Hal Jordan and Sinestro vs Silver Surfer

Started by janus7716 pages

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm going to have to see him do those things in a fight more than once to give them an credence as a relevant tactic.

As for GL skill at absorbing energy Hal has absorbed the battery before.

As for making massive constructs:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/e3a97a34.jpg

If they have to GLs can mess with time too. The truth is they almost certainly won't but neither will Surfer.
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/c1772a9d.jpg

GLs don't have to concentrate very much. Here Hal makes a half dozen scanning probes while facing down AlanScott

Effortlessly makes a number of constructs:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/GLsearchprobes3GL16.jpg

Huge construct:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/DC_CaptainComet/LEGION-46-09.jpg

Surfer doesn't have a speed advantage. Hal catches Zoom (the one that made Wally look slow) in the middle of a blitz:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/HaltagsZoom.jpg

Autoshields raise instantly:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glautoshields.jpg

Automatic defensive systems extend well beyond that:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glpoisonresistance.jpg

In freefall while under attack a GL makes a large construct and then shrinks it:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glmineclearingandplanetfixing.jpg

Cosmic Awareness is nice but as long as a GL knows there's something to look for the ring can find it and pinpoint the target to an obscene degree. Even if the request it somewhat vague. Here Hal finds subatomic aliens.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glsenses.jpg


you missed my point with the tactics I listed above. they're to buy Surfer time to clone himself (which is just to demonstrate that he can do that, whereas the GLs cannot), not to win the fight in and of themselves.

as for what your scans demonstrate and what you say, there are quite a few disparities I have to say.

1. the "automatic defensive system" didn't actually automatically defend in the scan you show. the GL's ring was counter-acting the poison darts fired by the dominators. it says so in the scan.

2. that right there takes out the vaunted "auto shields"

3. detecting sub-atomic creatures is nothing that Surfer has not trumped. he's traced energy signatures across light years. and again, it took the ring time to find the source of the frequencies - time that Surfer would not permit a GL - oh and again, they actually managed to hit the GL because his ring was too slow in detecting the threat, yet again countering the efficacy of the "auto shields". furthermore, the ring detected their frequencies rather than the targets first. Surfer can disguise such things pretty easily.

4. I said nothing about "massive constructs", I was addressing the hyperbole about GLs creating Surfers to fight against Surfer with.

5. most of the above examples speak to the fact that GLs cannot process information at anything like the speeds Surfer does, therefore they cannot possibly have parity (or anything approaching) with Surfer in general reaction time and speed.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
IF the surfer has shown that such moves are within his capacity, then i think it is a viable tactic. Surfer has gone intangible numerous times and has also casted high level illusions numerous times.( He fooled galactus) He has also entered the microverse more than once. Therefore he has shown that he has all thementioned capabilities. With that being said i believe the full capacity rule should mean that he can use any tactics that combine his his abilities shown on panel.

Then I leave you open to a torrent of insane feats that GLs have performed a handful of times.

I've spent some time providing evidence for a counter argument if anyone would like to go into more detail. For those who still think Surfer will win it's not just Hal in this fight it's Hal with the ability to kill and with help from Sinestro, a Lantern always shown as his equal.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A few more things for people to think about

Hal uses the ring to perform rather advanced brain surgery. Keep in mind he is not a trained brain surgeon:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halmental2.jpg

Even short on power GLs can be pretty damned fast:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halspeed2.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halspeed3.jpg

Makes solid matter with the ring.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/halmattercreation.jpg

This GL is Raker. He performs this feat with a total of 1 second worth of power in his ring:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glteleportation.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glteleportation1.jpg

John (a GL generally accepted as being lower level than Hal) is faster on the draw than Wally:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/johnspeed.jpg

As for just how powerful Hal is:
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal1.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal2.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal3.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal4.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/ionvshal5.jpg

That is AlexanderNero with the power of Ion he's simply disguised as Kyle which meant that Hal was holding back for that fight. In this battle Surfer would be fighting two people on Hal's level.


you do know what Surfer can do, right?

these scans aren't at all impressive.

