The kotor 2 triumvirate vs rots siddious

Originally posted by Faunus
Being violently cut off from battle meditation weakens an individual considerably, as we see with Johun:

Instead, the powerful push struck Worror, throwing him into the corner as the lightsaber strike that would have cut him in two swished harmlessly through the air.

Johun felt his strength and energy plummet, A wave of exhaustion and fatigue overwhelmed him, the beneficial effects of the battle meditation vanishing as Worror's concentration was broken.

Refer to what Lightsnake said; Johun, being a pathetic sack of crap was incapable of basically anything without Worror's BM; even later on, when he was augmented by the power of Worror's BM and had a perfect shot at it, he couldn't sever Bane's wrist; in other words, without the assistance of the Battle Meditation, he's a worthless piece of junk. This quote just backs it up.

Originally posted by Faunus
Not that any of this actually detracts from Bane...
There's nothing putting Saesee Tinn above Farfalla: Obi-Wan believed all four Jedi to be some of the greatest swordsmen the Order had ever produced, while the narrator gives that praise only to Mace and Agen. Fisto's pretty lethal in his own right, but other than being an amazing pilot there's very little reason to put Tinn above Farfalla. I agree with the rest, though.

Let me rephrase that; BMed Farfalla = Tiin/Fisto < Kolar < BMed Raskta < Mace. As you see- as you apparently agree with my post (and once again, see what Lightsnake said), a team of two Farfalla's, one opponent greater than Farfalla, and one opponent greater than RASKTA is a more formidable team than the team Bane faced, and nevertheless, Sidious uberpwned this team using his saber skills EXCLUSIVELY. Bane, meanwhile, showed his dominance over the team that attacked him only through his brutal force techniques; his lightsaber skills showed NO superiority over the skills of Farfalla and Raskta. Raskta, BMed, alone, was a definite match for Bane, and she is DEFINETLY Windu's inferior. One might argue that Windu defeated Sidious, but then again- according to Windu himself, his Vaapad could not defeat Sidious, it was only his shatterpoint that allowed him to gain the upper hand and the broken window- Bane has no such advantages against Sidious, and it's pretty clear that Sidious is at the very least Windu's equal in terms of pure lightsaber skills (by that, I mean lightsaber skills without including shatterpoints and such, tactical knowledges... for example, Anakin > Obi-Wan in terms of pure lightsaber skills, but Obi-Wan is the overall better fighter due to his tactical mastery and cool head).

Originally posted by Faunus
Which in no way implies that his speed is greater, only that he relies on it more than Bane does.

I'm calling on you to use your logic, now, which will force you to shatter the illusion that Bane is Sidious' superior in lightsaber combat; unless Bane is Sidious' vast superior in lightsaber combat, then obivious Sidious' SPECIALITY will be better than something that Bane does not rely on as much; this is NOT 'third-rate' logic. For instance, a Vaapad user will be faster than a Djem So user of equal skill, but the Djem So user will be stronger; and seeing as Bane displayed no sort of superiority over Sidious, I doubt that his speed- which is not even his speciality- is greater than Sidious'. Of course, Bane is physically stronger than Sidious, because that is his SPECIALITY. See what I mean?

Originally posted by Faunus
It's pretty clear that you've never read RoT, or even bothered to Wiki it to any real effect:

He spun back to the fight to see that the Echani Weapons Master had taken the offensive, sending quick flicks of her blue blades toward Bane's unprotected face-the only spot on his body seemingly not covered by the impenetrable shells. Remarkably, [b]Bane was giving ground.

"Stay back!" she shouted at Farfalla. "You'll just get in the way."

Farfalla did as he was told, gathering the energies of the light side to throw up another protective Force barrier should Bane try to unleash his dark side powers against the Echani.

She seemed to be everywhere at once-in front of Bane, beside him, behind him, circling low, leaping to come in high, deflecting his blade with one of her own then stabbing three quick times in succession at his eyes. The big man's head ducked and bobbed, twisting and turning to avoid her blows as he tried to mount a counteroffensive.

Raskta's mastery of her blades was unparalleled, but even with her talents augmented by Worror's battle meditation she wasn't able to land a telling blow on such a small target through Bane's defenses. Still, the ferocity of her new strategy had turned the momentum in her favor [/b]... or so Farfalla thought.[/b]

Bane continued his retreat, circling away from Raskta's blades, then suddenly turned and ran straight toward the unarmed Ithorian standing just inside the door of the room.

He was never in danger of being killed by her. And you're conveniently, and unsurprisingly, ignoring this:

"Go for the face!" Farfalla shouted, arriving on the scene and throwing himself into the battle as Johun did the same.

Together the three of them held the Sith Lord at bay: Farfalla on the left flank, Johun on the right, and Raskta in the center. Between blocks and parries they cut and stabbed at his face, their combined efforts finally forcing their enemy into a defensive stance.

The young Jedi marveled at the speed and savagery of Raskta's blades. And while Johun's own clumsy efforts had actually seemed to impede Sarro when they fought side by side, Raskta appeared to thrive off his presence. When he went high, she went low. If he came from the left, she came from the right. It was partly a function of her choice of weapon: individually each of her lightsabers was more precise and accurate than Sarro's giant double blades. But it was more than that. Her reactions were so fast, her combat instincts so pure, that she was able to sense and anticipate what he was going to do even as it happened, then use his attacks to her own advantage.

On her opposite side Farfalla struck with clean, elegant blows, his form perfect as he harried Bane's right flank. Yet though they were able to hold their ground, they couldn't drive him back or defeat him.

They were at an impasse, none of their attacks able to connect with the one vulnerable part of Bane's anatomy.

In the climax of the battle, all three of them attack him at once, all aiming right at his face, and only managed to keep him from running them over. Contrary to your implication, Raskta's "unparalleled" skill is shown to be completely incapable of forcing him back on her own, as she manages to actually use Johun's tactics to her advantage, while Farfalla goes at Bane from the right with "perfect" form, and they still can't even get him to start giving ground. [/B]

And you are actually entirely ignoring YOUR OWN freakin' quotes; they put him on a defensive stance, which also logically means they were FORCING HIM BACK; Raskta, alone, according to your VERY quotes was capable of forcing him back on HER OWN and prevent him from launching a counterattack; while he is definetly her superior, her newfound strategy and tactics actually gave her momentum and caused Bane to be in SERIOUS difficulty; of course she wasn't able to land a blow on him, but she most definetly had the upper hand on him and forced him to finally eliminate the Jedi's source of power; namely, Worror. If your quotes did anything at all, they actually supported my argument; Bane never, until the end of the BM, display superiority to them in terms of lightsaber skills, other than displaying his superiority over Farfalla at a certain point. Also, let me remind you that Raskta was only killed by a sneak attack and not through anyone actually out-duelling her; if she went on her own against Zannah, Bane would have to start searching for a new apprentice.

