Master Malygos Vs. Lich King

Originally posted by Burning thought
1. How are they the same exactley? explain to me how she is helping Malygos, shes just trying to stop him from doing what he wants to do.

Originally posted by Burning thought
than there is a war between the Scourge and the rest of the world. She has to step in if the world was in danger which it is.

The Scourge seek not only to prosper, but to destroy actively. The Gnolls just want to live their own lives just like any other intelligent race in WoW, not to wage war on everyone, and unfortunately for the humans Gnoll lifestyle cutting into their lifestyle so they send you to kill them. How predictable.

Originally posted by DarkC
Those which have basis in fact, unlike yours.

Yeah, you have not read the books at all. Learn your facts.

The Aspects, as protectors of Azeroth, do care that the state of it is in some order, if there is imminent threat to it to such an extent they are definitely prepared to sacrifice themselves in order to keep Azeroth alive. It’s been shown in the past. Here’s a quote from Alexstrasza herself during the final assault on Zin’Azshari:
“If sacrifice ourselves to destroy the portal we must, then we shall!”

Oh, they’re very important to the world alright, some more than others, but if one of them forsakes their duties or dies then it won’t harm the world to “incredible levels”. The only case where Azeroth would be severely messed up is if Nozdormu were to perish, in that case time would be a non-factor. The second most important Aspect, Neltharion, has already turned traitor and caused a mess at first, but Azeroth was able to compensate.

His exact power level is unknown, but I do know for a fact that he is not nearly as powerful as Sargeras was, and which I base my reasoning from. As stated in official lore: “The power of a hundred dragons would have been nothing to him.” Sargeras is to Malygos, say, as a human is to a worm.

Arthas/Ner’Zhul doesn’t even come close to matching that.

If he even came close to that power, then Azeroth would have been an Undead wreck already. The world was instantly doomed if Sargeras set foot on it. He could have soloed everything and everyone near to him at once. The power of his countless army is almost nothing compared to him, like Krasus said.

Arthas launched one failed assault on the rest of the world, and has done absolutely nothing since.

Again, no. Read above.

The “assumptions” I’m making and the “assumptions you’re making are different, you see. The ones I am making have a basis in fact, and are supported. Yours are just purely based on speculation. I’m not even sure where you’re getting the stones to bash my arguments without even replying to all of them properly.

The Scourge have never had the numbers to field this many, not even with the extent of their full army. Also, the battle force that Jarod saw stretching back to the horizon was, as Krasus commented, a very small dent on their actual army. The Burning Legion was created many millennia ago, started out strong, and have been accumulating rapidly ever since before their attempted assault on Azeroth.

It’s not just random opinion that I believe something, because as you can clearly see, I have very good reason to. You, on the other hand, do not.

The books are fact.

It’s not so much as forming an opinion on it and simply analyzing it further and expanding on it. I don’t change fact at all, I simply explore it deeper. If you fail to understand that, and you seem to be doing so, then it’s not my problem. Read above to see why you’re so clearly wrong in this one regard.

He is actually more powerful than Aman’Thul, haha.

Despite Aman’Thul being the head Titan of the Pantheon and incredibly powerful in his own right, the WarCraft III manual clearly states Sargeras as the Champion of the Pantheon. It’s like comparing King Llane to Lothar. Llane’s excellent with a weapon, but Lothar has been on the battlefield almost his entire life.

As for Elune, the most she has ever done in lore was establish protection over Tyrande to the point where Archimonde could do absolutely nothing to harm her. She’s regarded as a non-active, non-combatant god. How could she “beat” another God?

You’re missing the point entirely despite me stating it very clearly.

My point is that Azeroth has dealt with far worse than the likes of the Lich King. And it’s still fairly stable and mostly prospering. They can and will deal with the Lich King by themselves.

Sargeras has made a much more devastating impact upon Azeroth, nearly killing off the most populated race on the planet and corrupting quite a few, breaking the entire land into separate pieces and creating a devastating Maelstrom. From beyond the grave, he’s been able to corrupt Medivh (who was considered the greatest human wizard at the time) and ultimately bring the orcs into the world, causing more destruction.

What has Arthas done of that magnitude? He’s razed two kingdoms and their capital cities. Nothing to compare to what Sargeras has caused, haha.

If it could wipe out the world, then why hasn’t he launched it yet? I believe you are just overhyping the Lich King again.

He’s already done a whoopsy daisy, he sent his army to Azeroth where they were easily beaten back by the Alliance and Horde. He just hasn’t perished from that whoopsy daisy, unlike Sargeras.

No it doesnt, its a blatent opinion, Show proof not words and assumptions

They would be defenceless if the aspects were all destroyed by the LK.

No false, you dont have a clue whether or not the LK is of higher or equle power to Sargerus or weaker. If he had that power or beyond why would it already be so? Lich King hasnt even done anything yet, hes sitting there so hes not really "tried" anything.

Your assupmtions are assumptions, just as mine, their the same, throw down your "fact" in a quote and ill read it, this will be the last post ill make against one of your assumptions, its worthless until you give me a source. Look at your post, then look at my reply to it, if ive deleted it from the quote box, its an assumtion compeltly baseless and ill not be answering it.

yes and the legion turned out worthless, their not as powerful as the scourge whos numbers replennish and increase as they slash you down.

Inventing up your own reasons and points from a fact is not exploring it deeper, its basically creating your own story and then saying its based on fact...good point, but its not fact at all, its all assumption and half the so called facts you cant seem to show me, show me this please.

No, Aman'thul is supposed to be the most powerful Titan, you are wrong.

You tell me, nobody knows about Elune, just like the Lich King, but shes the most powerful apprently.

No, heres some more baseless nonsense, they CAN and WILL? two big fat assumptions of nothingness, also show me where theyve dealt with worse....the Legion slip up constantly and get beaten, the Scourge and the Lich King do not.

Sargerus? hes a fool and hes slipped up and is already out in the void somewhere, the guy didnt create the Mealstrom, it was an effect of the magic Azhera was using, Sargerus wasnt even planetside, he was patiently waiting like a good cat for her to open the cat flap.

