LUKE vs NIHILUS! re-match(all out)

Wow you couldn't even answer the other half of my argument, pathetic little boy.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
First off, mabye you should try actually refuting Nebaris' point Ivalice (if you can) instead of dismissing them offhand, becuase they actually do blow sizable chunk's out of your argument.

First off you british bastard, his "argument" was the same as yours which i already had the liberty of shredding apart time and again.

Secondly whats the point of even bothering to respond to his posts when i already made it clear why tobin can't be used as a credible source?

Thirdly, who in their right frame of mind would want to get into a debate with this nut case seeing that even if his posts get destroyed, he simply reposts the same thing again but rephrases them?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

It would be inconsequential if not for the worrying fact that thats exactly what stalin did too. And thas not a very favourable comparison for you. plus it shows that you completely lack the spine to be yourself.

You can go on a ramble crap like "Oh fcuk its not very favourable of you blah blah" but it won't change the fact that i am an pleasent and acceptable member of society as compared to you whom's parents regretted not going for an abortion.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Ha!! Thanks for backing me up Arnold! If tobin made the statement before he decided to help the Exile then he would be depressed and unlikely to lie and if he did it afterwards then he wouldn't be lying to his own allies now would he.

How does this quote back you up when your original claim was that he wouldn't lie because he was going to die soon?

You are seriously a f-ucking idiot(and incase you don't know what an idiot is, click this link http://www.thefreedictionary.com/idiot).

So how exactly this backs your point? Again prove up that his statement was true, you have been asked this time and again and you have yet to give a valid answer.

Again how was he "depressed" when he was in a conversation with the exile? How does that prove that he was telling the truth?
Find another reliable source that actually states that nihilus pulled the ship out of the gravity well.

prove up or simply [/b]shut the hell up[/b].

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

You know its funny how you once told me that you yourself used to be 'even stupider' than me. I gues you must have been some form of dog then.

Hell ask gideon(arguebly the most intelligent and most respected member in SWV) to substantiate and back all that up.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Do you even know what hypothetical means? Let me spell it out for you: It doesn't have to have been implied anywhere, I made the statement up, 'turd'.

Once again your "made up analogy" makes absolutely no sense.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

What nebaris said.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

What is in a name?

I simply point your your disability to name the ship correctly and you come out with crap like "what is in a name".

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

My brother did. I only watched the big fights.

Idiot.

You didn't specify weather you played it or not idiot and from that quote it appears that you implied you played the game.

Idiot.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Yeah, becuase Tobin was only 2 when that happened so couldn't possibly have been there. And he could have been safe on another ship.

Can't answer the above 3? Then shut the hell up.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Again, I'm not sad enough to spend 20 hours playing through a game just to prove a point to [b]You. [/B]

But your sad enough to argue like a broken record despite being destroyed by 2 members. Your sad enough to be coming back like a stray hound begging for scraps. Your sad enough to even exist on this world.

You probably know you can't prove up hence the need to give an excuse, hell i don't even see wookiepedia mentioning that he drained other worlds.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

No, you have to prove it seeing as [b]You made the claim the tobin wasn't there.[/B]

And for you to prove that he was telling the truth, you have to prove that he actually saw the feat being performed(or he wouldn't know nihilus pulled the ship would he?) which means you have to prove he was there.

Now, shut up kid and actually find out what the burden of proof means http://www.legal-explanations.com/definitions/burden-of-proof.htm

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Mabye becuase all the ships were already on the surface so he wouldn't have to. Or do you not actuallly understand what the MSG actually did.

You are seriously an idiot beyond belief.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

....... By answering it. Are you O.K. becuase that was preety easy, even for you.

Go find out what relevance is idiot http://www.thefreedictionary.com/relevant

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

No I gave you a paragraph with 2 points in. You only answered one.