Surfer doesn't know brain surgery, yet he can alter people's minds, brains, biology, matter ... and he has no need to fully concentrate to do so either, it just happens if he wants it to.

Surfer turned an inorganic intelligence into an organic form of life - Quasimodo.

Surfer's evolved a planet - simply beyond anything you can show for a GL.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Is that the time Zoom was owning everyone, and then Hal came out of nowhere from behind to grab Zoom, and then Zoom broke out?
😛

Well yes. But considering no one else manage to do anything to Zoom in that scene it's a very good feat.

hal is impressive but he just wouldnt have much affect on the surfer...surfer trumps everything that GL does

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then I leave you open to a torrent of insane feats that GLs have performed a handful of times.

I've spent some time providing evidence for a counter argument if anyone would like to go into more detail. For those who still think Surfer will win it's not just Hal in this fight it's Hal with the ability to kill and with help from Sinestro, a Lantern always shown as his equal.

NO u dont understand. Surfer has shown numerous times the ability to the mentioned feats. So the question therefore is NOt whether him doing it is viable because he has shown more than a few times to be capable of such. What then should come under the rule of full capacity is him combining these abilities as a tactic in the fight. Just like superman combining ice breatthe then heat vision and finally his strength in order to defeat an opponent

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well yes. But considering no one else manage to do anything to Zoom in that scene it's a very good feat.
Because Zoom didn't even know he was there...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then I leave you open to a torrent of insane feats that GLs have performed a handful of times.

I've spent some time providing evidence for a counter argument if anyone would like to go into more detail. For those who still think Surfer will win it's not just Hal in this fight it's Hal with the ability to kill and with help from Sinestro, a Lantern always shown as his equal.

i'd say sinestro is actually a bit superior, in terms of technique, but not by much... hal's willpower evens it out, imo...

i'm still siding with what batdude said... while i think surfer would more often than not take a majority from either man, both of them, imo, is more than even surfer can handle...

I remember Hal Jordan in an alternate timeline Giving Batman Superman level Strength, speed, and durability. How come Sinestro and Hal Can't each do that to the other all while creating massive armies of constructs? And how does Surfer drain a GL when he has to actually deplete the rings. It's not like one second and the ring is depleted. It would take effort, and a fight of will power from whom ever he would be draining. Leaving him open to the other. Seriously, the surfer can't possibly win against the two of the Best GL's in the history of GL's.

Originally posted by fangirl101
I remember Hal Jordan in an alternate timeline Giving Batman Superman level Strength, speed, and durability. How come Sinestro and Hal Can't each do that to the other

Because it happened in an alternate timeline?

Originally posted by janus77

Surfer's evolved a planet - simply beyond anything you can show for a GL.

Actually they have done the same thing, on two occasions that come to mind off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Soljer
Because it happened in an alternate timeline?

Actually In Wonder Woman, A GL effectively Gave himself enough durbabilty and strength to match and exceed wonder woman in physical combat. It was only when she started using her head and that lasso to break his constructs did things start swinging her way.

Originally posted by Raoul
i'd say sinestro is actually a bit superior, in terms of technique, but not by much... hal's willpower evens it out, imo...

i'm still siding with what batdude said... while i think surfer would more often than not take a majority from either man, both of them, imo, is more than even surfer can handle...

YouTube video

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
He's not transcendant. He's just the peak of herald-level characters. So let me remind you what puts Surfer over the top current Lanterns, including Hal and Sinestro. Most of the credit for the scans go to Darthgoober and other contributors to the Silver Surfer respect thread. First off, Lanterns don't have Cosmic Awareness. Neither do Lanterns don't travel through time anymore post-Crisis. Silver Surfer does.

IMO Cosmic awareness is overrated in battles. It seems like it's suited for cosmic imbalance awareness than actual battle. The ring is a better tool for that. Not only is the computer in the ring able to do the same exact thing, it's also a virtual encyclopedia of information accessible by mere thought. It automatically gives the GL's information needed and anything else can be asked *or thought of* and the answer is provided.

