I doubt there will be JUST 25 level 80 heroes, but there will be no one of extreme power to help them. The Aspects would never do it. Elune most definately not care about that fight.
There is no one of significance that will help them. The Aspects WILL NOT join in. Elune will NOT join in. There is no one of significant power that will assist in the Lich King battle.
Originally posted by Becci
I doubt there will be [b]JUST 25 level 80 heroes, but there will be no one of extreme power to help them. The Aspects would never do it. Elune most definately not care about that fight.There is no one of significance that will help them. The Aspects WILL NOT join in. Elune will NOT join in. There is no one of significant power that will assist in the Lich King battle. [/B]
You dont know that at all, ofc Elune would care, its a world full of worshippers, if the LK knocks it all down and turns her worshippers into corpses that walk, shes going to care. Her children are going to get butchered and the night elves made extinct, she is going to care, hell their basically her creators. Tell me why the aspects will not help? thats what their there for, hell what with Alex' activities in the region and being the protector of life she is going to want to be the main one to protect the world and destroy the LK once and for all.
Elune does not have to join, she could just buff, Alex could join, no reason why not, infact its quite likely since shes already got a presence there with getting Malygos in line.
Originally posted by Burning thought
yes and so? you know the exact battle against Lich King? ofcourse not, for all we know Elune herself may enchant the heroes with a mount hyjal caverns of time esque buff, we may gain help from the full powered Kiljaeden ,summoned by the Lich King to do battle and the heroes join in, several NPCs, aspects w/e could easily join the battle, so saying [b]just 25 level 80 players (who will have better gear than when they fight the others btw)there are powerful entities to weaken/fight him, and if there are not as i belive any real threats to LK, several aspects may join, or several NPC charactrs, maybe Blizzard will add a special way of killing him, so that his power is far far beyond anything the players have but theres items in the lair that weaken him or his own power.
Or it could just be a defeat, for either side, LK could defeat your party or else as i imagine myself I think the power of LK is beyond anything players or most Azeroth level opponents coudl dish out, so i think Arthas may fight back for control OR if Arthas is completly gone, the weakess the mortal body has may be a bad effect.
Either way, buff, NPC etc we dont know how the LK fight will pan out, if it goes like all the major entities, he will be weakened, the players will be buffed, NPC will aid the players or a combination. [/B]
Originally posted by Burning thought
You dont know that at all, ofc Elune would care, its a world full of worshippers, if the LK knocks it all down and turns her worshippers into corpses that walk, shes going to care. Her children are going to get butchered and the night elves made extinct, she is going to care, hell their basically her creators. Tell me why the aspects will not help? thats what their there for, hell what with Alex' activities in the region and being the protector of life she is going to want to be the main one to protect the world and destroy the LK once and for all.Elune does not have to join, she could just buff, Alex could join, no reason why not, infact its quite likely since shes already got a presence there with getting Malygos in line.
Originally posted by Burning thought
You dont know that at all, ofc Elune would care, its a world full of worshippers, if the LK knocks it all down and turns her worshippers into corpses that walk, shes going to care. Her children are going to get butchered and the night elves made extinct, she is going to care, hell their basically her creators. Tell me why the aspects will not help? thats what their there for, hell what with Alex' activities in the region and being the protector of life she is going to want to be the main one to protect the world and destroy the LK once and for all.Elune does not have to join, she could just buff, Alex could join, no reason why not, infact its quite likely since shes already got a presence there with getting Malygos in line.
I know that with 100% certain. Elune would not interfear in the battle against the Lich King. Nor would the Aspects. If you think Alexstrasza would join in against the Lich King, you have just proven exactly how little you know nothing about the Aspects.
If you think what you just said then you have proven that you do not know a shit about the matter 😛
Originally posted by Burning thought
Tell me why the aspects will not help? thats what their there for, hell what with Alex' activities in the region and being the protector of life she is going to want to be the main one to protect the world and destroy the LK once and for all.
Also, as I have said before she, like the other Aspects and Demigods of Azeroth, are content to let the mortal races settle matters for the most part, because it's been shown in the past that they're good at it. They only interfere if the mortal races cannot cope by themselves, hence, the first invasion of the Legion.
Go read the books, it's better than pretending you know what you're talking about.
Originally posted by DarkC
First of all, she represents the Essence of Life, she's not the protector of it. The protector was supposed to be Neltharion's job as the Earth-Warder, before he went insane. The roles have not changed since then for the remaining Aspects.Also, as I have said before she, like the other Aspects and Demigods of Azeroth, are content to let the mortal races settle matters for the most part, because it's been shown in the past that they're good at it. They only interfere if the mortal races cannot cope by themselves, hence, the first invasion of the Legion.