Once again you failed to respond to all my posts.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

I Failed.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

No, my [b]Supported theory is the most likely one and is therefore the correct one. Untill you actually come up with something that can challenge it with enough evidence, I'll just be here grinning cheerfully. My theory is sufficiently backed to be the most likely, wether you fume or not.[/B]

Don't even ask me to come up with "enough evidence to challenge it" when you simply couldn't post any solid evidence at all.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus

Nice try, but no.

Oh, and thanks to Nebaris for helping me.

Lol and do thank your boyfriend.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm going to make this very simple and for the final time: it all comes down to whether or not Tobin was present to witness Darth Nihilus retrieve the (fleet? ship?) from the mass shadows. If he was, then the statement can be used, though you'd still need to substantiate how the feat was performed; was Nihilus retrieving the (fleet? ship?) from the mass shadows on sheer power? Was a ritual used? How long did it take? If Tobin wasn't there, then the statement means absolutely nothing. Unlike the embarrassing analogies you tried to use earlier, Tobin isn't an omniscient third party nor is he a member of the historical council of a galactic hyperpower that has spent years on research with unlimited resources and budget.

It's not my job to prove or disprove anything. You want to prove the statement? Fine and dandy. Now prove he was there.

Now exodus, if you are even intelligent enough to actually read, i suggest you respond to THIS first, If you can answer and prove all that with something solid, then i will concede, but if you can't then i simply won't stop.

Tobin was probably not at Malachor to witness Nihilus lifting the Ravager. Why would he be there to witness Nihilus when Nihilus acquired the ship which would later become his flag ship when it is more likely to have happened way before Nihilus and his sith faction allied with Vaklu and Tobin. Furthermore is much more likely that he only "tore" the Ravager from Malachor's gravity. The Ravager looks like it got the crap kicked out of it when the msg was activated. All the other interdictor ships look to be in perfect condition. I highly doubt that Nihilus pulled the interdictor ships out of the gravity well and given them a full "pimp my ride" makeover and leave the Ravager looking like a ghost ship. It is much more likely that he formed his own faction of sith that came with their own fleet of interdictor ships.

Originally posted by Wasteman 3000
Oh please like i am going to respond to that crap, i already refuted and explained [b]why tobin cannot be taken seriously[/b]

No, you're assuming that he wasn't present, and that that somehow makes him an uncredible source, and failing to understand that possessing intimate knowledge of what took place in the first place (Nihilus pulling the Ravager out of the mass shadows of Malachor) automatically affirms his credibility.

and i have already explained why the loading screen does not back him up.

No, you haven't, and for two reasons:

1. You're an idiot.

2. The loading screen does back him up, and no such explanation can be made.

The loading screen outright states that he pulled the Ravager out of the gravity well, which is exactly what Tobin tells the party. Officially backed the fvck up.

Despite you claiming "personally i wouldn't bother with him", you contradict yourself

Which would mean that I wouldn't do as much if I were in Exodus' position, as apparently your arguments with Exodus bring out the most in your wastemanish ways.

Perhaps if you been taught how to speak first hand rather than learnt by picking out miscellaneous statements from people on the internet, you would have a better grasp of this.

and go ahead and actually try to conjure up a rebuttal already refuted earlier by at least 2 members which makes you look even more stupid and idiotic than you already are.

To anyone who has no concept of context and exposition whatsoever, and has been ignoring the fact that my response included new bits of information that haven't ever been brought up on this entire forum let alone addressed, you'd be absolutely correct.

Its pretty amusing that you call me a wasteman seeing that you are obviously the biggest "wasteman"(for obvious reasons) and the biggest loser whom exists on the face of the earth.

You SHOULD get a new policy which is get-a-life.

Right. Has anyone ever told you that the word 'whom' seriously doesn't suit you? Because it's a really bad look for you, as is applying bold font, dashes, and blocked capitals at extremely odd and random intervals, you wanaBEE bodybuilding waste-man.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy

Well I wouldn't go that far. While you and I, and likely many more don't care much for Sidi-Boy's mad ramblings, I'm sure some might. Saying that "nobody cares" was uncharacteristically quite rude of you.

