.

in SF... don't know what to say. 😆

and don't tell me demitri was stronger than orochi even igniz. or maybe you want to say that this is 1 vs 1 against demitri?

Yeah, Demitri is much stronger. Demitri stood up against a God of an entire dimension without dying. Demitri is physically stronger than Donavan Baine, who is class 100 with one hand. Demitri is faster, stronger, more powerful, and can drain their souls pretty easily with a Midnight Bliss. He fights world eating Gods such as Pyron.

did he won?

Yes.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yeah, Demitri is much stronger. Demitri stood up against a God of an entire dimension without dying. Demitri is physically stronger than Donavan Baine, who is class 100 with one hand. Demitri is faster, stronger, more powerful, and can drain their souls pretty easily with a Midnight Bliss. He fights world eating Gods such as Pyron.

Hmm...

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
God is just a title.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Being a God means jack friggin shit,

🙄

Jaxx's point was that even though God is nothing more then a title, if Fuuma can't understand that and uses it as a feat or an example of power, Jaxx can use the same twisted logic.

Even though it really wouldn't hurt to just say Demitri beat "stronger gods".

Doesn't sound as impressive.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
He fights world eating Gods such as Pyron.

Who weakened himself, according to Pyron Knight.

Pyron Knight is a waffle. His credibility is that of a waffle, which isn't very high.

why I said they are godlike because of their power. orochi himself was resurrected to destroy the world as he said in KOF 97 before final battle "nothing gonna change just like 1800 years ago. everything shall return to nothing".

Which he never has done. Pyron has destroyed planets. Devoured countless galaxies in fact. Pyron was weakened to a mortal form. But was implied to still have planet busting power when he said sumthin along the lines of,"I can destroy this whole planet with but a thought."

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
Doesn't sound as impressive.

Not unless you can describe what they did like Jaxx did.

back on topic, foo's!! 😠

Cloud hacks Akuma to little pieces and mails 'em to each state.

Originally posted by Sado22
back on topic, foo's!! 😠

Cloud hacks Akuma to little pieces and mails 'em to each state.

Nah, Gouki kicks him in half.

Originally posted by Sado22
i don't remember it that way.
and you're talking about karin kanzuki, who fought ken once and lost, then fought him again and lost and is his rival in hotel industry since that's what ken does and that's what karin's family does. or something along those lines. so what irony are you talking about?

You said that Karin was Ken’s true rival, which is of course absurd; Ryu is Ken’s true rival, that’s easily established in every Street Fighter plot guide. Or probably just that one. Tiamat’s guide says that only their families are financial rivals. It doesn’t make them personal rivals, on the same level what Ryu means to Ken. You also said that Karin hates Sakura (which was false too).

See, this is the kind of irony I’m talking about, you threw a reference in my face; I used it to correct you.

Originally posted by Sado22
well in three paragraphs you've more or less said the same thing so i'm just going to reply to this one.
made mistakes in SF and FF plots? like what?

Not so much as mistakes in the plots themselves, but what generally happens. For example, Gouki “not” sinking an island, Sephiroth’s reaction to Omnislash V5, how Cloud swats those bullets aside, the actual bullet speed.
You even said you weren’t too clear on either series at the moment, which is fine, but then you imply that you remember it fine just now. It doesn’t make any sense. Do you really remember, or don’t you?
Originally posted by Sado22
garbage? communication204 says otherwise

What, did they lecture on internet debates or something?
It’s still garbage; if you have a problem with me capitalizing ordinary words and telling you that they’re not meant to be offensive for the most part, then that’s entirely your problem. It’s not even significant, yet you make such a ridiculously big deal out of it.
Originally posted by Sado22
.....*what i've said before. and before that. and before that*

So, nothing else to add.

Originally posted by Sado22
which proved i wasn't
i've said twice already that i hate cloud more than gouki. stop right there.

No, you just claimed. You can claim it, and still act biased.
Originally posted by Sado22
like saying parrying instead of swatting...even though swatting imo makes it more impressive?

