Master Malygos Vs. Lich King

That providing that the Scrouge down the Legion in a more rapid session then they are downed themselves, and that is highly unlikely that will happen. Devouring a infinite army? Good luck with that. Yes INFERNAL Fire in the Infernals, this isn't the fire from a campfire fel energy that the infernals burn with is corrupted Arcane Energy, frost spells will not be of very great use, furthermore you are forgetting the tactical aspects of this, the Infernals rain down destroyes alot when they hit and isn't ressurrectable by the Scrouge. They can pretty much summon as much as they want, they have done it in War of the Ancient the opening in Warcraft 3 showed infernals begin raining down and there was no Warlocks present to summon them, a lot more will come when there are both Natherazim and Warlocks on the battlefield. Can you proof there are thousands of frost wyrms? No but it's pretty obvious that they have, they used Necromancy quiet actively in the War of the Ancient the Sundering both as a experiment and as a force of attacking, again what do you take the Dreadlords for? The only time they have used it? First this piece of information that it was the dreadlords that invented Necromancy was first showed in 2005 when the Sundering was launched, exactly when should they have showed it again? In the warcraft 3 game where it wasn't known?

Impressive though not compared to a supreme wielder of Magic in all it forms like the Eredar is.

They are no more pathetic then it's a "blessing that there are only few left". There are no picture ore anything else so what you are doing is that you are making a unsupported speculation, the words that is being used surrounding the Dragons of the Legion I have never heard being used about the Frost Wyrms.

Finally, Archimonde was summoned in Dalaran, and he immediately gave control of the Scourge to Tichondrius and the Dreadlords. But the Lich King was not done yet. Archimonde may have removed Ner'zhul's control over the undead, but in his eagerness for vengeance against the night elves, he forgot to return the Frozen Throne to Kil'jaeden. Thus, the Lich King remained at large.

No I'm really not assuming anything, I'm taking the Lich King showings all of them running them through my head and not once have I found a single incident of him mindcontrolling a living human ever. How can both sources be correct when they are claiming two different things? Then I will call it Hyperbole that he is stated as allpowerful is that okay? I would much rather that you actually find something that supports he can, I know it will be hard to find a piece of evidence that don't exist but please be my guest, you could use Arthas when he claimed Frostmourne but since the Frostmourne stole Arthas Soul and the Frostmourne linked Arthas to the lich King that point will be kind of moot.

And yes this is speculation and I will mention it again, it could very easily be the magical erected barriers that proved that the Nerubians was immune.

I'm not the one claiming that he can mindcontrol a dragon with Magical barriers you are remember furthermore you are again entering a area where the Lich King has no feats showings statements etc, but hey good luck finding a source that supports that the Lich King can break Magical Barriers that is placed in the mind, again Because Deathwing can do it, it doesn't mean that the Lich King can, Because Deathwing can raise a Volcano doesn't mean that the Lich King can you get the thought?

No he isn't.

The Point isn't moot BT, because it doesn't mention that he gains any other powers then Necromancy and Mental powers. He had none when he was transformed, there is no mentioning of him gaining others, and what would a fusion with Arthas give him? Arcane Casting perhaps?

Originally posted by Utrigita
That providing that the Scrouge down the Legion in a more rapid session then they are downed themselves, and that is highly unlikely that will happen. Devouring a infinite army? Good luck with that. Yes INFERNAL Fire in the Infernals, this isn't the fire from a campfire fel energy that the infernals burn with is corrupted Arcane Energy, frost spells will not be of very great use, furthermore you are forgetting the tactical aspects of this, the Infernals rain down destroyes alot when they hit and isn't ressurrectable by the Scrouge. They can pretty much summon as much as they want, they have done it in War of the Ancient the opening in Warcraft 3 showed infernals begin raining down and there was no Warlocks present to summon them, a lot more will come when there are both Natherazim and Warlocks on the battlefield. Can you proof there are thousands of frost wyrms? No but it's pretty obvious that they have, they used Necromancy quiet actively in the War of the Ancient the Sundering both as a experiment and as a force of attacking, again what do you take the Dreadlords for? The only time they have used it? First this piece of information that it was the dreadlords that invented Necromancy was first showed in 2005 when the Sundering was launched, exactly when should they have showed it again? In the warcraft 3 game where it wasn't known?

Impressive though not compared to a supreme wielder of Magic in all it forms like the Eredar is.

They are no more pathetic then it's a "blessing that there are only few left". There are no picture ore anything else so what you are doing is that you are making a unsupported speculation, the words that is being used surrounding the Dragons of the Legion I have never heard being used about the Frost Wyrms.

Wowwiki in the Lich King Biography. It was Archimonde that controlled it so his mind powers just outclassed the infinite psionic of the Lich King, also the Dreadlords as shown in Warcraft 3 retained control over the undead even after Archimondes defeat.

No I'm really not assuming anything, I'm taking the Lich King showings all of them running them through my head and not once have I found a single incident of him mindcontrolling a living human ever. How can both sources be correct when they are claiming two different things? Then I will call it Hyperbole that he is stated as allpowerful is that okay? I would much rather that you actually find something that supports he can, I know it will be hard to find a piece of evidence that don't exist but please be my guest, you could use Arthas when he claimed Frostmourne but since the Frostmourne stole Arthas Soul and the Frostmourne linked Arthas to the lich King that point will be kind of moot.

And yes this is speculation and I will mention it again, it could very easily be the magical erected barriers that proved that the Nerubians was immune.

I'm not the one claiming that he can mindcontrol a dragon with Magical barriers you are remember furthermore you are again entering a area where the Lich King has no feats showings statements etc, but hey good luck finding a source that supports that the Lich King can break Magical Barriers that is placed in the mind, again Because Deathwing can do it, it doesn't mean that the Lich King can, Because Deathwing can raise a Volcano doesn't mean that the Lich King can you get the thought?

No he isn't.

The Point isn't moot BT, because it doesn't mention that he gains any other powers then Necromancy and Mental powers. He had none when he was transformed, there is no mentioning of him gaining others, and what would a fusion with Arthas give him? Arcane Casting perhaps?

No army is infnite, and the Legion cannot call down an infnite army either. You cant prove there are thousands of infernals, there is no number in the WC 3 cinematic. Thats a poor excuse, just because this is new info and they couldnt have been shown doesnt mean anything, if theyve not shown more than one period you cannot simply assume their masters.

Thats your opinion, imo their better in the fact they double as Necromancers, Eredar have not shown to be Necromancers have they? show me proof if they have please.

Ime not speculating, it says their animated lumps of burning timber....LUMPS OF FLYING ANIMATED PLANKS OF WOOD!!! 😛 as horrifying as that sounds to me, I dont think the scourge or Frost wyrms will be impressed lol

Well not really, first thats the steadily weakening Lich King, not the current one whos powers are stated to be such, so really this proves nothing, second this was part of the LK plans, he had seen all this.

Hes not mindcontrolled a human but why would he? ive already given you reasons why he wouldnt even need or want to, ive given you range, your the one assuming he cannot.

Apart from the fact Nerubians are not stated to do such things, its like me speculating that LK just allowed Archimonde to take over control for his plans just because it sounds better than Archimonde actually ripping it from LK.