Yeh two kingdoms, which basically ARE the main kingdoms of the side he attacked, he hasnt failed yet either, he is more powerful than ever before as are his armies....

not really, tell me how the mortals are going to stop 250k undead and thats just the icecrown, he has more outside and throughout Northrend, he has Dragons, he has all undead of all types, wraiths, nothing mortal will stop the icecrown army alone and thats without the Lich King going into battle.

Thats not a woopsy daisy, he sent a few handfulls of scourge not an army lol....your talking about the shadow of the Necropolis right?

Originally posted by DarkC
Wrong, again.

Tossing it back at me doesn’t really work, Burning. Especially if it’s not even true.

Tell me, how am I speculating without a solid factual support? I’m basing everything I’m saying upon everything I know. You, on the other hand, have proven to me plainly that you know very little and are basing many things upon just guesses, or very incomplete knowledge.

See above argument.

Yes, he was tasked by the Pantheon as the main protector and guider of Azeroth. Your point?

Haha, I really suggest you stop with the condescending persona, seeing how as you have nothing else to back it up with. It’s amusingly pathetic, to be painfully honest.

I believe that’s what I said, yes. And by the way, how does “scratching at the walls trying to get in” pertain to subtle and diverse?

Like I said, the Legion makes attempts to corrupt and destroy their enemy from within, the Scourge just infest and destroy their enemy from without. The former tends to be much more dangerous because you’re essentially fighting a war on two fronts.

And they are much more diverse. Demons can come in a lot of forms, Scourge are just mainly undead and are confined to the magical restrictions of Necromancy.

Azeroth has faced down far worse than the likes of the Scourge and Lich King and won, in the past. The defenders have proven themselves.

What about Gilneas? The Lineage of Arathi? Stormwind? You seem to be missing out on quite a lot here. I suggest you read more.

You mean the blood elves? Like I said, their capital city wasn’t even completely destroyed, all Arthas needed was the Sunwell. As for destruction of Eversong itself, the old Horde probably did just as much, if not more than, the Scourge.

Insisting something that you’ve already said isn’t going to make it any truer, Burning, your last three posts that I just replied to were colossal failures.

Anyways, I’m not the one misunderstanding nearly three-quarters of what you’re saying. I keep having to repeat myself because of you, instead of progressing.

You’re not even correct here. Simply because he hasn’t achieved all his goals yet does not mean he has failed at one of them. You were around for the Shadow of the Necropolis patch and the release of Naxxramas, you should know.

Scourge lost. Azeroth won..

Thats an opinion, of my knowledge that your currently strugging to be able to attack, you dont have any evidence, at least i can give a WoWwiki or two, youve got nothing, your simply blabbering on about stuff and throwing a few opinions and assumptions for some spice.

lol seems i hurt you again, shame

The legion are a joke...theyve hardly got anything left on Azeroth, if anything real at all, few scraps here and there left over.

What you know nothing of the scourge, I actually treated you thus far with some dignity as if you know something but you think they only have Necromancy? and you talk as if the undead is all theyve got isnt enough? they have undead dragons, animals, creatures and other races of all kinds, skeletons, they have Necromancers yes but they also have mages enslaved, they have nerbuians they have all kinds of critters on their side, as the Necropolis can show yu, Kelthuzard in that one Necropolis has spiders, inventions of all kinds ,death knights, magic users who can summon other magic users who use Arcane, theres all kinds of scourge and lots of them.

not really, the scourge has done almost what the Legion failed at.

I suggest you get some intellect, the King was the main state, most of the human lands were scourge covered and Lordoron was smashed to bits.

Not really, as ive just proven your simply down playing the Scourge but your not proving anything, my points all stand just as strong, the Scourge smashed everything in their path regardless, nothing stopped them until Dumb@assamonde stopped them and wanted the tree.

if you dont read the posts which is your downfall in all this arguments so far, youll fail again and again..

Scourge scouting party lost, damn...lol

at least your trying to debate...not succeeding but as i said before, baby steps at a time buddy

Originally posted by DarkC
Hahahahahahaha…if all you’re going to reply with are weak, unsupported “NO YOU ARE” retorts in the style of a 10-year old, then you may as well stop posting altogether. It’s just a waste.

Also if you’re calling me out on not knowing how to debate, you’re probably the biggest hypocrite I have ever met in years. Good luck with trying though.

Not the necropolis, I’m talking about the entire invasion of the world itself. Naxxramas was only one Necropoli that Kel’Thuzad happened to be commanding out of, it did not house the entire invasion. What a ridiculous notion.

If he were simply “scouting”, you say, he would have just sent shades in to spy instead of wasting forces or launching an invasion.

Read properly, they’re opinions that have a basis in fact, unlike you.

Correct. However, they will not step in unless needed to, as has been proven in the past. Next.

And both are still alive and thriving less than ten years after, it took the Night Elves 10,000 years to fully recover. Next.

Lordaeron was one kingdom of man, not the entire kingdom. Stormwind, after it was rebuilt, regained its sovereignty courtesy of King Terenas himself, for example. Gilneas was completely independent as well (Tides of Darkness novel). Learn your lore.

Next.

Other than nerubians, what race is there that he fully assimilated?

Actually those were simply resurrected skeletons of dead dragons infused with evil spirits. He didn’t corrupt the dragons themselves.

Next.

Courtesy of mainly [b]Archimonde, not the Scourge. He was simply summoned by the Scourge. Next.

Interesting. Last I checked, both humans and Blood elves were alive and very well.

Looks like the Lich King “missed a spot”, a very large one indeed. Or is that part of his “secret master scheme” too?

Actually they don’t, they just have a random guess.

“Unknown, perhaps 250,000”

Sorry to say, but as accurate as WowWiki can be on things, they’re not 100% correct or official. And where’d they get their numbers? [/B]

erm, judging by your spam of haha, your the 10 year old son, not me.

lol learn to debate

one necropolis is not an invasion

they have no fact, their just you blabbering as before, youve got no basis, quotes, links, youve got nothing

no their not, their blood elves who now third maddly for magic, they are a completly diffrent race, the high elves are basically gone , dead kapooot.

