Hal Jordan and Sinestro vs Silver Surfer

Originally posted by Avlon
Probably a post I haven't read since it's not directed at me. Either way, those feats are still quite valid. GL's were neither retconned by it and with new earth, more and more PC stuff is coming back anyway.

Originally posted by Avlon
Your going into a tangent is not becoming. Your arguments are not convincing and the reasons are stated why. Your scans didn't prove anything and you want to hyperbole your way into a victory for SS.

Look at your own statement. SS reflected a beam. LOL How is that different from Bats dodging a laser? Where are the feats of SS doing things in battle at these speeds? Non existent. Mind numbing long walls of text don't make you right.

Sorry things haven't worked in your favor.

You didn't bother reading the scan, did you? He's spiralling around the energy beam. He isn't simply standing in front of it. To nullify a beam by spiralling around it requires FTL speeds and reflexes. How the hell is that comparable to Batman dodging lasers? I'm not hyperbolizing anything. In the space of time that an electronic signal travelled through the fortress back to the fortress' computer, Silver Surfer had full thoughts as indicated by his thought bubbles. Light travels roughly 1 foot every 1 nanosecond. Assuming that the fortress is a mile wide, Silver Surfer chased the electronic signal for 5280 feet. That means the entire scene occurred in 5280 nanoseconds. That's 5 picoseconds (1 picosecond = 1000 nanoseconds). In other words, even assuming that the fortress was immense enough to have a mile's worth of corridors, Surfer thought all of his thoughts within 5 picoseconds. Darthgoober is probably the only one that can tell us how big that fortress is. Either way, that's not hyperbole. That's logic. And if you cared to actually read the scan, you would have seen that.

Originally posted by Avlon
Read the scan again... specifically the narration. What feat has post annihilation SS done that classic hasn't done? Did his energy change that all of a sudden it can't be jacked? BP used the same tech to jack post annnihilation SS of his energy almost instantly.

Quasar threw that fight and has been shown to be able to absorb more energy than SS.

As for Rogue...LOL. She had problems with Magneto.

SS and GL could probably play the energy jacking game all day. Too bad Sinestro is in the fight too...lopsiding it.

He sure was...at first SS was trying to resist and the sudden surge did overload him. He wasn't expecting it.

Great, show me Surfer absorbing the energy of a GL. Quasar as shown can absorb SS cosmic energy and threw the fight anyway.

Just because a manhunter can do it..it doesn't mean that SS can.

See how easy it is to take that route.

It still doesn't provide the victory that you want here though.

Originally posted by Avlon
Being an ass doesn't contribute to your debate. Cyanide lasers were deadly to Surfer. What saved him was he was able to reflect the laser due to his silvery skin (guess thats a FTL example too?)

Agreed. Don't throw stones from a glass house.

Originally posted by Raoul
unless stated otherwise, people are the same post as they were pre crisis in alot of cases...

just, you know, fyi... srug

Fact is, current Superman's power level is not PC Kryptonian. And yet, as everybody likes to mention, his adventures as PC Superboy were retconned back into current continuity. "So... considering PC Superboy could tow dozens of planets on a chain, travel through time and throw neutron stars that exert more magnetic pull than a dozen supernovas, do we attribute that to current Superman?"

Answer the question, yes or no.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Name some.

Fact is, current Superman's power level is not PC Kryptonian. And yet, as everybody likes to mention, his adventures as PC Superboy were retconned back into current continuity. "So... considering PC Superboy could tow dozens of planets on a chain, travel through time and throw neutron stars that exert more magnetic pull than a dozen supernovas, do we attribute that to current Superman?"

Answer the question, yes or no.

Superman is one of the 'otherwise stated'

and no, alot of pc feats for superman cant be applied to current superman, but as i said, he's the exception, not the rule...

^ Hal Jordan is also one of the 'otherwise stated.'

Current Superman isn't the exception. He's a prime example of the application of the general rule that pre-Crisis is pre-Crisis and not current continuity. We disregard pre-Crisis continuity when discussing current DC characters. That is the general rule, not the other way around. People have acknowledged this by making threads with classic Hal Jordan.