Deathwing raised a volcano to break the mind barrier? or did he use mind powers himself and concentration? oh yes, he did....is that what current LK is masterfully powerful in? oh yes...indeed it is. Drop the point Utrigos.

It doesnt mention he gains any powers at all, you misread it, it just says Lich Kings infnite Necromancy and Psionic power, it doesnt show any limits, your imagnining them there.

I line to armies with full number in front of each other, one is infinite the other isn't which one will win in the end especially since the infinite site is stronger then the none infinite site? I'm not going to debate whether ore not it's infinite because the book contracdicts itself on the matter but I'm tempted to stay with what the Burning Legion section say instead of what the Night Elf section say about the Legion. I didn't say thousands did I ... No I said hundreds, that you haven't read the books where the Eredar warlocks effortlessly summons them isn't my mistake BT. A poor excuse? What about you own "I'm debating a featless character" please... clean before you own door next time before trying to clean before others. Again when did you want the Natherizim to show these skills they haven't had the opportunity and that is a fact not a excuse. Btw still waiting for the proof on the thousands Frost Wyrms.

No they haven't however this line that came when they where retconned says it all regarding there magical abilities

On the planet Argus, Sargeras found the army he sought - the Eredar, a race of highly intelligent beings with a natural affinity for magic in all its myriad forms.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Sargeras

I don't care if you are impressed, the MoM clearly stats that it's a blessing only a few remains in the world, which means funny as they may sound they are still terrifying opponents.

The Old Lich Kings powers was stated to be infinite the game proved that they wasn't since he was losing his power, a infinite power doesn't lose power since the power is infinite. He had seen it al? You mean planned it all right?

I have already mentioned why it would benefit the Lich King highly to take control over humans orcs etc, I further showed that he could call on Kel'Thuzad in Lordaron in Dalaran to be exact but not control him, which would have been much easier then the job of getting Kel'Thuzad on his side etc.

The Nerubians are accomplished mages so what is your point? So the Lich King allowed Archimonde to take his entire army his only hope of defense if Archimonde wanted him dead, from him? The Lich King was overruled it's as simple as that.

Drop a point that requires you to show evidence no I don't think so. I want you to show that the Lich King can break through magical placed barriers please show me you are so sure that it's correct that you must have something to place it on. You didn't get the point of me showing a simple example on that a more powerful being could not accomplishe what a lower being could, so forget the Volcano.

I haven't misread anything, It's you continuing to give the Lich King Powers even when the background information clearly thats that he has Necromancy and Mind and that's it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
I line to armies with full number in front of each other, one is infinite the other isn't which one will win in the end especially since the infinite site is stronger then the none infinite site? I'm not going to debate whether ore not it's infinite because the book contracdicts itself on the matter but I'm tempted to stay with what the Burning Legion section say instead of what the Night Elf section say about the Legion. I didn't say thousands did I ... No I said hundreds, that you haven't read the books where the Eredar warlocks effortlessly summons them isn't my mistake BT. A poor excuse? What about you own "I'm debating a featless character" please... clean before you own door next time before trying to clean before others. Again when did you want the Natherizim to show these skills they haven't had the opportunity and that is a fact not a excuse. Btw still waiting for the proof on the thousands Frost Wyrms.

No they haven't however this line that came when they where retconned says it all regarding there magical abilities

http://www.wowwiki.com/Sargeras

I don't care if you are impressed, the MoM clearly stats that it's a blessing only a few remains in the world, which means funny as they may sound they are still terrifying opponents.

The Old Lich Kings powers was stated to be infinite the game proved that they wasn't since he was losing his power, a infinite power doesn't lose power since the power is infinite. He had seen it al? You mean planned it all right?

I have already mentioned why it would benefit the Lich King highly to take control over humans orcs etc, I further showed that he could call on Kel'Thuzad in Lordaron in Dalaran to be exact but not control him, which would have been much easier then the job of getting Kel'Thuzad on his side etc.

The Nerubians are accomplished mages so what is your point? So the Lich King allowed Archimonde to take his entire army his only hope of defense if Archimonde wanted him dead, from him? The Lich King was overruled it's as simple as that.

Drop a point that requires you to show evidence no I don't think so. I want you to show that the Lich King can break through magical placed barriers please show me you are so sure that it's correct that you must have something to place it on. You didn't get the point of me showing a simple example on that a more powerful being could not accomplishe what a lower being could, so forget the Volcano.

I haven't misread anything, It's you continuing to give the Lich King Powers even when the background information clearly thats that he has Necromancy and Mind and that's it.

As i said, the legion could never field infnite numbers, infnite numbers of soldiers dont excist especially since it doesnt make sense either and whether their better or not is still being debates, imo Felguards a foolish things that get mowed down more than undead, if you knock down an undead its not going to die unless you cut off its head and if your proficient with the RPG a lot of them can have diffrent stats like "will not die" so they will have to be burned. And ive already said, Undead will be infnite. I dont belive the Eredar warlocks effortlessly summoned hundreds and could do it again and again, not to mention with Destroyers ripping all thier maigc away from them and killing half of them with mana burn. Debating a featless character is fine when theres so much official evidence for the guy anyway, if ime debating a featless character then anyone debating characters against him is in the same shadow of doubt and creadbility but i dont belive I am, i have more than enough proof. Well if they havnt had the oppertunity all this time their weak Necromancers, the scourge, liches and other beings revolve around it so theyll be taking corpses first and meatwagons will have new ones. Ive changed it to 100 Frost wyrms, to whatever number you said there will be infernals, and ive still got no infernal proof yet. Although heres some food for thought, if theres not at least a thousand in the entire dead of the ancient dragons AND combined with the blues then ill eat my hat:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Frost_wyrm

In ages past, venerable dragons nearing death flew to the land of Northrend to die. To this day there are entire dragon graveyards littered with massive petrified bones and skulls

Still as i said before, Liches are not only undead which comes with so many powerful strengths, they are Necromancer extroidanaires and have shadow, forst, death and several other kinds of magic powers.

And it clearly states that their lumps of flying wood.

Did it? can you show me please, almsot eveyr piece of information ive got say hes "unfathomable" not infnite. Both,seen it all and planned.

Yes but this shows nothing of mind control at long range, if he could do it, then to smash your argument he would have taken control over all beasts and taken over the kingdoms with them if he had range AND we know he can take beasts, but no, his range is not that high for actual mind control, not then anyway.

Not really, once again your assuming, I have fact saying they were immune then your guessing its magic barriers, these guesses are all they are and i will ignore such guesses since you are simply making this up without real evidence. Why not? Lich King had already seen all this happen, its his plan, Archimonde wasnt going to come and attack him, LK already knows that, what better than to keep quiet while you formulate how to defy the legion, lets say LK could, do you think he would defy Archimonde right there right now while he is helpless in a frozen casque, he just let him have it.

My point stands as it was before, Deathwing, mind barrier<<<<infnite psionic power, your simply repeating the point ive already dissolved, you simply cannot debate against the fact not only have you shown they can be destroyed but by a far esser being than LK.

No youve misread it again, it doesnt say thats all he has, it just says he is infnite in those psionic and Necromancer areas, it dosnt give any definite "no he doesnt have any other school" in that box, please bolden your proof where it says it.

