Ultimate Cap vs 616 Spider-Man

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So lets forget about Ult. Cap vs Ult. Juggernaut-only his low showings matter.

What are we even talking about? I didn't bring up the subject of low showings. Daredevil1 brought up low showings for Ult. Cap. And then I countered that 616 Spidey has got them himself. I never postulated using low showings as a basis in this thread whatsoever until people started using them against Ult. Cap. Are you confusing me with someone else again? 😬

No I'm not, this time. But Spiderman with his upgrades is too much for Ult.Cap. He is too strong too fast and has a wealth of battle experience.

Yeah. A person with class 25 strength is obviously too much for Ult. Cap. Except for the fact that Ult. Cap has taken on foes like Ult. Hulk, Herr Kleiser, Ult. Goblin, Ult. Juggernaut, a gang of SHIELD supersoldiers, a gang of Chinese supersoldiers and Ult. Abomination. Yeah. Class 25 strength. Whatever will Ult. Cap do? Hmmm.

Maybe upgraded Spidey's venom stingers will help?! Yeah, that oughtta do something... to a guy... who... fought a dozen SHIELD supersoldiers while injected with a dose more than a million times the lethal amount. Hmmm.

His agility might give him problems. Yeah sure, Ult. Cap runs around weaving through bullets and dodging lasers and the like and is faster than 616 Cap, but I can quite easily concede that Spidey has an agility advantage. Even though nobody has posted agility feats that make Spidey look vastly superior to Ult. Cap, let alone 616 Cap's. So maybe that's a plus. As for battle experience? Pfft. You act as if he's some rookie. I would take Ult. Cap's vastly superior tactical mind and arguably better fighting skills anyday.

And in the end, if you want to know what's too much for 616 Spidey to handle? It's all of that wrapped up in Ult. Cap's durability. Hell, a double-fist piledriver by Ult. Abomination didn't even knock out Ult. Cap. What would an upgraded Spidey manage better than that? The only times Ult. Cap was ever completely beaten in a fight that ended was: 1) when he just woke up all discombobulated, was getting tranked, attacked by SHIELD and held down by Giant Man (of course, he wasn't even knocked out as he was wriggling under there); and 2) by Ultimate Magneto (not knocked out then either); and 3) by being tranked 1,000,000X the lethal dose with tetradotoxin and getting assaulted by SHIELD supersoldiers who put his head through a tombstone AND still had to get speedblitzed by a friggin Rocket Man who had to hit him so hard, he caused an impact like this:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You have got your logic so backwards, it pains me to read your posts. Of course he was stronger later on in the battle you numbnuts. I was the one who point it out! Which, of course, comitantly means he was weaker earlier on in the battle. But guess what? Ult. Hulk was STILL strong enough to tear through a reinforced tank RIGHT at the moment Ult. Cap takes it to him with his punches and kicks. So no matter what loopy logic you use to argue that Ult. Hulk had "his strength sucked away by Ult. Wasp," he's STILL strong enough to rip apart a tank.

Name calling I'll take that as a sign that your losing the debate. You pointed out something that I knew. Bottom line is it makes U.Cap putting him down briefly even worser then what you started.

OOOOOOOOOOOOH WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW breaking a tank apart thats definitely up there with class 100 strength feats of 616 Hulk like walking through energy that can move a planet or shattering a asteroid thats twice the size of earth or redirecting a blast thats capable of wiping out a dimension.

😆

So we have the Ult. version of Batman taking on Ult. Cap. And Ult. Cap is actually winning the battle without his shield. Hmmm. You want to use low feats? No problem. Spidey has had worse performances against street levelers than Ult. Cap has. Bottom-line. He also has had worse performances against human opponents with no super strength or durability. Tombstone, BEFORE he got his powers, beats on 616 Spidey in Spectacular Spiderman #142. Daredevil has knocked out a bloodlusted symbiote Spidey. Punisher has famously embarassed 616 Spidey as well. And Red Skull straight up embarassed Spidey BEFORE he received 616 Cap's cloned body. It's funny how every new point you try to bring up... you just keep digging your position into a further hole.

No I haven't even touched true low feats for U.Cap but if you want to head that route how about a group of humans holding him down when he was facing zola. Or him working out with a puny 500 lbs something weight, yeah I'm sure 616 Spiderman does that to work out.LOL Or him admitting he couldn't defeated a group of armed men, while U.hawk eye did it easily. Or getting owned by the loser that is U.Giantman as he smashed him in a jeep and U.Cap could do nothing about it.