Go read the books, it's better than pretending you know what you're talking about.
It has been pretty clear ever since the start that Burning Thought know nothing about the Aspects other than what each represent and who blessed them.
Originally posted by DarkC
Why are you still trying to form wild theories just for the sake of supporting your own unfounded argument?During the first invasion of the Burning Legion, Elune did not grant extra support or favours of any particular significance. The most she ever did was to grant Tyrande her protection when she was captured by the Legion and held as a prisoner, in order to prevent Tyrande from being tortured or slaughtered, otherwise she completely stayed out of it. Her priestesses continued to pray and heal in her name, which they always have anyways.
Why are you jumping in conversations you seem to have no idea of? if you want to just jump in at least read so you know what each piece is meant for, that was in peticulour mocking the view that Becci and Utrigios keep saying LK will just be beaten by 25 guys when it could be any number of these things.
Well now shes going to have to otherwise Azeroth will likely fall, also Tyrande is her priestess is she not? perhaps Tyrande with the power of elune will become Elunes avatar and take on the LK then, as i said, its just a possbility but i gurantee Blizzard if they kill the LK its going to have an NPC or players will have a powerup.
Originally posted by Becci
I know that with 100% certain. Elune would not interfear in the battle against the Lich King. Nor would the Aspects. If you think Alexstrasza would join in against the Lich King, you have just proven exactly how little you know nothing about the Aspects.If you think what you just said then you have proven that you do not know a shit about the matter 😛
no you dont, your not a Blizzard employee which is prob why all your arguments fall flat, like back when you said all those so called facts...which are not...prove this knowledge, if the aspects are meant to protect Azeroth which they are, their guardians, then they should protect it...they should stop the LK, they DO join battles at times, and the red flight is in Northrend for Malygos.
You dont know anything either, you must know less than shit then, since I obviously understand more than you that its not just going to be a few players, as if any of the major characters have fallen to just players, you must be really stupid to think that.......
Originally posted by DarkC
First of all, she represents the Essence of Life, she's not the protector of it. The protector was supposed to be Neltharion's job as the Earth-Warder, before he went insane. The roles have not changed since then for the remaining Aspects.Also, as I have said before she, like the other Aspects and Demigods of Azeroth, are content to let the mortal races settle matters for the most part, because it's been shown in the past that they're good at it. They only interfere if the mortal races cannot cope by themselves, hence, the first invasion of the Legion.
Go read the books, it's better than pretending you know what you're talking about.
She is a guardian like all the flights are, they are not given power just to sit on their @sses, their guardians of their aspects, which is why Malygos is going haywire that all these mages are throwing magic around willy nilly, it seems you guys know less about the aspects than I do since even i know that.
Problem is, Lich King is a problem to the world, Lich King is no mortal either.
Go get some common sense, then learn how to argue, then learn to keep to your own arguments and not try and jump in when you know shit of the argument your trying to attack.....read some posts then join an argument...
The Dragonqueen Alexstrasza the Life-Binder, Aspect of the Red Dragonflight, is the guardian of all life in the world of Azeroth. She is hinted to be the leader and most powerful of the Aspects, as her domain, life, encompasses four to a certain degree.
woops what was that i see? oh just Dark C argument falling apart
Originally posted by Burning thought
Why are you jumping in conversations you seem to have no idea of? if you want to just jump in at least read so you know what each piece is meant for, that was in peticulour mocking the view that Becci and Utrigios keep saying LK will just be beaten by 25 guys when it could be any number of these things.
Don't avoid the question, and attempt to derail it by trying to call me out on something else that is completely irrelevant. Answer me.
Besides, Illidan was also thought unkillable, and he was to a point. Then he became killable.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Well now shes going to have to otherwise Azeroth will likely fall, also Tyrande is her priestess is she not?
As Krasus/Korialstrasz once said about Sargeras: "Believe me in that we have a chance even if every single demon that serves him steps through to fight, but NO chance if we defeat ALL only to have HIM step into this world."
And Tyrande shows a special attunement to Elune, that's why she was appointed by her sister priestesses as High Priestess after Deijhana died. Nice to see you still don't know what you're talking about. And she was captured after she was made High Priestess.
Originally posted by Burning thought
perhaps Tyrande with the power of elune will become Elunes avatar and take on the LK then, as i said, its just a possbility but i gurantee Blizzard if they kill the LK its going to have an NPC or players will have a powerup.
Give me something SOLID and SUPPORTED I can work with.
Originally posted by Burning thought
if the aspects are meant to protect Azeroth which they are, their guardians, then they should protect it...they should stop the LK, they DO join battles at times, and the red flight is in Northrend for Malygos.