IMO the ring is a superior choice in this category.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't casually destroy planets or create black holes. Silver Surfer does:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1787/annihilationsilversurfemi9.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4227/annihilationsilversurfegj7.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7697/annihilationsilversurfekt9.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9429/annihilationsilversurfeiv2.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5159/annihilationsilversurfeay7.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5960/annihilationsilversurfekp8.jpg

Rings are classified as planet destroying weapons. You are right that it's not casual but then again GL's are used to protect. *IE* You won't really see that type of thing because it's not what their function is. Kind of like baking a cake... I'm sure it can be done, but you won't see it on panel much if at all.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't fight herald-level foes inside black holes while healing and providing escape from the event horizon to a transmuted Alicia Masters. Silver Surfer does:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=8840317
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9323/galactusthedevourer217yj3.jpg

Interestingly enough, SS states here that the board enhances his hyperspace abilities and that he would be trapped without it.

It wouldn't be hard to surround SS in a bubble that prevents him from accessing cosmic energy ala Dr. Strange.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't get cut up into pieces, retain consciousness and the ability to maneuver and fight and then heal themselves. Silver Surfer does:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5174/silversurfer198902418te5.jpg
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4053/silversurfer198902422uk4.jpg

I've seen an old scan of Hal and the league being in a similar predicament and coming out of it.

This feat is more of a willpower feat. Surfer isn't really going to survive being cut into pieces and we all know it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't usurp and harness the power of billions of souls from a foe into their being. Silver Surfer does:
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/1842/silversurfer199612021sh1.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2833/silversurfer199612022ft5.jpg

He got help from a blackbody upgrade which we don't even know if he kept...
This is like using Kyle's feats before he knew about ION power.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't have nanosecond reaction times, at least, neither Hal nor Sinestro have demonstrated them. Silver Surfer does:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9544/silversurfer198700130rs9.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4341/silversurfer198700131kw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

The 1st feat is hotly disputed, and the second one, while good is nothing tons of characters can't do. A GL would have no problem using a high speed ambush and rescue if needed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
don't evolve an entire planet's inhabitants and it's ecosystems billions of years in moments. Silver Surfer does:
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5927/silversurferv3104p16li9.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4633/silversurferv3104p20cv7.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/1791/silversurferv3104p21do2.jpg

Surfer only started the process. He had no control over it (as in the scans) and then his own power couldn't stop it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
can't really shield anything or transmute anything without extending an aura around them. They certainly don't shield drive-techs of an entire planet's escape vessels from the electromagnetic interference of Galactus in a mere blink of an eye. Silver Surfer does:
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0016og0.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0017av4.jpg
http://img65.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan0018lv5.jpg

GL's have raised shields to block Supernova level explosions pretty fast.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
to tell me again how current Hal or Sinestro stalemate against that? Especially when you consider that only two of these feats are post-upgraded Annihilation Surfer? Are there some feats they have performed that match these? By all means, please share them.

It really isn't hard considering all this stuff either had help, SS had little control of it, or wasn't doing any of this simultaneously.

Also, in that crossover SS couldn't absorb Oan energy unless it was GIVEN to him. Kyle had to literally give him the energy (only because he was inexperienced) as when SS was low on energy he couldn't absorb any of Kyle's blasts.

By that X-over, Kyle did something SS has never done, he drained Thanos energy to the point where he was powerlessly weak. Ect..not just of OAN energy, but of his own cosmic energy as well.

Surfer's energy has been jacked completely (leaving him powerless) or tapped into enough times to know that it's not impossible to do or even a long process when it comes to it.

Originally posted by Avlon
IMO Cosmic awareness is overrated in battles. It seems like it's suited for cosmic imbalance awareness than actual battle. The ring is a better tool for that. Not only is the computer in the ring able to do the same exact thing, it's also a virtual encyclopedia of information accessible by mere thought. It automatically gives the GL's information needed and anything else can be asked *or thought of* and the answer is provided.

IMO the ring is a superior choice in this category.