Now some people are arguing that the exception to the rule is Green Lantern. Utter garbage. Power Girl has just as much reason to share her pre-Crisis continuity as Hal does since she also remembers everything. Current Superman has MORE reason to share in his pre-Crisis continuity than Hal does since his pre-Crisis adventures as Superboy were officially retconned back into current continuity. How does Hal become the exception to this rule and they don't? Anybody who believes such a result passes the bullshit test is applying a selective double-standard solely out of ignorant convenience or rampant fanboyism.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Hal Jordan is also one of the 'otherwise stated.'

proof?

Current Superman isn't the exception. He's a prime example of the application of the general rule that pre-Crisis is pre-Crisis and not current continuity. We disregard pre-Crisis continuity when discussing current DC characters. That is the general rule, not the other way around. People have acknowledged this by making threads with classic Hal Jordan.

yet in dc the lanterns weren't altered that much by the crisis at all... they knew the anti monitor, their rings were still weak against yellow right up until kyle came along...

Now some people are arguing that the exception to the rule is Green Lantern. Utter garbage. Power Girl has just as much reason to share her pre-Crisis continuity as Hal does since she also remembers everything. Current Superman has MORE reason to share in his pre-Crisis continuity than Hal does since his pre-Crisis adventures as Superboy were officially retconned back into current continuity. How does Hal become the exception to this rule and they don't? Anybody who believes such a result passes the bullshit test is applying a selective double-standard solely out of ignorant convenience or rampant fanboyism.

anyone, as in me?

superman has some experiences that he shared with the legion made canon again, thats all.

powergirl is actually from earth 2.

still not seen any rational argument for believing Hal + Sinestro could beat current Surfer.

the scans Symmetric Chaos put up, are more convincing as reasons why no GL could beat Surfer - the ring is too slow, too weak, too limited, compared to the Power Cosmic.

Originally posted by Raoul
proof?

yet in dc the lanterns weren't altered that much by the crisis at all... they knew the anti monitor, their rings were still weak against yellow right up until kyle came along...

anyone, as in me?

superman has some experiences that he shared with the legion made canon again, thats all.

powergirl is actually from earth 2.

Pre-Crisis Hal has time-travelled with ease several times. You've seen the scans in the respect thread, I'm sure. After the Crisis, not a single Green Lantern has travelled through time using their ring. Indeed, here we see Hal, as Parallax (hereafter referred to as Hallax), stating he had to take time to refocus his energies JUST so he could slip into the timestream. Then he used the energy anomalies to travel to the end of time:
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9km8.jpg

That's a pretty damn stark contrast, if not outright contradiction when Hallax, possessed of the entire Power of the Guardians drained from the Central Power Battery, had to find a roundabout way to time-travel as opposed to pre-Crisis Hal, who could do the same with a normal ring and zip back and forth through time as easily as you or I walk through the door.

Green Lanterns are the exception to the Crisis? It doesn't wash. Kara is from Earth-2, so what? She remembers all her adventures with PC Superman (or Superman-2), they happened to her pre-Crisis. Her origin is still the same. But she's exhibited FAR less power than what she exhibited pre-Crisis. What's the difference between her and Hal? Somehow, you decided that this exception became the rule? No thanks. What other DC characters do you think retain their pre-Crisis continuity?

I don't get it, why do people assume that Pre Crisis GL feats are valid just because the GL's "remember" things from the PC era? Even directly following COIE several DC characters still remembered and referenced events from Pre Crisis stories but we've never credited them with PC feats to my knowledge 😬 .

Originally posted by Avlon
They don't have to. It's a simple construct either way. Not sure why you don't understand that.

He absorbed SS energy on the fly enough for them both to be KO'd. This wasn't even a recent costume. It was old tech.

Saying that its just a simple construct and so a GL can do also is absolutely ridiculous considering that Classic strange used magic to accomplish it. It was NOT simply an enrgy sphere he trapped SS in. It was a mystic field that cancels out all power within it. How is Hal Jordan going to do that without magic? YEs Hal can create a forcefield around SS but to say it will work the same way as Stranges forcefield is laughable. Strange used magic to cast that sphere which hal wont be using. Lets say strange had used a magic sphere that causes the powers of the person within to change form( e.g instead of supes heat vision water starts coming out of his eyes), Do u think Hal would be able to do the same? Afterall in ur own words it is just a construct isnt it? 😕.Weak reasoning to say the least.

Now that ive seen the scan i really dont know why ur referencing it. It happened to a depowered surfer much weaker than evn normal surfer before annihalation let alone after his upgrade. Surfer has since then resisted is enrgy being absorbed by numerous beings and there certainly no way in hell current iron man is absorbing post annihaltion surfers powers.