They do protect and manage it as best as they can, but as I have said so many times before (and you have so many times ignored or failed to support a counter argument) they leave things up to the mortal races for the most part because the mortal races have proven themselves as guardians of the world in their own right. Alexstrasza's flight in particular has their agents scattered around the world in the affairs of the mortal races. Krasus in the head counselling of Dalaran, Vaelastrasz, those are just a few known examples.
Originally posted by Burning thought
You dont know anything either, you must know less than shit then, since I obviously understand more than you that its not just going to be a few players, as if any of the major characters have fallen to just players, you must be really stupid to think that.......
Have you read all the novels?
All the mangas?
The game manuals?
How many Warcraft games have you played?
Considering that I have to explain things to you multiple times that shouldn't be relatively hard to understand, you are in absolutely no position at all to accuse someone else of stupidity.
Congrats, you just proved that you're a pretentious pretend know-it-all who resorts to base insults instead of real arguments.
GG.
Originally posted by Burning thought
She is a guardian like all the flights are, they are not given power just to sit on their @sses, their guardians of their aspects, which is why Malygos is going haywire that all these mages are throwing magic around willy nilly, it seems you guys know less about the aspects than I do since even i know that.
-War of the Shifting Sands
-The Second Invasion of Kalimdor
-The Scourage
-Opening of the Dark Portal and the invasion of the orcs
-Shadow of the Necropolis
-The Second Opening of the Dark Portal
Etc, etc.
The thing is, they see the races doing their job FOR them so they don't see any need to step in unless help is seriously needed.
You know about Malygos in the present, Becci and I know him past and present. We have read the books and lore. You have not.
The dragons do have to step in to quell their rampant brethren before anything else, they've been shown to do so in the past anyways. You obviously don't know the complete background or going-on's during the time and occurence of Deathwing betraying the other dragons. He was their top priority among that time, during the first invasion of the Burning Legion.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Problem is, Lich King is a problem to the world, Lich King is no mortal either.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Go get some common sense, then learn how to argue, then learn to keep to your own arguments and not try and jump in when you know shit of the argument your trying to attack.....read some posts then join an argument...woops what was that i see? oh just Dark C argument falling apart
Good luck finding some proper counter arguments, by the way.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Why are you jumping in conversations you seem to have no idea of? if you want to just jump in at least read so you know what each piece is meant for, that was in peticulour mocking the view that Becci and Utrigios keep saying LK will just be beaten by 25 guys when it could be any number of these things.Well now shes going to have to otherwise Azeroth will likely fall, also Tyrande is her priestess is she not? perhaps Tyrande with the power of elune will become Elunes avatar and take on the LK then, as i said, its just a possbility but i gurantee Blizzard if they kill the LK its going to have an NPC or players will have a powerup.
no you dont, your not a Blizzard employee which is prob why all your arguments fall flat, like back when you said all those so called facts...which are not...prove this knowledge, if the aspects are meant to protect Azeroth which they are, their guardians, then they should protect it...they should stop the LK, they DO join battles at times, and the red flight is in Northrend for Malygos.
You dont know anything either, you must know less than shit then, since I obviously understand more than you that its not just going to be a few players, as if any of the major characters have fallen to just players, you must be really stupid to think that.......
She is a guardian like all the flights are, they are not given power just to sit on their @sses, their guardians of their aspects, which is why Malygos is going haywire that all these mages are throwing magic around willy nilly, it seems you guys know less about the aspects than I do since even i know that.
Problem is, Lich King is a problem to the world, Lich King is no mortal either.
Go get some common sense, then learn how to argue, then learn to keep to your own arguments and not try and jump in when you know shit of the argument your trying to attack.....read some posts then join an argument...
woops what was that i see? oh just Dark C argument falling apart
You have no idea what you are talking about. Read some books and you will realise just how wrong you are at so many points that it is just ridiculous. I am personally embaressed to see how little you know and if you ever realise how many points you are wrong at, you too will feel pretty ridiculous.
Originally posted by DarkC
I am because it's a debate, and you clearly don't know half of what you are talking about, which is why I called you out for speculating as if it was going to happen, simply because it supports what you're arguing for. It's not that hard to understand.No, Azeroth will not fall. Mortal races with aid from the dragons and the demigods of the world banded together and drove off Sargeras, who was a far greater threat to Azeroth than Arthas/Ner'Zhul is. If he posed a serious and immediate threat then you would see the guardians take action.
As Krasus/Korialstrasz once said about Sargeras: "Believe me in that we have a chance even if every single demon that serves him steps through to fight, but NO chance if we defeat ALL only to have HIM step into this world."
Give me facts that support your argument, not just more speculation, this is just getting ridiculous. All I'm getting from you is "Ifs", "maybe's", "perhaps", etc.
Give me something SOLID and SUPPORTED I can work with.