Originally posted by Faunus
This makes no sense whatsoever, but okay...

Right. Bane's force push would've grounded Raskta, while the same force push had the effect of killing on someone else; I see no reason why he wouldn't use a powerful force push on Raskta. Do you?

Originally posted by Faunus
No, it clearly said that she would have been picked up and "plastered" against the wall, crushing her to death. The wave Bane unleashed on the mercenary camp destroyed everything it touched, and shattered the woman's back upon impact: it didn't knock her to the ground, causing her injury, it smacked into her and killed her.

Raskta had SOME degree of force ability to defend; of course, she pretty much sucked at it, but she must have had the capacity to at least make the push do less significant damage on her; anyway, it's sheer momentum could crush her against the wall and kill her.

Originally posted by Faunus
Apparently I need to spell everything out to you, to an even further degree than I thought I already had.
"Slightly above average"? So an "exceptional" combatant and a Jedi Master who fought on the front lines of the most overwhelmingly massive Jedi v. Sith conflict in galactic history is "slightly above average"?

And as I've stated multiple times, being a Jedi Master has more to do with knowledge and wisdom than actual power; of course, it is certainly an indicator of power at some degree, but the Jedi do not base their titles on power. For example, Worror, who was certainly powerful and a frontline warrior would get crushed in single-combat due to his lack of actual combat skills. I ask you; what did Farfalla do that made him exceptional? Other than that quote, which already made me admit to him being powerful, what actually backs him up being 'uber'? Okay, you know what, I'll say that he's powerful- but nevertheless, you yourself agreed with me that Fisto and Tiin, the weakest of the team Mace used, were Farfalla's superiors. And the fact still exists that Sidious owned them and an even stronger person while simultaneously forcing back Raskta's superior.

Originally posted by Faunus
You're absolutely ridiculous.

Another of the intelligent insults. I suppose I'm the one whose ridiculous, when I'm simply trying to debate with you about a certain topic and trying to prove my points.

Originally posted by Faunus
Uh-huh. Then the fact that Sidious' lightning killed three acolytes who "almost definitely" weren't putting up a defense isn't impressive, either.

The more impressive part of the feat is the the extent of the damage Sidious did on them, and tore through three people who were very possibly putting up a defense, were called powerful, and probably relied more on force usage than anything else. It's more impressive than tearing through the defenses of a single Jedi. And now then, to another point; how come Raskta, who lacked powerful force defenses, dispelled Bane's lightning with no indication of effort while Mace Windu, someone who displayed impressive force feats and had the power of Vaapad at his disposal could barely block Sidious' lightning when Sidious was in an inferior position? And by Mace's own admission, Sidious' lightning was owning him. Unless you want to say that Bane's lightning wasn't at full power in this stage- which is absolutely moronic, seeing as he used it to try and kill a Jedi who was very conscious and had his force defenses up- you'll see that Sidious' lightning had a far more profound effect on the people who attempted to block it.

Originally posted by Faunus
Of course. Because if Sidious does it, it's cool and impressive.

Refer to what Gideon said. And while Worror's feat is most definetly impressive, it's also that Bane's lightning was still deflected by someone of Worror's caliber- meanwhile, Sidious has actual feats backing up his uber power and while he was severely injured and near-dead, he killed and mortally wounded, capable Jedi with one blast.

Originally posted by Faunus
[b]READ the following, or DON'T RESPOND.

1) Bane thought that Worror was dead. Since he'd already killed Farfalla and Zannah had dealt with Serro and Raskta, that would mean he believed Johun to be the only Jedi left.[/B]

Fair enough.

2

Originally posted by Faunus
) Johun was lying on the ground whimpering in pain (He screamed and dropped to his knees, clutching his cauterized stump...) with Zannah standing mere feet from him. In Bane's mind, the battle was over. Therefore, there would have been no need for him to exert himself any more than was necessary.

Please, we both know Sith; Johun, a pathetic Jedi- and seeing as Zannah saw it, I'm pretty sure that Bane, a more seasoned and capable of combatant would see it too- came the closest to damaging Bane by dealing a deep cut into Bane's wrist. I think Bane would want to inflict his full punishment on someone like that. And WHY take any risks? People already showed surprising things during the course of the fight, so why not go to the fullest extent to be 100% sure of Johun's death?

Originally posted by Faunus
3) Bane's lightning - if we were to wrongfully assume that it was being used at full power in any instances - was capable of reducing multiple living beings to ash, charring two enemies to smoking husks in a "few" seconds, and easily ripping through the defenses of a BM'd Jedi Master. Do you really think Johun needs to be disintegrated to be killed? Or that his Force defenses, which weren't even up at the time, would even begin to compare to those of Farfalla?

Who knows? Ironically, the weakest Jedi of the group came the closest to severely injuring Bane; while Bane would know that Johun is a pathetic piece of crap, he would be injured and would want to be absolutely assured of Johun's death. Note the high damage the lightning had on Bane himself.

Originally posted by Faunus
4) Against an enemy described as clumsy and weak who had no chance of escape and was mistakenly believed to be alone, Bane would have no need to use a full-powered lightning blast, or even anything remotely close.

But WHY not go to the fullest extent and be ABSOLUTELY sure of the death of your opponent- who managed to inflict a great amount of pain on you? While Bane's lightning could have possibly not been at its maximum power, it would most definetly have been at the very least close to its maximum power.

Originally posted by Faunus
Then Johun caught a glimpse of white flesh peeking out from the seam between the Sith's armored gloves and the strange shells on his forearm. The gap was narrow, but it was large enough for a well-aimed blade to penetrate.

He slashed at his new target. Amplified by Worror's power, the Force flowed through him and guided his blade home. The contact wasn't perfect; his lightsaber glanced off the edge of the armored shells so that he only made shallow contact with the skin beneath. Instead of severing the hand, he merely sliced deep enough to sever nerves and tendons.

Bane bellowed in rage as his weapon slipped from his grasp, the wound leaving his fingers limp and powerless. But before Johun or any of the others had a chance to finish off their unarmed opponent, they were blown backward by an explosion of dark side energy, their enemy's power fueled by the sharp, sudden pain of his wound.

Lying on the ground ten meters away, Johun watched in helpless horror as the Dark Lord's lightsaber leapt from the floor and flew back into his hand. Amazingly, his fingers wrapped themselves around the hilt and reignited the crimson blade, his injuries somehow healing almost instantly.

Yeah. So with the "assistance," to say the very, very least of it, Johun just barely manages to nick Bane's wrist, which just pisses him off and results in the trio being blown back thirty feet.

Not much of an accomplishment.

Nick Bane's wrist? I suppose deep cut isn't very clear? It's kind of ironic that the weakest opponent was the one who injured Bane the most. Bane would definetly be very pissed at him.

