ill have a look, but as i said, it does not matter at all, Alex' nature is kind and loving, whether she is going to do something or not about the coming ending of the world we will have to see, theres no way shes going to just sit by if Lich King starts knocking out everything and Blizzard can use who they like regardless of their personality in battle, if they can put 25 men against the lich King and in so doing, mocking the fact LK would splatter them with ease, they can put Alex in. But thank you Utrigita, something worthile.
For the future, if anyone is getting quotes from MoM, Shadows and light or ally/horde compedium, give the page number please. Ive got them .
Whats funny is that the same background info your using Noz is another piece of info that says the dragons were even argueing how to guard the world...
Now, can you give evidence of what "today" means? whens today? you realise that book is from years ago so by today they mean the year 2004 and events then, back when Sargeras was corrupted, not the corruptor. BUt none of that about her states that she will not attempt against the Lich King and once again, Malygos who is a threat to humankind now has taken her attension as well, that is intervening. So your soruce is contradicted by a newer one.
I dont know it all, but according to you guys apprently Alex has become not so kind and caring so i would like to see your evidence, imo I think shes the same as always, she is a possible helper against the LK but i doubt Blizzard will do that, it would be boring, I think a blessing from Elune or Kiljaeden would be better. But as long as sometihng has changed and the fact its incredibly old is enough to point out that Blizzard DO change their stories.
Thats because the only thing that has changed major in warcraft is the Eredar and there connection, else all the handbooks contains information about the Characters Background and there powerset. I'm not saying that the Combat should be used but when a site, that is directly owned and administrated by Blizzard, advises newcomers to the lore to read the RPG Handbooks, then they from Blizzards point of view contains accurate information about the lore. They change the stories just not major, they expand there stories they doesn't directly retcon them they change a detail here a minor one here much like marvel ore DC. The only major change that is between the handbooks and the WoW is the relationship between the Eredar and the Burning Legion ofcause a lot of new beings have been introduced which I think is the reason new RPG books are currently being written. That you think they are outdated that is your problem, I will stick to what wowwiki and Worldofwarcraft.com says about them and the last mention website specificly trumph your opinion that you will ore cannot accept what the handbook writs is not important since they are Canon unless Blizzard have directly changed the story of that Race ore Character which again so far have happen only to the Eredar and there connection to the Legion. As for Alexstrasza I cannot comment apon it since it's a discussion you are having with Nozdormu but the reason I see her intervene is because of her promise to Rhonin in the "Days of the Dragon".
If you have the books, Burning Thought... Why do you have to question so many of our statements? Havent you read the books?
If you think Alexstrasza's personality is altered in World of Warcraft, I'd like to see an official source stating this.. Otherwise her good old personality will still stand and she will not interfear in the battle against the Lich King..
Originally posted by Utrigita
Thats because the only thing that has changed major in warcraft is the Eredar and there connection, else all the handbooks contains information about the Characters Background and there powerset. I'm not saying that the Combat should be used but when a site, that is directly owned and administrated by Blizzard, advises newcomers to the lore to read the RPG Handbooks, then they from Blizzards point of view contains accurate information about the lore. They change the stories just not major, they expand there stories they doesn't directly retcon them they change a detail here a minor one here much like marvel ore DC. The only major change that is between the handbooks and the WoW is the relationship between the Eredar and the Burning Legion ofcause a lot of new beings have been introduced which I think is the reason new RPG books are currently being written. That you think they are outdated that is your problem, I will stick to what wowwiki and Worldofwarcraft.com says about them and the last mention website specificly trumph your opinion that you will ore cannot accept what the handbook writs is not important since they are Canon unless Blizzard have directly changed the story of that Race ore Character which again so far have happen only to the Eredar and there connection to the Legion. As for Alexstrasza I cannot comment apon it since it's a discussion you are having with Nozdormu but the reason I see her intervene is because of her promise to Rhonin in the "Days of the Dragon".
Regardless, as you said many things have been added, that may influence information, new books or newer books like Brann bronzebeards RPG books like the "land of Mystery" (where the 250k army around icecrown is apprently stated), you can use the books but not as 100% evidence for events today. The Lich King is not something the flights can just watch and do nothing about, but the flights helping is just one option Blizzard could use, there can be others like ive stated.
Ime not saying everything in the books are wrong, just not as factual as the official WOTLK website for example, if WOTLK website said exacltey what your saying i would take it without question because its new 100% correct lore, not from ancient RPG books that will likely be replaced by the new books their writing now.
However half of the statements you guys are argueing are mostly your own opinion, not the RPG books factual statement, if youve got a factual statement to make, give me the page number and quote it so I can go have a look and I may consider it regardless of how old it is.
Originally posted by Nozdormu
If you have the books, Burning Thought... Why do you have to question so many of our statements? Havent you read the books?If you think Alexstrasza's personality is altered in World of Warcraft, I'd like to see an official source stating this.. Otherwise her good old personality will still stand and she will not interfear in the battle against the Lich King..
I dont have all the books, i have those 3 i stated, MOM, Shadows and light and horde/ally compedium. Ive also got one called the last guardian i think tis called, where Jaina and Thrall want to try and get the horde together and for some reason that i cant remember try and find Aegewyn.