The fact is, B.T., we don't need to be Blizzard employees to understand the lore and reasoning behind the lore, so I suggest you drop that ridiculous statement immediately.
They do protect and manage it as best as they can, but as I have said so many times before (and you have so many times ignored or failed to support a counter argument) they leave things up to the mortal races for the most part because the mortal races have proven themselves as guardians of the world in their own right. Alexstrasza's flight in particular has their agents scattered around the world in the affairs of the mortal races. Krasus in the head counselling of Dalaran, Vaelastrasz, those are just a few known examples.
Prove that you understand more than us.
Have you read all the novels?
All the mangas?
The game manuals?
How many Warcraft games have you played?Considering that I have to explain things to you multiple times that shouldn't be relatively hard to understand, you are in absolutely [b]no
position at all to accuse someone else of stupidity.They're given power, but it doesn't mean that they HAVE to use it all the time. The world is going somewhat rocky, but there is no complete and imminent threat on the world like Sargeras was ten thousand years ago. Since then the mortal races have proved to be effective in maintaining the balance of the world. Proof:
-War of the Shifting Sands
-The Second Invasion of Kalimdor
-The Scourage
-Opening of the Dark Portal and the invasion of the orcs
-Shadow of the Necropolis
-The Second Opening of the Dark PortalEtc, etc.
The thing is, they see the races doing their job FOR them so they don't see any need to step in unless help is seriously needed.You know about Malygos in the present, Becci and I know him past and present. We have read the books and lore. You have not.
The dragons do have to step in to quell their rampant brethren before anything else, they've been shown to do so in the past anyways. You obviously don't know the complete background or going-on's during the time and occurence of Deathwing betraying the other dragons. He was their top priority among that time, during the first invasion of the Burning Legion.
He's a problem, but one that the mortal races can HANDLE thus far, hence the lack of interference from the Aspects. That is the entire point.
I am not even going to bother commenting on the stupidity of this comment, what a waste of text.
[/B]
Jesus you prob dont read any of the posts before you debate points, this is a debate and its your place to actually try and understand what the arguments were and who they were coming from, what your saying there and now is A: crushing your buddy Becci's comment (or was it Utrigos) on the same point ime mocking and B: therefore your making a fool of yourself and confusing this debate by messing up who is debating what.
Ime on the side of the LK not being beaten by 25 men and against people speculating, i was mocking the speculation myself....
read arguments before posting and floundering because of it 🙂
Azeroth will fall, no mortals or army of them could take on canonically the enormous undying hordes of the Lich King, it would take vast Dragon support/aspects and other forces to take the army alone, then youve got the Lich King himself. Sargerus turned out not to be much of a threat at all, his avatar crushed, his plans in ruins and him thrown out into the void. Wheras weve got Lich King before most of his power gaining and smashing most of the world, knocking human civlisation down the drain and kicking aside the high elves, almost making them extinct and in a way succeeding in that by them becoming Blood elves.
Wow, that makes the entire question of Sarg vs Lich King answered, thanks Krasus, words from some dragon do not make your argument, so what? theres words that state the LK, narrators words as well not a dragon whos personality, time of him saying it and many other things coming into the reason he is saying it, which said the Lich King is all powerful, infnite in Necromacny powers etc etc but ime not one to say Lich King is omnipotent even if the RPG which utrigos cluches to does say such hyperbole.
because there are no facts behind the Lich King ,there ARE only ifs and maybe, thats probably why you and Becci are failing in arguments atm, massively due to your lack of knowledge on the current Lich King which is very well because he is not massively documented.
No, you dont need to be blizzard employees for that, perhaps if you read the argument again? you seem to have a problem with this, here let me help you:
I said Becci's arguments and yours fall flat because your saying facts about things, like how Elune, Aspects, etc etc will definatley not be doing something that you dont know, therefore only a Blizzard employee/story editer will know what happens in the Lich King fight, what happens, what he faces, it doesnt matter how much lore you know, it wont help you there, you can only do those wonderful assumptions which you have shown you hate so much.
No they dont, they seem to help when ever they wish, if the mortal races could knock Archimonde down, they surely would not need help against the maddened Malygos by the red flight, hell the red dragons have seen enough how the mortal races are falling before the scourge, i think personally they are safe guarding their own lives, knowing an aspect is no match for the Lich King and how catastophic a loss of an aspect would be. An undead Aspect wouldnt guard its elements thats for sure.