That's your opinion. Fact is, just as you say, Hal has to ask his ring or command his ring to scan. If you're asserting that Silver Surfer could use Cosmic Awareness to instantly analyze GL energy and even usurp it, I'd disagree with that, despite never seeing Surfer fail at analyzing and manipulating any energy he's come across. At the same time, I would disagree that Hal could use his GL ring to instantly analyze and even usurp the Power Cosmic. Annihilus and Thanos couldn't harness/usurp the Power Cosmic despite their combined efforts, time and vast technological resources.
Originally posted by Avlon
Rings are classified as planet destroying weapons. You are right that it's not casual but then again GL's are used to protect. *IE* You won't really see that type of thing because it's not what their function is. Kind of like baking a cake... I'm sure it can be done, but you won't see it on panel much if at all.
The same could be said of Beta Ray Bill and Silver Surfer, but they have the feats. GL's don't. It's speculation they could casually destroy planets. It's wildly speculative nonsense they could casually create enormous black holes.
Originally posted by Avlon
Interestingly enough, SS states here that the board enhances his hyperspace abilities and that he would be trapped without it.

It wouldn't be hard to surround SS in a bubble that prevents him from accessing cosmic energy ala Dr. Strange.

Classic Dr. Strange briefly trapped Silver Surfer in a sphere with his magic:
http://img158.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bubbleqt3.jpg

And from that, you readily assume that a GL could do the same with their ring? I don't think so. GLs don't use classic Dr. Strange-level magic.

Originally posted by Avlon
I've seen an old scan of Hal and the league being in a similar predicament and coming out of it.

This feat is more of a willpower feat. Surfer isn't really going to survive being cut into pieces and we all know it.

Surfer's survived being cut to pieces three separate times. He can survive being cut up and now you know. And the feat you're referring to is pre-Crisis Hal. This thread involves current Hal, so it's not valid. And I might as well discuss this again since I always encounter it in GL-involved threads. Green Lanterns like Hal retain their memories of the original Crisis. But this, on it's own, is no justification to attribute them pre-Crisis feats and pre-Crisis levels of power. There are three reasons. First, simply retaining memories of erased events does not allow alternate futures to be used, i.e. Superman/Batman storyline of 'Absolute Power' or Thor's storyline from 'The Reigning.' Superman, Batman and Thor retain full memories from their adventures in the future, but because of their non-canonicity as alternate futures we don't attribute current Superman, Batman or Thor any of those feats.

This might sound like a convenient equivocation for "Silver Surfer fanboys" to use against Green Lanterns. But there is a second reason. Because the same standard applies to DC characters. Prime example: Power Girl. She fully retains memories of her adventures with PC Superman and PC Huntress on-panel. In fact, most of her adventures were with PC Superman. Together, they exhibited extraordinary levels of power and accomplished ridiculous feats. Will anybody argue that current Kara is PC Kryptonian-level in power? Hell no. We don't attribute these levels of power to Power Girl just because current Kara retains her pre-Crisis memories. In the same way, we shouldn't attribute these levels of power to Green Lanterns just because current Hal retains his pre-Crisis memories. It doesn't wash and it's a selective double-standard.

We do this because the PC era involved ludicrous feats for many characters that transfer extremely poorly to current continuity. Kryptonians and Green Lanterns are exemplars of this. PC Kryptonians could sneeze away galaxies and tow planets with a chain. But current Kryptonians have never exhibited these levels of power. PC Green Lanterns could casually time-travel and combat black holes. But current GLs have never time-travelled and most have failed when confronting black holes. Finally, if you STILL think this is unfair for current Green Lanterns, just look at how we treat Dr. Strange. All his feats are still in continuity and as soon as New Avengers started punking him, everyone readily responded and agreed that there was a vast difference between classic Strange and current Strange in vs. debates/discussion. This was waaaaaaaay before it was confirmed that Dr. Strange was losing his powers.

For all these reasons, pre-Crisis feats don't apply to current Green Lanterns, much less current Hal Jordan.