But your statements are assumptions, your still only assuming ,you dont know shes definaltey not going to help, it would be like watching Archimonde smashing and killing and not doing anything but the flights did help in the war of the ancients.
Ime the one saying her "kind and caring nature for people" is still alive and that she will indeed help people if he starts going on the march and destoying, and furthermore she already has presence for Malygos in Northrend so she may try and hit two birds with one stone which would make sense.
She did help in the War of the Ancients, yes.. That was before Neltharion's backstab.. Later on, she did the said statement where she decided to remain strictly neutral in wars.. Have you ever seen her interfear in combat after the war of the ancients?
Alexstrasza help Malygos because:
1. Fellow aspect
2. She ow Kirin Tor a favor
She doesnt go after Lich King because:
1. It is not her fight
2. It is not her fight
Originally posted by Burning thought
Regardless, as you said many things have been added, that may influence information, new books or newer books like Brann bronzebeards RPG books like the "land of Mystery" (where the 250k army around icecrown is apprently stated), you can use the books but not as 100% evidence for events today. The Lich King is not something the flights can just watch and do nothing about, but the flights helping is just one option Blizzard could use, there can be others like ive stated.Ime not saying everything in the books are wrong, just not as factual as the official WOTLK website for example, if WOTLK website said exacltey what your saying i would take it without question because its new 100% correct lore, not from ancient RPG books that will likely be replaced by the new books their writing now.
However half of the statements you guys are argueing are mostly your own opinion, not the RPG books factual statement, if youve got a factual statement to make, give me the page number and quote it so I can go have a look and I may consider it regardless of how old it is.
Yes many Characters has been added nothing new lore concerning the main Characters background that is mentioned in Shadows and Light for instance ore MoM for that case. Yes I can if it's concerning a being in which the development in the world of warcraft has been entirely nonexistent the last couple of years such a example is Malygos, he has been inactive since the beginning of the World of Warcraft, it is first now he is beginning to show himself. Therefore I have no reason to believe anything has changed about him, except he has become more powerful. And Again in your opinion I cannot use the Books as 100% canon/lore WorldofWarcraft disagrees, hence I'm sticking to what they are saying.
And what is the WOTLK site saying that directly contradicts what I have been bringing to the board? Also you misunderstood me, the new books are not being written to directly replace the old ones but to add to the RPG the numerous new beings, and there stories etc, that have entered World of Warcraft since the release back in 2004, Dark'Than, Anveena, Balnazzar The Soulflayer the Naaru, the Draenei (Velen), that is the reason a new is being make not to change anything about the old ones.
And you own isn't BT? I see quiet alot of if's in your own arguments in reality you isn't a inch better then us, since you yourself isn't very good at providing sources for your assumptions, take the Example earlier in the thread where me and Becci argued for the lich king magical capacity we brought fact concerning his minions and his transformation to the board you brought speculation on that he may still had the Holy Light but you couldn't support it. If it's considered Canon currently whether ore not you agree with it is entirely unimportant this isn't a pick and choose marked BT, I accept the RPG because that is what is stated on a official site concerning the Lore, can you show me a official site that confirms what is written on a FAQ site is Lore? Because if you "hold" the right to say what is canon and what is not then there is no reason why I should accept the FAQ for all I know it could have been written by a Webmaster that doesn't even know who he is writting about, he is just looking at a list of frecauntly asked questions and answers then out from what sounds good and what will make people check the site and play the game. Wowwiki for instance doesn't take a FAQ as a valid source of information.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes many Characters has been added nothing new lore concerning the main Characters background that is mentioned in Shadows and Light for instance ore MoM for that case. Yes I can if it's concerning a being in which the development in the world of warcraft has been entirely nonexistent the last couple of years such a example is Malygos, he has been inactive since the beginning of the World of Warcraft, it is first now he is beginning to show himself. Therefore I have no reason to believe anything has changed about him, except he has become more powerful. And Again in your opinion I cannot use the Books as 100% canon/lore WorldofWarcraft disagrees, hence I'm sticking to what they are saying.And what is the WOTLK site saying that directly contradicts what I have been bringing to the board? Also you misunderstood me, the new books are not being written to directly replace the old ones but to add to the RPG the numerous new beings, and there stories etc, that have entered World of Warcraft since the release back in 2004, Dark'Than, Anveena, Balnazzar The Soulflayer the Naaru, the Draenei (Velen), that is the reason a new is being make not to change anything about the old ones.
And you own isn't BT? I see quiet alot of if's in your own arguments in reality you isn't a inch better then us, since you yourself isn't very good at providing sources for your assumptions, take the Example earlier in the thread where me and Becci argued for the lich king magical capacity we brought fact concerning his minions and his transformation to the board you brought speculation on that he may still had the Holy Light but you couldn't support it. If it's considered Canon currently whether ore not you agree with it is entirely unimportant this isn't a pick and choose marked BT, I accept the RPG because that is what is stated on a official site concerning the Lore, can you show me a official site that confirms what is written on a FAQ site is Lore? Because if you "hold" the right to say what is canon and what is not then there is no reason why I should accept the FAQ for all I know it could have been written by a Webmaster that doesn't even know who he is writting about, he is just looking at a list of frecauntly asked questions and answers then out from what sounds good and what will make people check the site and play the game. Wowwiki for instance doesn't take a FAQ as a valid source of information.