Stormwind is not kingdom like Lordoron, Lordoron was the central government of the human lands which is why King terenas was so important to the plot, why Stormwind was just a side note.

but youve added to that, i didnt say he fully asimliated, he has many enslaved races even if its not the entire race, he has most beings in his army from spidery nerbuians, humans, orcs and ofc dragons.

yeh as i said, hes got dragons.

no Archimonde destroyed the buildings, but the scourge killed the main wizards inside the place, Archimonde who in a way is the Lich Kings as well, since its his plan, LK is the mastermind behind Archimodne so everything Archimonde comes on teh world and does, is sort of connected to LK as well.

missed what? doing very well? the humans have a few cities, their not the enormous kingdom like they were before. The High elves are completly gone since theyve become Blood elves, craving constantly like drug addicts. And no theyve got a couple of islands last time i looked. Not quite their former selves.

where does it say unkown? all i read is:

"More creatures inhabit this one region than the rest of the continent (Its roughly estimated to have a population of 250,000 beings). All of the beings here are undead"

their reference is on the page i gave you, Lands of mystery page 106, they did what youve done only...oh yeh theyve got refrences.

Wrong.

Originally posted by DarkC
I see two “would be”s in there.

Still speculating aren’t we?

A “splinter of a chance” against 250k?

Even if the numbers were accurate, that’s not even close to what mortals can cope with, using proper strategy. The dragons would make the Scourge a non-factor, they kill extremely fast. Quote from War of the Ancients:

“A line of crimson giants opened their mighty maws and unleashed an inferno. Several hundred demons were reduced to ash in the blink of an eye.”

The Burning Legion that day was probably fielding a force around the size of the entire Scourge army. Even with the dragons and the Kalimdor forces banded together and killing extremely fast there were still a lot more to go.

Wait, what?

The Nathrezim (Dreadlord) invented Necromancy.

Actually as I’ve said earlier I can compare him to other beings that have accomplishments and are known. How is that contradicting myself? Simple “ifs” are very different from comparing unknowns to knowns, which is what I’m doing. Thanks for not keeping up again.

The LK does have enough factual info for me to compare him to someone else, he doesn’t have nothing. Why do you tell me that he has no factual info when you’ve been talking about his accomplishments, his influence, the Scourge, etc?

Hahaha, who’s self-contradicting now?

Actually, considering your rant below here, I was under the impression that I did.

Great way to keep a cool head and not resort to pathetically immature elementary school insults, and a sadly confused condescending demeanor.

Once again, you’re proving to be a textbook hypocrite. Congratulations, haha.

Doubting the testament of a fictional character that is IN the actual lore that you’re debating about when they’ve had experience with both the Legion AND the Scourge is among one of the most enormously stupid things I’ve ever seen.

You’ve managed to bring up stupid points on multiple levels. Once again, congratulations!

Hahaha, more speculatory “LK owns their faces” talk.

Um, since when? Are you just making things up again?

I meant besides that, obviously.

We’ve been addressing the War of the Ancients for quite a while now.

No, their role is to protect, but only when they need to.

If the mortals can handle it on their own, like Medivh acknowledged that they could, the dragons won’t step in.

Oh, don’t be such a hypocrite.

Buy them yourself and read them if you want to, but we’re not wasting time scanning various pages just to satisfy your want for proof.

It would really help, honestly. And they’re quite interesting novels anyway.
Demands for proof do absolutely nothing.
Hey, you know what? I’ve got a few tips for you myself.

1.) Keep debates civil at all times, don’t result to bashing or trolling in a thread where you’ll lose/get annoyed. (Seem to have failed this one the first time.)

2.) Actually get your facts straight for once, I have to constantly correct you on facts from Warcraft, hence my whole “Next” parade earlier.

3.) Learn to not be such a hypocrite. It’s the epitome of irony when you’re telling someone else they’re contradicting themselves.

Your doing it all along, thing is ime allowed to, because thats the stand point in this debate ime taking, the side of the guy who IS only speculation....your speculating constantly due to you saying baseless rubbish against him, calling it based on fact doesnt mean its true

Well first the Dragons are not what i put under the "mortal races" box, second please show proof of this, show me what the mortals could possibly do to 250k perhaps 300k if you add everything outside the icecrown glacier as well for the whole LK army.

Probably? i thought you hated saying that, another baseless piece of BS, i think they probably were not..see how easy to beat htat point was?

show me where it says this, i dont remember readingi t. If its true then their not using it. They must have forgotten or lost the power in their fel transformation.

no your babling nonsense again, read your posts before you click the submit button, it will save me from having to go through it with you step by step, the current LK has no real power facts, you saying he will definaltey be beaten by A or B is BS and nonsense and your contradicting yourself by saying not to do so.

rant? you obviously dont know what a rant is.

no not really, the character doing anytihng with the scourge is pointless when concerning the LK himself, theres nothing there about the LK the dragon is simply nervous of Sarg, obviously he now realises how stupid Sarg is.

just as speculative as you "knowing" the fate of LK so he doesnt bother, ime simply adding to your point, ime helping you out by adding more to your little tale.

since when? since the beginning, ill find the videos for proof when you actually start showing proof. The guy has shown it several times.

lol.....besides? you could keep saying that until theres nothing left, weve got the war of the ancients which is enough to know how the dragons react for real danger. When did Mediv say they will beat LK?

Hypocrite? not at all, I said keep debates civil, if their already uncivil like you and Becci have slowly made it then me acting uncivilly is not impropper at all, you seem to have a problem with words.

Thats a massive epic Debate fail if ever i saw one, maybe ill just say that whenever anyone in a debate asks for proof, "zomg kain never done that" then i could just say go buy all the games and spend your moeny on playing them....your an epic fail of a debator lol..

if you cant provide proof, it means nothing what you randomly blabber on about, especially since youve said many wrong things already like how the Aspects were not guardans, when ive proven they are lol, and youve said they are now....obviously correcting yourself to avoid more humiliation at my hands

2) unfortaltey i have to recorrect your so called corrections....

3) but you were 🙂

Originally posted by DarkC
Because Malygos harbors no real hatred for her and didn't really betray her. He just regards every single mage running around Azeroth, particularly the Kirin Tor, as hostile. Alexstrasza is doing him and everyone a favour by making him see reason.