Ive read several novels, and have light and shadow, Manuel of monsters and horde/alliance RPG lore which Utrigos lent me. Ive played all the warcraft games and even know old lore that Becci has seemed to have forgotten/not read. Ive read the game manuels, but all this is rubbish in the face of what the debate is about, understanding and having read a large collection of material is completly diffrent, both you and Becci suffer from the lack of being able to understand that your own assumptions no matter how much you feel you know about a character is not FACT and that the Lich King has made no massive moves, he is simply probably given more statments of power such as "unfathomable, all powerful, one of the most powerful in the universe" etc etc than most beings in Warcraft.
well yes i can accuse anyone of stupidity, since your the one who cannot bring together any of your own arguments, you are simply asking questions now that half of which are simply drawring out the fact you probably have no arguments on knowledge on the situation at hand, which is likely true since you dont read any arguments it seems before attacking one.....you seem to know very little, and by saying Alex does not guard life spits on your knowledge as well and shows your lack of knowledge.
The scourge? that shouldnt be on the list, the scourge were not defeated at all, where were you for the past games and lore? did you miss most of the human kingdom smashed? a race destroyed perhaps? the Lich King meeting all his goals?
The mortals have not beaten back the scourge, the scourge would wipe out the world if it was not for immortal forces/the lich king waiting, apprently the armies around icecrown alone are in the hundreds of thousands.
yet you cant use any of its worth in this debate, the books ive not read them all, I know of the Dragon/demon soul, I know of many of these major events so they are not news to me......
Their role is to safeguard the world, Malygos is a problem ,so they have to stop him, Deathwing a problem, they have to stop him, Lich King is a problem they should stop him, but likely dont want to lose their minds and souls.
But theyve not handled anything.....theyve got most of their kingdoms and armies in ruins and have lost many races, theres undead across most of Azeroth and in most sections, Eastern/western plagelands, theres undead across the world, the Lich Kings armies are far greater than anything in Azeroth thats mortal, you think the Horde/alliance combiend armies after all this could take on troop numbers in the hundreds of thousands?
The lich king as ive said is just waiting, the guy and his armies however if the mortals were alone in this war and no aspect nor immortal force were to help them would simply turn to ash and rubble and rise as the undead they failed to defeat.
a counter argument is usually given for an argument, I will not result to mocking the entire board and forum by calling your points arguments.
Originally posted by Becci
You have no idea what you are talking about. Read some books and you will realise just how wrong you are at so many points that it is just ridiculous. I am personally embaressed to see how little you know and if you ever realise how many points you are wrong at, you too will feel pretty ridiculous.
Fascist crusader stolen your account?
typical "ime right, your points are all wrong, come back when you realise how ime never wrong and all my points are right"
come back when you learn how to debate, the diffrence between facts and opinions and ofcourse, most of all, when you actually have some arguments in the first place, otherwise your almsot trolling in a way.
Nothing i said was wrong, if it is, debate dont troll please
Originally posted by Burning thought
Fascist crusader stolen your account?typical "ime right, your points are all wrong, come back when you realise how ime never wrong and all my points are right"
come back when you learn how to debate, the diffrence between facts and opinions and ofcourse, most of all, when you actually have some arguments in the first place, otherwise your almsot trolling in a way.
Nothing i said was wrong, if it is, [b]debate
dont troll please [/B]
You are the one telling everyone to learn how to debate. You are the one that would be trolling if anyone. I am just stating fact. Fact is that you have no idea what you are talking about.
It is more likely that you will get the assistance of HOGGER than Alexstrasza and Elune against Lich King 😐 You are clueless about what you are talking about. You are using WOWWIKI as a source! WOWWIKI! A WIKI!
You are using WIKI to disprove people that have read all the books!
Originally posted by Becci
You are the one telling everyone to learn how to debate. You are the one that would be trolling if anyone. I am just stating fact. Fact is that you have no idea what you are talking about.It is more likely that you will get the assistance of HOGGER than Alexstrasza and Elune against Lich King 😐 You are clueless about what you are talking about. You are using WOWWIKI as a source! WOWWIKI! A WIKI!
You are using WIKI to disprove people that have read all the books!
No thats opinion, its only fact when youve proven through debating that I have no idea, so therefore by stating it over and over without debating anything is a troll, sry Fascist but your not fooling anyone, let Becci back on the machine and maybe she will actually have an argument.
well its obvious that i need to, since:
A: youve got zero showable sources so instantly WoWwiki is better than nothing and has a ton of references, what are your refrences?
B: you can show me nothing and considering your ridiculous view of what a fact is, ime definaltey not going by your idea, and as ive said before, when the book "rise of the Lich King " comes out then maybe ill heed it especially if theres quotes, until then keep your assumtions to yourself and learn what a fact is since the current Lich King has not made any major moves.