Nothing states him becoming more powerful from what ive read, he simply was weak when Deathwing took away his power, then regained it, now hes mad, his flight was destroyed so i guess he should be.
You misunderstand, i didnt mean the site disagrees, ime saying the site "would" be better proof because its new, its now and its more viable for example, i was simply saying in my eyes the book being ancient and in front of so many events that its not as bullet proof as a source like the official site, also the book can be wrong, ive read from about 5 diffrent people on forums that Bob Firtch (never heard of the guy before the forums) who designed the books should have made LK an eternal and that it was a mistake that he didnt, although i cannot find the main article where he says so himself.
But thats the thing, ime fairly humble with my arguments as everyone in this debate should be, ime not saying theres FACT that LK is so much more powerful than the aspects or that he could take out azeroth with ease, ime making it clear that their my opinion, wheras people like Dark C and Becci have said so many things as fact htat are not fact, you have to have an open mind in this debate and the fact that ime on the side of the character who IS really all theory atm until theres more solid evidence its not fair to ask for anymore than theory and at the same time, its ridiculous to belive your or anyones opinions against him getting beating by a character are also "ifs" and "maybes".
You brought fact that he was transformed, yet i wanted evidence that the light or powers of it can just disapear, however all this was absolved and you proved they were gone by showing how the sword corrupted his holy powers. Whats considered canon?
The FAQ IS part of the official site, everything on an official site is canon lol, otherwise the site wouldnt be official. Oh please, regardless of who the guy is who made the FAQ, its official, same with this Bob Filth wally who forgot to add eternal template next to the LK it seems, not everything is fool proof in creating lore, but an FAQ is taken as it says, you cant say if WC 4 comes out and has something you dont like on it that the developers must have been scratching their @sses while developing it or something and therefore dont have a clue or the development team had no idea, its just done as its done. You cant lie in an FAQ of all things and its better because its recent as well.
WoWwiki says little on official site FAQ's, infact it doesnt directly state FAQ's does it? i didnt see it
Originally posted by Nozdormu
She did help in the War of the Ancients, yes.. That was before Neltharion's backstab.. Later on, she did the said statement where she decided to remain strictly neutral in wars.. Have you ever seen her interfear in combat after the war of the ancients?Alexstrasza help Malygos because:
1. Fellow aspect
2. She ow Kirin Tor a favorShe doesnt go after Lich King because:
1. It is not her fight
2. It is not her fight
1. fellow aspect or not why should this make the hugest diffrence, and shes not really helping him, shes stopping him from destroying the Kirin Tor and mages, the guy is losing the corruption and madness so technically he is fine, his enemies are not.
2. She owes the worlds living beings her guardianship
1. its everyones fight
2. its everyones fight
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. fellow aspect or not why should this make the hugest diffrence, and shes not really helping him, shes stopping him from destroying the Kirin Tor and mages, the guy is losing the corruption and madness so technically he is fine, his enemies are not.2. She owes the worlds living beings her guardianship
1. its everyones fight
2. its everyones fight
1. She is helping him against himself. You consider it defeating, I consider it helping. And you are right. She is helping the Kirin Tor. Because she is returning the favor. The Kirin Tor saved her life and she was in debt. Now she saves their life.
2. She doesnt. She declared herself strictly neutral a long time ago. Just because she is the guardian of life does not mean she will kill everyone that threaten life. Which was why she was no part of the Second War (Which would have lead to the end of the world had not Malfurion saved the day). Besides, Lich King is living too. What make his life less valuable than others?
1. It is not her fight. She does not interfear because it is not part of her personality. If you say this is "altered", then please show me the source saying that she has a new personality in WoW. In fact, show me the source anyway. I know that certain things are altered, but I'd like to see your list of what is changed and not.
2. If you think she will involve herself in the Lich King fight just because she is "nearby", think again. She could be nearby anytime she wants. She just doesnt care about the Lich King.
Originally posted by Nozdormu
1. She is helping him against himself. You consider it defeating, I consider it helping. And you are right. She is helping the Kirin Tor. Because she is returning the favor. The Kirin Tor saved her life and she was in debt. Now she saves their life.2. She doesnt. She declared herself strictly neutral a long time ago. Just because she is the guardian of life does not mean she will kill everyone that threaten life. Which was why she was no part of the Second War (Which would have lead to the end of the world had not Malfurion saved the day). Besides, Lich King is living too. What make his life less valuable than others?
1. It is not her fight. She does not interfear because it is not part of her personality. If you say this is "altered", then please show me the source saying that she has a new personality in WoW. In fact, show me the source anyway. I know that certain things are altered, but I'd like to see your list of what is changed and not.
2. If you think she will involve herself in the Lich King fight just because she is "nearby", think again. She could be nearby anytime she wants. She just doesnt care about the Lich King.
1. Shes not helping Malygos at all, he simply has a job to do, the fact it means smashing people means it infringes on damaging her role and ofc the Kirin Tor pact of her helping them.