Originally posted by Avlon
He got help from a blackbody upgrade which we don't even know if he kept...
This is like using Kyle's feats before he knew about ION power.
Fair enough. Although, Darthgoober has consistently opined that Surfer never got rid of the Blackbody upgrade, whereas Kyle Rayner did get rid of the Ion upgrade. But I'll let Darthgoober argue that point.
Originally posted by Avlon
The 1st feat is hotly disputed, and the second one, while good is nothing tons of characters can't do. A GL would have no problem using a high speed ambush and rescue if needed.
Show me a hotly disputed scan of a GL having nanosecond reaction times and I might let you call it even. Fact is, you can't. And there is evidence against GLs having that kind of reaction/speeds. In 'Crisis of Conscience,' Chronos uses his powers to slow Hal down. Hal's speech slows down to where a syllable is drawn out into seconds. If he or his ring could react in nanoseconds, then the ring would have done it's work in the space of that syllable. But it clearly doesn't.

Besides, Surfer shows the ability to: 1) outrace light speed signals; 2) track/follow light speed signals; AND 3) spiral around light speed energy attacks while retaining fully materialized conscious thoughts:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800917zr6.jpg

Therefore, since Silver Surfer is not prone to hyperbole and his cosmic status is eminently suitable for such reaction/speeds, it's absolutely safe to say that with the above evidence, Silver Surfer has nano-second reaction times as he states in this scan:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg

Originally posted by Avlon
Surfer only started the process. He had no control over it (as in the scans) and then his own power couldn't stop it.
Surfer says that the power is flowing from him uncontrollably as the planet evolves billions of years. Look at the second scan again. He never stops the power from flowing, which is exactly his dilemna. Either way, if you're suggesting that Surfer simply started and stopped... and he no longer needed to let the power flow through the entire planet, that magnifies the feat even further since Surfer can start a planet-wide billions years-long evolution without having to sustain it with continued power. Either way, GLs have nothing close to this.
Originally posted by Avlon
GL's have raised shields to block Supernova level explosions pretty fast.

It really isn't hard considering all this stuff either had help, SS had little control of it, or wasn't doing any of this simultaneously.

I can agree that GLs can survive supernovas. They're going to be hella knocked for a loop though as John Stewart and Tarkus Whin are respectively:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_098.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glshields2.jpg
Originally posted by Avlon
Also, in that crossover SS couldn't absorb Oan energy unless it was GIVEN to him. Kyle had to literally give him the energy (only because he was inexperienced) as when SS was low on energy he couldn't absorb any of Kyle's blasts.

By that X-over, Kyle did something SS has never done, he drained Thanos energy to the point where he was powerlessly weak. Ect..not just of OAN energy, but of his own cosmic energy as well.

Surfer's energy has been jacked completely (leaving him powerless) or tapped into enough times to know that it's not impossible to do or even a long process when it comes to it.

Crossovers aren't canon. I know you're responding to someone else, but they aren't canon. Otherwise a schmuck like Photon can strip Hal of his powers. No thanks. Surfer has been jacked by Dr. Doom and that's pretty much it. Dr. Doom first accomplished this against a depowered Earth-bound Surfer through trickery and an ambush. And as far as I know, only Dr. Doom has stolen/replicated Surfer's power subsequently through trickery/ambush again. GLs do not have Dr. Doom's experience or technology. Hell, Annihilus and Thanos don't have it either. In my opinion, Dr. Doom is the only character I know of other than Galactus that can steal the Power Cosmic.

Outright lies. PC feats ARE canon to GLs. The Anti-Monitor imprisoned the guardians and most of the corp by turning the power of the CPB against them.

The power source remained constant.

Originally posted by Avlon
IMO Cosmic awareness is overrated in battles. It seems like it's suited for cosmic imbalance awareness than actual battle. The ring is a better tool for that. Not only is the computer in the ring able to do the same exact thing, it's also a virtual encyclopedia of information accessible by mere thought. It automatically gives the GL's information needed and anything else can be asked *or thought of* and the answer is provided.

IMO the ring is a superior choice in this category.

Rings are classified as planet destroying weapons. You are right that it's not casual but then again GL's are used to protect. *IE* You won't really see that type of thing because it's not what their function is. Kind of like baking a cake... I'm sure it can be done, but you won't see it on panel much if at all.