And you still haven't shown a single god damn scan that shows Spidey to be greatly superior to Ult. Cap's scans. It must make you so annoyed that I've asked it for half a dozen pages going and you can't produce. And you still haven't touched half of Ult. Cap's feats because you know you can't.

You did it for me LOL. In durability Juggs punching on Spiderman more then once with you lame ambiguous pic of U.Abomination.

What handbook are you talking about? The 2005 Handbook on the Ultimate universe places him at Strength Level Four and never limits his max strength to 2 tons. It is the only entry that I know of for his character. But I've always hated handbooks also, so I've never bothered to use that crap. Just to let you know: [/B]

It was one of the first ones that classed them and even stated U.Spiderman is at 4-5 tons.

Doesn't matter the point remains you haven't shown any feats of U.Cap that rivals Spidermans strength or durability.

Oh stop blubbering already. I already proved with scans that Ult. Cap's durability, at the very least, rivals 616 Spidey's. You still haven't shown a single scan that proves 616 Spidey is vastly superior to Ult. Cap physically in any respect. And your constant illogical equivocations regarding Ult. Cap's strength are just too silly to repeat. But I'll repeat em anyway, "Ult. Hulk get his strength sucked away by Ult. Wasp, "Ult. Abom never really hits Ult. Cap," "Ult. Hulk has to be Savage Hulk's level otherwise the fight is meaningless," "Older handbooks are better evidence than newer handbooks," blah blah blah blah. The constant throughout this thread is that you cannot post a single scan of 616 Spidey clearly being Ult. Cap's superior physically. Not once. It's clear why you're forced to resorting to the most inane equivocations and dodging more than half of Ult. Cap's feats, like his tetradotoxin feat, Chinese supersoldiers feat, Herr Kleiser fight, 600 ft dive, etc. You don't have vastly superior Spidey scans. Only scans that rival them. Ergo, you've been cornered through attrition. Scans and proof are your only way out. You don't have em. At least Phantomzone is trying.

And please. Resorting to low feats for Ult. Cap? I already explained the context of Giant Man holding him down and Ult. Cap working out in a normal gym. I have no idea what you're talking about where Ult. Cap admits he couldn't defeat armed men. Scan? Issue number? But using the militiamen who restrained Ult. Cap in Ultimates Annual #2 as a low feat? Are you kidding me? Ult. Cap has beat the crap out of SHIELD supersoldiers while poisoned and wrestled free from Chinese supersoldiers who toppled the Statue of Liberty. You'd think there would be a contextual explanation as to how Ult. Cap is restrained by ordinary men? Well there is. Here is a scan of what happens just prior to Arnim Zola capturing him. Ult. Cap drives a god damn semi into a reception tower and causes a massive explosion. Ult. Cap's obviously in the middle of all that since he climbs out of the frikkin wreckage. Hell, I think Ult. Cap's underrated, but even I can admit that being inside a clusterf*ck like that would hurt him considerably. Guess you either forgot about this or you're trying to mislead people again. Well, you can't. I'm posting the scan for everybody's benefit. You phail. Low feat, my a$$. It's just another durability feat that you can't clearly top with 616 Spidey. Thanks for mentioning it to me, I almost forgot about it. Your own worst enemy, you are:

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yeah. Ult. Abom looks like he's going easy on Ult. Cap here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029

[/sarcasm] I get what you're saying and it's possible he kinda just gave him "a half-force blow." But that's really reaching and not very likely. Why? Fact is, we've seen Ult. Cap get pounded on by foes like Ult. Hulk and Herr Kleiser already. We've seen him fight through SHIELD supersoldiers while poisoned to an unbelievable degree. It's very much more likely that Ult. Abomination hit him hard, because in order to soften him up for Abdul, he'd have to hit him hard. And considering Ult. Abomination's stance and the obvious illustration and his own words, "This is gonna hurt." Yeah...

I know you've read Ult. X-Men. You're a big fan of Ult. Colossus. Ult. Juggernaut took on Ult. Colossus and knocked him out in their first encounter. Since when does Ult. Juggernaut get put out of commission from falling out of a building? And if he doesn't get knocked out from falling out of a building... then what happens? Regular ole SHIELD agents come in nonchalantly and handcuff him? I mean, even when you guys ignore the fact that Ult. Cap's kick makes Ult. Juggernaut go flying horizontally through a wall (which is impressive on its own)... you reaaalllllyyyy have to stretch to think that Ult. Juggernaut was either: 1) knocked out from a subsequent fall; or 2) regular SHIELD agents subdue him off-panel. It's an obvious illustration and depiction, Ult. Cap takes out Ult. Juggernaut. Apply Ockham's Razor guys. If it's easier to explain things one way without having to strain, then that's probably the right interpretation. What's so incredibly ridiculous about him taking out a foe like Ult. Juggernaut? He's gone H2H with Ult. Hulk and knocked him out briefly. He took on Herr Kleiser and put him down for a spell. He held up trees that were crushing military trucks. He kicks the utter crap out of SHIELD supersoldiers WHILE poisoned to the Nth degree. He escapes the grip of Chinese supersoldiers who friggin toppled the Statue of Liberty. What's so ridiculous? I mean just look at it:

...All he does is kick Juggy through the wall. That's all. You're the one stretching here. 😐 Obviously SHIELD didn't detain him, as he was out and about later on in the series (showed up in order to retrieve Rogue). He probably just decided to peace out of the fray so that there would be no chance of him getting arrested. He got kicked through the wall and then left the fight. To me, that's a lot more believable than him getting KOed by Cap's kick. As it is JUGGERNAUT afterall. 😬

First Off, Ult. Cap is ranked able to lift 2 Tons at maximum.He his superhuman, of a low level compared to 616 Spidey who has above Class 20 of Strength and physically outclass him in most sectors.The fact is that Ult. Spidey is a rookie, and his strength ain't nowhere that of 616 version.In their struggle in Ultimate Six Cap was talking to Pete trying to make him reason, instead of punching him down, which he could have done with big ease.The only things that makes Ult. Cap better than the classic one are his increased brain capacity which make him a master tactician even above the Classic one, and the fact that he kills his enemies and his also more vicious and ruthless so usually doesn't hold back.This means Spidey not knowing who's this Cap may die, cause he doesn't kill and because durability wise, he ain't that much above Cap.

This is just silly can't be bothered with this thread any more.

Peace.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
...All he does is kick Juggy through the wall. That's all. You're the one stretching here. 😐 Obviously SHIELD didn't detain him, as he was out and about later on in the series (showed up in order to retrieve Rogue). He probably just decided to peace out of the fray so that there would be no chance of him getting arrested. He got kicked through the wall and then left the fight. To me, that's a lot more believable than him getting KOed by Cap's kick. As it is JUGGERNAUT afterall. 😬

Either way, at the very least, since you're well aware of just how tough Ult. Juggernaut is, you recognize how impressive kicking Ult. Juggernaut and sending him flying sideways through a wall is in the first place. You go ahead and think about the strength required for that feat alone and you'll probably find that we're not too far apart.

Originally posted by K3VIL
First Off, Ult. Cap is ranked able to lift 2 Tons at maximum.He his superhuman, of a low level compared to 616 Spidey who has above Class 20 of Strength and physically outclass him in most sectors.The fact is that Ult. Spidey is a rookie, and his strength ain't nowhere that of 616 version.In their struggle in Ultimate Six Cap was talking to Pete trying to make him reason, instead of punching him down, which he could have done with big ease.The only things that makes Ult. Cap better than the classic one are his increased brain capacity which make him a master tactician even above the Classic one, and the fact that he kills his enemies and his also more vicious and ruthless so usually doesn't hold back.This means Spidey not knowing who's this Cap may die, cause he doesn't kill and because durability wise, he ain't that much above Cap.

In this issue Cap downs Thunderball for a briefly in this book it was even stated Thunderball can handle a bit Thor's hits as Hawkeye reminded Cap.

And 616 Cap makes him see stars and spouts out blood.

Cap again defeats a Namor clone. This Namor clone defeated the real Namor and the original human torch. Sinestro himself coudn't comprehend how Cap did it.

OMG 616 batted around King Thor and put him down.

He must be class 20..........LOL

Only if you ignore the circumstances with Cap vs King Thor and U.Cap vs U.Hulk.

I accept circumstances for the both of them. You seem to cherry pick whatever you like at the time.

LOL rivals Spiderman strength.

Seriously.

Spiderman lifts up the darn daily bugle.

Yeah U.Cap little weight scene and tree are so impressive.

Spiderman lifts a tank easily.

And wrecks two other tanks.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10655905

eh that above U.Cap feat is impressive.

