Hal Jordan and Sinestro vs Silver Surfer

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Cosmic awareness actually IS useful in battles. It instantly gives surfer important info about his opponent and also provides SS with important info about the nature of his environment. This is howver different from SS actual enhanced senses. Evn without the CA the surfer has extremly high end enrgy scanning and detection abiilities. All which will be very useful in battle. Ultra enhanced senses and and cosmic awareness is superior in this category IMO.

The rings in general are superior and they do this more often. Surfers cosmic awareness is generally useless in battle.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
the rings may be classified as planet destroying weapons and personally i dont doubt their ability in that regard but when it comes to the actual destructive power output SS has them beaten feats wise.

Not particularly. Both GL's and SS have good and diverse feats, but I generally think they are on the same category.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
for the Dr strange thing. It should not evn be referenced considering that it was a magically designed forcefield made by classic strange. Gls are not using classic strange level magic. Just because Classic stranges magic forcefiled was able to do it( temporarily) does not mean that a GLs forcefield can. Not just any forcefield can cut off SSs power.

All Strange's bubble did was cut off cosmic energy from penetrating the bubble. It's something a GL should be able to do with ease with a construct.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
ability to fight or at least retain consciousness while in pieces has been shown on a few occasions and so has been verified. Also in the feat where surfer evolevd the planet billions of years, he did not simply start the process. What happened was that he was unable to control the amount of power he was using to perform the feat. Surfer has also molecularly repaired billions of people on another planet before which further shows his ability to molecularly affect beings on a planetary scale.

I showed a scan of Hal doing the same while his body was in different dimensions. He's also stopped time for an entire star system.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
for sufers enrgy being high jacked, this has hapeened only by high level tech or higher level enrgy manipulators( superior to gls). Surfer has shown against beings like quasar that his enrgy is NOT easy to manipulate or absorb.

Actually Iron man, and human built tech has done it just fine.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"Cosmic awareness actually IS useful in battles. It instantly gives surfer important info about his opponent and also provides SS with important info about the nature of his environment. This is howver different from SS actual enhanced senses. Evn without the CA the surfer has extremly high end enrgy scanning and detection abiilities. All which will be very useful in battle. Ultra enhanced senses and and cosmic awareness is superior in this category IMO."

Last I checked, Sinestro&Hal are fighting Norrin Radd, not Mar or Genis-vell. 🙄

I hate that about Surfer fans. They always assume that all cosmic awareness is equal. No. Surfer is nowhere near as in-tune with everything as the way he's described on here at times. The kind of awareness you are ascribing him, is what Mar&Genis have.

Who has Surfer fought that's a true equal to him? Because generally, his opponents are either vastly inferior, or generally superior.

What the Hell !? All ive described of surfer is basis cosmic awareness and nothing exxagerated. Heck i evn used genral terms like important info so how were you evn able to determine what i meant? lol. Surfer has shown he can sense weaknesses, peoples enrgy sigantures, presence of life, hidden or concealed things, true intentions of beings and evn sense things on other levels of reality. Not exxageration but actual fact. I wonder how you came to the conclusion i was exxagerating when i hardly mentioned anything he could do 😂

And surfer fights herald level charcters all the time and while he may be superior to them they are generally grouped in the same class.

Originally posted by Avlon
The rings in general are superior and they do this more often. Surfers cosmic awareness is generally useless in battle.

Not particularly. Both GL's and SS have good and diverse feats, but I generally think they are on the same category.

All Strange's bubble did was cut off cosmic energy from penetrating the bubble. It's something a GL should be able to do with ease with a construct.

I showed a scan of Hal doing the same while his body was in different dimensions. He's also stopped time for an entire star system.

Actually Iron man, and human built tech has done it just fine.

Ive described some of the things surfers cosmic awareness can and has done. ITs usefulness in battle would depend on the person SS is actually fighting and would vary from battle to battle.