Originally posted by true jedi
what does it truly matter if nihilus did do that? or that he can drain an individual. What are the chances he could actually pull that off on luke? i really really doubt it. Chances are, he would find himself unable to move, and then realize it was cause luke OWNS him. Moving ships really means nothing: size matters not. The ships had no ability to KEEP themselves from being moved. Nihilus tries a similar move in a crushing manner against luke.... and luke blocks it.... on the to next part of the fight. what does it matter if nihilus can move a ship?

The "size matters not" kind of reasoning when it comes to telekinesis truly baffles the mind. Given that we have displays of both telekinetic Force Users lacking the ability to lift objects of certain masses (such as Mace Windu in Shatterpoint, when he couldn't lift the steam crawler), as well as telekinetic Force Users being forced to apply more effort into lifting heavier objects (such as Luke casually lifting remote droids in the Dark Nest series, and then struggling with manipulating a Dovin Basel in Vector Prime) would indicate that size mass really does matter.

And so what if the ships couldn't "KEEP themselves from being moved," it was an entire fleet, including the Ravager, and Nihilus was capable of pulling it right out of a gravity well. It's an extremely impressive expression of power, irregardless of the fact that it wasn't applied on a Force User. That's not to say that it puts him above Luke in ability, but it's not Nihilus' greatest display of power, whereas his destruction of the life of Katarr (while in a weak, hungry state no less) puts his power on a level that Luke's can't be said to reach.

Firstly, I'd like to make it clear that I didn't even come close to laying down a stance, I was only pointing out the fact that your comparison was extremely one-sided, so this response was quite unnecesary.

Originally posted by Sidi-Boy
That's great, Nebaris, only that Luke possesses techniques that will make Nihilus' arsenal of weapons completely useless. Nihilus was stated to be capable of perceiving only locations that possess a massive amount of life force, and is, apparently, incapable of 'seeing' individual, normal people (otherwise, that Mandalorians blowing up his ship would be toast),

This also severely baffles the mind. Gideon used this argument the last time, and it's stupid; even if you wanted to interpret Tobin's words in such a way, the fact that Nihilus was capable of sensing and using the Force against: a) the Non-Force Sensitive Canderous, b) the Wound in the Force (meaning, low presence in the Force) Exile, and c) Visas Marr (Force User, but a single individual nonetheless) would quite clearly tell you that he's nowhere near incapable of applying his senses on such a low scale if the situation would demand it (which this one most certainly would). So no, he most certainly won't be incapable of sensing a single individual in such a scenario as this, and the fact that his perceptions were stated to have grown with his power and that he was capable of "seeing" the Force on a cosmic scale would indicate that his Force perceptions were extremely potent; all he needs to do is focus those perceptions on a low scale and it would require someone more powerful than he is to cloak themselves from him.

and therefore, all Luke needs is the Fallanassi looping technique in order to avoid detection by Nihilus.

Firstly, if Nihilus really couldn't sense individual beings with the Force (which is exactly what you stated to be the case a few lines up), the Fallanassi "looping" technique wouldn't be at all necessary.

Secondly, stop relying on second hand knowledge; the Fallanassi technique is simply a powerful stealth ability, it's not a "looping" technique, and it doesn't completely rid your body of the Force like some [liars] have claimed.

Thirdly, Luke hasn't ever displayed the ability to shield his presence from someone as powerful as Nihilus, and for it to be safely assumed, an argument would need to be made for Luke's superiority over him in Force ability. And there isn't one.

And I don't think I'll find an argument when I say that Nihilus is waaaay below Luke in terms of saber abilities, correct?

In technique? Probably not, though Luke's hardly the man in that regard anyway. His training's been mostly rushed, and I don't recall him ever being noted as a lightsaber prodigy or an amazingly talented practitioner of the weapon either (again, talking purely technique here). He hasn't displayed amazing technical ability, though his level of experience and the scope of his training would almost definitely put him far above Nihilus in the category, who we can't really say anything good about in that respect.

