Originally posted by janus77
avalon, if you could actually come up with a decent counter-argument, rather than laying on the incredulity and insults (thickly, at that), I think this thread would actually improve.
Perhaps you should go back and reread amigo. I'm not the one who came in with or started insults.
For instance we may commonly disagree but ive never insulted you or vice versa.
back to the thread topic. points have been made both ways. people will decide regardless. Sin and hal ftw in my opinion.
Originally posted by OualladaThanos cannot strip Heralds of their Power Cosmic though. Which was my point. None of the Heralds have the ability to strip each other of their powers.
Thanos does have access to the PC. As for Annihilus, it is very debatable as to whether Thanos was genuinely helping him, or simply feeding him scraps of information.
Avlon, you've got nothin. Your retorts have been reduced to blanket statements of ridicule and telling me to go to the respect thread for non-existent threads. I've been to the respect thread. I daresay, I've read it far more than you. Where do you think I get a lot of my GL scans or information from? You can't prove Lanterns could replicate Dr. Doom's tech without having prior access. I gave you my reasoning and showed you a scan where a GL needed to analyze a machine before being able to replicate it.
The whole "they can drain each other equally" argument is simple reductionist nonsense. Your motive is quite transparently clear. You wish to simplify this battle, rather than discuss context and nuance. You want to reduce it to "two competent energy wielders who can drain vs. one competent energy wielder who can drain." No thanks.
Fact of the matter is, not a single Lantern proponent has produced a single scan of a current Lantern absorbing or usurping a competent energy wielder of their energies. There isn't a single example. As has been already posted and referenced, Surfer has superior energy absorption feats from competent energy wielders. You want to use circumstantial evidence of people draining an exiled depowered Surfer or used specialized tech on a current Surfer. But you turn right around and demand that I recognize that Manhunters have specialized technology as well. That's hypocrisy. You even ignore how a post-exiled current Surfer has either beaten a superior energy absorber (by his own clear on-panel admission) or downright overloaded all other energy absorbers.
Since you're so keen on insinuating some false weakness in my arguments when I supposedly dodge or not mention points. I have no problem pointing out how you ignored ENTIRE posts of mine. You completely ignored, and thus under your reasoning must have conceded all of responses to Raoul about pre-Crisis continuity. You must also then have conceded the first portion of my last two-part rebuttal of your arguments. Maybe I can mention how you've dropped the whole classic Dr. Strange nullification sphere rebuttal I posited. Pretty funny how you can't even bring yourself to mention Black Hand at all.
Being drained by some schnook's power rod, whose name is Black Hand, and being unable to resist it at all is a hella lot worse than being drained by Black Panther with a ripoff of Dr. Doom's Power Cosmic Siphon Harness. Hell that technology completely stole Aron the Watcher's power and Hyperstorm's power. It was beastly. After your last few responses, I'd assumed you were sufficiently pressed by my reasonable requests to produce actual on-panel proof of your assertions. But you've failed to do so. I could insinuate that you're just being stubborn and can't stand admitting that you have nothing. At best, you were just plain misinformed and worked off of third-hand accounts.
1. "Show me a scan where a Lantern was able to create plasma construct imitations of technology or create/transmute such technology without guidance or prior access to or prior analysis of such technology."
2. "Show me scans where a Lantern usurped or at least absorbed a competent energy wielder's energies."
3. "Show me scan where a Lantern either beat or overloaded a competent energy wielder's efforts or technology."
I've already posted contradictory evidence against 1 and 3. I've already provided scans and references for Surfer for 2. You've done nothing. Until then, the last two responses of yours can be characterized as pure dodging and insubstantial diatribe nonsense. And I'll mention again how nobody's posted a single current Lantern feat that could be considered equal or superior to Surfer's best. I still invite anybody to do so. Until then, anybody can feel free to post their conclusions. But if you want to engage in actual debate, put up or shut up. Silver Surfer wins. Neither Hal, nor Sinestro have done anything to be on his level.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
1. "Show me a scan where a Lantern was able to create plasma construct imitations of technology or create/transmute such technology without guidance or prior access to or prior analysis of such technology."