Doctors strange said his bubble cut off use of power. This evidently means that it could cut off powers from functioning from not only beings using cosmic enrgy but any enrgy at all. To put it better actually its not about cutting off enrgy but the spell being made to stop powers from working temporarily. Gls forcefields and Classic stranges bubble as i said are unrelated.

And we really should not bring marvel human buil tech into this. Beings like iron man reed richards and doom have created equipment of unimaginable power and also especially for doom capable of stealing enrgy from beings of unimaginable power. It is in no way a bad feat for SS to have his powers stolen by such beings considering their track record.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
And we really should not bring marvel human buil tech into this. Beings like iron man reed richards and doom have created equipment of unimaginable power and also especially for doom capable of stealing enrgy from beings of unimaginable power. It is in no way a bad feat for SS to have his powers stolen by such beings considering their track record.

IronMan's tech is not even close to being out of the league of a GL's ability to create.

Originally posted by Avlon

Not particularly. Both GL's and SS have good and diverse feats, but I generally think they are on the same category.

I showed a scan of Hal doing the same while his body was in different dimensions. He's also stopped time for an entie star system.

Im not sure of this but ur scans look pretty old as in pre crisis. NOw i must admit that im no master of Dc continuity and certainly wont get into an argument concerning the validity of pre crisis feats. Ill leave that to Onedumb. Howver in the feat where the GL supposedly stops time of a whole solar system he specifically mentions freezing the beings within a thousand miles of the planet. It then says the creatures of the berlotte system are frozen but certainly does not say that ALL the people in the system are frozen. Now this might( not very likely) have been up for debate if hal had not specifically stated that he was freezing evryone within one thousand miles. Frankly that is not evn half the size of a planet let alone a whole solar sytem.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
IronMan's tech is not even close to being out of the league of a GL's ability to create.

Guys like Iron man can achieve unbeleivable things with prep time. They also have had numerous encounters with SS and experience with the PC.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Guys like Iron man can achieve unbeleivable things with prep time. They also have had numerous encounters with SS and experience with the PC.

GLs have used their rings to develop counter measures instantly about things they know next to nothing about. The ring also allows them to scan targets for data.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Ive described some of the things surfers cosmic awareness can and has done. ITs usefulness in battle would depend on the person SS is actually fighting and would vary from battle to battle.

You've seen SS use Cosmic awareness offensively in battle?

Originally posted by ultimatethor
strange said his bubble cut off use of power. This evidently means that it could cut off powers from functioning from not only beings using cosmic enrgy but any enrgy at all. To put it better actually its not about cutting off enrgy but the spell being made to stop powers from working temporarily. Gls forcefields and Classic stranges bubble as i said are unrelated.

Considering that GL constructs can do basically anything that the wielder desires, this is something that is not hard to recreate.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
we really should not bring marvel human buil tech into this. Beings like iron man reed richards and doom have created equipment of unimaginable power and also especially for doom capable of stealing enrgy from beings of unimaginable power. It is in no way a bad feat for SS to have his powers stolen by such beings considering their track record.

Iron man's tech (especially in that era) is easily to recreate. All Tony really did was mess with the EM spectrum.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Im not sure of this but ur scans look pretty old as in pre crisis. NOw i must admit that im no master of Dc continuity and certainly wont get into an argument concerning the validity of pre crisis feats. Ill leave that to Onedumb. Howver in the feat where the GL supposedly stops time of a whole solar system he specifically mentions freezing the beings within a thousand miles of the planet. It then says the creatures of the berlotte system are frozen but certainly does not say that ALL the people in the system are frozen. Now this might( not very likely) have been up for debate if hal had not specifically stated that he was freezing evryone within one thousand miles. Frankly that is not evn half the size of a planet let alone a whole solar sytem.

A thousand miles of the planet means the whole planet. As narration itself states that the beings of the system are frozen, that takes priority.

He froze the entire system. It's > planet.

Originally posted by Avlon
You've seen SS use Cosmic awareness offensively in battle?

Considering that GL constructs can do basically anything that the wielder desires, this is something that is not hard to recreate.

