Would you mind showing me where it stats that the Lich King would be capable of damaging the mind of Malygos which during the War of the Ancient as already mentioned by Becci I believe proved that he had quiet excellent mental defenses. The only beings that the Lich King have the proof of which minds he could enter before they turned undead where the inhabitants of Northeren.
He could try taking his soul however taking the Soul of a Dragon isn't as easy as it seems, the Dragon has to willingly give up a part of there soul for it to be taken, hence why Deathwing crafted the Demon Soul.
The Lich Kings mind would be far beyond Malygos' defences, he instantly takes over beings near icecrown at his weakest, a Dragon in his most powerful form will not be difficult, and Becci did not prove Malygos has excellent mental defence, where?
what? nothing states this, can you show me please? Deathwing is not capable of taking souls anyway, and where does it say they gave a portion of their souls? i thought it was only their power.
I would like you to show that the Lich Kings attack capabilities against Malygos would easily overcome his Mental defenses. Except that he doesn't what beings that wasn't undead have he easily taken over when he was at his weakest, None if I recall Correctly. A while back I believe...
They gave up a part of themselves, hence Deathwing had total command over the remaining aspects and there Dragon Flights, that was the reason to that he easily exterminated nearly all the Blue Dragons (except Malygos) in the war of the Ancient. Except that he when turned evil commanded black magic... as for the black magic part
http://www.wowwiki.com/Black_Dragon
Schools fire and shadow.
Originally posted by Burning thought
then Malygos has no chance if he has to think to do something, thats Lich Kings specialty
Right: You know that It has never been done in the history of Warcraft, right? A lot of people have had mind powers, but not one single one has inflicted any direct internal damage on a mind. What exactly makes you think Lich King can do it against one that actually is resistant against mind magic?
Originally posted by Utrigita
I would like you to show that the Lich Kings attack capabilities against Malygos would easily overcome his Mental defenses. Except that he doesn't what beings that wasn't undead have he easily taken over when he was at his weakest, None if I recall Correctly. A while back I believe...They gave up a part of themselves, hence Deathwing had total command over the remaining aspects and there Dragon Flights, that was the reason to that he easily exterminated nearly all the Blue Dragons (except Malygos) in the war of the Ancient. Except that he when turned evil commanded black magic... as for the black magic part
http://www.wowwiki.com/Black_Dragon
Schools fire and shadow.
From the confines of the Frozen Throne, Ner'zhul began to reach out his vast consciousness and touch the minds of Northrend's native inhabitants. With little effort, he enslaved the minds of many indigenous creatures, including ice trolls and fierce wendigo, and he drew their evil brethren into his growing shadow
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/story/chapter4.html#26
fully alive creatures, trolls who are fairly intelligent also so their not just "beasts" either, it shows he can do it, whether or not he could take out Malygos we dont know, although where is Malygos' mind resistence?
I know and none of those were souls, just essences, no soul attacks here, hence no soul resistence or "dragons have to freely give up their souls"
Originally posted by Becci
Right: You know that It has never been done in the history of Warcraft, right? A lot of people have had mind powers, but not one single one has inflicted any direct internal damage on a mind. What exactly makes you think Lich King can do it against one that actually is resistant against mind magic?
Show me Malygos being resistent again the mind please and resistence against the most powerful mind attack using being in the history of Warcraft is diffrent compared to complete immunity or resistence against a minor force.
Anyone that has the ability to manipulate magic can cast mental barriers and wards to protect their minds. Illidan did it in the War of the Ancients novels to protect his thoughts from the Burning Legion when he was pretending to work with them for a while. Malygos is the embodiment of magic, of course he can protect his mind with it.
Originally posted by Burning thought
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/story/chapter4.html#26fully alive creatures, trolls who are fairly intelligent also so their not just "beasts" either, it shows he can do it, whether or not he could take out Malygos we dont know, although where is Malygos' mind resistence?
I know and none of those were souls, just essences, no soul attacks here, hence no soul resistence or "dragons have to freely give up their souls"
I'm fully aware of that however you claimed that
he instantly takes over beings while at his weakest
which isn't the case, infact if anything he is losing control at his weakest not taking control else he would have defeated Illidan and his army by himself... And yet no showing of him containing a human being with his mind alone, why do you think he drived the scrouge into the human village in the first place (there is a reference on the very same link you used) Most likely because he couldn't control the humans unless they where undead.
To sacrifice a piece of ones essence is to sacrifis a piece of ones soul, Hence Deathwing had total command over the aspects and there dragonflights. I know there wasn't no soul attack...