2. The lich King is an undead, no more living technically than full dead, and no, not every thing, but the quarter of a million LK has in icecrown alone and the likes of which could easily blot out and turn the whole of the world into full dead is more than enough to call upon the guardian of life.
1. Nothing has altered at all, its always been "loving and caring" which is why shes the life guardian, and why she would want to save Azeroth
2. not really, lol nearby any time she wants, she has presence in Northrend now, she should fight Lich King, likelyness is she has no chance and knows it, so she will not risk it but its still an option, lol show me official proof she doesnt care about the Lich King? she prob just doesnt want to die and knows her dieing would cause more damage than her simply allowing things to go along until a higher power steps in like Kiljaeden, Elune, Pantheon member etc etc
Originally posted by Burning thought
Nothing states him becoming more powerful from what ive read, he simply was weak when Deathwing took away his power, then regained it, now hes mad, his flight was destroyed so i guess he should be.You misunderstand, i didnt mean the site disagrees, ime saying the site "would" be better proof because its new, its now and its more viable for example, i was simply saying in my eyes the book being ancient and in front of so many events that its not as bullet proof as a source like the official site, also the book can be wrong, ive read from about 5 diffrent people on forums that Bob Firtch (never heard of the guy before the forums) who designed the books should have made LK an eternal and that it was a mistake that he didnt, although i cannot find the main article where he says so himself.
But thats the thing, ime fairly humble with my arguments as everyone in this debate should be, ime not saying theres [b]FACT
that LK is so much more powerful than the aspects or that he could take out azeroth with ease, ime making it clear that their my opinion, wheras people like Dark C and Becci have said so many things as fact htat are not fact, you have to have an open mind in this debate and the fact that ime on the side of the character who IS really all theory atm until theres more solid evidence its not fair to ask for anymore than theory and at the same time, its ridiculous to belive your or anyones opinions against him getting beating by a character are also "ifs" and "maybes".You brought fact that he was transformed, yet i wanted evidence that the light or powers of it can just disapear, however all this was absolved and you proved they were gone by showing how the sword corrupted his holy powers. Whats considered canon?
The FAQ IS part of the official site, everything on an official site is canon lol, otherwise the site wouldnt be official. Oh please, regardless of who the guy is who made the FAQ, its official, same with this Bob Filth wally who forgot to add eternal template next to the LK it seems, not everything is fool proof in creating lore, but an FAQ is taken as it says, you cant say if WC 4 comes out and has something you dont like on it that the developers must have been scratching their @sses while developing it or something and therefore dont have a clue or the development team had no idea, its just done as its done. You cant lie in an FAQ of all things and its better because its recent as well.
WoWwiki says little on official site FAQ's, infact it doesnt directly state FAQ's does it? i didnt see it[/B]
Except that from the Handbook we know that he trains his skills pretty much constantly.
Again that is the Opinion of a Writer, in marvel he would hold a certain level of crediability however that isn't the case concerning Blizzard where only there books Games etc are consideret lore, the rest is opinions. Again in your eyes, your opinion on how relevant the book is, is entirely unimportant the moment they are removed from WorldofWarcraft website ore otherwise retconned into not containing accurate information about the lore then they are inuseable until that statemant is made however...
Even though the Lich King is a theory based Character there is no reason to begin giving him power that he in no way should be capable of gaining access to, furthermore you speculated (agreed) that he could mindcontrol Malygos however The Lich King has shown that in order for him to mentally dominate human beings (elf humans etc) they have to be undead, there was no reason to believe that had changed. At Least we can provide statemants concerning oure Characters, what for the most part leaves this Debate stranded is the constant speculation.
Canon is a official Blizzard Website.
You misunderstood me, show me that a FAQ which contains far more information about gameplay then lore, can be consideret Canon. See above for the statement by the writer of MoM. So the FAQ which contains only one piece of information about the Lich King "most powerful being" is Lore, well that's new because a FAQ again contains a wealth of information concerning EVERYTHING else then Lore in Warcraft. There is a huge Difference between what I'm saying and what you are saying, A Game is officially consideret Lore everything else would be stupid and maybe I disagree but that's that, you however is drawing forth a FAQ which cannot be compared to a game such as the theoritically Warcraft 4, which would hold the greatest level of crediability BT the game ore the FAQ concerning the game where the FAQ stated that Illidan would return from Outland as the most powerful Demon in the Warcraft Universe, ore the actual game where you in Cinematic see Kil'Jaeden whoop Illidans ass, Can Illidan still be consideret the most powerful Demon in the Warcraft Universe?
Exactly they doesn't even count them in as a useable source.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Except that from the Handbook we know that he trains his skills pretty much constantly.Again that is the Opinion of a Writer, in marvel he would hold a certain level of crediability however that isn't the case concerning Blizzard where only there books Games etc are consideret lore, the rest is opinions. Again in your eyes, your opinion on how relevant the book is, is entirely unimportant the moment they are removed from WorldofWarcraft website ore otherwise retconned into not containing accurate information about the lore then they are inuseable until that statemant is made however...