If I make a fight and put both armies infront of each other then they field a infinite number. A undead can die BT it doesn't require that you cut of it's head, give it enough pondering enough to break the spell that animates it and they are dead, Furthermore what is animating the corpses going to help since the Doomguards can dispel the magic that animates the corpses. Yes you have said they will be infinite with absolutely no proof. Combined they rained Hundreds of infernals down on the Night Elfes, that you don't believe it is a shame, but not my problem by the books read them and understand what the Burning Legion really is. That again requires that they isn't being torn apart themselves by the firewreck dragons that has no mana they can drain and use against them. And completely overlooked all the other yes. It doesn't in any way say that there are thousands, and I have already mentioned where the hundreds of infernals also watch around 2:12-2:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MW2INQu7Rs&feature=related

Sorry where is it stated that they have "several other kinds of Magic powers" they only by the Handbooks have Necromancy and Frost. not Several Others, and they haven't been given the statement that they have a natural affinity for all magic.

Coupled with Flesh and burning with fire, which would mostlikely be what the Infernals are burning with demonic energy.

Why it already is, in the Bio should I really post it again?

To this end, the orc Ner’zhul was
transformed into a wraith-like being of unlimited
psionic and necromantic power. Though his spirit was
trapped inside the Frozen Throne of Icecrown, Ner’zhul
sent out a plague of undeath that nearly scoured
humanity from the world.

No it doesn't which is the point a unlimited being isn't limited. Are you enjoying overlooking the point ore what?

Cool ignore my guesses then I will ignore you guess that the Lich King can break through a magical barrier that protects the mind. Because that is guessing too BT, he has never shown it, has never mindcontrolled a Dragon, so there you are the one guessing. He Didn't repel Because of Tichondrius watching him, he counted on that the Human Races would beat him but he didn't know if they could and had no influence on the battle. Unlimited Necromancy and Mental should make him powerful enough to take on such a weakling as Archimonde right....

No it really doesn't stand BT because you have nothing to support it with, that Deathwing can do it, doesn't mean that the Lich King can, the fine little difference is that Deathwing has showed he can do it, what you can at best is to speculate/guess that the Lich King can do it too.

He had nothing prior his transformation, and it's stated that he gains nothing after his transformation so where the hell does the other powers you want to give him come from?

Originally posted by Burning thought
No youve misread it again, it doesnt say thats all he has, it just says he is infnite in those psionic and Necromancer areas, it dosnt give any definite "no he doesnt have any other school" in that box, please bolden your proof where it says it.

Give us one single reason/cause that result in that he would have any other schools of magic than mentioned two. Try keep it logical and skip distant theories and single words in a biography.

I want YOUR view on why he would have more than psionic and necromancy abilities. By your knowledge in lore and not sole words from indirect lore such as the RPG.

Originally posted by Utrigita
If I make a fight and put both armies infront of each other then they field a infinite number. A undead can die BT it doesn't require that you cut of it's head, give it enough pondering enough to break the spell that animates it and they are dead, Furthermore what is animating the corpses going to help since the Doomguards can dispel the magic that animates the corpses. Yes you have said they will be infinite with absolutely no proof. Combined they rained Hundreds of infernals down on the Night Elfes, that you don't believe it is a shame, but not my problem by the books read them and understand what the Burning Legion really is. That again requires that they isn't being torn apart themselves by the firewreck dragons that has no mana they can drain and use against them. And completely overlooked all the other yes. It doesn't in any way say that there are thousands, and I have already mentioned where the hundreds of infernals also watch around 2:12-2:17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MW2INQu7Rs&feature=related

Sorry where is it stated that they have "several other kinds of Magic powers" they only by the Handbooks have Necromancy and Frost. not Several Others, and they haven't been given the statement that they have a natural affinity for all magic.

Coupled with Flesh and burning with fire, which would mostlikely be what the Infernals are burning with demonic energy.

Why it already is, in the Bio should I really post it again? he was created as the unlimited being yet shown great signs of not being unlimited. Case closed.

No it doesn't which is the point a unlimited being isn't limited. Are you enjoying overlooking the point ore what?

Cool ignore my guesses then I will ignore you guess that the Lich King can break through a magical barrier that protects the mind. Because that is guessing too BT, he has never shown it, has never mindcontrolled a Dragon, so there you are the one guessing. He Didn't repel Because of Tichondrius watching him, he counted on that the Human Races would beat him but he didn't know if they could and had no influence on the battle. Unlimited Necromancy and Mental should make him powerful enough to take on such a weakling as Archimonde right....

No it really doesn't stand BT because you have nothing to support it with, that Deathwing can do it, doesn't mean that the Lich King can, the fine little difference is that Deathwing has showed he can do it, what you can at best is to speculate/guess that the Lich King can do it too.

He had nothing prior his transformation, and it's stated that he gains nothing after his transformation so where the hell does the other powers you want to give him come from?

They field as many as the battlefield can hold but I disagree, you can follw the Burning legion one and ill follow the 1million of the Night elves, i think their more likely to tell the truth, can you prove whether this is their current army strength or htat their infitne because they always can make more?. Prove this theory of yours, Undead are moving corpses, prove that they can dispel, show me where they do this. Considering you cannot prove what it means by infnite, it doesnt say current army strength and infnite is not an amount that is possible without it being the fact they can create more, which so can the undead so the undead are just as infnite. Quote exactley what it says please. The firewreck lumps of wood, one shot...wood splinters into pieces....end off...case closed.

Ive seen a grand total of about 3/4 areas where infernal blasts came down.....where are you getting the "hundreds" show me the exact quote, is it narrator or is it fictional character saying it.

Liches can have: Death, Frost, Shadow and Demonic magic powers. But hey, and undead Eredar ftw anyway.

Show me these great signs, your the one saying somethig is a lmitlation, so far he has shown zero limitations, not to mention the fact he is slowly being weakened, his power lessening AND the fact most of his power is in the sword frostmourne.

There is no limitation shown, your guessing again.

Thats not a guess, ive got cold hard fact he has unlmited psionic power. Yes it would, a weakling such as Archimonde...unless ofc your cmpletly forgetting the fact LK has lost most of his power and a lot of it is in the sword frostmourne....but ofc you like to forget such details, it would hurt your argument if you had them all, this case is definaltey closed. Besides why Kill archimodne when you know he is going ot be killed already, LK has more important things to do like getting back together.

Youve already said Deathwing used mind control to break it...LK has mind control, just inifnite amounts of it, thats like saying that Malygos' spells are not more powerful than a hathling just when the Hatchling has shown it and Malygos has not.

After his transofrmation his 10k conciousness is in the minds and heads of countless mages, beings and others that are in the world, not to mention the fact Kiljaeden also had more powers than just Frost and Shadow (hell did he even have Frost, LK may have gained powers Kiljaeden doesnt have anyway which is proven currently), ime not giving him any powers, your just trying to say he definaltey doesnt have any and using no proof or evidence for it, nothing states he doesnt have other powers though its possible he does.

Originally posted by Becci
Give us one single reason/cause that result in that he would have any other schools of magic than mentioned two. Try keep it logical and skip distant theories and single words in a biography.

I want YOUR view on why he would have more than psionic and necromancy abilities. By your knowledge in lore and not sole words from indirect lore such as the RPG.