Anyways, before we move on; you've never actually stated if you think Sidious would defeat or lose to Bane. Could you please clarify your opinion on that?

what did Farfalla do that made him exceptional? Other than that quote, which already made me admit to him being powerful, what actually backs him up being 'uber'?

How about surviving on the front lines on the Ruusan battle. The book even says that ,'he had fought in nearly every confrontation'
Also his form was described as 'perfect'.

And the fact still exists that Sidious owned them and an even stronger person while simultaneously forcing back Raskta's superior.

Sidious cuaght two of those jedi by surprise, so it could hardly be said that he 'owned' them in a duel. Heck, he chucked his saber at one of them, which is hardly a display of 'Mad skillz'.
And plus Banes opponants were BM'ed, which drastically boosts their abilities.

how come Raskta, who lacked powerful force defenses, dispelled Bane's lightning with no indication of effort while Mace Windu, someone who displayed impressive force feats and had the power of Vaapad at his disposal could barely block Sidious' lightning when Sidious was in an inferior position? And by Mace's own admission, Sidious' lightning was owning him. Unless you want to say that Bane's lightning wasn't at full power in this stage- which is absolutely moronic, seeing as he used it to try and kill a Jedi who was very conscious and had his force defenses up- you'll see that Sidious' lightning had a far more profound effect on the people who attempted to block

For a start, Raskta wasn't standing two feat from Bane, and for a second she deosn't block Banes lightning like windu did, she instead ,'carved figure eights in the air to catch and absorb the bolts of dark side energy'. The difference between 'direct' and 'indirect'.

And WHY take any risks?

WHY did palpatine take the risk in RotJ?

Who knows? Ironically, the weakest Jedi of the group came the closest to severely injuring Bane; while Bane would know that Johun is a pathetic piece of crap, he would be injured and would want to be absolutely assured of Johun's death. Note the high damage the lightning had on Bane himself.

Note the higher damage the lightning could have done. As in Disintergrating him.

Refer to what Lightsnake said; Johun, being a pathetic sack of crap was incapable of basically anything without Worror's BM; even later on, when he was augmented by the power of Worror's BM and had a perfect shot at it, he couldn't sever Bane's wrist; in other words, without the assistance of the Battle Meditation, he's a worthless piece of junk. This quote just backs it up.

No this quote backs up the point that he only feels tired after he loses the BM, indicating that it impowered him fully.

Sorry Sidi, couldn't resist.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
How about surviving on the front lines on the Ruusan battle. The book even says that ,'he had fought in nearly every confrontation'
Also his form was described as 'perfect'.

The 'perfect' part means that his form looked elegant and used perfect, NOT clumsy attacks unlike Johun; indeed, this part actually implies Farfalla to be a Makashi practician. Which seems plausible, knowing his personality and all.

Also, btw, what enemies exactly were there in the Sith War that were really anything other than bantha fooder that would be tooled by any PT fighter? Other than Bane and Kas'im?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Sidious cuaght two of those jedi by surprise, so it could hardly be said that he 'owned' them in a duel. Heck, he chucked his saber at one of them, which is hardly a display of 'Mad skillz'.
And plus Banes opponants were BM'ed, which drastically boosts their abilities.

I 'lol' at this. First of all, he never chucked his saber at ANYONE- you're making stuff up- and, they all had their lightsabers drawn and were informed by Anakin that Sidious was the Sith Lord. The big master. The guy who should be stronger than even Dooku, and therefore, they were VERY ready for a fight; Fisto was described as quite tense in the shuttle ride towards Sidious' office. Also, he drew his lightsaber and tossed a line ("It's treason, then."😉 before hurling himself at them; they were VERY prepared and ready for a battle and could actually see Sidious drawing his lightsaber.

BM does enhance one's skills, but as we see Johun being still 'clumsy' and all, it enhances ONLY physical attributes and reflexes and will not cause one's technical skill to increase. Unless you think BM Raskta = Mace... yeah. W/e.

I'll elaborate; throughout the entire duel, Mace was being forced and back. I've yet to see Bane replicate a feat like coming very close to defeating a good candiate (along with Yoda, Sidious himself, Bane, and a few others) for the 'greatest duelist in history' (at least up until that point). The best duelist Bane ever fought- who is probably no where near as strong as Mace- actually owned the shit out of Bane.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
For a start, Raskta wasn't standing two feat from Bane, and for a second she deosn't block Banes lightning like windu did, she instead ,'carved figure eights in the air to catch and absorb the bolts of dark side energy'. The difference between 'direct' and 'indirect'.

So? Mace 'catched' the lightnign with his blade; Windu, incidentally, being a FAR superior physical opponent than Raskta and was capable of owning battle droids and seismic tanks with his BARE HANDS, had an EXTREMELY difficult time catching Sidious' lightning; hell, the novel almost explicitly states that if the attack went on, Windu would be screwed. He even admits to being too weak to kill Sidious; and it so happens that there is a good amount of reason to say that Sidious did not go all-out in the force lightning assault, and he definetly feigned his weakness; yeah. Even with his Vaapad and "I can own Kar Vastor" hands, he was being overpowered by Sidious. And all while Sidious was in an inferior position.

Meanwhile, Raskta, Mace's definite inferior, catched and deflected Mace's DEFINETLY full-powered lightning with no apparent difficulty. Do you see the difference?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
WHY did palpatine take the risk in RotJ?

Cuz he's a typical arrogant Sith. Bane never displayed any sort of arrogance in his fights, did he? Sidious, meanwhile, had his arrogance as his own downfall.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Note the higher damage the lightning could have done. As in Disintergrating him.

Great. Don't you think Bane MIGHT have had the ability to somewhat block his own friggin' lightning? If he could not even do that... well, you see what I mean. ESPECIALLY if his lightning wasn't at full power.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
No this quote backs up the point that he only feels tired after he loses the BM, indicating that it impowered him fully.

Huh? Err... yeah, the BM was the only thing that kept Johun from being milkshaked in two seconds. So what?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Sorry Sidi, couldn't resist.

Shame.

Stupid typo. I meant 'Bane's lightning', not Mace's.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
Right. Bane's force push would've grounded Raskta, while the same force push had the effect of killing on someone else; I see no reason why he wouldn't use a powerful force push on Raskta. Do you?

Okay, you know what, I'll say that he's powerful- but nevertheless, you yourself agreed with me that Fisto and Tiin, the weakest of the team Mace used, were Farfalla's superiors.

Originally posted by Me
There's nothing putting Saesee Tinn above Farfalla... Fisto's pretty lethal in his own right, but other than being an amazing pilot there's very little reason to put Tinn above Farfalla. I agree with the rest, though.