Waging war doesn't mean you will win. Planning something of that magnitude is one thing, accomplishing it is something else entirely.

The Scourge seek not only to prosper, but to destroy actively. The Gnolls just want to live their own lives just like any other intelligent race in WoW, not to wage war on everyone, and unfortunately for the humans Gnoll lifestyle cutting into their lifestyle so they send you to kill them. How predictable.

But thats his Job and shes stopping him from doing it, its his job to stop mages from going crazy with magic, especially lots of them running about using it.

the LK has an enormous army bigger than any on the world who work on his whim, have so many advantages over other armies and grow in numbers in battle usually rather than fall and with him, one of the most powerful beings in the WC universe at the front...hes not likely to fail against mortals alone.

Originally posted by Becci
Wrong.

"they have a cave troll!"

Let them come! There is one Dwarf yet in Moria who still draws breath!

Originally posted by Burning thought
Problem is, Blizzard dont update their website much either, they still have the old story lore on there, where Sargerus is corrupted not the corrupter, so they leave a lot of their old stuff which contributes to my point that not even everything pointing to lore on that site is possibly correct especailly when the site itself has incorrect areas.

Ive not given the LK any power he has not got access to....where? Also no, thats not been shown at all, nothing states he needs to make a human being undead before he can control them, thats an assumption right there. you see...all these assumptions, i may speculate and theorise and ive got good reason to, infact if you look at it without bias, everyone is specuating because by saying your character can beat a character who is almost all theory IS a theory/speculation. Well the information provided for half of your characters is not very good information, theres craps here and there half of which is either obvious or I already know and the rest is like mine ,speculation,opinion although I draw the line when people say something that is their opinion as fact.

Ofc official Blizzard website is, thats why the FAQ is a good source of info regardless who you "speculate" through your dislike of what its saying who designed it.

The FAQ is canon because its on the official site, just like Nexas has become canon Malygos lair because its on the official site, if a fan site hosted that then its not canon until its on an official site for example. An FAQ can say anything, the fact is its official, the FAQ is a questions and answers so it could have info on the LK, lore, a land in the game w/e but its all from Blizzard and its offcial, whoever created it was taked by Blizzard.

Ofcourse not, because as i said earlier, some pieces of information are better, thing is theres not a game out yet for Lich King, soon there will be, but until we see LK getting pwned by something not worthy of beating a being who is considered one of the most powerful in the universe then we can officially state he is not so powerful afterall but until then we cannot.

If it doesnt state anything about it then its really a dud of information, it doesnt have anything on FAQ's. It probably comes under "official" information however since its on an official site.

It isn't my problem that Blizzard doesn't update there website frequently, from my point of view if they are not updating it is because they feel there isn't anything to really update, probably because they think the majority of the possible WoW fans go directly to WoWwiki for information but it's only a theory. And you are actually saying that a site supported by Blizzard cannot be used as a valid source or am I misunderstanding you?

You gave him Warlock Powers if I recall correctly, powers that he doesn't have. That's a assumption that bears a increadible good amount of weight, unless you can provide me with a proof of him forcefully entering the mind of a Being that doesn't want to be controlled a Human ore a Night Elf will be enough, but preferebly a High Level Mage since that is what Malygos can easily be consideret as. Again DarkC mentioned the blast that Malygos can produce with his breath Weapon, I doesn't see the Lich King surviving that Blast. Please explain why half of the information about my Characters are bad? Because you doesn't like what is said about them, please tell me where I have made Assumptions about "my" characters in this thread?

My "Speculation" is just as supported as your FAQ is BT, both are published on a official site however a FAQ doesn't concern Lore, it strictly concerns the Game that is about to released, again the only piece of lore that entire site contain is those words about the Lich King the rest in information about the game.

Just like you dislike the RPG's being canon your attempts to downplay my official source makes you no better then me BT, there is however a difference as mentioned above.

Again I would like to refere to what have been said earlier concerning a FAQ, also this is Lore
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/dungeons/nexus.xml
it directly concerns the Nexus the FAQ does not directly concerns the Lich King this too
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/story/story.xml#3
is lore because it directly concerns the story of a given Character had the Lich King been mentioned here as the most powerful being in the warcraft universe I would agree with it, I didn't have a choice, like you have no choice but to accept the RPG's because they are refered as lore on a official site, but mentioned in a faq that contains wealth of information about anything else then Lore I see it's crediability fall quiet drastically.

I disagree because again no where have I ever read that a FAQ can be consideret a reliable level of lore furthermore if Blizzard toke that as a Official stance why didn't they include those words into the story of the Lich King which is located on the exact same site?

Thats a very vague explanation imo.

Originally posted by Utrigita
It isn't my problem that Blizzard doesn't update there website frequently, from my point of view if they are not updating it is because they feel there isn't anything to really update, probably because they think the majority of the possible WoW fans go directly to WoWwiki for information but it's only a theory. And you are actually saying that a site supported by Blizzard cannot be used as a valid source or am I misunderstanding you?

You gave him Warlock Powers if I recall correctly, powers that he doesn't have. That's a assumption that bears a increadible good amount of weight, unless you can provide me with a proof of him forcefully entering the mind of a Being that doesn't want to be controlled a Human ore a Night Elf will be enough, but preferebly a High Level Mage since that is what Malygos can easily be consideret as. Again DarkC mentioned the blast that Malygos can produce with his breath Weapon, I doesn't see the Lich King surviving that Blast. Please explain why half of the information about my Characters are bad? Because you doesn't like what is said about them, please tell me where I have made Assumptions about "my" characters in this thread?

My "Speculation" is just as supported as your FAQ is BT, both are published on a official site however a FAQ doesn't concern Lore, it strictly concerns the Game that is about to released, again the only piece of lore that entire site contain is those words about the Lich King the rest in information about the game.

Just like you dislike the RPG's being canon your attempts to downplay my official source makes you no better then me BT, there is however a difference as mentioned above.

Again I would like to refere to what have been said earlier concerning a FAQ, also this is Lore
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/dungeons/nexus.xml
it directly concerns the Nexus the FAQ does not directly concerns the Lich King this too
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/story/story.xml#3
is lore because it directly concerns the story of a given Character had the Lich King been mentioned here as the most powerful being in the warcraft universe I would agree with it, I didn't have a choice, like you have no choice but to accept the RPG's because they are refered as lore on a official site, but mentioned in a faq that contains wealth of information about anything else then Lore I see it's crediability fall quiet drastically.