Iron man's tech (especially in that era) is easily to recreate. All Tony really did was mess with the EM spectrum.

The cosmic awareness is something that helps SS be more in tune with his environment. Against gladiator though they did not actually fight SS was able to sense his weakness. That would be very useful in battle. It also helps him sense the true nature of enemies which he has done in battle.

Gls powers DO NOT functon similarly to magic so this point is moot and should be dropped.

Ive not seen the iron man feat so i really cant determine what happened.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
Gls powers DO NOT functon similarly to magic so this point is moot and should be dropped.

so why are they mistaken for it at times, even by the likes of hawkman?

Originally posted by ultimatethor
The cosmic awareness is something that helps SS be more in tune with his environment. Against gladiator though they did not actually fight SS was able to sense his weakness. That would be very useful in battle. It also helps him sense the true nature of enemies which he has done in battle.

It said that SS knew of his vulnerability. Nothing was said that it was due to cosmic awareness.

http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer5-18a.jpg

Even then, it's a bluff/hyperbole since nothing came out of it.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
powers DO NOT functon similarly to magic so this point is moot and should be dropped.

They don't have to. It's a simple construct either way. Not sure why you don't understand that.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
not seen the iron man feat so i really cant determine what happened.

He absorbed SS energy on the fly enough for them both to be KO'd. This wasn't even a recent costume. It was old tech.

This thread is hilarious. 🙂

Originally posted by batdude123
This thread is hilarious. 🙂

you're hilarious...

...but not really.

Hal and Sin ftw!

Like its been stated before. One of them alone would give Surfer a good run.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Outright lies. PC feats ARE canon to GLs. The Anti-Monitor imprisoned the guardians and most of the corp by turning the power of the CPB against them.

The power source remained constant.

Originally posted by Avlon
He's ambushing in one at high speed, and going into a laser in another. I don't see these as anything special in battle.

The scans haven't proven it, especially in battle. One could debate that Batman dodging lasers gives him such speeds.

Originally posted by Avlon
As for the scan of SS being in pieces. Nothing Hal hasn't dealt with. His body was actually in different DIMENSIONS and he recovered a lot easier than SS did.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_149-29.jpg

Originally posted by Avlon
As for Black holes. It depends on the GL. Seeing as this is a rookie, and we have 2 of the best GL's here, SS creating of fighting in a black hole is of no consequence as per this scan.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/gl169_10.jpg

Here are a bunch of GL's going through a black hole just fine.

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/377424dc.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/7686be08.jpg

Originally posted by Avlon
Surfer couldn't control it and he simply was a catalyst to it. Should a GL have tried something like that, he/she would need quite a bit of willpower.

Still, It's an impressive feat, but not quite what it's made out to be...also, it's would be worthless considering a feat from Hal like this:

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/a22a8b50.jpg

Stopping time for an entire solar system.

Originally posted by Avlon
Doom jacked SS, Black Panther using a modified version of that tech has done it very recently as well. Ironman has tapped into SS power cosmic on the fly and the result has been a double KO. The Sonic Shark (human built missile) did so and weakened SS for a while, Dr. Strange put a bubble that prevented power cosmic from reaching SS which weakened him.

Surfer is far from invincible as well. Cyanide and T-gas can kill or KO him in sufficient amounts.

Now this isn't to say that his energies are absolutely immune to siphoning. Hal could try to siphon some of his energies, but there are only a few instances the tactic is used against a decently powered, post-exiled Surfer. Quasar, one of the top energy manipulators, tried it and still was getting beat:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2526/quasar5038mh0.jpg

Rogue tried it and was unsurprisingly overwhelmed. These guys with tech tried it, although they could only do so in increments. I don't know who they are or where their tech came from. Like most of the scans, they are from Darthgoober's respect thread. Darth, do you know who these guys are? Either way, for their troubles, Silver Surfer overloaded them also:
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8799/silversurferv306209ar3.jpg

And a Unipowered Krosakis, who also absorbed Gladiator's energies, tried it. Again, he was overwhelmed by the power:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-16.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-17.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-18.jpg