Another of the intelligent insults. I suppose I'm the one whose ridiculous, when I'm simply trying to debate with you about a certain topic and trying to prove my points.

who were very possibly putting up a defense,

You can't prove me wrong, so I'm right. Haha.

were called powerful,

It's more impressive than tearing through the defenses of a single Jedi.

That also means that Sidious' feat of disintegration is no more impressive than that of Bane's especially considering the circumstances that applied to each at the time of their respective displays. Palpatine popped out on the trio, who were absolutely mortified of him, talked to them a bit, and fried them. Bane was controlling a drexl's mind while fending off three others "beasts" and their riders when he used one hand to turn his targets to ash, and char the enemy drexl to the point that it was little more than a smoking, burnt husk. That being another of the PoD-era power displays (it takes place in a section of the book that occurs within the weeks following PoD's conclusion).

And now then, to another point; how come Raskta, who lacked powerful force defenses,

dispelled Bane's lightning with no indication of effort while Mace Windu, someone who displayed impressive force feats and had the power of Vaapad at his disposal could barely block Sidious' lightning when Sidious was in an inferior position?

And Raskta, unlike Mace, didn't just stop Bane's lightning through brute strength. She wove her two lightsabers in a figure-eight pattern to divert and disperse the bolts.

And by Mace's own admission, Sidious' lightning was owning him.

Mace noted that Palpatine's lightning was "beyond Vaapad." A far cry from what you would like, and apparently you've been having trouble distinguishing between fact and fandom throughout this entire debate.

Unless you want to say that Bane's lightning wasn't at full power in this stage- which is absolutely moronic, seeing as he used it to try and kill a Jedi who was very conscious and had his force defenses up-

you'll see that Sidious' lightning had a far more profound effect on the people who attempted to block it.

I think Bane would want to inflict his full punishment on someone like that. And WHY take any risks? People already showed surprising things during the course of the fight, so why not go to the fullest extent to be 100% sure of Johun's death?

Who knows? Ironically, the weakest Jedi of the group came the closest to severely injuring Bane; while Bane would know that Johun is a pathetic piece of crap, he would be injured and would want to be absolutely assured of Johun's death.

But WHY not go to the fullest extent and be ABSOLUTELY sure of the death of your opponent- who managed to inflict a great amount of pain on you? While Bane's lightning could have possibly not been at its maximum power, it would most definetly have been at the very least close to its maximum power.

Bane's lightning, over a decade prior to RoT, was capable of reducing three defenseless enemies to ash. Three. To ash.

Johun was one defenseless enemy. Bane - who, again, ten years ago had displayed the ability to disintegrate his opponents - saw that. He believed Worror was dead and the battle was won. He would not need to turn someone to ash just to make them die.

To put it in real-world terms: that's like cutting someone's head off, then deciding that you may as well take a sledgehammer to it. Just to be safe.

In my terms - and like the rest of your "argument" - its absolutely idiotic.

Nick Bane's wrist? I suppose deep cut isn't very clear? It's kind of ironic that the weakest opponent was the one who injured Bane the most. Bane would definetly be very pissed at him.

Note the high damage the lightning had on Bane himself.

When. They. Die. They. Release. Deadly. Toxins.

Bane's. Lightning. Killed. The. Orbalisks.

This. Caused. The. Toxins. To. Be. Released.

The. Toxins. Crippled. Bane. Because. He. Was. Caught. By. Surprise. And. Struck. With. His. Own. Lightning. Simultaneously.

who managed to inflict a great amount of pain on you?

Half the bones in his body were broken by Sirak, he was growing organisms on his chest that ate into his flesh and bone, he'd crashed a ship and dislocated his shoulder - which he promptly popped back in - and he fell over a kilometer to the ground with three drexls and five other people on top of him, with enough force to create a two-meter-deep, twenty / thirty-meter-wide crater in the ground.

Pain isn't really much of an issue when it comes to Bane.

Anyways, before we move on; you've never actually stated if you think Sidious would defeat or lose to Bane. Could you please clarify your opinion on that?

Really, Bane isn't any more vulnerable to the effects of lightning than any other Jedi would be. A sustained blast from Sidious in a combat situation, were it to connect, would quickly kill anybody. Bane would just go down harder thanks to the poisons.

And don't expect another post from me on the subject. You've honestly bored me to the point that I no longer want to debate with you, which, considering the people I've gone up against, is quite a feat. You simply ignore everything I put down, refuse to catch the inferences made by the plethora of quotes and passages I provided (such as the effect of BM), and are simply too blinded by your own ignorance and laziness to be thought-provoking in any way, shape, or form.

So yeah. You can reply if you like - I'm expecting some sort of analytical, similarly condescending post - but I'm not continuing this any further. I'm done here.

Originally posted by Faunus
Bane, unless Sidious could managed to outmaneuver him and hit him with a gout of lightning. Which should be his strategy against every other powerful opponent in the saga...

Not very farfetched, Faunus. Sidious is capable of casually disarming Yoda -- who can use the Force to augment his physical strength to where he can lift a gun the size of a house on his back (according to Nai) -- he can certainly disarm Bane with similar effort. And even if Bane's defenses were sufficient enough to repulse the lightning (they aren't), he can't deal with Sidious's lightning and the toxins of the orbalisks.

The Dark Side Sourcebook already says that Sidious was the most powerful of Bane's Order (which includes Bane).

Originally posted by Gideon
Not very farfetched, Faunus. Sidious is capable of casually disarming Yoda --

Although "casually" is probably a fairly awful way of describing anything about that fight.

who can use the Force to augment his physical strength to where he can lift a gun the size of a house on his back (according to Nai) -- he can certainly disarm Bane with similar effort.

And even if Bane's defenses were sufficient enough to repulse the lightning (they aren't), he can't deal with Sidious's lightning and the toxins of the orbalisks.

The Dark Side Sourcebook already says that Sidious was the most powerful of Bane's Order (which includes Bane).

And again, I'm not saying that Sidious doesn't have a chance - he just doesn't have a good one, especially in a lightsaber duel.

Originally posted by Faunus
A "powerful" attack doesn't mean it required his full effort, or even a significant portion of it. Bane's "full-power" Force-push as of PoD caused a sizable temple to implode.
Well, somebody can't read.
But I guess that should come as no surprise, huh?
Except you're not proving anything. You simply refuse to acknowledge the points that I make, as evidenced in full below, while failing miserably in your rebuttal attempts.

Err... no, Faunus, I am not 'failing miserably' in my rebuttal attempts, despite what you may tell yourself. You, my friend, are not proving anything, either, despite what you may think about yourself. Simply believing that "Worror's technique was more uber cuz I said so lol' isn't enough.

I suppose ending every one of your points with a witty, intelligent insult makes you feel big and powerful, right? Insulting the nasty Sidi-Boy who simply tried to- *gasp*- actually say that Sidious could beat any of the triumvirate in combat! OMG! He must be punished!