And for one to use a soul rip the being must be near death...
Originally posted by DarkC
Anyone that has the ability to manipulate magic can cast mental barriers and wards to protect their minds. Illidan did it in the War of the Ancients novels to protect his thoughts from the Burning Legion when he was pretending to work with them for a while. Malygos is the embodiment of magic, of course he can protect his mind with it.
Then hes going to need the most powerful mind protection in the history of warcraft, personally, i think he would fail.
Originally posted by Utrigita
I'm fully aware of that however you claimed thatwhich isn't the case, infact if anything he is losing control at his weakest not taking control else he would have defeated Illidan and his army by himself... And yet no showing of him containing a human being with his mind alone, why do you think he drived the scrouge into the human village in the first place (there is a reference on the very same link you used) Most likely because he couldn't control the humans unless they where undead.
To sacrifice a piece of ones essence is to sacrifis a piece of ones soul, Hence Deathwing had total command over the aspects and there dragonflights. I know there wasn't no soul attack...
And for one to use a soul rip the being must be near death...
He is still at the point i mentioned far far weaker than the current Lich King youve put up against poor Malygos. Not at all likely, since Ice trolls are similiar to Gurubashi trolls and priests, some of which are more intelligent than any human, he likely made the scourge attack humanity due to them being pathetic morsals, why the hell would he want weak human bodies when he can have undead corpses with far fewer weaknesses? i think ive said that before.
Exactley, there was none, and no, i disagree, Essence is diffrent to soul, essence is simply a piece of your being, a soul is your spiritual excistence, otherwise is the essence of air we find from elementals or such their souls? i dont think so.
Can you show me this please? them being near death? Illidan who is far weaker than LK can draw souls out. The LK would prob just rip it from the dragon before it has a chance.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Then hes going to need the most powerful mind protection in the history of warcraft, personally, i think he would fail.
Save for the actual Pantheon...... he does.
Why do you think he would fail? Lich King has mind magic. Malygos has mind protection. Malygos pretty much IS magic. What makes you think Lich King's magic can penetrate his mind?
I dont belive the mind is magic so i dont think Malygos has any chance in the matter, it sure didnt help the adult dragon Archimonde used TK to crush, until official non gameplay info can show mind powers as non magical ill keep that view.
But anyway either way i doubt any barrier of Malygos is going to stop the LK mind powers for long, if at all.
And Malygos is not not magic itself, he is simply its guardian
Originally posted by Burning thought
He is still at the point i mentioned far far weaker than the current Lich King youve put up against poor Malygos. Not at all likely, since Ice trolls are similiar to Gurubashi trolls and priests, some of which are more intelligent than any human, he likely made the scourge attack humanity due to them being pathetic morsals, why the hell would he want weak human bodies when he can have undead corpses with far fewer weaknesses? i think ive said that before.Exactley, there was none, and no, i disagree, Essence is diffrent to soul, essence is simply a piece of your being, a soul is your spiritual excistence, otherwise is the essence of air we find from elementals or such their souls? i dont think so.
Can you show me this please? them being near death? Illidan who is far weaker than LK can draw souls out. The LK would prob just rip it from the dragon before it has a chance.
You where still wrong. Yet he didn't use the scrouge on them, he deliberately choose to use the scrouge on the humans, not the trolls which empire was defeated by the Night Elves, he couldn't mentally take control over the Nerubians which shows that his Mental capacity isn't limitless. Undead with fewer weaknesses? A zombie is more effective then a regular human? A zombie will pretty much just walk forward while a human will try to use his surrondings to his advantege.
I essence is a part of you being, not you physical manifested self, but the mental manifested self, now to me that a part of a soul, also again the name should really speak for itself "the Demon Soul" and before that is was the "Dragon Soul" Soul is used both times. So a Elemental Being in warcraft doesn't have a soul??? What holds the power in Warcraft the soul what contains the power the physical husk. The most clear example of this would be the lich King losing his power because of a crack in his iceprison. But it's a matter of perspective and religion I guess.
Drain Soul steals the soul from the enemy. If the enemy dies while channeling, and yields experience or honor, this makes you get a Soul shard
http://www.wowwiki.com/Drain_Soul
And when have Illidan drawed out a soul? Source.