Kiljaedens power, a being of such a vast mind at the same time as having a conciousness 10k fold looking into the heads of countless mages and beings across the world, iwouldnt be surprised if by now he could use every magic school going except maybe holy, all logicial.

You want my view now? funny you wanted facts earlier, i prvoided facts of infnite powers of Necro and Psionic, provided proof of him being "all powerful" and among the most powerful beings the world had ever known yet you dont like that, so now your asking me for MY view. As ive just stated, there are hundresd of ways he could have every school in Warcraft at his command, then again perhaps he does not...nothing states he definaltey has either although the former is more likely for hte reaons ive just given.

Originally posted by Burning thought
They field as many as the battlefield can hold but I disagree, you can follw the Burning legion one and ill follow the 1million of the Night elves, i think their more likely to tell the truth, can you prove whether this is their current army strength or htat their infitne because they always can make more?. Prove this theory of yours, Undead are moving corpses, prove that they can dispel, show me where they do this. Considering you cannot prove what it means by infnite, it doesnt say current army strength and infnite is not an amount that is possible without it being the fact they can create more, which so can the undead so the undead are just as infnite. Quote exactley what it says please. The firewreck lumps of wood, one shot...wood splinters into pieces....end off...case closed.

Ive seen a grand total of about 3/4 areas where infernal blasts came down.....where are you getting the "hundreds" show me the exact quote, is it narrator or is it fictional character saying it.

Liches can have: Death, Frost, Shadow and Demonic magic powers. But hey, and undead Eredar ftw anyway.

Show me these great signs, your the one saying somethig is a lmitlation, so far he has shown zero limitations, not to mention the fact he is slowly being weakened, his power lessening AND the fact most of his power is in the sword frostmourne.

There is no limitation shown, your guessing again.

Thats not a guess, ive got cold hard fact he has unlmited psionic power. Yes it would, a weakling such as Archimonde...unless ofc your cmpletly forgetting the fact LK has lost most of his power and a lot of it is in the sword frostmourne....but ofc you like to forget such details, it would hurt your argument if you had them all, this case is definaltey closed. Besides why Kill archimodne when you know he is going ot be killed already, LK has more important things to do like getting back together.

Youve already said Deathwing used mind control to break it...LK has mind control, just inifnite amounts of it, thats like saying that Malygos' spells are not more powerful than a hathling just when the Hatchling has shown it and Malygos has not.

After his transofrmation his 10k conciousness is in the minds and heads of countless mages, beings and others that are in the world, not to mention the fact Kiljaeden also had more powers than just Frost and Shadow (hell did he even have Frost, LK may have gained powers Kiljaeden doesnt have anyway which is proven currently), ime not giving him any powers, your just trying to say he definaltey doesnt have any and using no proof or evidence for it, nothing states he doesnt have other powers though its possible he does.

Then do that I will in the mean time then stay with the only known number I have on the Undead Scourge 250.000. So a section that deals with a entirely different race is more likely to tell the truth, where did you draw that conclusion from? They are infinite because they have enslaved thousands if not millions of races throughout the universe, furthermore they can make as many Infernals as they like. A skeleton is a moving corpse that is summoned by a Necromancer, in Warcraft a simple dispel magic can dissolve the Skeleton. In War of the Ancient as mentioned by DarkC the Natherizim animated corpses and used them, however the corpses became corpses yet again when either the Natherizim (caster) was dead, ore when the Magic animating them was dispelled. I don't need to proof what is meant by infinite the word itself is quiet covering, sorry what should have changed concerning a infinite army? The Scourge is infinite as long as there are liches and Necromancers present on the field of animate new corpses when the Necromancers and Liches are gone the scourge will only go one way and that is down in number. And Burning Flesh, and if it was so simple as you would like to make it, the fine little word "Blessing" wouldn't have been used around there low number on Azeroth.

It's Krasus once again saying that the sky itself was filled with Burning meteors. Also in the showned opening there was no Eredar Warlocks present and still that amount of infernals was summoned. Then add in the Warlocks.

A source that stats that the Liches can have Demonic Powers, please.

He wasn't weakened as proved, he shows limitation because of several factors that I have already mentioned try to adress them instead of having me constantly rewrite them. He required the Sunwell to ressurrect Kel'Thuzad, He has failed to show that he can mentally control humans, his power energy which is supposedly unlimited can fade away. All signs of limitation.

When a being with unlimited powers shows a limit that power isn't unlimited that can hardly be called a guess it's rather a conclusion.

And yet he didn't, if he had unlimited Psionic he would have but he didn't. Which is the entire point, he didn't because he was powerless. No at that point of time he hadn't lost any power, he began losing his power when Illidan casted his spell end of story.

Imprisoned within the Frozen Throne, he suspected that Kil'jaeden would send his agents to destroy him. The damage caused by Illidan's spell had ruptured the Frozen Throne; thus, the Lich King was losing his power daily.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter5.html

Again you fail to understand the point, Because Deathwing can break a magical infused mental barrier doesn't mean that the Lich King can. Proof for crying out load that he can, the fact that a Dragon that is entirely different in all aspects from the Lich King can do it, doesn't equal that the Lich King Can however the fine difference is that a Hatchling is a Dragon the Lich King the last time I checked wasn't.

Head of countless Necromancer. Yes Kil'Jaeden had but that isn't the Lich King. It doesn't mention Frost where do you gain the information that the Lich King has frost as his disposal. The Handbook stats that he only has Necromancy and Psionic and that is it.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Then do that I will in the mean time then stay with the only known number I have on the Undead Scourge 250.000. So a section that deals with a entirely different race is more likely to tell the truth, where did you draw that conclusion from? They are infinite because they have enslaved thousands if not millions of races throughout the universe, furthermore they can make as many Infernals as they like. A skeleton is a moving corpse that is summoned by a Necromancer, in Warcraft a simple dispel magic can dissolve the Skeleton. In War of the Ancient as mentioned by DarkC the Natherizim animated corpses and used them, however the corpses became corpses yet again when either the Natherizim (caster) was dead, ore when the Magic animating them was dispelled. I don't need to proof what is meant by infinite the word itself is quiet covering, sorry what should have changed concerning a infinite army? The Scourge is infinite as long as there are liches and Necromancers present on the field of animate new corpses when the Necromancers and Liches are gone the scourge will only go one way and that is down in number. And Burning Flesh, and if it was so simple as you would like to make it, the fine little word "Blessing" wouldn't have been used around there low number on Azeroth.

It's Krasus once again saying that the sky itself was filled with Burning meteors. Also in the showned opening there was no Eredar Warlocks present and still that amount of infernals was summoned. Then add in the Warlocks.

A source that stats that the Liches can have Demonic Powers, please.

He wasn't weakened as proved, he shows limitation because of several factors that I have already mentioned try to adress them instead of having me constantly rewrite them. He required the Sunwell to ressurrect Kel'Thuzad, He has failed to show that he can mentally control humans, his power energy which is supposedly unlimited can fade away. All signs of limitation.

When a being with unlimited powers shows a limit that power isn't unlimited that can hardly be called a guess it's rather a conclusion.

