Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Silver Surfer. Neither Hal Jordan, nor Sinestro have done anything to put themselves on Silver Surfer's level.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Time to clean house again... *sigh*1) Hal recreated a portion of the Corps when he was amped by the Sentinels of Magic, including Phantom Stranger. You need to read 'Day of Judgment' again.
2) Creating plasma constructs is completely different from creating an army of fully functioning Silver Surfers. As to whether these plasma constructs would overpower the Silver Surfer, show me the scans. Until then, it's speculation and that isn't even Hal Jordan.
3) Kyle by virtue of his unique ring was subconsciously tapping into the Ion power during the 'Circle Of Fire' storyline. Try again.
4) John Stewart never temporarily recreated a solar system. He managed to make big amorphous balls of plasma energy. Interpreting that as an actual temporary reconstruction is reaching and speculative nonsense. Recreating the solar system obviously exceeded the ring's capabilities.
5) When did Kyle clone himself and what were the circumstances?
6) Kilowog, who specializes in genetics, induces accelerated mutation on organisms during the 'Rann-Thanagar War.' It's circumstantial evidence that he could actually rewrite DNA. It's speculative nonsense that he or Hal could rewrite their DNAs into becoming Daxamites. I could see GLs causing accelerated mutation onto themselves. I shall not speculate as to what that would actually lead to.
Are we done here? If so, like I said before...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0OneDumbG0 makes an excellent case here and no one has successfully countered his points. Based on this, I'd say Current Surfer takes this fight, though not in a stomp.
Lanterns have exploitable weaknesses. When they exert tremendous willpower into an attack or defense, their concomitant ability to defend or attack is compromised, i.e. when Hal was trying to counter Despero's mental attacks in 'Crisis of Conscience,' he left himself open to a simple punch from Batman. Additionally, when one of their significantly powered constructs is destroyed, they suffer backlash. The more willpower poured into the construct, the more backlash that occurs when it is destroyed, i.e. when Superman shattered John Stewart's construct in 'Sacrifice,' Stewart was knocked unconscious. Finally, their rings have limited charges and limitations on their capabilities. They are not in Surfer's league. But I'm willing to change my opinion if you have proof.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0QAFT. 😛
Lanterns have exploitable weaknesses. When they exert tremendous willpower into an attack or defense, their concomitant ability to defend or attack is compromised, i.e. when Hal was trying to counter Despero's mental attacks in 'Crisis of Conscience,' he left himself open to a simple punch from Batman. Additionally, when one of their significantly powered constructs is destroyed, they suffer backlash. The more willpower poured into the construct, the more backlash that occurs when it is destroyed, i.e. when Superman shattered John Stewart's construct in 'Sacrifice,' Stewart was knocked unconscious. Finally, their rings have limited charges and limitations on their capabilities. They are not in Surfer's league. But I'm willing to change my opinion if you have proof.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
durrellyWhat pisses me off about KMC, is a seeming inability to do independent research. IE: Look up the scans yourself. 😬 We have a HUGE respect forum.
ODG's put up a closely argued and tight case. my own suggestion of power drainage, though off hand, was based more upon Surfer's battle m/o with other heralds and characters with energy manipulation abilities.
I distinctly recall him absorbing souls ("blackbodies"😉 in his battle with the UniLord (who was an amped up Watcher gone rogue, iirc), I remember seeing scans of him absorbing a portion of DeathUrge too (though to what ends, I cannot say). these suggest to me that the assumption can be made that Surfer can drain/manipulate/absorb an energy not natural to him (mystical/magical) without much trouble and from entities on or beyond his level of power.
Surfer's Cosmic Awareness and mental processing speeds should prove key to any actual battle between him and the duo here, imo.
as for arguments about GL constructing foes for Surfer to might, I should remind people that Surfer has also cloned exact duplicates of himself, imbued not with a portion but with exactly the same level of power as himself.
Surfer can clearly buy himself the time he needs to formulate such a stratagem, as all he really has to do is shift out of the dimension of attack, go intangible, move into microverse or cast an illusion of an infinite army of Surfers circling the duo... by the time they get through that, Surfer should be ready to attack with his clones.
Originally posted by batdude123
What is this shit? barkerHal Jordan would give Surfer trouble on his own. Add in Sinestro, and this becomes a rape stomp.
Batdude called this one back on the first page.
Frankly Goober, I could play his game. I could show scans, etc. But I'm not going to.
It's a waste of time. Anyone who can't see this is obviously not a fight where Surfer takes a majority, is too biased to see why.
It's pathetically and stupidly obvious that Surfer cannot defeat two of the greatest GLs of all time working on the same side.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Batdude called this one back on the first page.Frankly Goober, I could play his game. I could show scans, etc. But I'm not going to.
It's a waste of time. Anyone who can't see this is obviously not a fight where Surfer takes a majority, is too biased to see why.
It's pathetically and stupidly obvious that Surfer cannot defeat two of the greatest GLs of all time working on the same side.
Besides who cares if the feats you provide convince the person you're debating? I mean that kind of thing almost never happens. Evidence isn't really meant to convince your opponent(who's normally seen the evidence in question before anyway), it's to convince the onlooker's who are watching the debate impartially. And at this point ODG has not only provided evidence of Surfers power with scans, he's also addressed/debunked all the feats of GL's that people have put forth so how does he qualify as biased in your mind?
You don't have to agree with ODG's opinion, but claiming that he's biased because you don't want to take the time to justify your own opinion(which is something ODG has already done) seems to be more than a little unreasonable to me.
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Batdude called this one back on the first page.Frankly Goober, I could play his game. I could show scans, etc. But I'm not going to.
It's a waste of time. Anyone who can't see this is obviously not a fight where Surfer takes a majority, is too biased to see why.