Interestingly enough, SS states here that the board enhances his hyperspace abilities and that he would be trapped without it.

It wouldn't be hard to surround SS in a bubble that prevents him from accessing cosmic energy ala Dr. Strange.

I've seen an old scan of Hal and the league being in a similar predicament and coming out of it.

This feat is more of a willpower feat. Surfer isn't really going to survive being cut into pieces and we all know it.

He got help from a blackbody upgrade which we don't even know if he kept...
This is like using Kyle's feats before he knew about ION power.

The 1st feat is hotly disputed, and the second one, while good is nothing tons of characters can't do. A GL would have no problem using a high speed ambush and rescue if needed.

Surfer only started the process. He had no control over it (as in the scans) and then his own power couldn't stop it.

GL's have raised shields to block Supernova level explosions pretty fast.

It really isn't hard considering all this stuff either had help, SS had little control of it, or wasn't doing any of this simultaneously.

Also, in that crossover SS couldn't absorb Oan energy unless it was GIVEN to him. Kyle had to literally give him the energy (only because he was inexperienced) as when SS was low on energy he couldn't absorb any of Kyle's blasts.

By that X-over, Kyle did something SS has never done, he drained Thanos energy to the point where he was powerlessly weak. Ect..not just of OAN energy, but of his own cosmic energy as well.

Surfer's energy has been jacked completely (leaving him powerless) or tapped into enough times to know that it's not impossible to do or even a long process when it comes to it.

Cosmic awareness actually IS useful in battles. It instantly gives surfer important info about his opponent and also provides SS with important info about the nature of his environment. This is howver different from SS actual enhanced senses. Evn without the CA the surfer has extremly high end enrgy scanning and detection abiilities. All which will be very useful in battle. Ultra enhanced senses and and cosmic awareness is superior in this category IMO.

Also the rings may be classified as planet destroying weapons and personally i dont doubt their ability in that regard but when it comes to the actual destructive power output SS has them beaten feats wise.

As for the Dr strange thing. It should not evn be referenced considering that it was a magically designed forcefield made by classic strange. Gls are not using classic strange level magic. Just because Classic stranges magic forcefiled was able to do it( temporarily) does not mean that a GLs forcefield can. Not just any forcefield can cut off SSs power.

SS ability to fight or at least retain consciousness while in pieces has been shown on a few occasions and so has been verified. Also in the feat where surfer evolevd the planet billions of years, he did not simply start the process. What happened was that he was unable to control the amount of power he was using to perform the feat. Surfer has also molecularly repaired billions of people on another planet before which further shows his ability to molecularly affect beings on a planetary scale.

As for sufers enrgy being high jacked, this has hapeened only by high level tech or higher level enrgy manipulators( superior to gls). Surfer has shown against beings like quasar that his enrgy is NOT easy to manipulate or absorb.

"Cosmic awareness actually IS useful in battles. It instantly gives surfer important info about his opponent and also provides SS with important info about the nature of his environment. This is howver different from SS actual enhanced senses. Evn without the CA the surfer has extremly high end enrgy scanning and detection abiilities. All which will be very useful in battle. Ultra enhanced senses and and cosmic awareness is superior in this category IMO."

Last I checked, Sinestro&Hal are fighting Norrin Radd, not Mar or Genis-vell. 🙄

I hate that about Surfer fans. They always assume that all cosmic awareness is equal. No. Surfer is nowhere near as in-tune with everything as the way he's described on here at times. The kind of awareness you are ascribing him, is what Mar&Genis have.

Who has Surfer fought that's a true equal to him? Because generally, his opponents are either vastly inferior, or generally superior.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Fair enough. Although, Darthgoober has consistently opined that Surfer never got rid of the Blackbody upgrade, whereas Kyle Rayner did get rid of the Ion upgrade. But I'll let Darthgoober argue that point.