And yet he didn't, if he had unlimited Psionic he would have but he didn't. Which is the entire point, he didn't because he was powerless. No at that point of time he hadn't lost any power, he began losing his power when Illidan casted his spell end of story.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/chapter5.html

Again you fail to understand the point, Because Deathwing can break a magical infused mental barrier doesn't mean that the Lich King can. Proof for crying out load that he can, the fact that a Dragon that is entirely different in all aspects from the Lich King can do it, doesn't equal that the Lich King Can however the fine difference is that a Hatchling is a Dragon the Lich King the last time I checked wasn't.

Head of countless Necromancer. Yes Kil'Jaeden had but that isn't the Lich King. It doesn't mention Frost where do you gain the information that the Lich King has frost as his disposal. The Handbook stats that he only has Necromancy and Psionic and that is it.

250k in glaciar. thousadns and millions are not infinite, you obviously dont know the meaning of the word. But this whole paragraph copy and paste in the other section, this is for Lich King debate.

Having infnite power with an artifact and not having infnite power without it is not a weakness of the power so that point ive busted. Having not shown it doesnt mean he cannot, he doesnt do a lot of things he "could" do but PIS ftw, unless ofc PIS doesnt work in Warcraft and Mannaroth died fairly to the all powerful Hellscream.

But theres no limit, your looking at this crookedly especially since the LK doesnt have his power so high without Frostmourne which is basically the whole game.

YouTube video

The game itself and LK himself says otherwise.

Would have what? your guessing now what he "would" have done, i dont think i need to say whats so badly wrong about that part of your argument it would be an insult to your intellect. And Illidan didnt take Frostmourne from LK which held LK power, the sending of the blade as the video clearly shows is why he is weak.

But it does because Deathwing used mind control which LK has, and has far more, so he would break it too, your not understanding obviously.

He gives frost to the Liches thats why, how can he give what he doenst have.....

Originally posted by Burning thought
250k in glaciar. thousadns and millions are not infinite, you obviously dont know the meaning of the word. But this whole paragraph copy and paste in the other section, this is for Lich King debate.

Having infnite power with an artifact and not having infnite power without it is not a weakness of the power so that point ive busted. Having not shown it doesnt mean he cannot, he doesnt do a lot of things he "could" do but PIS ftw, unless ofc PIS doesnt work in Warcraft and Mannaroth died fairly to the all powerful Hellscream.

But theres no limit, your looking at this crookedly especially since the LK doesnt have his power so high without Frostmourne which is basically the whole game.

YouTube video

The game itself and LK himself says otherwise.

Would have what? your guessing now what he "would" have done, i dont think i need to say whats so badly wrong about that part of your argument it would be an insult to your intellect. And Illidan didnt take Frostmourne from LK which held LK power, the sending of the blade as the video clearly shows is why he is weak.

But it does because Deathwing used mind control which LK has, and has far more, so he would break it too, your not understanding obviously.

He gives frost to the Liches thats why, how can he give what he doenst have.....

Mentioned to have a Infinite amount in the twisted nether and mentioned to have fielded Billions in the War of the Ancient, either way it's still more then enough to defeat the Scourge. Infinite can be many things however in this particular incident it would be numbers, hence the numbers of the Legion would be beyond count, line them up and make them walk for all eternity you will not reach the end and yes it sounds inlogical, but when the Legion can construct as many infernals as they like and other constructions then I can keep counting.

Says What "return the Blade" "Now we are one" what exactly are you talking about?

Please show me where it stats that him removing Frostmourne made him go from Infinite to finite, please by all means, because the fact remains that it was when Arthas returned to Lordearon after Illidan had cast his spell that the Lich King began losing his power.

So now you are going for PIS as the reason? You fail to understand the incident in which PIS can be brought in, PIS is when one being loses to another less powerful being, ore when a being restricts from using his powers because of the plot but you are drawing PIS forward to justify the Lich King lacking of operating on levels that he has never shown, there has been no inconsistant showing with the Lich King except after the Lich King was attacked by Illidan.

No it's really simple BT, Because A is more powerful then B and B can raise a Volcano it doesn't mean that A can. Because the Lich King is more powerful in the mind then Deathwing it doesn't equal that the Lich King can break through a Magical mental Barrier, And may I add still no proof...

I have no idea but it shows that the Bio isn't correct, and that the RPG contradict itself on some points however had you entered the combat section and accepted those abilities which are legitemate imo then he would have had it but going by the Background he doesn't have it.

Twenty Pages shall we call it a draw and move on to the Legion vs Scourge?

sure for now, ill post an answer to that tomorrow however but may as well carry on to the Legion VS scourge as our main debate, this one can become a sub debate and to be fair the main debate has gone off topic from LK vs Malygos to discussions mainly around LK power in general. The scourge VS legion is a better debate, we know more on them than LK.

No need to wait to we have more on the Lich King, I think it would be more fun then this speculation also I feel I cannot keep a Cold Head anymore, that is when it's time for me to move on for a time anyway 😉

And agreed *rallying the websites books and quotes and moving with a roar towards the Scourge vs Burning legion Thread*

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ive got more proof than you have, ive got RPG, official sites

Your sad lack of understanding how referencing works is not helping you here, at all.

Honestly. It’s simply stupid how you attempt to attack every single point I make even if I’m right, because it just simply shows how overobsessed with this debate you are. You’re attempting to flaunt your references to mine for some reason, despite them technically being on the same level of validity.

Such a terrible excuse for a poor argument.

Originally posted by Burning thought
WoWwiki which has its own refrences

If the site has references of its own anyways, why don’t you mention them instead? You make no sense. Wowwiki is not all-powerful – considering that anyone can edit it as they wished, not just Blizzard Employees.

Originally posted by Burning thought
besides, youve got a few quotes, half of which are irrelevant

“Your argument fails”
“You are irrelevant”
“Your sources fail”
Right, right.

You cannot even explain why, you simply just repeat them over and over as if it had meant something. See, even below you’re still doing it.

Problem is I have more evidence than your scraps of irrelevent quotes from a few books.....

Three pages later and you still haven’t offered me a viable explanation as to why my sources are invalid, despite me asking for it. You simply continue to abuse them.

Originally posted by Burning thought
thats not a good argument all, show me your best arguments
wahts your arguments? list them please and with the fact and proof that you claim you have besides them and then ill do the same.

It’s already been shown in the past that even in their world under attack and in threat from complete destruction the dragons and even the Demigods still have trouble taking action despite being aware of the peril in the world. There was a passage with a conversation between an unknown red dragon and blue dragon, and both of them said to the other that the night elves were foolish, but they would not take action until one of their Aspects commanded so.

Even with the Legion’s assault on Azeroth long underway the dragons did not mobilize until the end of the second book, and the demigods the middle of the final book.

2 – The Burning Legion is technically a greater army at its full strength

Originally posted by Burning thought
[b]lets finnish this once and for all

This is just proving my point before, you’re too far into it that it’s clouding your judgement. It’s just dumb, you just offered some cliché challenge to me like it’s some corny futuristic fight between the bad guy and the good guy.

This isn’t “duel of the fates”, son, it’s a debate. Dear Lord.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I can say if your not a good debator at all

Read that passage where I replied to your silly trash talking that you needed to teach me how to debate. See that? That’s why you’re an absolutely disgusting excuse for a debater, you violate so many things it’s not even funny all the time, just sad. That’s why there’s so much in that post.

