Wolverine (finally! The Revamped Respect Thread!)

Originally posted by The Real Wolvie
Wolverine has stood up to Spidy and has gotten the better of him on a couple of occassions. He's pinned him to the ground, kicked him in the balls by flipping around when spiderman was holding him, and tagged him a couple of times. His overall speed is probably significantly less than Spidey's (foot race), but his H2H speed and striking power probably equals it or is at least close to it.

Also, Wolverine has faught Carnage to a stalement...there is no reason to think they are not relatively even.

Wolverine cannot fight Carnage to a stalemate, Carnage would hand him and Spider-Man their asses collectively. I was just saying Spider-Man didn't question his speed against Carnage (who his significantly faster than Logan) and Spider-Man doesn't even have his Spider Sense to fall back on against him.

You don't want me to bring up secret wars do you? He got the drop on all of them.

My real argumentation was that Spider-Man thinking he was slower than Wolverine is just silly (or maybe not since Parker questions himself). Dodging bullets when they've already came in your path (not aim dodging) and going between the blades of a chopper is fast. He has also dodged rain before. When characters are put into crossovers they are going to be placed on even levels anyways, or it will be a draw somehow. Parker is a literal speedster, a light speedster but a legitimate one. That should be taken with the weight of the "neck break" comment.

Hulk vs Batman, Wolverine vs Lobo, Venom vs Superman, etc. Just overall bad evidence to use. 😬

However I am significantly impressed that a Wolverine fan admitted Spider-Man was faster in movement speed, this was how it used to be. So you get my respect for that. Fighting speed is a bit different, Spider-Man doesn't fight like Wolverine. More launching and bouncing instead of flailing in strikes.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Anybody can stand up to somebody, and I'm not trying to even argue the encounters. The kick in the balls was the "mistaken identity fight", he's been pinned to the ground by Spider-Man (Logan doesn't even have the strength to pin him).

Kick in the balls was not the mistaken identity fight. Spiderman new who he was fighting. The mistaken identity fight was on the roof top, and wolverine was waring a costume which he was not wearing when he kicked spiderman in the nuts.

also the kids mistaking the pin event. He talking about after capt death when Spiderman flipped out and attacked wolverine, who bull rushed him into the wall and popped his claws to warn peter he was crossing a line he did not want to cross.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
cannot fight Carnage to a stalemate, Carnage would hand him and Spider-Man their asses collectively. I was just saying Spider-Man didn't question his speed against Carnage (who his significantly faster than Logan) and Spider-Man doesn't even have his Spider Sense to fall back on against him.

He refferring to either x-men cross over were bone claws wolverine fights carnage for a few, but he also had his team with him.

Or most likely he refferring to the times wolverine stalemated venom which he has around 3 or 4 times I believe.

In fact wolverine record agaisnt spidermans rouges as better then spidermans own.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I've seen it referenced once, but seeing as he stands up to guys like Carnage and can go between the blades of a chopper while rescuing someone, he should have no need to do so. Crossovers are lousy as they are more about pleasing fanbases and the fights go nowhere really. Just like the recent one, funny, but not forum worthy. It goes up there with the "Neck break" comment.

The neck break comment doesn't have any supporting evidence. Wolverine's speed being on par with the Spider does.

Spiderman stands up to Carnage because Cletus is retarded.... But even then Carnage is able to beat him up pretty easily more often than not.... Wolverine stood up to Carnage too.. I'm not sure how there's a difference between the two... besides Wolverine not needing help a weapon or a plan to do it.

And finally, Wolverine also has ridiculous feats of speed.. his feats are not greatly outstripped by Spidey... which goes hand in hand with the first point in this post.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Spider-Man questioning his speed against him could be considered PIS, or it could be that he's Spider-Man and he undersells himself also. Either/or. Characters have their myths though. No different than MA kryptonite or being as fast as other street/low meta nonsense, or being even slower. It never ends. lol That sneak up reminds me of something from a cereal box, lol.

Logan is gonna kick some serious a$$ in NA# 5

Originally posted by SamZED
More like CIS as Spider-man was really nervous at that point, he also said that in that fight he was moving way slower than normally so there's that.

Originally posted by SamZED
way, Wolverine really is ****in fast. Not Spider-man fast but still FAST. So lets end this before it gets out of hand. There's a 1000 pages long thread already. This is a respect thread. So keep the scans coming guys.

Logan is gonna kick some serious a$$ in NA# 5

He pretty closes to spiderman speed. Any real advantage spiderman would have would be marginal at best.