I disagree because again no where have I ever read that a FAQ can be consideret a reliable level of lore furthermore if Blizzard toke that as a Official stance why didn't they include those words into the story of the Lich King which is located on the exact same site?

Thats a very vague explanation imo.

The reason I question its credability is due to the RPG books that your using are ancient and second, the story on that website is ancient ,just like how you downplay my FAQ, i can downplay the Blizzard site for old data that is not updated the very same way you discriminate against the official and latest site of Blizzard.

Warlock powers usually are tied in with shadow magic, which youve stated yourself and so has Becci is likely the LK has, so i played from that the fact if you think he has shadow then he has some Warlock powers. Also ive still not sure ive seen the piece where Kiljaeden takes away the warlock powers, you may have shown it to me and if you have please point it out again. Who would know? how can anyone know if he is entering their mind, Malygos could be flying and then suddenly BAM the LK before Malygos even knows whats hit him has ripped into the Dragons mind, it wouldnt know its even being taken over its not omnicient, we all know LK can take over minds and quickly too so I think its your place to show someone who cant defend themselves from it, the LK could simply try again if he does not succeed but imo i think the Lich King woudl overpower the mind field due to my opinion of him being simpy too much for Malygos to handle. You said breath weapon can do that blast? ive only heard of it wiping out memories of spells when it hits. The assumption itself about characters in general is those who say that LK is nothing on them without proof, thats an assumption, although ime not sure you personally have said sometihng like that within my memory. I was more targeting Becci and DarkC "my opinion is Fact" pandemonium.

the FAQ has lore in it either way, the FAQ can be made for anything the developers want it to be, it may not be a book or lore page, but it sure hell has officially been made, on an official site, and its new too so its age cannot be beaten on. Also furthermore the RPG books you like call the LK "all powerful", "infnite in necromancy power".....

The storyline of WOTLK doesnt say anything about power at all, its simply saying as the area implies, story so power of the characters in question are irrelvent, i would like to get the Lands of Mystery and other Brann bronzebeard books, they are 2006 RPG books that says a lot on the LK, like that 250k figuire, his plans on taking on dragons and even the Titans themselves.

I dont think the FAQ creadability falls much at all, the fact its an FAQ means nothing, its still official, on the NEW official site, its more official than some incredibly aged RPG books, at the Brann Bronzebeard ones are fairly new. How did you get the ones you sent me? could you get the Brann Bronzebeard books the same way?

Originally posted by Burning thought
No it doesnt, its a blatent opinion, Show proof not words and assumptions

Besides…you’re one to talk, much of what you say is just nonsupported conclusions that “LK would stomp the aspects, LK is stronger than X, Scourge is stronger than Burning Legion”, etc, even when more than once I’ve proved you clearly wrong. You’re assuming yourself, you’re forming unfounded opinions yourself.

Like I have said, stop being such a hypocrite.

Originally posted by Burning thought
They would be defenceless if the aspects were all destroyed by the LK.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No false, you dont have a clue whether or not the LK is of higher or equle power to Sargerus or weaker.

Read my posts again. You’re still not getting it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
If he had that power or beyond why would it already be so? Lich King hasnt even done anything yet, hes sitting there so hes not really "tried" anything.

Simple, he DOESN’T have the power to do so, otherwise he would have just done it already and laid waste to Azeroth near instantaneously.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your assupmtions are assumptions, just as mine, their the same

“LK would stomp etc, etc”. Nothing else.
See the difference? I sure do.

Originally posted by Burning thought
throw down your "fact" in a quote and ill read it, this will be the last post ill make against one of your assumptions, its worthless until you give me a source.

Why are you calling me out on this? Does it make you feel better?
At least that would make some sense.

I will say it again, you’ve got some balls here, son.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Look at your post, then look at my reply to it, if ive deleted it from the quote box, its an assumtion compeltly baseless and ill not be answering it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yes and the legion turned out worthless, their not as powerful as the scourge whos numbers replennish and increase as they slash you down.

You can continue to throw that at me, but you see, the ability to resurrect the dead to fight for you is only effective if:

A.) The necromancers channeling the undead are not killed.
B.) The Undead army are equal in number to, or greater than, the army they are opposing.
The Burning Legion can counter by just unleashing a horde of Fel Hounds at the Necromancers, and they already way outnumber the Scourge.

Neither factor is likely to exist indefinitely in a war.
In the case of Scourge vs Burning Legion, the Legion has far numbers than imaginable from the descriptions in lore I have seen.

Oh, and by the way, the Dreadlords can resurrect the dead too….go figure.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Inventing up your own reasons and points from a fact is not exploring it deeper, its basically creating your own story and then saying its based on fact...good point, but its not fact at all, its all assumption

Prove otherwise. Show me where I’m making things up. Good luck with that.

Originally posted by Burning thought
and half the so called facts you cant seem to show me, show me this please.

Here’s a few examples of proof that I have used:

“A line of crimson giants opened their mighty maws and unleashed an inferno. Several hundred demons were reduced to ash in the blink of an eye.”

Lordaeron was one kingdom of man, not the entire kingdom. Stormwind, after it was rebuilt, regained its sovereignty courtesy of King Terenas himself, for example. Gilneas was completely independent as well (Tides of Darkness novel). Learn your lore.

Despite Aman’Thul being the head Titan of the Pantheon and incredibly powerful in his own right, the WarCraft III manual clearly states Sargeras as the Champion of the Pantheon. It’s like comparing King Llane to Lothar. Llane’s excellent with a weapon, but Lothar has been on the battlefield almost his entire life.

Here’s a quote from Alexstrasza herself during the final assault on Zin’Azshari:
“If sacrifice ourselves to destroy the portal we must, then we shall!”

Anyhow…where’s your official proof?

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, Aman'thul is supposed to be the most powerful Titan, you are wrong.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You tell me, nobody knows about Elune, just like the Lich King

but shes the most powerful apprently.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, heres some more baseless nonsense, they CAN and WILL? two big fat assumptions of nothingness, also show me where theyve dealt with worse....