C: therefore go buy a scanner
D: you seem to have a crude, incredibly high number of assumptions and have shown you cannot see the diffrent between fact and opinion, ill need someone to show me the book so i can see for myself that your not creating facts and assumptions from your oh so vast knowledge of reading the books.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No thats opinion, its only fact when youve proven through debating that I have no idea, so therefore by stating it over and over without debating anything is a troll, sry Fascist but your not fooling anyone, let Becci back on the machine and maybe she will actually have an argument.well its obvious that i need to, since:
A: youve got zero showable sources so instantly WoWwiki is better than nothing and has a ton of references, what are your refrences?
B: you can show me nothing and considering your ridiculous view of what a fact is, ime definaltey not going by your idea, and as ive said before, when the book "rise of the Lich King " comes out then maybe ill heed it especially if theres quotes, until then keep your assumtions to yourself and learn what a fact is since the current Lich King has not made any major moves.
C: therefore go buy a scanner
D: you seem to have a crude, incredibly high number of assumptions and have shown you cannot see the diffrent between fact and opinion, ill need someone to show me the book so i can see for myself that your not creating facts and assumptions from your oh so vast knowledge of reading the books.
You want me to show you why Alexstrasza would not be part of the Lich King's battle? I would not even have to explain Elune since you know that answer as well as I do.
Originally posted by Becci
You want me to show you why Alexstrasza would not be part of the Lich King's battle? I would not even have to explain Elune since you know that answer as well as I do.
I dont know about Elune, I cant imagine SHE will not be battling, but her power may influeance the fight anyway.
But yes please show me why Alex will not be, or one of the other flights.
1. Ysera is in the Emerald Dream
2. Malygos is mad/defeated
3. Nozdormu will obviously not be part of the fight
4. Neltharion is even more obvious
5. Alexstrasza- See attachment:
"And what will you do?"
"I? I will watch. I will watch over what can be our triumph.... or our final bloody defeat"
What you see there is a red dragon telling a blue dragon that he will watch what either will be the end of the world, or a victory and he has no intentions in helping.
That doesnt tell me much ,sorry but first your not pointing out that this is Alex saying that are you, thats just a red dragon, for all i know due to that piece of info it could be corrupt, it could be anything, it could just be a doubter. You cant really say thats what Alex is going to say, she isnt standing there watching Maylgos going mad and saying "oh well, let him destroy the mages".
Malygos no ofc not BUT, Nozmordu may join in of he so wishes, he is fully capable, Ysera surely she can come out of the dream, Neltharian, well strangely enough he may be an interesting choice, since after his defeats he is still not considered dead, perhaps he returns and wants more power, the Lich king has it all, go and get him he may be thinking, either way its possible even if its unlikely.
But that piece is no evidence of Alex' behavior and several other sources such as them stopping Malygos and other dangers contradict this, as well as the overall job. Then again perhaps your right, pehraps as i said in my above post to Dark C, the aspects are unable to do anything to the Lich King, he is just too powerful for them and so can only sit and watch.
Probably hope Elune does something or Lich King loses his power some way.
aslo i zoomed in on that tiny image, it doesnt look like the dragons saying that? the boxes are too small or is it in another language? its very hard and blurred but it definatley doesnt look like what yoursaying he is saying.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Jesus you prob dont read any of the posts before you debate points, this is a debate and its your place to actually try and understand what the arguments were and who they were coming from, what your saying there and now is A: crushing your buddy Becci's comment (or was it Utrigos) on the same point ime mocking and B: therefore your making a fool of yourself and confusing this debate by messing up who is debating what.
That's why I ASKED, remember? Great way to acknowledge. I wouldn't be calling someone else a fool, considering how many times I've had to keep you on track.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Azeroth will fall, no mortals or army of them could take on canonically the enormous undying hordes of the Lich King, it would take vast Dragon support/aspects and other forces to take the army alone,
Are you under the impression that the army of Undead (originating from the corpses and battlefield casualties of both sides of Azeroth alone) is greater than the Burning Legion? Remember, Sargeras came to many worlds before he found Azeroth, and he either conquered and devoured or twisted the inhabitants to his own will, adding them to his own forces.
Even before that he scoured far and wide around the UNIVERSE to find his army. His numbers are those of multiple worlds. In the War of the Ancients novels you would see the kind of scale that his army was on. The Scourge army is absolutely nothing in comparison. You have absolutely no idea of how large it actually was considering you haven't seem to have read those books, so I'll enlighten you a little:
After the countless demons passing through by the second book and fighting the defenders, one of the night elf commanders of the host says:
"By the gods, have we not made a dent in their forces yet?"
Krasus: "Yes we have....but it is a very, very small dent."
Another part describes a "sea" of demons stretching back from the front line to the very HORIZON in the distance.
Since when, historically, has the Army of the Dead fielded such an incredibly massive force? Simple. It has not. Azeroth has survived FAR worse than the Scourge army, mark my words.