Even though the Lich King is a theory based Character there is no reason to begin giving him power that he in no way should be capable of gaining access to, furthermore you speculated (agreed) that he could mindcontrol Malygos however The Lich King has shown that in order for him to mentally dominate human beings (elf humans etc) they have to be undead, there was no reason to believe that had changed. At Least we can provide statemants concerning oure Characters, what for the most part leaves this Debate stranded is the constant speculation.
Canon is a official Blizzard Website.
You misunderstood me, show me that a FAQ which contains far more information about gameplay then lore, can be consideret Canon. See above for the statement by the writer of MoM. So the FAQ which contains only one piece of information about the Lich King "most powerful being" is Lore, well that's new because a FAQ again contains a wealth of information concerning EVERYTHING else then Lore in Warcraft. There is a huge Difference between what I'm saying and what you are saying, A Game is officially consideret Lore everything else would be stupid and maybe I disagree but that's that, you however is drawing forth a FAQ which cannot be compared to a game such as the theoritically Warcraft 4, which would hold the greatest level of crediability BT the game ore the FAQ concerning the game where the FAQ stated that Illidan would return from Outland as the most powerful Demon in the Warcraft Universe, ore the actual game where you in Cinematic see Kil'Jaeden whoop Illidans ass, Can Illidan still be consideret the most powerful Demon in the Warcraft Universe?
Exactly they doesn't even count them in as a useable source.
Problem is, Blizzard dont update their website much either, they still have the old story lore on there, where Sargerus is corrupted not the corrupter, so they leave a lot of their old stuff which contributes to my point that not even everything pointing to lore on that site is possibly correct especailly when the site itself has incorrect areas.
Ive not given the LK any power he has not got access to....where? Also no, thats not been shown at all, nothing states he needs to make a human being undead before he can control them, thats an assumption right there. you see...all these assumptions, i may speculate and theorise and ive got good reason to, infact if you look at it without bias, everyone is specuating because by saying your character can beat a character who is almost all theory IS a theory/speculation. Well the information provided for half of your characters is not very good information, theres craps here and there half of which is either obvious or I already know and the rest is like mine ,speculation,opinion although I draw the line when people say something that is their opinion as fact.
Ofc official Blizzard website is, thats why the FAQ is a good source of info regardless who you "speculate" through your dislike of what its saying who designed it.
The FAQ is canon because its on the official site, just like Nexas has become canon Malygos lair because its on the official site, if a fan site hosted that then its not canon until its on an official site for example. An FAQ can say anything, the fact is its official, the FAQ is a questions and answers so it could have info on the LK, lore, a land in the game w/e but its all from Blizzard and its offcial, whoever created it was taked by Blizzard.
Ofcourse not, because as i said earlier, some pieces of information are better, thing is theres not a game out yet for Lich King, soon there will be, but until we see LK getting pwned by something not worthy of beating a being who is considered one of the most powerful in the universe then we can officially state he is not so powerful afterall but until then we cannot.
If it doesnt state anything about it then its really a dud of information, it doesnt have anything on FAQ's. It probably comes under "official" information however since its on an official site.
Originally posted by Burning thought
1. Shes not helping Malygos at all, he simply has a job to do, the fact it means smashing people means it infringes on damaging her role and ofc the Kirin Tor pact of her helping them.2. The lich King is an undead, no more living technically than full dead, and no, not every thing, but the quarter of a million LK has in icecrown alone and the likes of which could easily blot out and turn the whole of the world into full dead is more than enough to call upon the guardian of life.
1. Nothing has altered at all, its always been "loving and caring" which is why shes the life guardian, and why she would want to save Azeroth
2. not really, lol nearby any time she wants, she has presence in Northrend now, she should fight Lich King, likelyness is she has no chance and knows it, so she will not risk it but its still an option, lol show me official proof she doesnt care about the Lich King? she prob just doesnt want to die and knows her dieing would cause more damage than her simply allowing things to go along until a higher power steps in like Kiljaeden, Elune, Pantheon member etc etc
1. You say defeat, I say help. They both are the same in this situation.
2. The Lich King has never died. How can he be undead? And as hard as it may be for you to understand, it is an Azerothian war and Alexstrasza will not involve herself in it. The only reason she is in Northrend to begin with is because she is in debt to Kirin Tor and Kirin Tor is endangered by Malygos and not Lich King. Malygos is a far greater threat than Lich King to begin with.
1. Nothing has changed? Then why would she bother fighting the Lich King? It is after all a war between people of Azeroth. The same kind of war that she said she would stay out of. She did not break her words during the 2nd war. Why would she break them now? The Lich King is not more of a threat now than then.
2. You once more show that you do not know much about the Aspect of life. She doesnt care, because it is not her fight. Do you want me to bring up the "Strictly neutral to war" quote again?
Originally posted by Nozdormu
1. You say defeat, I say help. They both are the same in this situation.2. The Lich King has never died. How can he be undead? And as hard as it may be for you to understand, it is an Azerothian war and Alexstrasza will not involve herself in it. The only reason she is in Northrend to begin with is because she is in debt to Kirin Tor and Kirin Tor is endangered by Malygos and not Lich King. Malygos is a far greater threat than Lich King to begin with.