I agree with the rest however.

Originally posted by jinzin
The neck break comment doesn't have any supporting evidence. Wolverine's speed being on par with the Spider does.

Spiderman stands up to Carnage because Cletus is retarded.... But even then Carnage is able to beat him up pretty easily more often than not.... Wolverine stood up to Carnage too.. I'm not sure how there's a difference between the two... besides Wolverine not needing help a weapon or a plan to do it.

And finally, Wolverine also has ridiculous feats of speed.. his feats are not greatly outstripped by Spidey... which goes hand in hand with the first point in this post.

Carnage stomps both of them.

The neck break comment is really just a comment, no different than Spider-Man's comments about him being 40x faster than someone, we can't pick or choose comments.

Although honestly the real problem here is that speed is so relative in comics. Unless you are the Flash or Quicksilver (or something similar) speed will always look roughly similar. Strength is easier to measure because if you lift something heavier, well you are stronger. Have a character lift something larger and it gets the point across.

Who's to say who dodged a bullet faster, or who moved with shadows faster? Many people do it. Now when I check a thread out, say Wolverine vs DD, the supporters say he is faster, more agile, like it's a solid gap. Spider-Man vs these characters and it's "not much of a difference"? Spider-Man has blitzed super teams before, not villians but teams like in Civil War, Secret Wars. He's no slouch, especially CIS off. Crossover matches will always have the characters "match" each other regardless.

But yea this is off topic. At the end of the day Spider-Man really shouldn't be questioning his speed against Wolverine. Not with the people he faces. It could be CIS, because he always underestimates himself, or PIS. I'd say it is CIS though.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
No he said he felt like he was moving in slow monition, but that simply from adrenaline and actually means quite the opposite. Then there the fact he actually had to switch to relying on pure spidersense to avoid being struck.

He pretty closes to spiderman speed. Any real advantage spiderman would have would be marginal at best.

I agree with the rest however.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Carnage stomps both of them.

The neck break comment is really just a comment, no different than Spider-Man's comments about him being 40x faster than someone, we can't pick or choose comments.

Although honestly the real problem here is that speed is so relative in comics. Unless you are the Flash or Quicksilver (or something similar) speed will always look roughly similar. Strength is easier to measure because if you lift something heavier, well you are stronger. Have a character lift something larger and it gets the point across.

Who's to say who dodged a bullet faster, or who moved with shadows faster? Many people do it. Now when I check a thread out, say Wolverine vs DD, the supporters say he is faster, more agile, like it's a solid gap. Spider-Man vs these characters and it's "not much of a difference"? Spider-Man has blitzed super teams before, not villians but teams like in Civil War, Secret Wars. He's no slouch, especially CIS off. Crossover matches will always have the characters "match" each other regardless.

But yea this is off topic. At the end of the day Spider-Man really shouldn't be questioning his speed against Wolverine. Not with the people he faces. It could be CIS, because he always underestimates himself, or PIS. I'd say it is CIS though.

Carnage the stats list? Yes.
Carnage the comic character has to work for it.

Again, Spiderman has the illusion of speed compounded from all his abilities that are not exclusive to speed alone.
He can "blitz" teams because he has the warning sense and agility to compliment his speed.

The only reason why random feats get brought into the fray is because people don't want to count direct encounters.. And direct encounters have Spidey questioning his speed, referencing Wolverine's speed, and using Wolverine as a basis to memic with speed.

The problem between Wolvering and Spiderman specifically is that the speed is usually an issue of reference.. there's nothing that shows Spiderman has a mass gap in speed against Wolverine on the books.

Wolverine faces the same people Spidey does and usually fairs better sans team battles... so.... 😬

I don't know many people in the civilized world who would say Logan is close to Spider-Man in speed.

Just saying.

Spiderman acknowledges Daken Speed to be as fast as wolverine while trying to hit him.
respect right there.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
I don't know many people in the civilized world who would say Logan is close to Spider-Man in speed.

Just saying.

Yeah but how many people in the "civilized" world have wasted their lives reading hundreds or thousands of publications on the characters in question?

Pleading to the uneducated masses isn't a base for a strong argument IMO.