Originally posted by Avlon

Read the scan again... specifically the narration. What feat has post annihilation SS done that classic hasn't done? Did his energy change that all of a sudden it can't be jacked? BP used the same tech to jack post annnihilation SS of his energy almost instantly.

Quasar threw that fight and has been shown to be able to absorb more energy than SS.

In the so called solar system time freezing scan it is never mentioned that Hal froze ALL the beings in the solar system. Hal himself states that he is freezing all creatures within a thousand mile radius of the shattered planet. The narration then says the beings of the system are then frozen referring to those within the thousand mile radius( who are beings of that solar system) that Hal himself mentions. NO where did it say ALL the beings in the solar sytem and thankfully it did not as that would have contradicted what Hal himself said he was doing.

And inreference to the quasar fight, Quasar might have thrown the fight but it does not take away from his admission( It was actually a thought so he was not simply lying to SS) that he was unable to absorb all of SS enrgy. Yes it has bin shown that Quasar can absorb more enrgy than SS but SS enrgy absorption capabilities dont evn come into play in that scan rather it is his large enrgy output that is portrayed there.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Does Kara possess a pre-Crisis Kryptonian power level?" Answer the question. Yes or no. Your unsupported conclusion and dodge of my reasoning is hardly convincing.

Sidetracking gibberish. Do you have any proof that the GL's (who's rings are still stated to be able to do nearly anything) cannot do these things?

I'm not seeing where powergirl (who is a completely different character with a COMPLETELY different continuity) fits into this.

Dodging fits you quite well as I see you dropped parts of the posts which don't serve you well.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800917zr6.jpg

You didn't bother reading the scan, did you? He's spiralling around the energy beam. He isn't simply standing in front of it. To nullify a beam by spiralling around it requires FTL speeds and reflexes. How the hell is that comparable to Batman dodging lasers? I'm not hyperbolizing anything. In the space of time that an electronic signal travelled through the fortress back to the fortress' computer, Silver Surfer had full thoughts as indicated by his thought bubbles. Light travels roughly 1 foot every 1 nanosecond. Assuming that the fortress is a mile wide, Silver Surfer chased the electronic signal for 5280 feet. That means the entire scene occurred in 5280 nanoseconds. That's 5 picoseconds (1 picosecond = 1000 nanoseconds). In other words, even assuming that the fortress was immense enough to have a mile's worth of corridors, Surfer thought all of his thoughts within 5 picoseconds. Darthgoober is probably the only one that can tell us how big that fortress is. Either way, that's not hyperbole. That's logic. And if you cared to actually read the scan, you would have seen that.

Oh, I read the scan. It's you who is rationalizing it. Because you know, I'm sure the writer sat down and did all that math. How about we look again and we see that he's blocking a beam which is SMALLER THAN HIS BODY by RUNNING INTO IT. Try again.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Since when does a GL have Doom's tech in this fight? By that very same logic, since when does Silver Surfer have Black Hand's tech? Please. Anytime a foe has tried to siphon a post-exiled Silver Surfer's energy, they either lost or they were overwhelmed. And current Hal has had his ring completely drained by Black Hand. With this in mind, you tell me how current Hal and current Surfer stack up when you compare outright energy stealing or mere energy siphoning.

What part of "ring can do anything" have we missed here? Why would a GL need to have intimate knowledge of Doom's tech. When creating constructs, do all GL's know everything about each one? If creating a dog, does that mean a GL is a vet with intimate knowledge of the creatures biological mechanisms?

Kyle has created demons, does that mean that he's now equal in knowledge to Mephisto?

I see you stopped mentioning Quasar since we both know the original fight was thrown on Quasars end AND that Quasar has out-absorbed SS anyway. Now you want to disregard other times SS has been jacked easily. Funny how people started mentioning the xover earlier and now nobody has anything to say about it.

And great way to miss the point. I've never claimed that a GL's ring can't be drained, I was just simply showing that SS can be drained as well. The Quasar example you brought up is a great example of it happening too.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Then if it didn't work on Silver Surfer, what the hell is the point of mentioning it? Oh and sorry about the walls of text, I am actually taking the effort to address every single one of your points. Can't say the same for you.