Better question is has it been mentioned afterwards as an upgrade that he has kept? Technically Kyle still has the starheart as well. I don't factor it into battles though.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
me a hotly disputed scan of a GL having nanosecond reaction times and I might let you call it even. Fact is, you can't. And there is evidence against GLs having that kind of reaction/speeds. In 'Crisis of Conscience,' Chronos uses his powers to slow Hal down. Hal's speech slows down to where a syllable is drawn out into seconds. If he or his ring could react in nanoseconds, then the ring would have done it's work in the space of that syllable. But it clearly doesn't.

I was speaking of Surfers reaction times in battle. He's great on his board while traveling...however, on foot he's a slug.

GL's can travel to keep up with Flash or Supes and perform actions while doing so as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/2d445df5.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glreactionspeed1.jpg

I don't count any of them (Surfer or GL) as truly having super reactions during battle. Unlike Supes or Flash who have truly used superspeed in battle situations.

As for the scan of SS being in pieces. Nothing Hal hasn't dealt with. His body was actually in different DIMENSIONS and he recovered a lot easier than SS did.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_149-29.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
, Surfer shows the ability to: 1) outrace light speed signals; 2) track/follow light speed signals; AND 3) spiral around light speed energy attacks while retaining fully materialized conscious thoughts:
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9413/silversurfer198700132uw6.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4861/silversurfer198700133ns0.jpg
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/964/silversurfer198700134la1.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4607/silversurfer198902419zi3.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5436/silversurfer198902420ty6.jpg

http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800917zr6.jpg

He's ambushing in one at high speed, and going into a laser in another. I don't see these as anything special in battle.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Therefore, since Silver Surfer is not prone to hyperbole and his cosmic status is eminently suitable for such reaction/speeds, it's absolutely safe to say that with the above evidence, Silver Surfer has nano-second reaction times as he states in this scan:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg

The scans haven't proven it, especially in battle. One could debate that Batman dodging lasers gives him such speeds.

As for Black holes. It depends on the GL. Seeing as this is a rookie, and we have 2 of the best GL's here, SS creating of fighting in a black hole is of no consequence as per this scan.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl169_10.jpg

Here are a bunch of GL's going through a black hole just fine.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/377424dc.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7686be08.jpg

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
says that the power is flowing from him uncontrollably as the planet evolves billions of years. Look at the second scan again. He never stops the power from flowing, which is exactly his dilemna. Either way, if you're suggesting that Surfer simply started and stopped... and he no longer needed to let the power flow through the entire planet, that magnifies the feat even further since Surfer can start a planet-wide billions years-long evolution without having to sustain it with continued power. Either way, GLs have nothing close to this.
I can agree that GLs can survive supernovas. They're going to be hella knocked for a loop though as John Stewart and Tarkus Whin are respectively:
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_098.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Green%20Lantern/glshields2.jpg

Surfer couldn't control it and he simply was a catalyst to it. Should a GL have tried something like that, he/she would need quite a bit of willpower.

Still, It's an impressive feat, but not quite what it's made out to be...also, it's would be worthless considering a feat from Hal like this:

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a22a8b50.jpg

Stopping time for an entire solar system.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
aren't canon. I know you're responding to someone else, but they aren't canon. Otherwise a schmuck like Photon can strip Hal of his powers. No thanks. Surfer has been jacked by Dr. Doom and that's pretty much it. Dr. Doom first accomplished this against a depowered Earth-bound Surfer through trickery and an ambush. And as far as I know, only Dr. Doom has stolen/replicated Surfer's power subsequently through trickery/ambush again. GLs do not have Dr. Doom's experience or technology. Hell, Annihilus and Thanos don't have it either. In my opinion, Dr. Doom is the only character I know of other than Galactus that can steal the Power Cosmic.

I know xovers aren't canon, but if people want to use that particular xover, they are definitely barking up the wrong tree. Especially when they misrepresent it.

Doom jacked SS, Black Panther using a modified version of that tech has done it very recently as well. Ironman has tapped into SS power cosmic on the fly and the result has been a double KO. The Sonic Shark (human built missile) did so and weakened SS for a while, Dr. Strange put a bubble that prevented power cosmic from reaching SS which weakened him.

Surfer is far from invincible as well. Cyanide and T-gas can kill or KO him in sufficient amounts.