To use one of your most commonly used expressions, there's certainly a chance that Nihilus' uber force drain was 'ritualistic in nature'.

As I was attempting to say (Kadesh would have a field day with that one) in our last debate, the keyboard function you'd be looking for there would be [Gideon][*Gideon] (Replace * with /, it'll work just fine).

The details of his actual drain are unknown,

Not completely. We know that he was weak, and that his hunger was consuming him, and that he would have likely felt the need to take drastic action. We know that his mindset would likely be beyond an organised procedure such as a ritual. We have Visas, who was most definitely being used as exposition in the Unseen, Unheard comic, and someone who, as a Miralakula, was naturally gifted at sensing life and death through the Force, describe the entire process as happening in what can be interpreted as an instant (with the upper limit being "quick"😉, as evident by describing the process as "when my Lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died." The details are hardly unknown, and the event was used by the game creators to set Nihilus up to be as powerful the Force of Nature that he clearly was; that he relied on a prolonged ritual or something would clearly not be true to his character and the game creators' ultimate vision.

so- while highly impressive- it could both be that it was done instanteously or done utilizing a prolonged ritual, which seems likely considering he didn't use his 'uber drain' on Telos.

This has already been addressed. He had been tricked into thinking that there was an academy full of Jedi for him to drain. Upon realising that that wasn't the case, his motives likely would have changed; I know it was believed that Nihilus might not have felt the presence of the Exile's party on his ship, but for all we know, he quite easily could have and was waiting for their arrival so he could feed on the Force presence of the only Force sensitives around: his former apprentice and Jedi counterpart. The point is, we don't know his ultimate motive at that point in time, and the incident can't be used to establish that it would take a large amount of time for him to use the Force on such a scale. It's worthless to bring up, as no point can be made out of it.

The fact remains that everything points to the destruction of Katarr being done by Nihilus under his regular level of ability (by that I mean unaided; it was his regular level of ability in a weakened stated), in a pretty quick, effortless (again, evident by the way Visas describes the event) way, and given how high the probability is that all of the above was the case, and considering that these versus threads are completely speculative, Occam's Razor would dictate all of the above, and put Nihilus at a level of ability that Luke can't be said to reach.

And even so, Nihilus' TK techniques have not only been more than equally matched by Luke's more controlled, refined techniques, his drain is completely and utterly useless, especially seeing as Luke both possesses sufficiently powerful defenses and can possibly speed-blitz Nihilus.

You're again comparing an unknown to a known. Just because we haven't seen Nihilus display as much speed as Luke or reaction timing to keep up with such speed, it doesn't mean that he doesn't possess it; again, Nihilus has ultimately displayed a level of Force ability that would put him beyond Luke in the category, and given that ability with the Force is essentially what makes Luke as fast as he is, the possibility is virtually nonexistent, and stupid to point out.

Originally posted by Taven
Thirdly, Luke hasn't ever displayed the ability to shield his presence from someone as powerful as Nihilus, and for it to be safely assumed, an argument would need to be made for Luke's superiority over him in Force ability. And there isn't one.

Irrelevant. Palpatine managed to shield his presence for decades from the collective eye of the Jedi Order, despite the fact that he occupied the same planet that they did, met with the most powerful of them regularly, and ascending to the most powerful political office in the galaxy and neither Yoda nor Anakin were any the wiser; Yoda's power was seemingly equal to Palpatine's own and Anakin's strength in the Force dwarfed the Emperor's.

Reconcile that with your theory.

The details are hardly unknown, and the event was used by the game creators to set Nihilus up to be as powerful the Force of Nature that he clearly was; that he relied on a prolonged ritual or something would clearly not be true to his character and the game creators' ultimate vision.

LOL. This doesn't cut it. You're not in a position to interpret the purpose of a videogame character to the rest of us and use it as a means to dictate his level of power. Otherwise, I can just say that, since Luke was intended to be the ultimate hero of the ultimate saga (a timeframe more important than KotOR's), he is clearly the most powerful being in the whole of the mythos. One can also attribute similar levels of power to Palpatine, Yoda, and Anakin. And I still win.