Originally posted by Faunus
And Sidious was "very possibly" a homosexual pedophile. Therefore, I can use it an argument.

Right. Whatever you say.

Originally posted by Faunus
You can't prove me wrong, so I'm right. Haha.
Well, oh my god! That puts them right up there with fetus Anakin Solo!
Says you. As a display of power in comparison to another prominent Force-user it most certainly isn't, as you can't even prove that the trio were putting up any sort of defense, while I've shown that Farfalla most definitely did.

And did I ONCE deny the fact that Farfalla put up a force barrier? And give me a single reason why these Acolytes- who knew that they summoned something to assassinate the much-treasured aprpentice of Sidious- wouldn't at least attempt to possibly try to block anything that may come out of Sidious' direction. Yeah, right, of course they weren't putting up a defense. But when Traya tries to drain her enemies- of course they were putting up a defense!

Nice job.

Originally posted by Faunus
That also means that Sidious' feat of disintegration is no more impressive than that of Bane's especially considering the circumstances that applied to each at the time of their respective displays. Palpatine popped out on the trio, who were absolutely mortified of him, talked to them a bit, and fried them. Bane was controlling a drexl's mind while fending off three others "beasts" and their riders when he used one hand to turn his targets to ash, and char the enemy drexl to the point that it was little more than a smoking, burnt husk. That being another of the PoD-era power displays (it takes place in a section of the book that occurs within the weeks following PoD's conclusion).

Great. Now, mainly because I have absolutely no further wish to have you say "You're ignoring my points!!!111!!!", I will say that Bane's feat wasn't less impressive than Sidious'. Happy?

Originally posted by Faunus
She possessed marginal ability in applications of the Force that didn't pertain to physical combat. Considering she alone was responsible for the slaughter of more Sith than the thought bomb itself, one would think Raskta had faced more than her fair share of Dark side Force-users.

Right then, I suppose rumored just isn't true, right? Because it was rumored, then the feat is not necessarily true and possibly an exaggerration similar to Sidious' "Vader owned 50 Jedi" rumor.

I said that force defenses weren't a speciality. But she cerainly had them, at least on a meager level.

Originally posted by Faunus
"Lying on his back" =/= inferior position in a Force contest. If you can actually prove otherwise, go for it, considering the most powerful Force-wave in the saga was performed by a guy lying face-down on the ground.

Do I really need to prove to you why lightning from Sidious, lying on his, could basically own a Jedi who was standing right above him and had excess to both UBER physical conditioning and a combat style that could, in theory, reflect a darksider's abilities back at him, happens to be an inferior position for Sidious? As you seem to be intelligent, don't think so.

Originally posted by Faunus
And Raskta, unlike Mace, didn't just stop Bane's lightning through brute strength. She wove her two lightsabers in a figure-eight pattern to divert and disperse the bolts.

And what the hell do 'two lightsabers' actually matter? How come Raskta, who had extremely little force defenses, disperse "Teh uber Bane"'s lightning, while Mace, an opponent who is her definite superior and had access to a tehnique that could reflect his opponent's attack back at him, could not do the same for Sidious? Yeah. Seems likely.

Originally posted by Faunus
Mace noted that Palpatine's lightning was "beyond Vaapad." A far cry from what you would like, and apparently you've been having trouble distinguishing between fact and fandom throughout this entire debate.

Err... yeah, whatever you say. You're fabricating facts; the fact that Mace 'had no strength left' and 'was choking on ozone' isn't very clear to you? MACE WAS BEING OVERPOWERED. FACE IT.

Originally posted by Faunus
Ah. You telling me what looks moronic. I can taste the irony.

Yeah. I bow before you, my Lord Faunus, the great epitome of perfection and intelligent. How dare I, a mere newbie to this forum and a biased, unintelligent sack of crap dare to question your authority? Forgive insolent me.

Originally posted by Faunus
Uh-huh. So while Bane's lightning completely tears through the Force-defenses of a powerful Jedi Master, Sidious' two-handed blast - while directed at a considerably more powerful target than Farfalla - can't even overpower the enemy when Sidious himself is located comfortably in the middle of the senate pod, and Yoda is grabbing onto the edge with his feet. The attack even ends up being forced back between the two and exploding.

So? The fact of the matter is that Yoda was perfectly balanced on the ledge- and Sidious' lightning had the capacity to friggin' disarm friggin' Yoda with its sheer power; the fact is, Farfalla isn't even close to Yoda's league, and this just supports that fact.

Originally posted by Faunus
Good job repeating the exact same thing three times in a row. See, unlike you, I don't need to see something half a dozen times before I read it. Cuz if you'd been following, I've answered this already. A lot of f*cking times. This will be the last.

Bane's lightning, over a decade prior to RoT, was capable of reducing three defenseless enemies to ash. Three. To ash.

Johun was one defenseless enemy. Bane - who, again, ten years ago had displayed the ability to disintegrate his opponents - saw that. He believed Worror was dead and the battle was won. He would not need to turn someone to ash just to make them die.

To put it in real-world terms: that's like cutting someone's head off, then deciding that you may as well take a sledgehammer to it. Just to be safe.

Because of the nature of this argument, I think we should really face the truth- neither of us will concede. I will therefore drop the whole Worror point, since it's simply a source for bashing and anger.

Originally posted by Faunus
In my terms - and like the rest of your "argument" - its absolutely idiotic.

Once again, I bow before you. Your argument is far more intelligent than mine, when you've proved absolutely NOTHING- you did not bother to explain why Sidious could own three Jedi Masters who were like an almost-Raskta and two more powerful Farfallas while simultaneously forcing back Raskta's superior, nor did you actually do anything to counter WHY THE HELL is Raskta's defensive technique somehow superior to Mace's... yeah. In other words, you cannot counter my point and therefore resort to bashing me.

Originally posted by Faunus
And Bane always overexerts and exhausts himself when he's pissed. Please. Don't lecture me about a character who's defining literature you've never even read. At least Wiki the damn books before debating against me about them.

And why is the me part so hugely emphasized every godamn time? You obivious have a wrong opinion of yourself, Faunus.

Originally posted by Faunus
Orbalisks. Are. Weak. To. Electricity.

When. They. Die. They. Release. Deadly. Toxins.

Bane's. Lightning. Killed. The. Orbalisks.

This. Caused. The. Toxins. To. Be. Released.

The. Toxins. Crippled. Bane. Because. He. Was. Caught. By. Surprise. And. Struck. With. His. Own. Lightning. Simultaneously.

Err... okay, then, how do you explain the EXTREMELY large degree of damage inflicted upon the orbalisks? Unless they explode when the slightest amount of electricity hits them?

The fact is, I now see the fact that Bane's lightning was probablt not at its full potency, but it was still probably highly close to it.
...