Originally posted by Burning thought
just like you can say I dont know much about the lore, i can say the same about you and your weak range of arguments and your obvious misunderstanding of information. a lot of the quotes youve given me are irrelvent 100%

You’re not bothering to explain why at all, you’re just making these claims repeatedly.
When I ask for support or an explanation, you simply continue to either abuse my argument itself, or simply continue to make your own unsupported claims. Like I’ve said, claims like these need support. Actual support, not just repeating them time and time again.

“Irrelevant”
“Irrelevant”
“Yeah, how?”
“They’re just irrelevant”

That’s what you keep doing, you simply state your claim again.

One of my earlier arguments addressed this habit of yours, and so far in this first post you’ve successfully proven me correct. It’s a pattern that is so redundant, that you cannot even stray from it even if I’ve told you too and pointed out why your logic or your point is faulty. It’s not that hard to understand why: it lacks support.

No backup, no support = failed argument.

I’ve already reminded you of this several times, and from the looks of it I am probably going to have to continue to as well.

Originally posted by Burning thought
your sourcies are weak, theres nothing to make of them except mockeries...

Care explaining why they are “weak”, and why they are only good for “mockeries”? The authors, when they were writing the books, were guided and endorsed by Chris Metzen himself. Metzen was a big fan of Richard Knaak, even. In the Warcraft Archive, before each part Metzen included a small section on how the book got started.

Laugh at that, if you will. And explain why this time instead of doing what you’ve been doing for the last 4 pages or so.

Originally posted by Burning thought
you dont have any credability, since you have no points backed up with zero evidence as well.

Originally posted by Burning thought
...so ime on better footing than you are.

Good try. Keep telling yourself that.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your the one inventing reasons why he is just sitting

He hasn’t exercised his power yet at all.

Originally posted by Burning thought
he could have easily by now wiped all the forces out of Northrend

So either you’re bullshitting as you go along, or you’re correct and the Lich King is an apathetic idiot.
Either way, you lose.

Originally posted by Burning thought
hes doing nothing for a reason we dont know yet

Originally posted by Burning thought
he has more than enough forces to wipe out most of the world once again and this time he can actually join in with the forces.

The Scourge army still does not outnumber anything the Alliance and Horde can muster up together.
We’ve got 1,200,000 Horde and Alliance altogether. Take a good look at in-game evidence.

About how many of that 1.2 million do you think are farmers (that can be made into soldiers anyways), children, and women (that can also be made into soldiers anyways)? This is World of WarCraft, like I said. If you think about 5/6 of the Alliance-Horde population in WoW are completely useless as fighters then that’s simply a ridiculous notion. It’s not even an assumption either, just common sense.

As Chris Metzen himself said in an interview once: “It isn’t ‘PillowfightCraft’ ”.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No not at all, the Horde and Alliance are not stated in any source youve shown so far to have number superiority in their armies

Refer to above post, for terms of number superiority.

Originally posted by Burning thought
the entire church of the light religion has around 800k members, some of which include horde as well, this is the belivers in this religion, you have no idea how many actual soldiers are accounted for in this

Most, if not all, of the Alliance hold the Holy Light as their main religion. The Church of the Holy Light, which it is, created its own military ward and section prior to the second war, remember? They called it the Knights of the Silver Hand. The order of the Paladin was founded by Archbishop Alonsus Faol himself, the Knights by Uther (At least I think it was). This proves that the clergy are not sloth to stand by when there is danger to be dealt with.

It isn’t impossible to be a soldier and also be a member of a religion. The sisterhood of Elune, for example, are trained expertly in warfare. Turalyon from the Silver Hand was recognized for both his faith and his martial prowess, and made for an excellent commander. The clergy doesn’t have to necessarily fight either to be of use in a war.

Originally posted by Burning thought
and its not likely theres mo soldiers in the populations of all the alliance than there are civilions either.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Then youve got the Horde which contribute to some of the religion seen above, not to mention their only 400k strong, the entire horde, trolls etc etc

Being young or old for a Horde doesn’t matter as much, unless you’re an infant or are extremely old (even then, look at what Drek’Thar can do). Even the peons can be trained to fight.

Originally posted by Burning thought
then you have to ask yourself, can a footman really take out, perhaps two footman take out an abomination

Originally posted by Burning thought
hell they are not likely to be able to take on a skeleton/zombie due their undead adventages in actual lorewise battle, not gameplay.

A zombie/skeleton will survive more, but they’re much more fragile. Also, it isn’t as if he can cause a great load of damage to someone as heavily armored as a footman, especially if they don’t wield a large amount of great personal weapon skill either.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its not larger, show me your undeniable proof please of them having larger forces, and smarter? no not really LK>any mortal who will be leading and most if not all immortals.

The notion of two war-hardened factions not being able to muster up more than that especially in their current time setting, one that revolves around conflict and war is simply just ridiculous. Demands for proof? Proof isn’t even required, it’s simply common sense. Asking for proof here is like asking for tools to measure the rubber content of a tire simply for the sake of confirming the fact that you’re looking at a car, haha.

The Lich King may be incredibly wise and powerful, but he has little true military experience and training. He has not grown up in the battlefield. He has to depend on the knowledge of Arthas from his time as a Paladin, who was technically still in training by the time he was made into a Death Knight. Simply because he is powerful and knowledgeable does not make him, as Nozdormu said earlier, omnipotent.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Prove this, again youve got nothing but non accurate rubbish to say the Legion is so much greater than the scourge

The Burning Legion was fighting an army that consisted of almost every single intelligent race on the planet fighting as one, and still their army far outshadowed the Kalimdor Host. Krasus attested to them making only a very, very small dent in the Legion forces.

Originally posted by Burning thought
, every time one of the legion falls they will add to the scourge as well, imo an undead Felguard>normal one.

Judging from the infantry strength of each individual soldier (a Felguard vs a Ghoul? That isn’t even a contest, it’s a slaughter) and the relative amount of each army (Enough said earlier) the Scourge will kill a lot of Felguard, but not significantly enough to replenish their own forces.

The Legion can happily just soften the Scourge up by raining Infernals down left and right.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Problem is I have more evidence than your scraps of irrelevent quotes from a few books..

Originally posted by Burning thought
...your a joke but one that is not even slightly amusing. You are delusioned, as my main post above says, list your points ill prob annhilate them all in one blow and when youve got now arguments your many posts of mainly just bashing and weak workarounds to mimic real points are getting boring.

Anything else to add?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Another mimic workaround...

Lovely, now you’re simply evading my accusations, refusing to address them as usual.
Instead you seem to be content on attempting, yet again, to dismiss my points as “mimick workarounds”, which loosely translate to “irrelevant”. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it.

Not very original, are you?

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ime comparing sizes because if Scourge>>the main and largest human kingdom, it would if it so wished slaughter the others....the Alliance had nothing but death to lie back on.

Think about what you said, you now just suggested (in conjunction with what you claimed earlier) that the undead population of a single kingdom of a single race just outnumbered the military of all other races and factions entirely. Actually some of those undead aren’t even part of the Scourge. That’s why we have the Forsaken, remember?