Unless you possess Dr. Doom's tech, like Black Panther did, you're not stealing/stripping a current post-Annihilation Silver Surfer's Power Cosmic from him. That's the bottom-line. Thanos and Annihilus tried to steal Terrax's and Morg's Power Cosmic and they failed utterly. As for mere energy-siphoning, the only times a post-exiled Surfer has fought energy-siphoning opponents, he either still beat them or just plain overloaded them. Show me scans of a current Hal Jordan absorbing the energies of a competent energy manipulator and then maybe you can start arguing that Hal could attempt to siphon Silver Surfer's energies. And even after that, you still have to argue that Hal could absorb/siphon energies better than Quasar or a Unipowered foe. And even if you can manage that, this is still post-Annihilation upgraded Silver Surfer.

And as for Silver Surfer dying from cyanide poisoning... dur

Originally posted by Avlon
All Strange's bubble did was cut off cosmic energy from penetrating the bubble. It's something a GL should be able to do with ease with a construct.

Classic Dr. Strange's magic is nullifying ALL power within the sphere. It isn't preventing cosmic energy from penetrating the bubble. Read the scan again. GLs do not have classic Dr. Strange level magic.

dur

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
PC feats don't count for current Green Lanterns for the same reason PC feats don't count for current Power Girl. This isn't about lying or telling the truth. I gave you three reasons why we should not consider pre-Crisis continuity when discussing current Green Lanterns. I may not convince you with my reasoning, but you've done nothing to address it.

Probably a post I haven't read since it's not directed at me. Either way, those feats are still quite valid. GL's were neither retconned by it and with new earth, more and more PC stuff is coming back anyway.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
dismissive logic is ludicrous. I've never seen Batman spiral around a light speed energy beam to negate it. I've never seen Batman swerve through a fortress while following a light speed electronic signal and thinking fully conscious thoughts. I presented by arguments for Silver Surfer's nanosecond reaction speeds. If you're not convinced through four scans that involve him breaking out of shackles in a nanosecond, outracing a light speed signal to save Nova, tracking and following a light speed signal through a fortress, AND deflecting a light speed energy beam by spiralling around it; then you will remain unconvinced forever. How you can accomplish these things, all while thinking full coherent thoughts, without having nanosecond reaction speeds is beyond me. They are required for those feats to make sense. If you think they are comparable to Batman dodging lasers, then that = phail.

Your going into a tangent is not becoming. Your arguments are not convincing and the reasons are stated why. Your scans didn't prove anything and you want to hyperbole your way into a victory for SS.

Look at your own statement. SS reflected a beam. LOL How is that different from Bats dodging a laser? Where are the feats of SS doing things in battle at these speeds? Non existent. Mind numbing long walls of text don't make you right.

Sorry things haven't worked in your favor.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
-Crisis. That's from Justice League of America #149, published in 1977.
Pre-Crisis GL rookie for the first scan and he isn't even inside the damn black hole. As for the second scan, they merely survive warping through the black hole. The brief time they spent inside obviously strained them greatly. Do you honestly compare that to Silver Surfer fighting another Herald inside a black hole?
He places any alien within a thousand miles of the planet in life-suspension. He does not stop time for the entire solar system. Big difference. A planet + additional radius of 1000 miles pretty much equals planet. It's a planet-wide feat, not a solar system-wide feat. Great feat on it's own, the hyperbolic miscontruing isn't necessary. And what issue of Green Lantern is this from? Is this pre-Crisis or post-Crisis?
Ironman siphoned some of a depowered, trapped on Earth Silver Surfer's cosmic energy in the 'Avengers-Defenders War' storyline back in 1977, right? GLs don't get to fight a depowered, trapped on Earth Silver Surfer from 1977. They have to fight a post-Annihilation Silver Surfer. Sonic Shark also absorbed a great deal of a depowered, trapped on Earth Silver Surfer's energy. I don't need to repeat myself.