Because it has the same chance of working on GL as SS. Iron man did it by manipulating EM energy. Last I remember, there are more characters than Doom and Reed proficient with manipulating such energy. Seems like the simple things go over your head.

Speed? Negligible. SS has no real battle feats utilizing it.

Energy absorption? All characters on the field can be drained.

Versatility? All characters are dripping with it.

Strength/Durability? All can amp.

NUMBERS? Work against Surfer.

You can debate SS vs GL or Sinestro seperately all you want. It's a good debate...but vs both Hal and Sinestro? SS gets stomped.

Originally posted by ultimatethor
In the so called solar system time freezing scan it is never mentioned that Hal froze [B]ALL the beings in the solar system. Hal himself states that he is freezing all creatures within a thousand mile radius of the shattered planet. The narration then says the beings of the system are then frozen referring to those within the thousand mile radius( who are beings of that solar system) that Hal himself mentions. NO where did it say ALL the beings in the solar sytem and thankfully it did not as that would have contradicted what Hal himself said he was doing.[/B]

It says every being in "the system" is frozen. Narration pretty much always takes precedence over thoughts and statements by characters because it is in the 3rd person omniscient.

Why do I see feats from Kyle, Raker, John etc here? No one applies the feats of other heralds or PC users for SS. The same should apply for the GLs.

It's been a good read thus far. Props to the debaters involved. I'm going with the team for a solid majority.

Originally posted by Ouallada
Why do I see feats from Kyle, Raker, John etc here? No one applies the feats of other heralds or PC users for SS. The same should apply for the GLs.

All GLs have exactly the same abilities the skill of the used and the will power he has is the only limiting factor.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
All GLs have exactly the same abilities the skill of the used and the will power he has is the only limiting factor.

Precisely. That alone should negate feats from other GLs, because every single GL has high feats that are accomplished by willpower, and it is (imo) fallacious to place every feat within Hal's scope of ability just because Hal is the premier GL when it comes to willpower. That is the same as saying that every piece of art by Rothko should be replicable by da Vinci, since the only differentials are inherent in the artists.

By the same coin, if SS has been bestowed the largest amount of PC by G of all the heralds, every single one of the other heralds' feats should be applicable to him as well. That of course isn't the case, as every best-fit line has outliers, and Terrax's best-fit line would still have points and thus feats that are above SS' average.

Originally posted by Avlon
Sidetracking gibberish. Do you have any proof that the GL's (who's rings are still stated to be able to do nearly anything) cannot do these things?

I'm not seeing where powergirl (who is a completely different character with a COMPLETELY different continuity) fits into this.

Dodging fits you quite well as I see you dropped parts of the posts which don't serve you well.

Originally posted by Avlon
Oh, I read the scan. It's you who is rationalizing it. Because you know, I'm sure the writer sat down and did all that math. How about we look again and we see that he's blocking a beam which is SMALLER THAN HIS BODY by RUNNING INTO IT. Try again.

Dude. It's on-panel. In the space of time that a light speed signal travelled that distance, picoseconds at best, he swerves through a fortress, blasts walls and thinks those thoughts. If Superman outraced a swerving cellphone's light speed signal to a satellite and started musing about what to cook for dinner in that minute space of time, it is picosecond/nanosecond reflexes. If Superman thought in his head, "I have only a nanosecond to escape." And he does so, I would believe that as proof. The same way Mr. Majestic states he uses his super speed to build tech with nanoseconds to spare. Fact is, I've got four scans that shows him maneuvering and blasting and thinking fully conscious thoughts in the space of nanoseconds and where he physically flexes in the space of a nanosecond and spirals around a beam with FTL speeds:
http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silversurfer198800917zr6.jpg

If it was as simple as him just standing still and blocking the beam, that's different. Fact is, the diameter of the beam may correspond with the Surfer's height. But the Surfer's width does not match the beam's diameter. Fact is, he's twirling around a light speed energy beam! How is that not FTL speeds? Fact is, whether you want to label these scans as circumstantial or hyperbole, Lanterns have nothing close to this. Best you have is Hal keeping up with Barry going at an indescript speed and an outright misreading where John Stewart is quicker on the draw than Superman, not Wally.

Originally posted by Avlon
What part of "ring can do anything" have we missed here? Why would a GL need to have intimate knowledge of Doom's tech. When creating constructs, do all GL's know everything about each one? If creating a dog, does that mean a GL is a vet with intimate knowledge of the creatures biological mechanisms?