Originally posted by Faunus
Half the bones in his body were broken by Sirak, he was growing organisms on his chest that ate into his flesh and bone, he'd crashed a ship and dislocated his shoulder - which he promptly popped back in - and he fell over a kilometer to the ground with three drexls and five other people on top of him, with enough force to create a two-meter-deep, twenty / thirty-meter-wide crater in the ground.

Pain isn't really much of an issue when it comes to Bane.

And is it really an issue for Sidious, who used the pain from his own lightning assault- according to the novelization- to empower his own attack? He obivious used pain as a method to increase his power and rage.

Not saying that Bane can't do the same; just that it's common among powerful dark siders.

Originally posted by Faunus
Bane, unless Sidious could managed to outmaneuver him and hit him with a gout of lightning. Which should be his strategy against every other powerful opponent in the saga...

Eh? Sidious is a hugely underestimated duelist and one of TEH best duelists in the history of Star Wars. Not the best, perhaps, but definetly among the top dudes. Also, I agree that Sidious won't be capable of defeating Bane in a simple, pure lightsaber fight due to the advantage of the orbalisks (as you yourself said, Sidious' dueling skills are a notch above Bane's), but Bane won't be capable of defeating Sidious, either; I see the fight as a close-ranged match, in which Sidious will create openings via telekinesis or his saber, and subsequently take the opening to blast Bane with force lightning.

Of course, contrary to what you might believe, I do not believe that Sidious will definetly take a match with Bane; just that he's more masterful and probably smarter, and could take a fight 6/10 of the times. Not the 10/10 you apparently you think I believe.

Originally posted by Faunus
Really, Bane isn't any more vulnerable to the effects of lightning than any other Jedi would be. A sustained blast from Sidious in a combat situation, were it to connect, would quickly kill anybody. Bane would just go down harder thanks to the poisons.

Accurate. Therefore, he has less defense and will be even more vulnerable to the effects of Sidious' lethal force lightning.

Originally posted by Faunus
And don't expect another post from me on the subject. You've honestly bored me to the point that I no longer want to debate with you, which, considering the people I've gone up against, is quite a feat. You simply ignore everything I put down, refuse to catch the inferences made by the plethora of quotes and passages I provided (such as the effect of BM), and are simply too blinded by your own ignorance and laziness to be thought-provoking in any way, shape, or form.

Err... yeah, sure, whatever you say. Lazy? I don't exactly think I'm 'lazy' as much as you like to put it. At least give me respect for 'boring' you into submission 😛

Seriously, though, you seem to be blinded due to an apparent belief in Bane's superiority in comparison with Sidious' while canon and facts seem to point the other way around- your ignorance and your best strategy being ending each one of your posts with some sort of vicious, intelligent insult, while you have actually no proved anything. Just because I don't own the massive plethora of quotes you have access to, it doesn't automatically make me the less skilled debator.

Claiming below another 'condenscending' post from myself is extremely pathetic seeing as you have the absolute dominance in terms of arrogance, bashing. The difference between you and I is that I don't friggin' bash you for refusing to accept my points, and while I, in fact, during this stupid debate actually conceded several times, said "you may be correct", "I may be wrong", and the likes, you simply continued on with your belief in your own absolute superiority and your absolute refusal to even say "Hmm... this guy may be right!". If anything, I should be the one being bored by you, due to your extreme stubborness and your refusal to even question if my arguments are possibly correct.

Originally posted by Faunus
So yeah. You can reply if you like - I'm expecting some sort of analytical, similarly condescending post - but I'm not continuing this any further. I'm done here.

I do not ask you to reply to this post, but merely the fact that please remember that this is just a hypothetical debate, and your emotions seem to run a bit too high when we're simply debating upon the subject of which fictional character will win in a fight- I believe it's Sidious with a slightly better chance, you believe it's Bane. Whatever the fact may be, I suggest we do close down this dragged out and pointless debate, and hope that the insulting matches between us- and while I am guilty of insulting, you did start it- do not cause any animosity between us.

I tink Faunus answered most of your replies to my posts but I'll do a few.

I 'lol' at this. First of all, he never chucked his saber at ANYONE- you're making stuff up- and, they all had their lightsabers drawn and were informed by Anakin that Sidious was the Sith Lord. The big master. The guy who should be stronger than even Dooku, and therefore, they were VERY ready for a fight; Fisto was described as quite tense in the shuttle ride towards Sidious' office. Also, he drew his lightsaber and tossed a line ("It's treason, then."😉 before hurling himself at them; they were VERY prepared and ready for a battle and could actually see Sidious drawing his lightsaber.

You've obviously never read the RotS novel then have you.

I'll elaborate; throughout the entire duel, Mace was being forced and back. I've yet to see Bane replicate a feat like coming very close to defeating a good candiate (along with Yoda, Sidious himself, Bane, and a few others) for the 'greatest duelist in history' (at least up until that point).

dontgetit

You're joking right?

Great. Don't you think Bane MIGHT have had the ability to somewhat block his own friggin' lightning? If he could not even do that... well, you see what I mean. ESPECIALLY if his lightning wasn't at full power.

If he did have the ability to block surprise attacks then he'd just be too uber so I'm going with a no.

And what the hell do 'two lightsabers' actually matter? How come Raskta, who had extremely little force defenses, disperse "Teh uber Bane"'s lightning, while Mace, an opponent who is her definite superior and had access to a tehnique that could reflect his opponent's attack back at him, could not do the same for Sidious?

Its the difference between smacking a ball away with a bat as opposed to trying to block with one. On erequires a minimum of effort and the other just gets you smacked in the face.
This is also similar to Zannahs technique, where she deflects blows instead of blocking them, thus using less energy and strngth. Which you would know if you actually read the book.

Err... okay, then, how do you explain the EXTREMELY large degree of damage inflicted upon the orbalisks? Unless they explode when the slightest amount of electricity hits them?

Actually they can withstand an excess of 100,000,000 volts. And they weren't EXTREMELY damaged just dead and burnt a bit. They were described as black and brittle.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
You've obviously never read the RotS novel then have you.

The fight in the movie- which happens to be inferior to the fight in the novel- is canon. The novel is, as much as we might like it to be, NON-canon in the parts where it directly contradicts the movie; for example, Anakin did not actually watch the scene, but there combatants were definetly moving as a blur- think of it as "what Anakin would see if he came to see the duel".

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
You're joking right?

Err... no, I'm not. Name me one pre-PT person who would beat Mace in lightsaber combat.

And Kas'im owned Bane.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
If he did have the ability to block surprise attacks then he'd just be too uber so I'm going with a no.

Wonderful logic. "If Bane couldn't do it, it is to uber to be true."