1. Nothing has changed? Then why would she bother fighting the Lich King? It is after all a war between people of Azeroth. The same kind of war that she said she would stay out of. She did not break her words during the 2nd war. Why would she break them now? The Lich King is not more of a threat now than then.
2. You once more show that you do not know much about the Aspect of life. She doesnt care, because it is not her fight. Do you want me to bring up the "Strictly neutral to war" quote again?
1. How are they the same exactley? explain to me how she is helping Malygos, shes just trying to stop him from doing what he wants to do.
2. He technically died when his body was ripped to pieces...thats dieing, a banshee is still undead as well, same things, so yes he has died, Kiljaeden killed him, put his soul in a frozen casque yadda yadda yadda etc etc, he is just as much undead as every other. Thats a nice opinion youve got there, heres another, Lich King would crush Malygos like a speck. Fortunatley for the rest of the world hes not really interesed at the moment although their on his to do list.
1.Its not a war between just the people, if you had read the Brann Bronzebeard books ,the 2006 RPG books the Lich King is declaring war on Dragons, the world and Titans. Here something from WoW wiki.
The Lich King possesses untold power and an endless hatred for the living. The dwarven explorer, Brann Bronzebeard, has speculated that it is only a matter of time before the Lich King seeks to destroy or dominate all sapient life on Azeroth - not just the Alliance and Horde, but also the dragons and perhaps the titans themselves.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Lich_King#Current_activities
2. This is not really a war thats why, no more than there is a war between the Alliance and Gnolls......than there is a war between the Scourge and the rest of the world. She has to step in if the world was in danger which it is.
Originally posted by Burning thought
nice opinion, assumption etc etc
Originally posted by Burning thought
Not really, this is simply two takes of the situation, one where she may be a match for the King and appear in the battle, or a reason why she may not is to save herself your obviously very narrow on the subject of aspects, their incredibly important to the world, they know very well that if one of them dies its going to harm Azeroth to incredible levels so if they know they are no match for an opponent, their not suicidal.
The Aspects, as protectors of Azeroth, do care that the state of it is in some order, if there is imminent threat to it to such an extent they are definitely prepared to sacrifice themselves in order to keep Azeroth alive. It’s been shown in the past. Here’s a quote from Alexstrasza herself during the final assault on Zin’Azshari:
“If sacrifice ourselves to destroy the portal we must, then we shall!”
Oh, they’re very important to the world alright, some more than others, but if one of them forsakes their duties or dies then it won’t harm the world to “incredible levels”. The only case where Azeroth would be severely messed up is if Nozdormu were to perish, in that case time would be a non-factor. The second most important Aspect, Neltharion, has already turned traitor and caused a mess at first, but Azeroth was able to compensate.
Originally posted by Burning thought
This provides no insight to the lich king at all, as i said before, your debating against a being whos power level you dont know
Arthas/Ner’Zhul doesn’t even come close to matching that.
If he even came close to that power, then Azeroth would have been an Undead wreck already. The world was instantly doomed if Sargeras set foot on it. He could have soloed everything and everyone near to him at once. The power of his countless army is almost nothing compared to him, like Krasus said.
Arthas launched one failed assault on the rest of the world, and has done absolutely nothing since.
Originally posted by Burning thought
so therefore everyything you state against him is assumption, then you bash assumption, so your losing your marbles basically....gather them up and try again would be good advice.
The “assumptions” I’m making and the “assumptions you’re making are different, you see. The ones I am making have a basis in fact, and are supported. Yours are just purely based on speculation. I’m not even sure where you’re getting the stones to bash my arguments without even replying to all of them properly.
Until you stop wasting your time on pathetically weak symbolic retorts, you may as well drop the debate altogether.
Originally posted by Burning thought
And your not using facts from the books , the facts from the books would be that the legion had an army to the horizen, the thing thats opinion which is what your using is that its the greatest army in warcraft universe.
The Scourge have never had the numbers to field this many, not even with the extent of their full army. Also, the battle force that Jarod saw stretching back to the horizon was, as Krasus commented, a very small dent on their actual army. The Burning Legion was created many millennia ago, started out strong, and have been accumulating rapidly ever since before their attempted assault on Azeroth.
It’s not just random opinion that I believe something, because as you can clearly see, I have very good reason to. You, on the other hand, do not.
Originally posted by Burning thought
This is not the only time youve done it, you use facts from books ,then you make your opinion on it and try and call the opinion fact, which it is not.
It’s not so much as forming an opinion on it and simply analyzing it further and expanding on it. I don’t change fact at all, I simply explore it deeper. If you fail to understand that, and you seem to be doing so, then it’s not my problem. Read above to see why you’re so clearly wrong in this one regard.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Well, no not the most powerful in the universe necesserily, ime sure Aman'thul himself would poke at that one, and Elune.
Despite Aman’Thul being the head Titan of the Pantheon and incredibly powerful in his own right, the WarCraft III manual clearly states Sargeras as the Champion of the Pantheon. It’s like comparing King Llane to Lothar. Llane’s excellent with a weapon, but Lothar has been on the battlefield almost his entire life.