Kyle has created demons, does that mean that he's now equal in knowledge to Mephisto?

I have no problem agreeing that a Lantern could exactly imitate scientific tech with their rings or build actual scientific tech through transmutation. But for those feats, where current Lanterns actually use their plasma constructs to imitate or build scientific technology, Lanterns have had guidance or an example to extrapolate from. For example, here, John Stewart recreates a piece of tech. But his exact words are, "My power ring had a chance to analyze the device earlier. So making a new catcher is a snap for this little gem:"
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Cosmic_Odyssey_TPB_076.jpg

Seriously. When did the thread starter give Hal or Sinestro a chance to analyze Dr. Doom's Cosmic Power Siphon Harness? The ring's AI doesn't have access to the technology either. Show me a scan of a current GL creating constructs that imitate this kind of science and them having no access to a piece of such machinery. Friggin Thanos and Annihilus tried to recreate Dr. Doom's tech and they failed.

At the same time, I won't reverse this on you and suggest that Surfer could simply syntheize Black Hand's little power rod device either. Sure, Black Hand was some schlub human scientist. Clearly not on the level of Dr. Doom. But Silver Surfer doesn't have access to Black hand's or the Manhunter's technology. So unless Darthgoober can show me scans of Silver Surfer creating some exotic tech without having a template to work off of, this idea of Lanterns and Surfer stealing each other's powers by imitating technology they have no access to is ludicrous.

Originally posted by Avlon
I see you stopped mentioning Quasar since we both know the original fight was thrown on Quasars end AND that Quasar has out-absorbed SS anyway. Now you want to disregard other times SS has been jacked easily. Funny how people started mentioning the xover earlier and now nobody has anything to say about it.

And great way to miss the point. I've never claimed that a GL's ring can't be drained, I was just simply showing that SS can be drained as well. The Quasar example you brought up is a great example of it happening too.

And no you haven't claimed that a GL's ring could never be drained. But you're relying on examples of an exiled depowered Surfer being drained of his power or you rely on Dr. Doom's tech draining current Surfer's power. Show me ANY example where a Lantern drained a competent energy wielder of his power or his source of power.

Originally posted by Avlon
Because it has the same chance of working on GL as SS. Iron man did it by manipulating EM energy. Last I remember, there are more characters than Doom and Reed proficient with manipulating such energy. Seems like the simple things go over your head.

As for current Lanterns, they can't even resist being drained by Black Hand or Manhunters. They've never even overloaded Black Hand's device or a Manhunter's battery. Just sucked dry and helpless. It DOES NOT have the same chance. You haven't shown me a single feat where Lanterns absorb or overload competent energy wielders. All things considered equal in the face of this utter absence and failure to provide proof, Surfer has shown not only superior energy absorption feats, but superior energy absorption defense.

Originally posted by Avlon
Speed? Negligible. SS has no real battle feats utilizing it.

Energy absorption? All characters on the field can be drained.

Versatility? All characters are dripping with it.

Strength/Durability? All can amp.

NUMBERS? Work against Surfer.

You can debate SS vs GL or Sinestro seperately all you want. It's a good debate...but vs both Hal and Sinestro? SS gets stomped.

Silver Surfer wins this. Lanterns are not on the same level.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Dropped Quasar? Please don't put words in my mouth. I think it's obvious that Quasar has demonstrated superior energy absorption feats to BOTH Lanterns and Surfer and he still couldn't beat Surfer. Just because you fail to see that energy absorption has failed EVERY time on a post-exile Surfer doesn't require me to beat a dead horse that I have sufficiently rebutted several posts ago. And I never gave a crap about crossovers. Pfft. Photon sucks GL dry? Please.

And no you haven't claimed that a GL's ring could never be drained. But you're relying on examples of an exiled depowered Surfer being drained of his power or you rely on Dr. Doom's tech draining current Surfer's power. Show me ANY example where a Lantern drained a competent energy wielder of his power or his source of power.
No. It doesn't have the same chance. Because you're relying on examples where Surfer was depowered and exiled on Earth. This is current post-Annihilation Surfer, not 1977 schnook Surfer. Anytime someone with tech or with energy absorption powers has tried to drain a post-exiled Surfer without Doom's tech, they've been overloaded or defeated.