What a remarkably naive thing to say on your part.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No you cant prove anything, Champion does not mean he is more powerful than Aman'thul

Doesn’t look like it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Same with Darth Vader being basically the Champion for the Emperor, its the same relationship, onyl where the Emperor is far more powerful.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ive crushed all your points already

Originally posted by Burning thought
your just making poor workarounds, sort of like trying to stick them together with celetape.

Originally posted by Burning thought
All those points are made up for 100 fold greater than any dragon by the Fact the Lich King is controlling them who is>>other intellects.

Originally posted by Burning thought
It doesnt run out, otherwise there wouldnt be 250k sitting in icecrown, dont contradict your own points, youve already said somewhere that LK is building his army if he had the old 10 secon+ gameplay timer on his army he isnt going ot be sitting around and there wouldnt be 250k in icecrown

Learn to think outside the box, for once.

Originally posted by Burning thought
once agian, stop making me have to lecture you on your own points and debating

Originally posted by Burning thought
, its not funny.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its logic, you think a skeletan that would survive a massive pike going through its body (hell its skeletal so it may even come out the other side)

Originally posted by Burning thought
is going to be stronger than a dragon that would die of the same wound (then rise at the Lich Kngs command)

Yeah, let’s get a little more realistic here, WoW-wise. Thanks.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Outnumbered by children, gee your right the Scourge are doomed.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Its funny i thought you would understhand that yourself but hell, i give you too much credit,seem i have to help you with debating AND comedy it was a joke.

Read above.
It’s interesting how you keep forming these generalizations.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The Scourge resurrect forces, so yeh.....they would have those classes

Would the Five Elemental Spirits answer to an undead shaman?
Would nature respond to an undead druid?
Would paladins and priests retain their use of Holy Magic?

No, they wouldn’t. The fact that you don’t realize this proves that your knowledge of the lore behind those classes is laughable at best.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I said most likely because I dont know the entire class list you would have pulled out of your hat

Originally posted by Burning thought
so i had to say most likely before your information was on the board didnt I? dont be as weak minded in all this debate please...its quite annoying

Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not spamming ,that was between points

Show me why I’m “worse” than you then, according to your own logic. Quote me directly and explain how, instead of making your shit claims continuously.

Originally posted by Burning thought
and the last "HAHAHAHA" was a mockery to your own point

so you fall flat on your face in this respect, you seem to have no idea.

Are you just casting about wildly to find random excuses simply to insult me or my points again, just like you really have this entire time? The very last argument in my previous post proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt, you’re jumping at shadows much of the time.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Hostility number one, your first post against me I think it was, and you were hostile.

I asked you why you were doing something, because it’s exactly what you were doing at the time. I didn’t even attack you because of it, just inquired.

Originally posted by Burning thought
You immediatley started the assumptions when you started saying how characters would be above the Lich King.

The one reason why there was a Warcraft series at all, chronology and plot wise, is because Malfurion and his friends thwarted Sargeras from crossing over the portal. Sargeras, as stated in the books, would have doomed the planet instantly from the moment he entered.

Originally posted by Burning thought
So? if he wants to sit he can be my guest if he wants to get up for one and kill a few dragon aspects and annhilate the spirit of Elune then he can do that as well, i wont stop him doing anything....

How would he even annihilate Elune when she has no apparently embodiment whatsoever? Her presence permeates all of Kalimdor, she never magically appears as an embodied being.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, what works against them is the fact theyve had all this experiance, time and apprent ability yet they have failed utterly and so far have lost 2 commanders, one of htem being the founder and most powerful of the legion

Remember, he’s a druid; he has the essence of the entire world feeding his strength when he truly needs it. And he very nearly came close to failing nonetheless.

It isn’t so much the Legion’s fault at failing as it can be attested to the actions of others that made their failure possible.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yet theyve only had a few major battles

Originally posted by Burning thought
Why do you keep spouting such BS? first even if somehow you provide real evidence for Legion being the reason for the splitting of the world, thats nothing.....

Stop downplaying everything I say.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Nerzhuel as an Orc ended up destroying a whole planet

Great job, wasn’t it?

Originally posted by Burning thought
good for the legion noobs and you cant expect me to belive that that was part of their plan either, it was an accident in the old lore and in the new from what youve said of the books.

It’s the results that matter, and the result was that Azeroth was pretty much in ruins, after the first Sundering.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Ime overhyping nothing, as ive said many times

Here’s one example:

kill a few dragon aspects and annhilate the spirit of Elune

Originally posted by Burning thought
Not at all, getting carried away? whos possibly able to outsmart him? noone...

Originally posted by Burning thought
And their kingdoms and sovreignity is anything on Terenes? no....they are irrelvent

Originally posted by Burning thought
no the point is cracked to pieces, the Scourge have succeeded all [b]so far and survived all so far the Legion has succeeded in some and lost many, as well as not survived[/b]

Point stands, Legion has left an uglier scar on Azeroth than the Scourge have.

Originally posted by Burning thought
their main commanders dead, one decorating Hyjal like a pretty monument, prob to be resurrected when LK feels it necessary.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Right so the elderly and such are going to be conscripted "starts to clap" well done!! and your assuming the size of the Elderly, women and Children

By conscription, women can volunteer to fight but are not required. Men between the ages of, say, 21 to 50 are conscripted to fight. You ever study WWII? Napoleon?

And that’s just for the humans too. Dwarves, for example, and orcs, their strength doesn’t fade for a long, long time. Again, look at Drek’Thar if you want an example.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Now your completyl collapsing, so rediculous...even the children fight?

I highly suggest you read both Lord of the Clans and Rise of the Horde again. The fact that you seem to find evidence “funny” says clearly to me that you do not have any understanding about this point at all. You even went so far as to ignore my argument and evidence completely.

Originally posted by Burning thought
please...to have to result to trying to turn this into something intelligent is funny, but no ill not do a "Dark C" and spam laughter.

Interesting how after I proved you wrong in this one regard (you’re attempting to use humor as an escape) you’re trying to bring it up again, but in disguise and an attempt to mock me because of it, when in actuality you’ve done worse.

By the way, you’ve still yet to prove me wrong, you’re simply just blustering your way through right now.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No, you fail to notice the Alliance-Horde information youve found includes everything, the Alliance part being the Religious base, not just their population which makes it a major fail in teh respect it says clearly on the same source of info that Horde are also added to this religion.

It isn’t as if every single member of the Alliance is a member of that Church, apparently it’s a long process to actually become a priest. Congrats, you’ve just dug a little deeper. You’ve attested to saying indirectly that the Alliance house a larger number than 800,000.

You can still believe in the religion, but not actually be a member of it.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Also no, your not listening, obviously you need to read through the posts again, your losing the grip on the situation, the 250k was in Icecrown glacier alone, not the entire scourge army.

Originally posted by Burning thought
No you destroyed notihng, your mimicing an argumetn and posting hypocricy,

See, this is just another example of you making shit claims without any real backup.

Originally posted by Burning thought
your not funny

Originally posted by Burning thought
just sad for finding 800k and mashing it into your post in idiocy and igorence of what that number means.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I have to make parodies, your posts are comedy incarnate, ime just helping it along.

Simply another Boeing 747 flying completely over my head, but nice to see you wasting effort nonetheless. But hey, maybe it will make you feel better.