Originally posted by Taven

Right. Has anyone ever told you that the word 'whom' seriously doesn't suit you? Because it's a really bad look for you, as is applying bold font, dashes, and blocked capitals at extremely odd and random intervals, you wanaBEE bodyb[b]uilding waste-man.

Which would mean that I wouldn't do as much if I were in Exodus' position, as apparently your arguments with Exodus bring out the most in your wastemanish ways.

[/B]

I believe i already made it clear why the loading screen does not back him up, your inability to read only makes you look more idiotic than you currently are.

Oh and which would mean you wouldn't do as much in exodus position? Have you not realised you are doing far more than him? Or just simply too stupid to realise it?

Nice try calling me a "wannabe" when infact countless people i know and don't know tell me by "body is getting much more muscular".

Go ahead and respond, i have something better do because i-have-a-life.

Originally posted by Gideon
Irrelevant. Palpatine managed to shield his presence for decades from the collective eye of the Jedi Order, despite the fact that he occupied the same planet that they did, met with the most powerful of them regularly, and ascending to the most powerful political office in the galaxy and neither Yoda nor Anakin were any the wiser; Yoda's power was seemingly equal to Palpatine's own and Anakin's strength in the Force dwarfed the Emperor's.

Reconcile that with your theory.

No, it's not irrelevant. Sidi-Boy made the claim that Luke will be able to shield his entire presence from Nihilus, so the BoP falls on him to prove it. He would need to either establish that Luke is ultimately the greater Force User of the two, or that he's ever been able to shield his presence from beings with as great a level of power, or more specifically, perception as Nihilus has, and a case can't be made for either.

As for your ridiculous false comparison, Sidious was only shielding his Force sensitivity from the Jedi, not his presence, and that was something that:

a) The Jedi can't be said to have even been actively trying to sense, and

b) Doesn't even imply the absolute negation of the Jedi's abilities.

In a versus scenario, however, if Luke were to vanish in front of Nihilus' eyes, Nihilus would be actively attempting to use the Force to locate him, and if Niilus was somehow incapable of doing so, it would be because Luke was capable of completely negating Nihilus' abilities (that his ability to shield himself > Nihilus' ability to see things via the force - the two polar opposites of a fundamental application of the Force), which you could only make a case for if Luke was the ultimately greater Force User, or if he had ever displayed the ability to shield his presence from a being like Nihilus.

LOL. This doesn't cut it. You're not in a position to interpret the purpose of a videogame character to the rest of us and use it as a means to dictate his level of power.

I think you'll find I am.

"Not completely. We know that he was weak, and that his hunger was consuming him, and that he would have likely felt the need to take drastic action. We know that his mindset would likely be beyond an organised procedure such as a ritual. We have Visas, who was most definitely being used as exposition in the Unseen, Unheard comic, and someone who, as a Miralakula, was naturally gifted at sensing life and death through the Force, describe the entire process as happening in what can be interpreted as an instant (with the upper limit being "quick"😉, as evident by describing the process as "when my Lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died." The details are hardly unknown, and the event was used by the game creators to set Nihilus up to be as powerful the Force of Nature that he clearly was; that he relied on a prolonged ritual or something would clearly not be true to his character and the game creators' ultimate vision."

"The fact remains that everything points to the destruction of Katarr being done by Nihilus under his regular level of ability (by that I mean unaided; it was his regular level of ability in a weakened stated), in a pretty quick, effortless (again, evident by the way Visas describes the event) way, and given how high the probability is that all of the above was the case, and considering that these versus threads are completely speculative, Occam's Razor would dictate all of the above, and put Nihilus at a level of ability that Luke can't be said to reach."