As for current Lanterns, they can't even resist being drained by Black Hand or Manhunters. They've never even overloaded Black Hand's device or a Manhunter's battery. Just sucked dry and helpless. It DOES NOT have the same chance. You haven't shown me a single feat where Lanterns absorb or overload competent energy wielders. All things considered equal in the face of this utter absence and failure to provide proof, Surfer has shown not only superior energy absorption feats, but superior energy absorption defense.
Whatever. Surfer has on-panel nanosecond reflexes and can think at FTL super speeds. You haven't shown me a single scan of a Lantern absorbing or defeating/overloading a competent energy wielder. You haven't shown a single scan of superior versatility on a Lantern's part. You haven't shown me a single scan where a GL amps his body's strength or durability. I can put Quasar and classic Genis-Vell against Surfer and numbers won't mean squat.

Silver Surfer wins this. Lanterns are not on the same level.

agreed

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Dropped Quasar? Please don't put words in my mouth. I think it's obvious that Quasar has demonstrated superior energy absorption feats to BOTH Lanterns and Surfer and he still couldn't beat Surfer. Just because you fail to see that energy absorption has failed EVERY time on a post-exile Surfer doesn't require me to beat a dead horse that I have sufficiently rebutted several posts ago. And I never gave a crap about crossovers. Pfft. Photon sucks GL dry? Please.

Perhaps because QUASAR THREW THE FIGHT. There. Glad we got that straightened out. Regardless of how you try and debate with semantics (newers SS is teh immnune nowz!!!) the fact is that it can still be done without really changing anything. Posts of yours and scans have been rebutted, and yet you present the same things as evidence.

Oh, and while SS was less powerful on earth, it doesn't change how his power works.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And no you haven't claimed that a GL's ring could never be drained. But you're relying on examples of an exiled depowered Surfer being drained of his power or you rely on Dr. Doom's tech draining current Surfer's power. Show me ANY example where a Lantern drained a competent energy wielder of his power or his source of power.
No. It doesn't have the same chance. Because you're relying on examples where Surfer was depowered and exiled on Earth. This is current post-Annihilation Surfer, not 1977 schnook Surfer. Anytime someone with tech or with energy absorption powers has tried to drain a post-exiled Surfer without Doom's tech, they've been overloaded or defeated.

Show me where Surfer has been able to drain a lantern of have Manhunter tech ability. Either way, ONCE AGAIN, both SS or GL's can be drained.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As for current Lanterns, they can't even resist being drained by Black Hand or Manhunters. They've never even overloaded Black Hand's device or a Manhunter's battery. Just sucked dry and helpless. It DOES NOT have the same chance. You haven't shown me a single feat where Lanterns absorb or overload competent energy wielders. All things considered equal in the face of this utter absence and failure to provide proof, Surfer has shown not only superior energy absorption feats, but superior energy absorption defense.

Just like SS was nearly instantly drained by BP's device. And with sufficient EM manipulation, his power cosmic can be tapped.

Just because you want to rationalize and ignore, things don't go away.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Whatever. Surfer has on-panel nanosecond reflexes and can think at FTL super speeds. You haven't shown me a single scan of a Lantern absorbing or defeating/overloading a competent energy wielder. You haven't shown a single scan of superior versatility on a Lantern's part. You haven't shown me a single scan where a GL amps his body's strength or durability. I can put Quasar and classic Genis-Vell against Surfer and numbers won't mean squat.

There are respect threads for that. Obviously, I don't have the same amount of time that you do to go scan hunting. The stuff in in there though.

You still haven't proven your case. Running into a laser is NOT a FTL feat. Where are the scans of Surfer fighting FTL or at speeds that GL's can't keep up with. BATTLE SCANS. Not ambiguous scans of SS running into things.

That split surfer scan is something that HAL already dealt with himself.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Silver Surfer wins this. Lanterns are not on the same level.

Once again that's plenty debatable as I could care less who thinks who is superior. You running around crying foul isn't going to change that. I already laid out that numbers do make a difference here.

Sinestro and Hal FTW. Your ridiculous worship of SS won't change that.

avalon, if you could actually come up with a decent counter-argument, rather than laying on the incredulity and insults (thickly, at that), I think this thread would actually improve.

as it stands, ODG is the only one presenting reasoned, evidence based accounts of why and how Surfer is superior to the other two.

just saying that they aren't inferior is not enough, you need evidence and a reasoned scenario of +how+ they might deal with Surfer.