That’s because they’re two different actions.
Originally posted by Sado22
when you say "MY GOD" and "stop being so bloody biased" i'd assume you're angry. its normal for me to think it, because since this is an online discussion i can't do face reading or read your body language. its pretty simple when you think about it.

No, it’s still remarkably naïve of you if you believe that to be “anger”. You weren’t insulting me there, you were pointing something out (which turned out to be completely null). Judging from the context of the post, does it make sense to you at all that I would express anger?
You’ve already made this mistake in the previous time we debated, you’re doing it again.
Originally posted by Sado22
it all boils down to neither of us knowing what make it was and hence, saying they were slower or faster than regular bullets (whatever that is) is pointless. capiche?

Alright.
Originally posted by Sado22
in the forest when they were fighting on ground and not on the bikes, cloud was swatting the bullets with much ease. in fact, the most impressive bit was when Loz and yazoo were shooting at him on the tree and he was swatting the bullets even though they were a few feet from him. in fact, i think it was about 5 feet away. that was impressive, and that's the scene i remember best because it was damn impressive. and that's the scene which i keep in mind when i say that cloud can parry\swat bullets because not only was he doing it when very close to the shooter but he was doing it with one sword. and he wasn't holding it in front of him or using the size. if anything, weilding a 6foot blade at close range is very hard. which really makes it all the move impressive.
do you understand now?

I remember that scene well, that was probably the best indication of Cloud’s speed and it WAS quite impressive. However, the part where you talked about with Loz and Yazoo shooting at him at close range didn’t last more than a few seconds before Cloud darted away. It was a lot more than just 5 feet too, otherwise he’d be in range to take a swing at one of them if he got the chance, and as you can see in the video he’s clearly out of melee range.
The wielding of a six-foot boardsword with that kind of dexterity is impressive, but it is not a speed feat of Cloud’s, which is what we’re trying to get at here. It’s a strength feat.
Originally posted by Sado22
see this is where you lose me.
cloud swats away bullets from yazoo while fighting off Loz at close range who has a powered up materia+gauntled that made him superspeed, superreflexes and superpower (or the other way around perhaps, i forgot the names cuz i hated them both). dodging bullets and fighting a metahuman makes me think that he can handle a gou-hadouken and still be fast enough to handle whatever akuma plans on doing next. in fact, not only that but cloud will be doing it better because compared to the bullets, he has less to worry about when it comes to gou-hadouken since they are far and by, much slower.

He was able to combat both simultaneously. Not at the same time. Watch the video again.
Originally posted by Sado22
i think he could. also as tiamat says, the MvsC specials are non-canon. that means no beams or rain of fireballs.

Wasn’t it in SFA3?
Originally posted by Sado22
and sephiroth's another story. i think cloud is faster than sephiroth.

No he isn’t. He wasn’t even able to catch up with Sephiroth during their fight a lot of the time. He got owned in the first round when Sephiroth disappeared and flew in like a falcon from behind and slashed Cloud clean through the wall of a building before Cloud was able to react.
Originally posted by Sado22
you called me sad, narrowminded, biased, and a hypocrite. on top of that, you also said that you were "exasperated" as well.

Yes, and I provided reasoning for it as well….what’s your point here?

Originally posted by Sado22
on top of that you said that JustFrame proved it, instead of actually telling me what he said. i looked over his posts and all i say for fanboyfanatic rambling.

Sado, with you….a LOT of things are “fanboyfanatic” rambling. The only example I can think of “fanboyish” rambling is shin_gear.
Originally posted by Sado22
everything there is what you said. and you were the one who started it.

This all over AGAIN?
Seriously, Sado, you’re giving me major déjà vu here. This is so reminiscient of our previous debate that it’s almost…funny, for lack of a better term.
Originally posted by Sado22
typical sado moment? if it means showing you where you're wrong, then yes it is.

No, you’re acting just like Burning thought here. I’m doing the majority of the in-debate correcting here, Sado. Several times now you’ve had a misconception on facts that you stated that I have had to clarify. What grounds do you even have on making this ridiculous statement?
Originally posted by Sado22
it was a joke post. i actually found your post funny. and so i decided to have fun. that's why the "laughing" smiley in the beginning.