Given the speculatory nature of these threads, Occam's Razor is perfectly admissible in dictating the stance that should be taken, and Occam's Razor would dictate that all that Nihilus displayed was completely unaided. You questioning whether Nihilus used a ritual or not would be like me questioning whether or not Palpatine had been gathering Force energies for hours before his fights with Yoda and Mace in RotS, or Luke in DE, or before he turned the Prophets of the Darkside to ash, or decimated the hundreds of stormtroopers in the Empire comics, or pretty much any combat related action that he ever took [where the initial circumstances are left unelaborated on], and that he was ten times more powerful during each and every one of the events. You can't definitively disprove those possibilities, but that doesn't mean we take them into account, and that's because we rely on Occam's Razor to rule out the possibility of something that all evidence suggests didn't happen, purely for the sake of the argument.

Otherwise, I can just say that, since Luke was intended to be the ultimate hero of the ultimate saga (a timeframe more important than KotOR's), he is clearly the most powerful being in the whole of the mythos. One can also attribute similar levels of power to Palpatine, Yoda, and Anakin. And I still win.

Except for the fact that a hero isn't defined by his level of power, and that the importance of the saga doesn't dictate how powerful the hero needs to be. This was a ridiculous false comparison.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
Ah yes "wanabee" bodybuilding wasteman, its amusing as this comes from the absolute biggest joke on the forums.

I believe i already made it clear why the loading screen does not back him up, your inability to read only makes you look more idiotic than you currently are.

Oh and which would mean you wouldn't do as much in exodus position? Have you not realised you are doing far more than him? Or just simply too stupid to realise it?

Nice try calling me a "wannabe" when infact countless people i know and don't know tell me by "body is getting much more muscular".

Go ahead and respond, i have something better do because i-have-a-life.

Good Lord you still can't keep your fingers off of the copy and paste buttons? Even in the very thread you were exposed as the Star Wars Versus Forum's own personal photocopying machine that you are, to the person that exposed you? You make Darth Sexy look like his own person. And please, nobody wants to here about your flabby ass biceps, chubby cheeks, not even Captain Rex is getting excited.

Wasteman 3000 > ignore, now.

Originally posted by Taven
Good Lord you still can't keep your fingers off of the copy and paste buttons? Even in the very thread you were exposed as the Star Wars Versus Forum's own personal photocopying machine that you are, to the person that exposed you? You make Darth Sexy look like his own person. And please, nobody wants to here about your flabby ass biceps, chubby cheeks, not even Captain Rex is getting excited.

[b]Wasteman 3000 > ignore, now. [/B]

Get your eyes checked before making absurd claims.

Funny how you claim nobody is interested about my "flabby ass biceps and chubby cheeks" when infact it at the least(not that i have "flabs" or am "flabby"😉 far better looking than that scrawny body of yours, hell people can't tell weather your a living skeleton or a human being.

Once again get-a-life and stfu. Welcome to my ignored list.

"Schwarzenegger

This person is on your Ignore List on account of being a wasteman, sheep, and bragging about his giant bingo wings. To view this post click [here]"

Originally posted by Taven
"[b]Schwarzenegger

This person is on your Ignore List on account of being a wasteman, sheep, and bragging about his giant bingo wings. To view this post click [here]" [/B]

Originally posted by Tangible God
How are you not blocked yet?

more like - "how was he born in the first place"?

Well you see when a mummy and a daddy love each other Verrrry much they... (lewd explanation).... and thats how babies are made. At least untill the year 2020.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Well you see when a mummy and a daddy love each other Verrrry much they... (lewd explanation).... and thats how babies are made. At least untill the year 2020.

Birth control would have been his parents best friend but like i said, it is unknown why or how he was born in the first place. He could even be an aborted fetus who survived and was put into a test tube thus growing into the idiot he has become.

Now exodus, this must be true because i say so as you implied "tobin says so, so it must be real"

Or his birth could have been unplanned for(rape, premarital sex, lab experiment, alien hybrid).

Actually, two of those probably would have been planned for.

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Actually, two of those probably would have been planned for.