Originally posted by Burning thought
None afaik, Neubians completly physically and high elves technically. Who on Azeroth have the Legion compeltly destroyed?

No, he didn’t even come close to destroying the elves, they’re changed, but not racially, not physically (with the exception of the mana addiction). Blood Elves are simply extremely pissed off High Elves with a thirst for mana, nothing else. You simply cannot deny that at all, they are unchanged for the most part as a race.

I never claimed nor implied that the Legion completely destroyed an Azerothian race, so I’m not even sure why you’re bringing that up. The closest that they came to was the Night Elves.

Originally posted by Burning thought
I did read your posts, I know full well Nozmordu knows time and knows when he is going to die if hes going to die at the hands of the Lich King then he knows thats when hes going to die...

How the Lich King is going to cope with an entity that can manipulate time at will is beyond me, anyways.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Bashing someone is hostiltiy, even if it is just calling someones points fanboyish theories

Like I said, go and ask one of the mods to take a look at that one post that you “think” started it all, and I can near guarantee you that if they understood the current circumstances, they will not classify it as bashing. You need to learn the difference.

If you think having your points being dismissed as “fanboyish” statements (they’re not even worthy of being called theories, they’re simply just zealously said comments) when in actuality they are, then it’s not my problem.

I say it again: Stop being so sensitive.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your the one saying its ranting, what you call ranting I could call joking like the pigeon shit thing same with flaming, post where i flamed you please?

No backup.
No support.
Simply just a string of insults.

You can try to lamely pass it off as a “joke” (seems a little late now for that alibi, don’t you think?) but I guarantee you that it will not get very far at all.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Well unless you can prove Malygos up there with the most powerful the world has ever known, standing side by side with the Old Gods, then why are you even trying to pull along and repair your broken arguments?

Lore wise, Artha’s level of power when in comparison to the Old Gods is negligible, it took many Titans to even force them into captivity, when the Pantheon first shaped Azeroth.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Your points are dead, using proof is fine, all your points are not as high proof howver regardless of what auther names you give me compared to an actual source i can show you in which case all your information are low in creadability in comparison to my actual sites and official info i can [b]show you then combine that with the fact half your quotes are irrelvent and dont help your point, its foolery. [/b]

Because you cannot have proof that can be shoved right underneath your nose doesn’t mean that it doesn’t count, Burning. It exists. You simply attempt to deny them because you cannot see them. The quotes are within the books themselves, which makes it harder for you apparently to believe them. It doesn’t matter whether you dismiss them as rubbish or not, because being a published Blizzard-endorsed document/product, it counts.

I could just as easily dismiss your use of the WoW RPG as complete shit the exact same way you’re doing so to the books, like I said. You’ve done nothing more than link me to Wowwiki (which doesn’t count as an “official” source, being a fan-based site) and cite me to the WoW RPG, which is not presentable evidence. Technically the only presentable evidence in case of the other not actually owning the source, would be the an official Blizzard website.

Rant all you want about it, Burning, but hey, it still counts! Nice try though.

Originally posted by Burning thought
yes I told you why i reply to your rubbish, for the sake of showing how stupid it is and hopefully you will not repeat it.

You’re hopeless, really.

Originally posted by Burning thought
As ive said before and 100 times over, half your claims are not backed up by real evidence half the facts themselves from your quotes are irrelvent you make bad conclusions and weak assumptions based on the fact like as i said befor

It’s mindless babble, is what it is. Like I said, no matter how many times you repeat it, it will not make a claim fact if it has no backup whatsoever. They’re just empty claims, like trying to decrease the ocean level with an eyedropper.

Originally posted by Burning thought
"zomg far more than the scourge" from the quote of some Elven soldier which doesnt really add up to much due to the fact you dont know where he is can you show me where the elf is?

Knowing the exact location of the host is useless as well, considering that the landscape changes after the Sundering.

Originally posted by Burning thought
for example if hes sitting behind a hill, the Horizon is a few metres away lol...

Originally posted by Burning thought
then we have the irrelvent dragon quote, you prob cannot provide anything real and useful.

Please learn about proper referencing. Thanks.

Originally posted by Burning thought
learn scourge AND numbers please mr.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Prob not but they would survive a stab in the chest, arm, stomach several times over, will a man? no...and will he rise again after? yes, will the fallen undead? yes again...they would rise until the source (LK) of their undeath is stopped.

As shown in both gameplay and lore, the ability to resurrect the dead on the battlefield by either does not last forever. If the necromancer perishes or his mana runs out, then the dead lose their animation. I have already proven this, using gameplay mechanics from Reign of Chaos, and a novel.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The disease, curse etc etc, everything would stil be a very powerful attack even if it can be removed, while priests or shamans are removing something or healing

Originally posted by Burning thought
(which the undead dont need)

The fact that the Scourge do not have superior unit to unit capability on similar levels means that a lot of them are going to die if they don’t get healed. A ghoul cannot deal with a single footman. On the other hand, a huge amount of Alliance/Horde forces will be saved because they are being healed. The Scourge are at an enormous disadvantage here.

Originally posted by Burning thought
they are not doing other things and Obseidion destroyers would put an end to half the buffs and debuffs in the whole area.

Mages have remove curse and spell steal.
Priests have dispel magic.
Paladins have cleanse.
Shamans have purge.

Etc, etc.

Originally posted by Burning thought
What if its the LK? their their undieing forces, also you cant expect me to belive the Alliance are going to have much luck at all their soldiers will be rising up besides them, their figuires of army size will dissolve as the Scourge increase, they will be overwhelmed even if your assumptions on their size is indeed over the scourge....

For the soldiers to rise up against them (which doesn’t happen instantaneously anyways, lore wise) they have to be killed first. Considering that:

1.) They outnumber the Scourge.
2.) They are going to be healed and protected by their magical forces, it’s highly unlikely that the Scourge will raise enough undead to supplement their own forces by a significant amount.
3.) The Scourge completely depend upon their Necromancy. It’s their greatest advantage, but can be a weakness. If a mage or a paladin dispelled a frost wyrm right as he was making a pass over the Scourge host to attack, well…if you’ve read the second Warcraft manga, you can see what happens.
4.) So far the Scourge have not had any battles that were two armies lined up against one another on an open battlefield, they have had no experience in the matter. Both the alliance and horde are too familiar with the aspects of such a scenario. The Scourge have had most of their success in skirmishes and sieges, but not open army-to-army warfare.

Originally posted by Burning thought
The LK can see the battlefield, and the future of it, if he sees things he can react if he needs to

Originally posted by Burning thought
and troop superirty, Frost Wyrm>>>Alliance soldiers.

Besides, a squad of trained dwarven gryphon riders could easily outmaneuver a Frost Wyrm in air to air combat, confuse it, and eventually take it down completely. They’ve done it to a dragon.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Through his 10k conciousness I assume
if its not that, then its something else, the same way he knows how Arthas will be his champion before the scourge even begin and what will happen with Archimonde.

Originally posted by Utrigita
No need to wait to we have more on the Lich King, I think it would be more fun then this speculation also I feel I cannot keep a Cold Head anymore, that is when it's time for me to move on for a time anyway 😉

And agreed *rallying the websites books and quotes and moving with a roar towards the Scourge vs Burning legion Thread*

indeed lol, okie this debate is terminated, Draw