Where they’ve dealt with worse? Azeroth has faced much more destruction from the Legion.

The Scourge did not come close to wiping the entire world. The Burning Legion did.
The Scourge did not split the entire world in half.
The Scourge did not wipe the most populated race in the world at the time from the planet.
The Scourge did not invent Necromancy. The Legion did.
The Scourge did not destroy Dalaran. Archimonde did.
The Scourge did not have a leader so powerful as to instantly doom the world as soon as he stepped onto it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
the Legion slip up constantly and get beaten, the Scourge and the Lich King do not.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Sargerus? hes a fool and hes slipped up and is already out in the void somewhere,

Originally posted by Burning thought
the guy didnt create the Mealstrom, it was an effect of the magic Azhera was using Sargerus wasnt even planetside, he was patiently waiting like a good cat for her to open the cat flap.

It was Sargeras who was mainly doing the work on the portal, with the help of the captured Demon Soul in hand. It was those energies he summoned from the Well that caused it to stress and ultimately collapse on itself.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Yeh two kingdoms, which basically ARE the main kingdoms of the side he attacked, he hasnt failed yet either, he is more powerful than ever before as are his armies....

Originally posted by Burning thought
not really, tell me how the mortals are going to stop 250k undead and thats just the icecrown, he has more outside and throughout Northrend

Alliance have somewhere around 800,000.
Horde have somewhere around 400,000.

Yep, that sounds enough to stop 250,000 of Undead, if you ask me.

Originally posted by Burning thought
he has Dragons

Ever wonder why it’s called a BONEYARD? Yeah, me neither.

Originally posted by Burning thought
he has all undead of all types, wraiths, nothing mortal will stop the icecrown army alone and thats without the Lich King going into battle.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not a woopsy daisy, he sent a few handfulls of scourge not an army lol....your talking about the shadow of the Necropolis right?

Why did he? Just to scout the enemy? Why didn’t he send ACTUAL scouts in if he wanted to do that.

Say what you like, the hard evidence points to an invasion.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats an opinion, of my knowledge that your currently strugging to be able to attack

Basically half of what you’re doing is simply rambling on about how you think I’m forming assumptions and opinions without any basis in fact, and then you start doing the same. Tell me, what gives you the balls to lecture someone else on it?

Such delusion, honestly.

Originally posted by Burning thought
you dont have any evidence, at least i can give a WoWwiki or two

Hell, I’ll just copy paste to prove my point.

Quote from the book:

“A line of crimson giants opened their mighty maws and unleashed an inferno. Several hundred demons were reduced to ash in the blink of an eye.”

Lordaeron was one kingdom of man, not the entire kingdom. Stormwind, after it was rebuilt, regained its sovereignty courtesy of King Terenas himself, for example. Gilneas was completely independent as well (Tides of Darkness novel). Learn your lore.

Despite Aman’Thul being the head Titan of the Pantheon and incredibly powerful in his own right, the WarCraft III manual clearly states Sargeras as the Champion of the Pantheon. It’s like comparing King Llane to Lothar. Llane’s excellent with a weapon, but Lothar has been on the battlefield almost his entire life.

Here’s a quote from Alexstrasza herself during the final assault on Zin’Azshari:
“If sacrifice ourselves to destroy the portal we must, then we shall!”

Are.
You.
Blind?

And by the way, Wowwiki doesn’t count as an “official source”. The novels, game, RPG, and etc do.

Such sad hypocrisy. I don’t know why you’re still even trying.

Originally posted by Burning thought
youve got nothing, your simply blabbering on about stuff and throwing a few opinions and assumptions for some spice.

You’ve given me one or two usable references…I’ve given how many? Nine? Ten?
I can assure you that I have a whole lot more than “nothing” on you, hypocrite.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol seems i hurt you again, shame

Really.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The legion are a joke...theyve hardly got anything left on Azeroth, if anything real at all, few scraps here and there left over.

Not the present. Even in the present and at their reduced state they’re still more of a thorn in the side of everyone right now than the Lich King is.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What you know nothing of the scourge

Considering that I’ve actually had to correct you on a few Scourge things such as accomplishments, why are you even trying to raise that pathetic point?

Hypocrite.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I actually treated you thus far with some dignity as if you know something

You went on a rather juicy flame parade earlier, the comment involving something about pigeon feces, remember?

Like I said, you really need to work on your jokingly weak shit retorts. I may act up, but I don’t pretend that I treat someone else with dignity when I haven’t.

Hypocrite.

Originally posted by Burning thought
but you think they only have Necromancy?

If you deny THAT then you are contradicting yourself again.
Hypocrite.

Originally posted by Burning thought
and you talk as if the undead is all theyve got isnt enough? they have undead dragons, animals, creatures and other races of all kinds, skeletons they have Necromancers yes but they also have mages enslaved, they have nerbuians they have all kinds of critters on their side, as the Necropolis can show yu, Kelthuzard in that one Necropolis has spiders, inventions of all kinds ,death knights, magic users who can summon other magic users who use Arcane, theres all kinds of scourge and lots of them.

“Movelist spam” means nothing.

Originally posted by Burning thought
not really, the scourge has done almost what the Legion failed at.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I suggest you get some intellect, the King was the main state, most of the human lands were scourge covered and Lordoron was smashed to bits. Not really, as ive just proven your simply down playing the Scourge.

Lordaeron, including Capital City, was razed to the ground.
Quel’thelas, including Silvermoon, was almost destroyed.
The other human lands were completely untouched.
Kalimdor was invaded but completely recovered.

All of the above are solid, undeniable cold FACT, and which I have already said.
So tell me…how is that “downplaying”? Oh wait, it isn’t.

Touch up on your WoW history, now.

Originally posted by Burning thought
but your not proving anything, my points all stand just as strong

You do not. See above arguments for examples.

Originally posted by Burning thought
the Scourge smashed everything in their path regardless, nothing stopped them until Dumb@assamonde stopped them and wanted the tree.

Stop calling everything that goes against you “dumb”, haha.

Originally posted by Burning thought
if you dont read the posts which is your downfall in all this arguments so far, youll fail again and again..