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Its the difference between smacking a ball away with a bat as opposed to trying to block with one. On erequires a minimum of effort and the other just gets you smacked in the face.
This is also similar to Zannahs technique, where she deflects blows instead of blocking them, thus using less energy and strngth. Which you would know if you actually read the book.

Err... o-kay, whatever you say; Raskta CAUGHT the lightning, it's true, but her being Mace's definite inferior; and incidentally lacking a technique to effectively channel the lightning, she still managed to, with no apparent effort, block Bane's lightning, while Mace "Superconducting loop" Windu could barely block Sidious' technique and was losing strength rapidly; he would've been OWNED if it wasn't for Sidious feigning his weakness. And what makes you think that if Mace could barely block it, Bane could block it?

Not to mention Sidious could move Bane's blade away for an opening in which to blast Bane full of lightning.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Actually they can withstand an excess of 100,000,000 volts. And they weren't EXTREMELY damaged just dead and burnt a bit. They were described as black and brittle.

They weren't 'burnt a bit', they were like a charred carcass- similar to the drexls Bane obliterated a few weeks after PoD. And if RoT Bane's lightning could destroy the highly resistant- according to you- orbalisks to the same extent that his PoD-era, full-powered lightning utilized by Bane could do on these drexls... well, somehow I think that's simply an indication of the lightning's power, which would imply that it's at least close to its full power.

Originally posted by Faunus
When Yoda's in the crappiest position imaginable and the lightning hits his hand, sure.

It is a phenomenon when the stench of bullshit is so putrid that it breaches the barriers between the internet and real life, yet I do believe your words have managed to achieve such a feat. Yoda had finished his leap, was fully situated, and had enough time to brandish his lightsaber with dramatic flair -- the implication that Yoda was umbalanced, teetering on the edge, or calling for a timeout is as stupid as anything Sidi-Boy has mentioned here.

Although "casually" is probably a fairly awful way of describing anything about that fight.

No, casually is the accurate term. Sidious reached out with one hand, no facial expressions (since many are keen on analyzing them) suggesting effort, fear, or concern, and blasted the lightsaber right out of Yoda's hands (and almost knocking him over). Don't let Sidi-Boy's bad habits rub off on you, Faunus.

You're comparing the "augmented" physical strength of Yoda to that of Bane? Not good.

Why not? As stated before, Yoda was capable of lifting an object the size of a house on his back (according to Nai). If Bane has done better, and I'm not saying he didn't, please provide examples of such.

So RotS Sidious is just going to stroll in, "casually" blow away Bane's lightsaber, and proceed to fry him to death. Wonder why he didn't do that to Mace Windu, who's shown nothing even remotely close to Bane in Force power.

Are we debating this from a story perspective? During the first half of that duel, Sidious was in control the entire time, butchering three of the Order's finest swordsmen in history in seconds (a feat well beyond any of Bane's combat skills), the last of which he demolished while sparring with Mace before forcing Windu back into the main office. Need I remind you, Faunus, that when Sidious was on his ass and Mace "I WTFpwn an army of super battle droids and defeat Kar Vastor with my bare hands" Windu had a two handed grip on his lightsaber (and with the benefit of Vaapad -- a form that is "deadlier" than anything in Bane's arsenal -- a superconductive loop of dark side energy), not to mention the sheer fact that Windu outmassed Sidious and had leverage, and -- of course -- the simple fact that Sidious's face was being melted, distorted, and deformed -- he was pushing Windu's lightsaber back far enough that Windu was "choking on ozone" and that the effort was "beyond Vaapad".

Try again, Faunus.

1) Quote that.

Searching KMC and SD.net as we speak for it, since I don't have my adobe copy of the DSSB on hand. In the meantime, I'll provide you with one of three below:

2) When you do, please note that not once is there a mention of power. Conjecture =/= Fact.

The DSSB quote mentions power, as does the following:

The Sith have waited a millennium for the birth of one who is powerful enough to return them from hiding. Darth Sidious is that one.

-- page 194 of the Complete Visual Dictionary, which is not an in universe source. I've bolded the final sentence for emphasis. "Darth Sidious" is that one: not Bane. This is but one of three or four quotes that put Sidious above Bane.

Now, Faunus, you've been dealing with Sidi-boy longer than expected. But he and I aren't the same person, I use cited sources. Start putting things into perspective.

I know I'm new and all- and therefore, I most likely come off as a moron during some points here, but could you please explain to me what I did so wrong in this debate? I'd really like to hear that... not saying I didn't do stupid things, but could you please tell me what are the so dumb things I did? Thank you. 😛

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
I know I'm new and all- and therefore, I most likely come off as a moron during some points here, but could you please explain to me what I did so wrong in this debate? I'd really like to hear that... not saying I didn't do stupid things, but could you please tell me what are the so dumb things I did? Thank you. 😛

You're not a moron and given the access to proper sources, you'd be a force to be reckoned with (as far as Sidious is concerned, at least), since you don't seem to give up. The problem is that you tend to jump the gun and make the claim, and when you do, the burden is on you to prove it. Faunus and anyone else can sit back and nitpick or localize their attacks all day and force you to prove them, to concede, or whatnot.

Originally posted by Gideon
You're not a moron and given the access to proper sources, you'd be a force to be reckoned with (as far as Sidious is concerned, at least), since you don't seem to give up. The problem is that you tend to jump the gun and make the claim, and when you do, the burden is on you to prove it. Faunus and anyone else can sit back and nitpick or localize their attacks all day and force you to prove them, to concede, or whatnot.

Thank you. Unfortunately, I have a very limited plethora of Star Wars sources, and the hellhole in which I live has basically no available Star Wars material. Maybe I'll stick to movie stuff primarly, from now on... thanks for the advice, anyways. Greatly appreciated.

Why not just download them?

Originally posted by Faunus
[B]When Yoda's in the crappiest position imaginable and the lightning hits his hand, sure.

Although "casually" is probably a fairly awful way of describing anything about that fight.
You're comparing the "augmented" physical strength of Yoda to that of Bane? Not good.
So RotS Sidious is just going to stroll in, "casually" blow away Bane's lightsaber, and proceed to fry him to death. Wonder why he didn't do that to Mace Windu, who's shown nothing even remotely close to Bane in Force power.

1) Quote that.
2) When you do, please note that not once is there a mention of power. Conjecture =/= Fact.

The fight in the movie- which happens to be inferior to the fight in the novel- is canon. The novel is, as much as we might like it to be, NON-canon in the parts where it directly contradicts the movie; for example, Anakin did not actually watch the scene, but there combatants were definetly moving as a blur- think of it as "what Anakin would see if he came to see the duel".

Wow, so Bane definatly does top Sidious in the speed department seeing as how never once in the movie (what apparantly actually happened) does sidious move even half as fast as Bane has been shown to be capable of.