But here 616 matches it or exceeds it. As Cap survives a insane airplane crash. Without shield or his Cap suit.

http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica20704co4.jpg
http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=captainamerica20705lx5.jpg

10-15 vs 20-25? I'd say that rivals. Spiderman's strength is not vastly superior to Ult. Cap's. If 616 Spidey was say... class 40-50, I'd say that was vastly superior. But finally! Spiderman scans. Do you want me to accept that scan as it's depicted or shall I spout off some bias like, "No. He only supports it! It's not that heavy! That's a bs high-end feat! I've seen Spidey struggle with less! Spidey gets knocked out by Daredevil! Lololololololololol!!!!111" It's wonderful to see that you can easily and completely endorse that Spiderman can lift the Daily Bugle building, but you completely disbelieve that Ult. Cap gets pounded on by Ult. Abom here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029

It must be nice to be as biased as you are. And although it's off-topic, I'd hardly equate a depowered King Thor, having battled Hulk and Thing for hours and losing his arm, to the Ult. Hulk vs. Ult. Cap tussle. You want to keep ignoring that Ult. Hulk was still strong enough to rip through a tank (twice the size of those in your scans) like it was paper and compare that to the King Thor scan? Please. Now that's just foolish, kid. 616 Spidey is not vastly superior to Ult. Cap in terms of strength. As far as I've shown, Ult. Cap is superior to Ult. Spidey in durability. And with the sheer amount of punishment necessary to take down Ult. Cap, combined with his strength, weapons use, superior tactical mind and arguably better fighting skills? He can take 616 Spidey.

6/10. Ult. Cap.

P.S. I'm repeated it ad naueseam. I don't really care about 616 Cap. This thread is about 616 Spidey vs Ult. Cap, k? Get it through your head.

wait a sec is some one really trying to argue that ult capt has 10 to 15 ton strength..................

Didn't you put me on ignore? Or are we playing hide and go seek?

If you jsut responded to me I can't read it.............

If some one honestly believes that ultimate capt is a 15 tonner or even a 10 tonner there off there rockers................

Since the only time a single person has said 10-15 ton strength was me in my previous two posts on this page... and not a single person has quoted me... or even referenced that... pretending that you can't see my posts is pretty lame.

Dude, if you want to pretend like you're completely ignoring me, that's fine. But it's painfully obvious you're choosing the option that allows you to look at my posts individually. Get a life, please. This is worse than trolling.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
10-15 vs 20-25? I'd say that rivals. Spiderman's strength is not vastly superior to Ult. Cap's. If 616 Spidey was say... class 40-50, I'd say that was vastly superior. But finally! Spiderman scans. Do you want me to accept that scan as it's depicted or shall I spout off some bias like, "No. He only supports it! It's not that heavy! That's a bs high-end feat! I've seen Spidey struggle with less! Spidey gets knocked out by Daredevil! Lololololololololol!!!!111" It's wonderful to see that you can easily and completely endorse that Spiderman can lift the Daily Bugle building, but you completely disbelieve that Ult. Cap gets pounded on by Ult. Abom here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029

It must be nice to be as biased as you are. And although it's off-topic, I'd hardly equate a depowered King Thor, having battled Hulk and Thing for hours and losing his arm, to the Ult. Hulk vs. Ult. Cap tussle. You want to keep ignoring that Ult. Hulk was still strong enough to rip through a tank (twice the size of those in your scans) like it was paper and compare that to the King Thor scan? Please. Now that's just foolish, kid. 616 Spidey is not vastly superior to Ult. Cap in terms of strength. As far as I've shown, Ult. Cap is superior to Ult. Spidey in durability. And with the sheer amount of punishment necessary to take down Ult. Cap, combined with his strength, weapons use, superior tactical mind and arguably better fighting skills? He can take 616 Spidey.

6/10. Ult. Cap.

P.S. I'm repeated it ad naueseam. I don't really care about 616 Cap. This thread is about 616 Spidey vs Ult. Cap, k? Get it through your head.

LOL you show your ignorance as always. Like you mentioning Daredevil defeating the Spiderman when his mind was out of wack and severely hindering him as Daredevil even commented on it.

Or your so called one shot of U.Juggernaut which you still make excuses for despite your lack of proof.

I just showed above that Spiderman's strength feats are "superior" to U.Cap strength feats. LOL

And with your bias you still believe he rivals 616 Spiderman which is laughable at best.

No I said U.Abom hit on U.Cap does land but not solidly and misses some of its force. And lets face it U.Abom telegraphed it a bit far as he leaps. U.Cap is stupid he knows hot to go back with the hit.

And wait I also see you set yourself up on a double standard like calling out like saying 616 Cap rolled with a blood lust Ironman punches but not U.Cap. Ha!.

Spiderman 7/10

PS. Yeah King thor was hurt and back to his original powers but even so he showed he could put his energy through Cap's unbreakable shield which even Hulk and gladiator couldn't dent.

So I find it more impressive then U.Hulk. "shruggs"