It's pathetically and stupidly obvious that Surfer cannot defeat two of the greatest GLs of all time working on the same side.
*sniff sniff*
Reeks of bullshit.
Originally posted by janus77
Surfer can clearly buy himself the time he needs to formulate such a stratagem, as all he really has to do is shift out of the dimension of attack, go intangible, move into microverse or cast an illusion of an infinite army of Surfers circling the duo... by the time they get through that, Surfer should be ready to attack with his clones.
I'm going to have to see him do those things in a fight more than once to give them an credence as a relevant tactic.
As for GL skill at absorbing energy Hal has absorbed the battery before.
As for making massive constructs:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/e3a97a34.jpg
If they have to GLs can mess with time too. The truth is they almost certainly won't but neither will Surfer.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/c1772a9d.jpg
GLs don't have to concentrate very much. Here Hal makes a half dozen scanning probes while facing down AlanScott
Effortlessly makes a number of constructs:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/GLsearchprobes3GL16.jpg
Huge construct:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/LEGION-46-09.jpg
Surfer doesn't have a speed advantage. Hal catches Zoom (the one that made Wally look slow) in the middle of a blitz:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/HaltagsZoom.jpg
Autoshields raise instantly:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glautoshields.jpg
Automatic defensive systems extend well beyond that:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glpoisonresistance.jpg
In freefall while under attack a GL makes a large construct and then shrinks it:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glmineclearingandplanetfixing.jpg
Cosmic Awareness is nice but as long as a GL knows there's something to look for the ring can find it and pinpoint the target to an obscene degree. Even if the request it somewhat vague. Here Hal finds subatomic aliens.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glsenses.jpg
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm going to have to see him do those things in a fight more than once to give them an credence as a relevant tactic.As for GL skill at absorbing energy Hal has absorbed the battery before.
As for making massive constructs:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/e3a97a34.jpgIf they have to GLs can mess with time too. The truth is they almost certainly won't but neither will Surfer.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/c1772a9d.jpgGLs don't have to concentrate very much. Here Hal makes a half dozen scanning probes while facing down AlanScott
Effortlessly makes a number of constructs:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/GLsearchprobes3GL16.jpgHuge construct:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/LEGION-46-09.jpgSurfer doesn't have a speed advantage. Hal catches Zoom (the one that made Wally look slow) in the middle of a blitz:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/HaltagsZoom.jpgAutoshields raise instantly:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glautoshields.jpgAutomatic defensive systems extend well beyond that:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glpoisonresistance.jpgIn freefall while under attack a GL makes a large construct and then shrinks it:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glmineclearingandplanetfixing.jpgCosmic Awareness is nice but as long as a GL knows there's something to look for the ring can find it and pinpoint the target to an obscene degree. Even if the request it somewhat vague. Here Hal finds subatomic aliens.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glsenses.jpg
sorry but nothin u showed was impressive compared to what the surfer does
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm going to have to see him do those things in a fight more than once to give them an credence as a relevant tactic.As for GL skill at absorbing energy Hal has absorbed the battery before.
As for making massive constructs:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/e3a97a34.jpgIf they have to GLs can mess with time too. The truth is they almost certainly won't but neither will Surfer.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/c1772a9d.jpgGLs don't have to concentrate very much. Here Hal makes a half dozen scanning probes while facing down AlanScott
Effortlessly makes a number of constructs:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/GLsearchprobes3GL16.jpgHuge construct:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/LEGION-46-09.jpgSurfer doesn't have a speed advantage. Hal catches Zoom (the one that made Wally look slow) in the middle of a blitz:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/HaltagsZoom.jpgAutoshields raise instantly:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glautoshields.jpgAutomatic defensive systems extend well beyond that:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glpoisonresistance.jpgIn freefall while under attack a GL makes a large construct and then shrinks it:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glmineclearingandplanetfixing.jpgCosmic Awareness is nice but as long as a GL knows there's something to look for the ring can find it and pinpoint the target to an obscene degree. Even if the request it somewhat vague. Here Hal finds subatomic aliens.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glsenses.jpg
IF the surfer has shown that such moves are within his capacity, then i think it is a viable tactic. Surfer has gone intangible numerous times and has also casted high level illusions numerous times.( He fooled galactus) He has also entered the microverse more than once. Therefore he has shown that he has all thementioned capabilities. With that being said i believe the full capacity rule should mean that he can use any tactics that combine his his abilities shown on panel.
Also didint wonderwoman also tag zoom? Not trying to take away from zoom speed but im just calling into question the fact that a being who can use one hand to block of two flashes could also get tagged by wondy and GL. It makes me wonder if the speds he fought each of them at were comparable.
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosIs that the time Zoom was owning everyone, and then Hal came out of nowhere from behind to grab Zoom, and then Zoom broke out?
Surfer doesn't have a speed advantage. Hal catches Zoom (the one that made Wally look slow) in the middle of a blitz:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/HaltagsZoom.jpg
A few more things for people to think about
Hal uses the ring to perform rather advanced brain surgery. Keep in mind he is not a trained brain surgeon:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halmental2.jpg
Even short on power GLs can be pretty damned fast:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halspeed2.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halspeed3.jpg
Makes solid matter with the ring.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halmattercreation.jpg
This GL is Raker. He performs this feat with a total of 1 second worth of power in his ring:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glteleportation.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glteleportation1.jpg
John (a GL generally accepted as being lower level than Hal) is faster on the draw than Wally:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/johnspeed.jpg
As for just how powerful Hal is:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal2.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal3.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal4.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal5.jpg
That is AlexanderNero with the power of Ion he's simply disguised as Kyle which meant that Hal was holding back for that fight. In this battle Surfer would be fighting two people on Hal's level.