Originally posted by Utrigita
You where still wrong. Yet he didn't use the scrouge on them, he deliberately choose to use the scrouge on the humans, not the trolls which empire was defeated by the Night Elves, he couldn't mentally take control over the Nerubians which shows that his Mental capacity isn't limitless. Undead with fewer weaknesses? A zombie is more effective then a regular human? A zombie will pretty much just walk forward while a human will try to use his surrondings to his advantege.I essence is a part of you being, not you physical manifested self, but the mental manifested self, now to me that a part of a soul, also again the name should really speak for itself "the Demon Soul" and before that is was the "Dragon Soul" Soul is used both times. So a Elemental Being in warcraft doesn't have a soul??? What holds the power in Warcraft the soul what contains the power the physical husk. The most clear example of this would be the lich King losing his power because of a crack in his iceprison. But it's a matter of perspective and religion I guess.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Drain_Soul
And when have Illidan drawed out a soul? Source.
No but the Nerubians had special immunity to said effects, few other beings, at least not dragons have had such immunity stated. A zombie is more effective than a regular citizien, a group of villagers, hell even a footman is weaker......a combie can have 10 swords stabbed through its chest and it wouldnt be worried, it would push on, even if it was disembowed, a human, citizien or a regular guy with a sword<<<<Zombie<<<<<Skeleton
Whats that WoW warlock skill ime well aware of supposed to show? how is it helping your argument?
here:
Draw Soul: Illidan will drain targets in front of him in a similar way to Cone of Cold, dealing 5k shadow damage and healing Illidan for 100,000 HP. Shadow based spell. Resistible.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No but the Nerubians had special immunity to said effects, few other beings, at least not dragons have had such immunity stated. A zombie is more effective than a regular citizien, a group of villagers, hell even a footman is weaker......a combie can have 10 swords stabbed through its chest and it wouldnt be worried, it would push on, even if it was disembowed, a human, citizien or a regular guy with a sword<<<<Zombie<<<<<SkeletonWhats that WoW warlock skill ime well aware of supposed to show? how is it helping your argument?
here:
And you think that Malygos cannot put up the same barriers against the Lich King? Deathwing placed mental barriers around his mind when he discussed the Dragon Soul with the remaining Aspects. Illidan who is far below Malygos during the war of the Ancient was capable of putting up strong mental defenses strong enough to fool Sargeras... I really hope you are talking about outside gameplay mechanics because else it's the other way around entirely Footmen>Skeleton>Zombie.
A warlock skill, a skill that the Lich King doesn't have, unless you would care to show me where it stats that the Lich King can command Warlock spells which no matter how generous I am that power undeniable got stripped away from him by Kil'Jaeden.
Thanks, it certainly looks more like a version of lifedrain, anyhow would you please care to show me the instant where the Lich King have ripped the soul from a being without the being was in contact with the Undead Plague ore mentally dominated by the Lich King?
Originally posted by Utrigita
And you think that Malygos cannot put up the same barriers against the Lich King? Deathwing placed mental barriers around his mind when he discussed the Dragon Soul with the remaining Aspects. Illidan who is far below Malygos during the war of the Ancient was capable of putting up strong mental defenses strong enough to fool Sargeras... I really hope you are talking about outside gameplay mechanics because else it's the other way around entirely Footmen>Skeleton>Zombie.A warlock skill, a skill that the Lich King doesn't have, unless you would care to show me where it stats that the Lich King can command Warlock spells which no matter how generous I am that power undeniable got stripped away from him by Kil'Jaeden.
Thanks, it certainly looks more like a version of lifedrain, anyhow would you please care to show me the instant where the Lich King have ripped the soul from a being without the being was in contact with the Undead Plague ore mentally dominated by the Lich King?
Malygos may be the master of magic on Azeroth, but ive seen no proof to state he is better at it in ever level, especially considering characters like Illidan have had many off-world powerups. Illidan may be a better mind protector than Malygos is, and protecting your mind or trciking another is not the same as being completly taken over.
I almost always talk out side gameplay mechanics, thats why undead>Humans in a real battle, you can chop them to bits or try and theyll still carry on not getting fatigued, not requiring nourishment to excist etc etc
your the one saying LK has shadow powers, which would include soul drain, is there an official sourece that states only warlocks can drain souls? I doubt there is, you dont have to be a Lich to use frost for example, mages can do that, or a fire elemental to shoot fireballs, LK has dark power, its likely he has soul devouring. Illidan is no warlock although he gained power from the skull of Guldan that merely made him a Demon entity, i dont remember it saying he actually gained warlock powers from it.
No, i cannot, like the whole of this theoretical debate, this is also theoretical, imo this thread itself fails terribly for the fact LK no matter how people whine about it has no real showings of power, especially at this period, he has simply shown masterminded genius, foresight and mental power, but I doubt that is the only powers he has at his current stage.