As for Elune, the most she has ever done in lore was establish protection over Tyrande to the point where Archimonde could do absolutely nothing to harm her. She’s regarded as a non-active, non-combatant god. How could she “beat” another God?
Originally posted by Burning thought
Heres another opinion, Sargerus more powerful? maybe, maybe, theres no fact around this but maybe...then youve got the [b]FACT that Sargerus is a fallen wreck, a shadow of his former self in the void [/b]
My point is that Azeroth has dealt with far worse than the likes of the Lich King. And it’s still fairly stable and mostly prospering. They can and will deal with the Lich King by themselves.
Sargeras has made a much more devastating impact upon Azeroth, nearly killing off the most populated race on the planet and corrupting quite a few, breaking the entire land into separate pieces and creating a devastating Maelstrom. From beyond the grave, he’s been able to corrupt Medivh (who was considered the greatest human wizard at the time) and ultimately bring the orcs into the world, causing more destruction.
What has Arthas done of that magnitude? He’s razed two kingdoms and their capital cities. Nothing to compare to what Sargeras has caused, haha.
Originally posted by Burning thought
and Lich King is sitting on his throne, an army that could wipe out the world
Originally posted by Burning thought
after thwarting the legions now supreme commander with his freedom. Hes likely simply watching to the future now. Looking into the future so he doesnt do a woopsy daisy like Sargerus.
He’s already done a whoopsy daisy, he sent his army to Azeroth where they were easily beaten back by the Alliance and Horde. He just hasn’t perished from that whoopsy daisy, unlike Sargeras.
Originally posted by Burning thought
read your posts? i thnk your just repeating exactley what ive said to you, is this some sort of tantrum?
I really wouldn’t accuse anyone else of a tantrum considering some of the posts I’ve seen from you here.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Nope [b]wrong, youve contributed a couple of quotes which are facts, then the rest is like your own opinion, speculation etc etc[/b]
Tossing it back at me doesn’t really work, Burning. Especially if it’s not even true.
Tell me, how am I speculating without a solid factual support? I’m basing everything I’m saying upon everything I know. You, on the other hand, have proven to me plainly that you know very little and are basing many things upon just guesses, or very incomplete knowledge.
See above argument.
Originally posted by Burning thought
They are the aspect guardians.well done, your getting close but not quite, baby steps at a time, Neltherian the Earth warder does indeed protect the Earth, things making sense now?
Haha, I really suggest you stop with the condescending persona, seeing how as you have nothing else to back it up with. It’s amusingly pathetic, to be painfully honest.
Originally posted by Burning thought
lol more subtle and diverse? their just scratching at the walls trying to get in, their wothless now
Like I said, the Legion makes attempts to corrupt and destroy their enemy from within, the Scourge just infest and destroy their enemy from without. The former tends to be much more dangerous because you’re essentially fighting a war on two fronts.
And they are much more diverse. Demons can come in a lot of forms, Scourge are just mainly undead and are confined to the magical restrictions of Necromancy.
Originally posted by Burning thought
as soon as they get in LK will prob take out Kiljaeden anyway so their prob better off hiding out in the void if they know whats good for them, but hell, Sarg, Archimonde, they didnt get the hint their legion is worthless.
Azeroth has faced down far worse than the likes of the Scourge and Lich King and won, in the past. The defenders have proven themselves.
Originally posted by Burning thought
-That is the main kingdom, Lorderon was the soverign state, it was cutting off the head, as Arthas said "this kingdom will fall" the kingdom of men
What about Gilneas? The Lineage of Arathi? Stormwind? You seem to be missing out on quite a lot here. I suggest you read more.
Originally posted by Burning thought
- they were smashed to bits, seemingly like flies
Insisting something that you’ve already said isn’t going to make it any truer, Burning, your last three posts that I just replied to were colossal failures.
Originally posted by Burning thought
-[b]read the post please....lol, ime talking to a wall here, that spits blabbering nonsense, perhaps theres a pigeon on your head spraying feaces every so often since i dont know where most of your junk opinions must come from, now read the part slowly....[/b]
Oh wait.
Anyways, I’m not the one misunderstanding nearly three-quarters of what you’re saying. I keep having to repeat myself because of you, instead of progressing.
Read this post again.
Then read the part where you’re saying “ime talking to a wall here, that spits blabbering nonsense”.
Such filthy hypocrisy, hahahahahaha!
Take a chill pill, by the way.
Originally posted by Burning thought
it says [b]meeting not that he has already met them...meeting hes not failed a single one yet...read it slowly please, you dont want to miss it.[/b]
You’re not even correct here. Simply because he hasn’t achieved all his goals yet does not mean he has failed at one of them. You were around for the Shadow of the Necropolis patch and the release of Naxxramas, you should know.
Scourge lost. Azeroth won.
Next time make sure you’re correct before attempting to flame so blatantly. Thanks. Boy, have you got some balls here.
Originally posted by Burning thought
yes you do, but if you keep trying you may learn how to debate sooner or later, keep your chin up.
Also if you’re calling me out on not knowing how to debate, you’re probably the biggest hypocrite I have ever met in years. Good luck with trying though.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Its like a scout force, you think the Necropolis had all the armies of the LK? jokes......