Originally posted by Burning thought
then youve got the Lich King himself. Sargerus turned out not to be much of a threat at all, his avatar crushed, his plans in ruins and him thrown out into the void.
You seem to act like you know more about Sargeras when you actually don't. His avatar was but a small shadow of his power, the full power of his physical and spiritual being locked away in a nether region between planes. Historically, when Malfurion and Illidan collapsed the final portal, Sargeras made the mistake of attempting to step through anyways and was trapped in a bubble between worlds. When the portal disappeared, Sargeras did not die, but was trapped. Even then he managed to physically exist in Azeroth to some point and create a manifestation of himself, but because of his limited power Aegwynn was able to defeat him ably.
Not much of a threat at all? Go back to where you told me to read posts properly and ask yourself how you have the stones to tell other people that. Like I said before and that you seem to have ignored yet again, his army, the one with so many demons as to be near infinite in nature is nothing to him. I will quote the book directly here.
Commander: "What does it matter if he just stays where he is and directs him?"
Korialstrasz: "The Burning Legion is but a shadow of his terrible darkness. Trust in me that we have hope even if every demon who serves him steps through, but no hope if we defeat all only to have him step into our world."
Originally posted by Burning thought
Wheras weve got Lich King before most of his power gaining and smashing most of the world, knocking human civlisation down the drain and kicking aside the high elves, almost making them extinct and in a way succeeding in that by them becoming Blood elves.
Where does he say that he "smashes most of the world"? The only place he even affected were the northern parts of Lordaeron, Quel'thalas and some parts of Kalimdor. Whereas you see agents and forces of the Burning Legion scattered all over the world. Stop overhyping the Lich King.
Go back and go read your WarCraft III: RoC game manual history, please.
The threat of Sargeras threatened to destroy the whole world as we know it, not just ambitions but actual actions. He didn't just destroy civilisation, or just one or two races. His army put the whole WORLD into calamity, that's why every single race banded together to fight him.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Wow, that makes the entire question of Sarg vs Lich King answered, thanks Krasus, words from some dragon do not make your argument, so what?
The word of a single dragon who is in his own right as wise and smart as the Aspects themselves and has been through both wars. He's describing someone else, not himself. His judgement is not clouded.
A pathetic retort of yours here, I must say.
Originally posted by Burning thought
theres words that state the LK, narrators words as well not a dragon whos personality, time of him saying it and many other things coming into the reason he is saying it, which said the Lich King is [b]all powerful, infnite in Necromacny powers etc etc but ime not one to say Lich King is omnipotent even if the RPG which utrigos cluches to does say such hyperbole.[/b]
If this is Arthas just talking about himself, it kind of defies the point, since Illidan was also shooting his mouth off in the TBC opening movie.
Originally posted by Burning thought
because there are no facts behind the Lich King ,there [b]ARE only ifs and maybe, [/b]
Go figure.
Originally posted by Burning thought
thats probably why you and Becci are failing in arguments atm, massively due to your lack of knowledge on the current Lich King which is very well because he is not massively documented.
I'd think very hard indeed about what you're trying to say here. That statement was stupid on multiple levels. I'm sure any debators worth half their salt would agree. Arguments need backup, as in solid facts and figures, not guesses and maybes.
Originally posted by Burning thought
I said Becci's arguments and yours fall flat because your saying facts about things, like how Elune, Aspects, etc etc will definatley not be doing something that you dont know
We based our arguments upon evidence where things have already happened, the circumstances that made them happen, etc. What have you to offer?
"THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE DEFINITIELY GOING TO SOMETHING THAT YOU DONT KNOW"
"Um, yeah they definitely won't be and that's a fact. You see, they barely got up off their asses to help the lesser races for things far worse than this in the past. Understand?"
There's the entire argument in two sentences.
Originally posted by Burning thought
therefore only a Blizzard employee/story editer will know what happens in the Lich King fight, what happens, what he faces, it doesnt matter how much lore you know, it wont help you there
Stop your mindless rambling please.
Originally posted by Burning thought
you can only do those wonderful assumptions which you have shown you hate so much.
I only criticise your USE of those assumptions in what is supposed to be a black and white debate, which of course is utterly ridiculous.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No they dont, they seem to help when ever they wish, if the mortal races could knock Archimonde down they surely would not need help against the maddened Malygos by the red flight,
Archimonde is pretty much just fodder for the Aspect of Magic. The demon is powerful....just not THAT powerful.
Originally posted by Burning thought
hell the red dragons have seen enough how the mortal races are falling before the scourge, i think personally they are safe guarding their own lives
"Yeah, I think I'll just cover my ass and happily let the people do what they will."
Makes a whole lot of sense, right? Right?
Wrong.