Err... no, I'm not. Name me one pre-PT person who would beat Mace in lightsaber combat.

There are lots of possibilities, but no one who could definately do it. Those possibilities include: Sion, Revan, Tulak Hord, Kas'im, The Exile ('Shrugs', its possible) and of course, Bane himself.

And Kas'im owned Bane.

You know its funny how owning someone looks an awful lot like getting a temple dropped on your head. I myself almost peed my pants.

Wonderful logic. "If Bane couldn't do it, it is to uber to be true."

What I ment to point out is that its next to impossible to block an attack that A: Catches you completely by surprise and
B: Electrocutes you with an excess of 1 million volts and causes vast quantities of toxin to be released into your body. What I mean by this is that it is stunningly hard to block something thats already electrocuting you. I know this from experience.

Not to mention Sidious could move Bane's blade away for an opening in which to blast Bane full of lightning.

I'm going to come back at this by saying : No he couldn't.

If Sidious could do this to Bane then why didn't he do it to Windu, Yoda, or Luke. Only Dooku, becuase of his one handed grip uses the force whilst fighting.

They weren't 'burnt a bit', they were like a charred carcass- similar to the drexls Bane obliterated a few weeks after PoD.

NO THEY WEREN'T.The book, which I have right in front of me right know, agrees with Me.It says, 'Several of the parasites hadn't survived, their brown shells turned black and brittle by the lightnings electrical charge'.

Why not? As stated before, Yoda was capable of lifting an object the size of a house on his back

That seems too farfetched to be true. Prove up please.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Wow, so Bane definatly does top Sidious in the speed department seeing as how never once in the movie (what apparantly actually happened) does sidious move even half as fast as Bane has been shown to be capable of.

Please. You cant have 'time stand still' in a movie for two old actors; plus, the speeds in movies do not necessarily contradict the speeds of the EU novels; sure, it seems more uber on paper, but in reality, the fights in the movies are extremely fast. Probably well beyond the speed of what an average person could pull off in a fight.

In addition, Sidious did move as a 'blur' during three times in the fight; the corcksew at the Jedi Masters, the spin at Mace in roughly 1:05, and the jump he performed while dodging Mace's attacks. When some CGI is used, you see, getting the 'blur' effect is very possible.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
There are lots of possibilities, but no one who could definately do it. Those possibilities include: Sion, Revan, Tulak Hord, Kas'im, The Exile ('Shrugs', its possible) and of course, Bane himself.

Sion- WTF?
Revan- Err... possible, I suppose, but I seriously doubt it.
Tulak Hord- WTF?
Kas'im- See Revan.
The Exile- See Revan.
Bane- Possible. I highly doubt it, though, except for in force mastery, in which Bane trumps Mace; but we're talking about saber skills here.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
You know its funny how owning someone looks an awful lot like getting a temple dropped on your head. I myself almost peed my pants.

I referred to their saber fight; the only way Bane could gain the upper hand (initially) was through studying the usage of Kas'im's technique and learning every single one of his double-saber moves, making unpredictability redunant in that fight; now, meanwhile, when Kas'im finally pulled out a technique that Bane was not familiar with countering- thus putting them on equal ground- Bane was completely and utterly destroyed by Kas'im's superior saber skills. See, when Bane fought a real powerful saber combatant, he basically lost in the lightsaber department. When he fought a likely inferior opponent, Raskta, while Raskta was not capable of killing him, Bane, when he went up against Raskta individually, could not gain the upper hand, either.

Raskta was later killed by Zannah in a sneak attack.

The fact of the matter still remains that Sidious had more impressive lightsaber duels in his history. I'll refer to his two duels and some of the references regarding him in certain EU novels;

1. Sidious vs. Kolar/Tiin/Fisto/Windu- As mentioned multiple times, Sidious massacred a team of highly formidable Jedi masters who were stated to be some of the greatest duelists in the history of the Jedi Order- of course, the fact remains that they were probably inferior to Raskta, but superior to anyone else on that team; meanwhile, Mace is most definetly Raskta's superior, and Sidious forced him back and was starting to overwhelm him during a few of the more crucial points of the fight; the only way Windu could conjure up the strength and power necessary to simply compete with Sidious was by reflecting his speed and hatred through the usage of Vaapad; and the only way that he could score a hit to Sidious was through the usage of his shatterpoint ability. This is the same Mace who was called one of the deadliest Jedi in history, mastered basically all forms of lightsaber combat, etc, etc...

2. Sidious vs. Yoda- Sidious stalemated Yoda in terms of lightsaber combat. Now then, Yoda was generally considered to be the single best duelist in the Jedi Order and had almost 900 years of experience under his belt; meanwhile, Sidious could keep up with Yoda and actually have the offensive for the majority of the battle.

Some references to Sidious' prodigious lightsaber ability:

"A master of every weapon and every form." Nick Gillard

Stated to be a '9', the highest level of lightsaber potency.

Also, a slight mention that may appear to be irrelevant; Dooku, who is called one of the greatest duelists in history (he might even trump Bane in terms of technical skill), had a fairly decent duel with Obi-Wan; now, meanwhile, the same Obi-Wan, one year later was stated to be Kit Fisto's inferior; the same Kit Fisto, who after strengthening for two years, could be owned by Sidious in five seconds. See what I mean?

Now then, aside from the orbalisks and his 'mountain of muscle' features, tell me a single reason why Bane could defeat Sidious in a lightsaber duel.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
What I ment to point out is that its next to impossible to block an attack that A: Catches you completely by surprise and
B: Electrocutes you with an excess of 1 million volts and causes vast quantities of toxin to be released into your body. What I mean by this is that it is stunningly hard to block something thats already electrocuting you. I know this from experience.

Wouldn't he have a split second's notice before the lightning hit him? However, I agree with you on the matter that Sidious would also probably be hit by such an attack. However, the fact remains that the lightning- one million volts or more, according to you- was most likely at least close to the full power of his lightning.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
I'm going to come back at this by saying : No he couldn't.

If Sidious could do this to Bane then why didn't he do it to Windu, Yoda, or Luke. Only Dooku, becuase of his one handed grip uses the force whilst fighting.

Windu- Was being defeated and forced back by Sidious' lightning; he would've, undoubtedly, been defeated had the attack continued.

Yoda- Had the lightsaber knocked out of his hands with a one-handed blast coming from Sidious. The same Yoda who could call upon the force for extreme enhancements in terms of strength and dexterity.

Luke- Sidious was torturing him, not trying to kill him. When he used his lightning at killing intensity, and even when it was not directed at his opponent, it destroyed Vader's life-support systems.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
NO THEY WEREN'T.The book, which I have right in front of me right know, agrees with Me.It says, 'Several of the parasites hadn't survived, their brown shells turned black and brittle by the lightnings electrical charge'.

O-kay. I won't argue with this matter.