If he were simply “scouting”, you say, he would have just sent shades in to spy instead of wasting forces or launching an invasion.
Originally posted by Burning thought
your opinons that roll off like snot from them is not fact however.
Once again, keep up now.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes, they safeguard, thats because they are [b]guardians
Originally posted by Burning thought
1- The high elves for one, the kingdom of man
Originally posted by Burning thought
its not just a faction more so than a real race
Next.
Originally posted by Burning thought
then youve got the races the LK already enslaved
Originally posted by Burning thought
hes even had dragons on his side.
Next.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Dalaren lost as well, the wizards of the Kirin tor although not a race are a major faction
Originally posted by Burning thought
True kalimdor was fine, it wouldnt have been however, it would of been crushed but fortatley the scourge went to the human domains and what did they do? shattered the kingdom of man, smashed the high elves and continued its path, Dalaran gone, Lorderon gone, Quelthalas gone...gone..gone...Lich Kings plans going straight for the board.
Looks like the Lich King “missed a spot”, a very large one indeed. Or is that part of his “secret master scheme” too?
Originally posted by Burning thought
WoWwiki has the numbers for the scourge:
“Unknown, perhaps 250,000”
Sorry to say, but as accurate as WowWiki can be on things, they’re not 100% correct or official. And where’d they get their numbers?
Originally posted by Burning thought
handle lol? they would be annhilated, the full might would be like water not on rocks but a Tsunami across the sand
Still speculating aren’t we?
Originally posted by Burning thought
they will need immortal/dragon help to even have a splinter of a chance again 250k and thats without the LK leading them and forgetting the fact the scourge growns as every foe dies, Dragons will rise up as bones as will man, elf and orc etc etc
Even if the numbers were accurate, that’s not even close to what mortals can cope with, using proper strategy. The dragons would make the Scourge a non-factor, they kill extremely fast. Quote from War of the Ancients:
“A line of crimson giants opened their mighty maws and unleashed an inferno. Several hundred demons were reduced to ash in the blink of an eye.”
The Burning Legion that day was probably fielding a force around the size of the entire Scourge army. Even with the dragons and the Kalimdor forces banded together and killing extremely fast there were still a lot more to go.
Originally posted by Burning thought
while the Burning legion fell when it went into battle and lost forces, the Scourge usualyl gain.
The Nathrezim (Dreadlord) invented Necromancy.
Originally posted by Burning thought
your whole argument is "ifs" it has to be because as you earlier (youll prob contradict yourself now lol) realised the LK has no factual info, so what your putting against him is also all an "if" just as much as my arguments, you fail...again...
The LK does have enough factual info for me to compare him to someone else, he doesn’t have nothing. Why do you tell me that he has no factual info when you’ve been talking about his accomplishments, his influence, the Scourge, etc?
Hahaha, who’s self-contradicting now?
Originally posted by Burning thought
ouch...did i hit a nerve? lol....
ime talking to a wall here, that spits blabbering nonsense, perhaps theres a pigeon on your head spraying feaces every so often since i dont know where most of your junk opinions must come from
Once again, you’re proving to be a textbook hypocrite. Congratulations, haha.
Originally posted by Burning thought
i can doubt a fictional character all i like, especially until you find proof if your saying i should not doubt him then spit it out.
You’ve managed to bring up stupid points on multiple levels. Once again, congratulations!
Originally posted by Burning thought
Or he knows his own death which i think he does? perhaps it will be him and he will die at the hands of the LK to complete his fate so w/e they prob both know Nozmordu will come for the LK and fall.
Keep on, it’s just useless banter.
Originally posted by Burning thought
...LK also sees the future
Originally posted by Burning thought
Their not a hive mind ,dont be ridiculous ,their offspring and lessers likely have similiar personalities but their not all thining the same thing at the same time, or can you prove their hive mind?
Originally posted by Burning thought
War of the ancients.
We’ve been addressing the War of the Ancients for quite a while now.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Right so their role is just to sit there, stare and watch.. then stop eachother from going mad and attacking eachother, great......no i dont think so at all, their guardians.
If the mortals can handle it on their own, like Medivh acknowledged that they could, the dragons won’t step in.
Originally posted by Burning thought
-Keep debates civil at all times, do not result to bashing and trolling in a thread when you lose/get annoyed
ime talking to a wall here, that spits blabbering nonsense, perhaps theres a pigeon on your head spraying feaces every so often since i dont know where most of your junk opinions must come from
Originally posted by Burning thought
-bring proof, not your own opinions of facts you claim to be in various books, scan the books or show info from other sources to back up your claims
It would really help, honestly. And they’re quite interesting novels anyway.
Demands for proof do absolutely nothing.
Hey, you know what? I’ve got a few tips for you myself.
1.) Keep debates civil at all times, don’t result to bashing or trolling in a thread where you’ll lose/get annoyed. (Seem to have failed this one the first time.)
2.) Actually get your facts straight for once, I have to constantly correct you on facts from Warcraft, hence my whole “Next” parade earlier.
3.) Learn to not be such a hypocrite. It’s the epitome of irony when you’re telling someone else they’re contradicting themselves.