Hypocrite.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Scourge scouting party lost, damn...lol

Spies, Shades.

Originally posted by Burning thought
at least your trying to debate...not succeeding but as i said before, baby steps at a time buddy

…what?
You smell like hypocrite, son.

Originally posted by Burning thought
erm, judging by your spam of haha, your the 10 year old son, not me.

So every time you “lol” at my posts does that mean you’re a 10 year old too? Wow. Irrefutable logic there, huh?

Such a hypocrite. See, I am not the one going on a flaming rant.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol learn to debate

Now ask yourself: “Do I really have the grounds to lecture someone else on debate skills?”

The correct answer is no, by the way.

Originally posted by Burning thought
one necropolis is not an invasion

Like I said already, it was not one Necropoli, it was many. Naxxramas happened to be the main one.

I think I have good grounds here to tell you to read my posts properly. You still don’t seem to be doing so.

Originally posted by Burning thought
they have no fact, their just you blabbering as before, youve got no basis, quotes, links, youve got nothing

You can perpetually keep saying that, but it will not make it any truer. But hey, if it makes you feel better, right? Knock yourself out.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no their not, their blood elves who now third maddly for magic, they are a completly diffrent race, the high elves are basically gone , dead kapooot.

I’m talking extinction as from killing off, not changing a race’s habits drastically. You’re either twisting the argument off course, or misunderstood me completely. I don’t know which is more likely.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Stormwind is not kingdom like Lordoron, Lordoron was the central government of the human lands which is why King terenas was so important to the plot, why Stormwind was just a side note.

Stormwind wasn’t even included in Warcraft III to the best of my knowledge because they were too far away from Lordaeron to be affected. The entire human campaign revolved around Lordaeron because they were the ones being affected.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yeh as i said, hes got dragons.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Archimonde who in a way is the Lich Kings as well, since its his plan, LK is the mastermind behind Archimodne so everything Archimonde comes on teh world and does, is sort of connected to LK as well.

Originally posted by Burning thought
missed what? doing very well? the humans have a few cities, their not the enormous kingdom like they were before

Originally posted by Burning thought
The High elves are completly gone since theyve become Blood elves, craving constantly like drug addicts.

They’re still alive. The Scourge didn’t destroy the race, they decimated it, but made themselves a bitter enemy.

Originally posted by Burning thought
And no theyve got a couple of islands last time i looked. Not quite their former selves.

After the Scourge invaded, they were still left with one island.
Guess what it was called?

Originally posted by Burning thought
where does it say unkown? all i read is:
their reference is on the page i gave you, Lands of mystery page 106, they did what youve done only...oh yeh theyve got refrences.

See above. According to them the combined Alliance and Horde forces own them in numbers more than four to one.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your doing it all along, thing is ime allowed to, because thats the stand point in this debate ime taking, the side of the guy who IS only speculation

Even if there is less known about your party than mine, it doesn’t mean that you can actually base your entire argument upon speculation and have it count as a real one that cannot be denied. It’s remarkably faulty logic. You’re defying the rules of a debate altogether. You still have to have SOME basis in fact, not assume and invent wildly.

Originally posted by Burning thought
....your speculating constantly due to you saying baseless rubbish against him, calling it based on fact doesnt mean its true

Nice try at playing “Hot Potato” there. Not working.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well first the Dragons are not what i put under the "mortal races" box

Originally posted by Burning thought
second please show proof of this, show me what the mortals could possibly do to 250k perhaps 300k if you add everything outside the icecrown glacier as well for the whole LK army.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Probably? i thought you hated saying that, another baseless piece of BS, i think they probably were not..see how easy to beat htat point was?

-A line of crimson giants (5 - 10) killed hundreds of demons in the blink of an eye (almost simultaneously).
-Each dragonflight houses at least several times that number at that time; remember, it was during the time when they were most populated.
-Three entire dragonflights, including two aspects, were aiding the attack.
-The Might of Kalimdor was multiplied threefold by the other races adding to the Night Elves.

Now all this, and the demons still keep coming “endlessly”.

Also, about 1000 demons can fit into an open square kilometer space, assuming that each demon takes up about a square meter of space (which is Felguard rank size).
Consider that it was observed by Jarod Shadowsong that the army of demons stretched back to the horizon (which, from head height, is about 5 km).
The skirmish line was also observed to stretch for miles (unknown number). Based on that info and the relative size of the armies, assume a minimum of a 500-man deep skirmish line. It puts the number at 25,000 stretching all the way back to the horizon.

Also consider that during the flight to combat the final opening of the portal, that it was observed that the Burning Legion’s forces stretched all the way back to Zin’Azshari, which was about a day’s march (according to Shadowsong) away from the Night Elf capital city.

Finally consider that during the initial casting of the portal, Illidan delved his vision and caught a glimpse of the forces within. He saw demons even which he had not seen before up until now, countless ones, every last one of them lined up in neat order ready to pass through the portal and also stretching as far as the eye could see.

This is how I reason.

Originally posted by Burning thought
show me where it says this, i dont remember readingi t. If its true then their not using it. They must have forgotten or lost the power in their fel transformation.

It was during the War of the Ancients when it was first recorded to happen, during the second novel. Two Nathrezim resurrected an entire city of dead Night Elves to fight, and likely would have marched them towards the Night Elven host had Rhonin and Brox not found the spellcasters and eliminated them.

Quote from Rhonin: “It’s begun. This probably isn’t the first time they’ve started experimenting with magic such as this. You understand what I’m saying, don’t you, Brox?”

Originally posted by Burning thought
no your babling nonsense again, read your posts before you click the submit button, it will save me from having to go through it with you step by step

ime talking to a wall here, that spits blabbering nonsense, perhaps theres a pigeon on your head spraying feaces every so often since i dont know where most of your junk opinions must come from

Haha, you manage to be a hypocrite twice in the same post segment. Bloody priceless, honestly. If you don’t get it the first time then read it til’ you understand. Otherwise, it’s not my problem at all.

Step by step? If anything, that’s what I’M doing. Not you.
See the manner in which I reply?
See the manner in which you reply?

Originally posted by Burning thought
the current LK has no real power facts

Originally posted by Burning thought
you saying he will definaltey be beaten by A or B is BS and nonsense and your contradicting yourself by saying not to do so.

