Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Daredevil1, there are three distinct problems with your assertions. Despite the literal depiction of Ult. Abom hitting Ult. Cap, you believe Ult. Abom doesn't really hit Ult. Cap here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=10341029You assumed your own conclusion. "Since he's not that durable, he couldn't have been hit squarely. Otherwise he would have been squashed. Since he wasn't squashed, he wasn't hit squarely. Therefore, he's not that durable." The bottom-line is, Ult. Abom is very strong. He hits Ult. Cap as is illustrated on-panel. Ult. Cap is not squashed. What does that mean? Ult. Cap is pretty damn durable. Which makes sense considering the beatings he's regularly taken and the fact that he's only been ever knocked unconscious once in a fight, despite his career of taking on clearly stronger foes.
Where did I say U.Abom isn’t strong? And were did I say squashed? When I mean flattened you misunderstood me. I mean the fists above his head going down upon him like a hammer hitting the top of the nail. By the illustration of the scan this is not the case at all as he is going back with it as his legs seem to be under the fists. Actually if you check my posts above I clearly state I am impressed with U.Cap durability/damage soak in comparison to his not so impressive strength feats in comparison to Spiderman.
You have a better case with the hits that Ultim Cap took from his U.Hulk fight when U.Hulk was indeed on top and hit him. But we at lest know at that time U.Hulk was weaker then the one that U.Thor faced thanks to Shield.
My second problem with your assertions is your use of a double standard. You opine that since Ult. Cap is not seen for several pages before getting up to fight Abdul (even though it was a cutaway scene to Ult. Hulk's arrival), he must have been knocked unconscious. So why don't you apply this logic to the Ult. Juggernaut one-shot? There, we had Ult. Juggernaut getting kicked through a wall and never being seen again through the comic but being confirmed as captured on-panel. In that situation, by your own logic, there's even more evidence that Ult. Juggernaut was knocked unconscious. So why are you selectively applying logic only to undermine Ult. Cap but not when it supports Ult. Cap? The obvious answer is bias.
Because in the very first scan that you link it shows U.Cap flat on the ground(now just imagine that double-whammy of fists over him in that position then you would certainly know he can’t go back or roll with it)……..as I was saying flat on the ground with his eyes closed. Do we see U.Juggs in the same position with your alleged one shot? As in lying on the ground with his eyes closed just like U.Cap. The answer to that is no of course. Also I could be wrong on this, but this was also the U.Jugg prior to receiving his gem as well IIRC. But anyhow we don’t see him down with his eye’s shut.
Plus after we see U.Cap down, then we see 7 pages into the book time-frame as the book ends and we still don’t see U.Cap get up Ultimate v2 #11. The obvious answer is bias.
Then in v2 #12 the first page we see is again U.Hulk smashing things together. Then finally comes in your last scan that you put in your post U.Cap is still down then we finally see U.Cap getting up finally in the panel of that page.
Finally, I don't agree that Ult. Cap was ever knocked unconscious. There are five reasons why: 1) After getting double-fist piledrived into the ground, Ult. Cap grunts, "UNNGGHH!!" when he goes flying through the wall; were he unconscious, he would not have uttered anything; 2) although he could have been knocked unconscious from the fall (highly unlikely), Abdul actually speaks to Ult. Cap and tells him to get up, as opposed to wake up; 3) the cutting away to Ult. Hulk's arrival could have happened before, during or after Ult. Abom hits Ult. Cap; 4) Ult. Cap is never depicted as regaining consciousness, or being groggy, with squiggly dialogue balloons... he's just illustrated as getting up; 5) right before getting up, he spits, "Ptui," and requests a name before fighting, had he been unconscious, he would have been unaware of Abdul's challenge. He never asks, "What's going on? Who are you? What do you want?" All he does is ask for a name before duelling him.
Him making a noise UNNGH!  but anyhow. My own brother tells me get up when I’m asleep so it’s a very non point. And someone can utter pain and then passed out in the end from dizziness, it isn’t unlikely. Who are you? U.Cap actually does indeed as who his name is to boot.
Funny you say U.Cap is not depicted as regaining consciousness, or being groggy, with squiggly dialogue ballons….he’s just illustrated as getting up
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No matter what, he knocked out Ult. Hulk.
Funny you say Ult.Hulk is knocked out, as he's just illustrated as getting up; 5) right before getting up, he says, "Ptui," and requests U.Cap to stop what he was attempting to do. All U.Hulk does is say get that thing away from me like he heard what he was going to do.
But anyways you have a better case for U.Cap being KO’ed or hurt or U.Hulk being hurt or KO’ed then you do with the no show anywhere U.Juggs “shrugs”
The difference with the U.Cap and U.Hulk one was the many pages time frame difference and how they answered when they got up. As I’ll elaborate further below
For your interpretation to be true, Ult. Cap must not have been knocked unconscious from gettting double-fisted piledrived or thrown through the wall, but only after falling to the ground. Abdul must be talking to himself by requesting an unconscious man to get up. The artist never bothered showing Ult. Cap regaining consciousness. And Ult. Cap must have read Abdul's mind while unconscious. That doesn't make sense. It's too strained. The easiest explanation is the simplest: Ult. Cap gets knocked down (but not unconscious), listens to Abdul's challenge, accepts it and asks for a name before fighting him: [/B]
U.Cap can be more calm and composed than most he is a super-soldier after all, so him asking his name could just interest U.Cap at that. And him listening to the challenge of one vs one and no one getting involved was after the fact, not when U.Cap was down. But after U.Cap got up then he listened to that.
Which shows the difference in U.Cap being down then with U.Hulk being down. As U.Hulk there wasn’t much of a time from of things going on and then some in the start of the next book. Plus how they responded when one got up. One was asking for his name the other was responding to the plan as if he had known what was said.
Which also shows U.Cap doesn’t mind a code in a one on one battle as he did with the Russian Super-Soldier as well. So no mind reading involved, just U.Cap’s curiosity and confidence of wanting to know who he is going to have to try and put down. As he asserted the same thing with the Russian Soldier. Again not much of a point.