Originally posted by Burning thought
knowing an aspect is no match for the Lich King and how catastophic a loss of an aspect would be. An undead Aspect wouldnt guard its elements thats for sure.
Originally posted by Burning thought
but all this is rubbish in the face of what the debate is about, understanding and having read a large collection of material is completly diffrent, both you and Becci suffer from the lack of being able to understand that your own assumptions no matter how much you feel you know about a character is not [b]FACT[/b]
What has happened in the books is FACT.
Passing that up as simply just "rubbish" is enormously stupid. We're dealing with facts here, according to you, yet you have no actual facts to contribute thus far. Such hypocrisy. History MATTERS here, as they provide insight to characters and events.
Without FACTS anyone could jump in and start speculating, which you already seem to have done. FACTS make the argument, not some weak maybes.
Originally posted by Burning thought
and that the Lich King has made no massive moves, he is simply probably given more statments of power such as "unfathomable, all powerful, one of the most powerful in the universe" etc etc
Originally posted by Burning thought
than most beings in Warcraft.
And who else is above him but a select few? There's your point. More powerful beings than him have been vanquished. Sargeras among them.
Originally posted by Burning thought
well yes i can accuse anyone of stupidity, since your the one who cannot bring together any of your own arguments
Learn to read my posts properly. I shouldn't have to ask you this.
Originally posted by Burning thought
you are simply asking questions now that half of which are simply drawring out the fact you probably have no arguments on knowledge on the situation at hand which is likely true since you dont read any arguments it seems before attacking one.....you seem to know very little
Originally posted by Burning thought
and by saying Alex does not guard life spits on your knowledge as well and shows your lack of knowledge.
Like I have told you before, very clearly, Neltharion's official title was the Earth-Warder, HE was tasked with safeguarding the world, as was his flight. With his flight scattered and him going crazy and disappearing no one has officially adopted that title and has done something about it. Out of all the dragons, Korialstrasz was the only one that actively gets involved in mortal matters and does things about it.
My "lack" of knowledge, indeed. Hah.
Originally posted by Burning thought
The scourge? that shouldnt be on the list, the scourge were not defeated at all, where were you for the past games and lore?
Like the Legion they will forever remain a blight upon Azeroth unless totally defeated but like the Legion they pose no immediate and serious threat to Azeroth on a world-destructive scale. There is more Legion activity than undead activity, the only difference being that Legion activity is more subtle and diverse. While the Scourge...well, act like Scourge.
Originally posted by Burning thought
did you miss most of the human kingdom smashed? a race destroyed perhaps? the Lich King meeting all his goals?
-The Blood Elves took a huge blow, they weren't completely destroyed. Hell, even their capital city wasn't even completely razed. Also, the Night Elves were in a worse situation before, look at where they are at now, alive and prospering.
-The Lich King is not sole ruler of the world, nor is every single person on Azeroth undead and bent to his will, therefore he has NOT achieved all his goals.
Fail.
Originally posted by Burning thought
The mortals have not beaten back the scourge, the scourge would wipe out the world if it was not for immortal forces/the lich king waiting, apprently the armies around icecrown alone are in the hundreds of thousands.
Originally posted by Burning thought
yet you cant use any of its worth in this debate
Originally posted by Burning thought
the books ive not read them all, I know of the Dragon/demon soul, I know of many of these major events so they are not news to me......
Originally posted by Burning thought
Their role is to safeguard the world, Malygos is a problem ,so they have to stop him, Deathwing a problem, they have to stop him
A.) They know how to deal with their own brethren best, out of anyone else.
B.) They know better than anyone exactly what kind of destruction or effects that their deranged kin can cause.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Lich King is a problem they should stop him, but likely dont want to lose their minds and souls.
Originally posted by Burning thought
But theyve not handled anything.....theyve got most of their kingdoms and armies in ruins and have lost many races
Originally posted by Burning thought
theres undead across most of Azeroth and in most sections, Eastern/western plagelands, theres undead across the world
That's funny, I don't seem to remember any major Scourge presence in lower Azeroth or the entire continent of Kalimdor. Refresh my memory.
Originally posted by Burning thought
the Lich Kings armies are far greater than anything in Azeroth thats mortal, you think the Horde/alliance combiend armies after all this could take on troop numbers in the hundreds of thousands?[
By the way, where the hell are you getting your numbers from?
Originally posted by Burning thought
The lich king as ive said is just waiting, the guy and his armies however if the mortals were alone in this war and no aspect nor immortal force were to help them would simply turn to ash and rubble and rise as the undead they failed to defeat.
You're still dealing with "if"s I see.
Originally posted by Burning thought
a counter argument is usually given for an argument, I will not result to mocking the entire board and forum by calling your points arguments.