Originally posted by Burning thought
rant? you obviously dont know what a rant is.

ime talking to a wall here, that spits blabbering nonsense, perhaps theres a pigeon on your head spraying feaces every so often since i dont know where most of your junk opinions must come from

Really, know what you’re talking about.

Originally posted by Burning thought
no not really, the character doing anytihng with the scourge is pointless when concerning the LK himself

Good luck justifying yourself there, that’s all I can say.

Originally posted by Burning thought
theres nothing there about the LK the dragon is simply nervous of Sarg, obviously he now realises how stupid Sarg is.

Brox jumps off his mount and through the portal, hoping to buy some precious time for his comrades. He succeeds in managing to bar even a single demon from crossing the portal, then Sargeras himself arrives on the scene and owns Brox badly, but not before Brox manages to actually make a tiny scratch on Sargeras’ leg with his enchanted battleaxe. A piece of Kalimdor’s own magic.

Neltharion arrives on the scene and goes after the Demon Soul that was stolen from him, he manages to break it free from the protective matrix but gets blown miles away and badly injured because of it. The disc falls, Malfurion catches it and with his twin melds with it, attempting to reverse the spell. By now the final portal is almost strong enough to hold Sargeras. To help Malfurion accomplish his goal, Alexstrasza, one of her mates, and Ysera pour their combined power into Krasus as they hold off a horde of shadow bats. Krasus strikes out at the scratch Brox made using all their combined power, causing a slight irritation in the area and Sargeras to drop his concentration for a split second and allowing Malfurion to destroy the portal.

Now how is that “stupid”? More like unlucky.

Originally posted by Burning thought
just as speculative as you "knowing" the fate of LK so he doesnt bother

Just as well, he knows exactly how he is going to die and in order to preserve the timeline he must follow through with it as well. If he chooses not to participate, it means that it doesn’t involve him. Period.

Originally posted by Burning thought
since when? since the beginning, ill find the videos for proof when you actually start showing proof. The guy has shown it several times.

Originally posted by Burning thought
lol.....besides? you could keep saying that until theres nothing left, weve got the war of the ancients which is enough to know how the dragons react for real danger.

What are you even trying to prove here?

Originally posted by Burning thought
When did Mediv say they will beat LK?

He said that with the mortal races to keep order, the world no longer needed a guardian. They just proved themselves by banding together to defeat the Scourge in Kalimdor.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hypocrite? not at all, I said keep debates civil

If you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about, if you can’t support your arguments properly, if your arguments are lacking, then we will call you out for them. It’s up to you how you take it. Judging on your idea of “civil” then you have a very poor misconception of the meaning of “civil” indeed.

To the best of my knowledge childish ten year old insults are not “civil”.
You have been outright ranting and flaming.
Becci and I have not.

You have absolutely no grounds at all to defend your enormous blunder here, attempting to use Becci and I as scapegoats isn’t going to help. At all, to be blunt.

Originally posted by Burning thought
you seem to have a problem with words.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats a massive epic Debate fail if ever i saw one, maybe ill just say that whenever anyone in a debate asks for proof, "zomg kain never done that" then i could just say go buy all the games and spend your moeny on playing them....your an epic fail of a debator lol..

My point still stands, you cannot prove me wrong at all, and if you had bothered to do yourself a favour and buy said books (they’re an excellent read for any WoW fan) then you’ll see that I am right.

Dismissing it as “epic debate fail”, which by the way is painfully cliché and unoriginal, doesn’t exactly help you out you see. I am still not going to go through all the work of scanning and photoshopping simply just to prove a point.

“Omg your fail at debating lol”
Yeah, and I’m not the one accusing others of failing simply because their reference is non-electronic and not easily accessible. (Your use of the WoW RPG as a reference is just the same as me using the novels, hypocrite). If you want information, go bug Richard Knaak. Plague him with emails, if you can find it.

No offense, but because of the fact that you’re so stubborn as to not be able to admit that you’re wrong you’ve dug yourself into a ridiculously deep grave.

Originally posted by Burning thought
if you cant provide proof, it means nothing what you randomly blabber on about

Even if a reference is not readily accessible (in your opinion), it still counts.
For example, let’s say I was writing an essay and I cited a hard to find encyclopedia found only in the University library, and guess what? It would still count, because it’s a published and trademarked document, and that’s what counts.

You need to learn a lesson in what counts as citation/references, and what doesn’t.

It is still proof. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by Burning thought
especially since youve said many wrong things already like how the Aspects were not guardans

They are TASKED as guardians, Neltharion is the MAIN guardian, however they are sloth to perform their duties when someone else is doing it for them (the mortal races.)

I shouldn’t have to keep reminding you, honestly.

Originally posted by Burning thought
when ive proven they are lol, and youve said they are now....obviously correcting yourself to avoid more humiliation at my hands

To be honest, I don’t need to humiliate you.
You’re doing an excellent job yourself. Refer to above posts.

Originally posted by Burning thought
2) unfortaltey i have to recorrect your so called corrections....

Originally posted by Burning thought
3) but you were

no your babling nonsense again, read your posts before you click the submit button, it will save me from having to go through it with you step by step

Originally posted by Burning thought
But thats his Job and shes stopping him from doing it

Originally posted by Burning thought
its his job to stop mages from going crazy with magic, especially lots of them running about using it.

Once, again…go figure.

Originally posted by Burning thought
the LK has an enormous army bigger than any on the world who work on his whim

Originally posted by Burning thought
have so many advantages over other armies

Originally posted by Burning thought
and grow in numbers in battle usually rather than fall

Originally posted by Burning thought
how can anyone know if he is entering their mind, Malygos could be flying and then suddenly BAM the LK before Malygos even knows whats hit him has ripped into the Dragons mind

Due to her close ties with Malygos I would be surprised if she had not taught him some defense against those matter of spells. Look at how some of her brood have become corrupted. I would also be surprised if Malygos did not have some kind of mental ward or protection active at all times.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You said breath weapon can do that blast? ive only heard of it wiping out memories of spells when it hits.

Lich King will be a 10-man raid and a 25-man raid 😛