With all due respect Jin, when it comes to direct encounters in COMICS, someone like Nightwing would be able to "match" Wolverine in speed and even land a couple of punches, and dodge some of his attacks. But who's faster between the two is not a question. Logan outclasses NW in pretyy much every department. What im trying to say is - guys like Daredevil and Cap should be able to counter some of Logan's attacks thanks to their skills, but they'll get skewered eventually anyway because they arent faster than him. While someomne like Spider-man, who is a great fighter but NOT a MA expert 95% of the time is able to succesfully dodge attacks from guys like Logan, Deadpool and even Sabertooth for a long amount of time. And that's concidering he doesnt have Daredevil-level fighting skills. Forewarning or not, there'd be no way he could do that unless he had a speed advantage. Not Flash vs Quicksilver kinda advantage ofcourse. But an advantage nontheless. When it comes to doging only few people match him in Marvel.

Phermones on the above scan.

Originally posted by SamZED
With all due respect Jin, when it comes to direct encounters in COMICS, someone like Nightwing would be able to "match" Wolverine in speed and even land a couple of punches, and dodge some of his attacks. But who's faster between the two is not a question. Logan outclasses NW in pretyy much every department. What im trying to say is - guys like Daredevil and Cap should be able to counter some of Logan's attacks thanks to their skills, but they'll get skewered eventually anyway because they arent faster than him. While someomne like Spider-man, who is a great fighter but NOT a MA expert 95% of the time is able to succesfully dodge attacks from guys like Logan, Deadpool and even Sabertooth for a long amount of time. And that's concidering he doesnt have Daredevil-level fighting skills. Forewarning or not, there'd be no way he could do that unless he had a speed advantage. Not Flash vs Quicksilver kinda advantage ofcourse. But an advantage nontheless. When it comes to doging only few people match him in Marvel.

Anyways. Nightwing, Bats, have all done similar feats. Why is it when they fight Wolverine it's "Wolverine is faster" then with Spider-Man it's "not fast enough to matter."

The reason I brought up Carnage, because Carnage is much faster than Wolverine and Spider-Man has no spider-sense against him, and he has never questioned his speed against him, or Ock, or Venom. It was either CIS or PIS. Carnage on KMC mulches the two without a plot device.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Phermones on the above scan.

Yeah? And so what? Pheromones changed Spiderpussy's opinion about Wolverine's speed?

Good God, if I see another post here about the bugboy, I'm gonna murder someone.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah? And so what? Pheromones changed Spiderpussy's opinion about Wolverine's speed?

Good God, if I see another post here about the bugboy, I'm gonna murder someone.

Your post didn't help btw.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
That he's as fast as his dad? So what? Still is quite obvious the pheromones were messing with him.

Your post didn't help btw.

Of course they were. Daken's vanishing trick = pheromone manipulation. What matters is that Parker knows that Wolverine is fast enough to dodge the impact webbing and dissappear.

Why don't you take it to Spiderman vs. Wolverine thread?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Of course they were. Daken's vanishing trick = pheromone manipulation. What matters is that Parker knows that Wolverine is fast enough to dodge the impact webbing and dissappear.

Why don't you take it to Spiderman vs. Wolverine thread?

Good point. Might have to bump that archaic thread. This is off topic though.

Originally posted by SamZED
With all due respect Jin, when it comes to direct encounters in COMICS, someone like Nightwing would be able to "match" Wolverine in speed and even land a couple of punches, and dodge some of his attacks. But who's faster between the two is not a question. Logan outclasses NW in pretyy much every department. What im trying to say is - guys like Daredevil and Cap should be able to counter some of Logan's attacks thanks to their skills, but they'll get skewered eventually anyway because they arent faster than him.

Originally posted by SamZED
While someomne like Spider-man, who is a great fighter but NOT a MA expert 95% of the time is able to succesfully dodge attacks from guys like Logan, Deadpool and even Sabertooth for a long amount of time.

Originally posted by SamZED
And that's concidering he doesnt have Daredevil-level fighting skills. Forewarning or not, there'd be no way he could do that unless he had a speed advantage. Not Flash vs Quicksilver kinda advantage ofcourse. But an advantage nontheless. When it comes to doging only few people match him in Marvel.

All I'm arguing or have ever argued between Spiderman and Wolverine regarding speed is that the two are extremely close in sheer speed alone.

I agree with the Stilt, let's take it to the right thread. 😛

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I agree with the Stilt, let's take it to the right thread. 😛

Okay..but one more. If Iron Fist can give Spider-man a run for his money - why can't someone who is just as skilled (if not more) than Iron Fist be able to match Spider-man's combat speed and reflexes considering that particular someone (Wolverine) also has low level super human speed and strength on top of that skill?