As usual, pass it off as a joke…
You’re getting quite predictable, actually.
Originally posted by Sado22
you're talking like i don't even let you speak and repeatedly say you're coping out.

That’s essentially what you’re doing. You’re pretty much ignoring a lot of the things I say and simply dismissing it as cop out, often with no explanation why. That’s why I mock you for it.
Originally posted by Sado22
looking back, i've conceded, agreed and apologized for things that you pointed out to be wrong. on top of that, minus this post i haven't really shot labels at you either.

Yes, and so….?
Originally posted by Sado22
i'm just poking fun at your temper at times and that's all...and it does seem to get a reaction out of you too.

No, just like the last time you’re trying to pacify a non-existent temper.

It’s amusing, really, how you think you repeatedly fail to decipher what mood I’m in or how I am taking this. In short, you’re suggesting that you know me better than I know myself. Over the internet.
A laughable notion, at best.

Originally posted by Sado22
oh and that's label number 5 you just dished out. i'm not saying "dee dee dee" and ignoring the facts you're raising now am i? that is childish.

Nope, you’ve simply ignored quite a few points of mine by just dismissing them, period. And you’ve exaggerated my attitude to the point of ridiculousness where I appear to have anger management issues. Still quite childish.
Originally posted by Sado22
like i said, i was poking fun at your temper. let it sink in: i said "poking fun".

Like I said, I’m not remotely angry.
Why does it seem so hard for you to understand such a relatively simple thing?
Originally posted by Sado22
summing everything up, you've said:
-i'm biased
-i'm narrowminded
-i'm sad
-i'm childish
-i'm a hypocrite[/b]

Yes, yes, I called the point you were making sad, not you yourself.
All of the above I called you, those were for certain things you were doing at the time. I’ve already provided reasoning for such.
Originally posted by Sado22
if you ask me, coming down to name calling in a serious post is more childish than coming up with a hulk reference to someone having temper issues in a joke reference.

I suppose it would be if it were completely unfounded. However, I have provided reasoning that you still have not yet argued against. And yet again, I have to remind you that I have no temper issues. Thanks.
Originally posted by Sado22
besides, hulk is iconic when it comes to temper issues. hence the reference.

That was pretty obvious, thanks. I’m not entirely clueless about the world of pop culture references, thanks.
Originally posted by Sado22
and what does "having stones" have anything to do with this, ya big sexist pig?! 😠
(also a joke 😐 )

It’s a figure of speech. Basically what I meant is how you have the nerve to bring something up, which makes you look like a hypocrite.
Originally posted by Sado22
proof? SFA2 ending seemed to take longer, though i didn't measure the exact time.

That was a different teleport.
Originally posted by Sado22
agreed. but would gouki know what's coming, is what i'm asking you?

Maybe not EXACTLY what was coming, but he would know for sure that Cloud would be going on the offensive. Only a fool would not realize that Cloud is charging an attack up, and Gouki would be prepared to teleport right through the Omnislash.
Originally posted by Sado22
probably. all in all i think it took cloud less than 5 seconds to pull it off. just pointing it out so that its made clear that it wont be easy.

If the move had no charge up, then yeah it would probably be game over for Gouki. As it stands it’s pretty obvious that Cloud’s going to launch something big.

Originally posted by Sado22
well it was the only time we do see him teleport...which is what ashura warp is.

But it wasn’t used as a combat teleport. The next time we see him is on the edge of a cliff. It is also inconclusive as to where he teleported to in the first place, so it is far too general to be relied on as a source of how fast the Ashura really is.

Originally posted by Sado22
really? interesting. was it the same split second thing or a different move? if its there in SNK version of Shin Gouki then i assume its semi-canon at the very least.

~Sado


It was definitely the Misogi. There were Youtube videos on showing how to counter it.

its not really fair in considering the older the game the harder it is so it has to be the most recent thing they have been in so im going to say cloud