Read the scan again... specifically the narration. What feat has post annihilation SS done that classic hasn't done? Did his energy change that all of a sudden it can't be jacked? BP used the same tech to jack post annnihilation SS of his energy almost instantly.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
this isn't to say that his energies are absolutely immune to siphoning. Hal could try to siphon some of his energies, but there are only a few instances the tactic is used against a decently powered, post-exiled Surfer. Quasar, one of the top energy manipulators, tried it and still was getting beat:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2526/quasar5038mh0.jpg

Rogue tried it and was unsurprisingly overwhelmed. These guys with tech tried it, although they could only do so in increments. I don't know who they are or where their tech came from. Like most of the scans, they are from Darthgoober's respect thread. Darth, do you know who these guys are? Either way, for their troubles, Silver Surfer overloaded them also:
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8799/silversurferv306209ar3.jpg

Quasar threw that fight and has been shown to be able to absorb more energy than SS.

As for Rogue...LOL. She had problems with Magneto.

SS and GL could probably play the energy jacking game all day. Too bad Sinestro is in the fight too...lopsiding it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
a Unipowered Krosakis, who also absorbed Gladiator's energies, tried it. Again, he was overwhelmed by the power:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-16.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-17.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/CaptainUniverseSS1-18.jpg

He sure was...at first SS was trying to resist and the sudden surge did overload him. He wasn't expecting it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
you possess Dr. Doom's tech, like Black Panther did, you're not stealing/stripping a current post-Annihilation Silver Surfer's Power Cosmic from him. That's the bottom-line. Thanos and Annihilus tried to steal Terrax's and Morg's Power Cosmic and they failed utterly. As for mere energy-siphoning, the only times a post-exiled Surfer has fought energy-siphoning opponents, he either still beat them or just plain overloaded them. Show me scans of a current Hal Jordan absorbing the energies of a competent energy manipulator and then maybe you can start arguing that Hal could attempt to siphon Silver Surfer's energies. And even after that, you still have to argue that Hal could absorb/siphon energies better than Quasar or a Unipowered foe. And even if you can manage that, this is still post-Annihilation upgraded Silver Surfer.

Great, show me Surfer absorbing the energy of a GL. Quasar as shown can absorb SS cosmic energy and threw the fight anyway.

Just because a manhunter can do it..it doesn't mean that SS can.

See how easy it is to take that route.

It still doesn't provide the victory that you want here though.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
as for Silver Surfer dying from cyanide poisoning... dur

Being an ass doesn't contribute to your debate. Cyanide lasers were deadly to Surfer. What saved him was he was able to reflect the laser due to his silvery skin (guess thats a FTL example too?)

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
dismissive logic is ludicrous.

Agreed. Don't throw stones from a glass house.

Oh yeah. Just wanted to mention this. Nobody sincerely answered my two questions a few pages ago, "Have GLs fought any opponent other than Manhunters that have tried to drain their rings' energies?" or "What competent energy manipulators have failed to drain Lantern rings of their energies?" But that's fine, because I recalled one example: Black Hand. For those that don't know him, Black Hand is a human scientist who built a rod device that could absorb GL energies. He could also completely drain GL rings and Green Lanterns could do nothing to prevent it. This scan is from Green Lantern #205, published in 1986, which makes it post-Crisis and thus current Hal Jordan:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4301892

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Oh yeah. Just wanted to mention this. Nobody sincerely answered my two questions a few pages ago, "Have GLs fought any opponent other than Manhunters that have tried to drain their rings' energies?" or "What competent energy manipulators have failed to drain Lantern rings of their energies?" But that's fine, because I recalled one example: Black Hand. For those that don't know him, Black Hand is a human scientist who built a rod device that could absorb GL energies. He could also completely drain GL rings and Green Lanterns could do nothing to prevent it. This scan is from Green Lantern #205, published in 1986, which makes it post-Crisis and thus current Hal Jordan:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4301892

unless stated otherwise, people are the same post as they were pre crisis in alot of cases...

just, you know, fyi... srug