In Morrison's JLA run Kyle created a construct that disrupted the physical stability of attacking angels. Hal created a medical lab for Cowgirl. Salaak uses his ring to create a complete computer systems for himself that brings him data from all GLs and the Guardians, there's likely nothing to copy for that.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're damn straight I'm referring to you if you think the logic washes. You're asking me for proof? That's what I should be asking you! I'm just applying the rule of pre-Crisis continuity being separate from current continuity. Hal retains his memories of pre-Crisis continuity. That's it. What do you mean, "the lanterns weren't altered that much by the crisis at all?" Since the original Crisis, ALL Green Lanterns have been consistently depicted as having FAR less power and versatility than pre-Crisis Green Lanterns. Indeed, in current continuity there is contradictory evidence that Green Lanterns could even perform pre-Crisis level feats. Let's take time-travel for instance.Pre-Crisis Hal has time-travelled with ease several times. You've seen the scans in the respect thread, I'm sure. After the Crisis, not a single Green Lantern has travelled through time using their ring. Indeed, here we see Hal, as Parallax (hereafter referred to as Hallax), stating he had to take time to refocus his energies JUST so he could slip into the timestream. Then he used the energy anomalies to travel to the end of time:
http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9km8.jpgThat's a pretty damn stark contrast, if not outright contradiction when Hallax, possessed of the entire Power of the Guardians drained from the Central Power Battery, had to find a roundabout way to time-travel as opposed to pre-Crisis Hal, who could do the same with a normal ring and zip back and forth through time as easily as you or I walk through the door.
Green Lanterns are the exception to the Crisis? It doesn't wash. Kara is from Earth-2, so what? She remembers all her adventures with PC Superman (or Superman-2), they happened to her pre-Crisis. Her origin is still the same. But she's exhibited FAR less power than what she exhibited pre-Crisis. What's the difference between her and Hal? Somehow, you decided that this exception became the rule? No thanks. What other DC characters do you think retain their pre-Crisis continuity?
nobody said you had to like it... and calm the f*ck down, please.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't get it, why do people assume that Pre Crisis GL feats are valid just because the GL's "remember" things from the PC era? Even directly following COIE several DC characters still remembered and referenced events from Pre Crisis stories but we've never credited them with PC feats to my knowledge 😬 .
i never said all feats were valid, i'm saying that not all feats can be discarded...
Originally posted by Raoul
i never said all feats were valid, i'm saying that not all feats can be discarded...
So we credit Despero and Batman with Pre-Crisis feats just because they remember and talk about encounters with each other...
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8778/16px8.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4273/18cv7.jpg
And lets not forget about this instance of the entire Justice League chit chatting about taking down Big Ox Pre-Crisis...
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/204/jlav124612jn8.jpg
Point being, LOTS of characters have ALWAYS remembered events from the Pre-Crisis era but we have never paid them any mind, so why should GL's be any different?
Originally posted by darthgoober
But why can't they be discarded? Have we credited J'ohn with ANY of his Pre-Crisis feats just because he remembers and references Detective Comics #225...
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/1614/jlav124618fk5.jpgSo we credit Despero and Batman with Pre-Crisis feats just because they remember and talk about encounters with each other...
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/8778/16px8.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4273/18cv7.jpgAnd lets not forget about this instance of the entire Justice League chit chatting about taking down Big Ox Pre-Crisis...
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/204/jlav124612jn8.jpgPoint being, LOTS of characters have ALWAYS remembered events from the Pre-Crisis era but we have never paid them any mind, so why should GL's be any different?
lots of characters havent displayed any considerable gap in their power levels post crisis either...
so because they havent pulled off some of their pre crisis feats post crisis, they can't?
i'm not talking about batman, or despero, i'm talking about the lanterns... and even if we were, plenty of batman stuff could be attributed to him from his pre crisis days...
Originally posted by illadelph12
pigfight
😛
Originally posted by Raoul
lots of characters havent displayed any considerable gap in their power levels post crisis either...so because they havent pulled off some of their pre crisis feats post crisis, they can't?
i'm not talking about batman, or despero, i'm talking about the lanterns... and even if we were, plenty of batman stuff could be attributed to him from his pre crisis days...
The point is that just because something reasonable happens out of continuity doesn't make it useable on a debate.
Raoul, I won't use the word "damned" anymore when I reply to your posts. In turn, please don't use the word f*cked when you reply to mine. 😂 I agree with you. All feats shouldn't be discarded. Only those feats that are contradicted by current continuity's portrayal of Lantern limits and versatility. Exactly as we do for other pre-Crisis and current incarnations.
Originally posted by Symmetric ChaosShow me the scan or give me issue number or storyline name of Kyle creating a construct disrupting angel's physical stability. I'm interested in seeing it.
In Morrison's JLA run Kyle created a construct that disrupted the physical stability of attacking angels. Hal created a medical lab for Cowgirl. Salaak uses his ring to create a complete computer systems for himself that brings him data from all GLs and the Guardians, there's likely nothing to copy for that.
Medical lab? Hal makes a plasma construct imitation of a bed, ICU unit and a fake doctor. He asks the ring to scan for vitals, puts her on the bed and it replies her vitals are stable. That's it. I'm pretty sure Hal's been to ICU units before:
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/GLICunit.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/GLICunit2.jpg
Salaak almost always works on Oa. He already has prior intimate knowledge of Oan computer systems, technology and it's databases. Of course he could link himself up to it with plasma constructs imitating computer systems. Let me be more clear:
"Show me a scan where a Lantern was able to create plasma construct imitations of technology or create/transmute such technology without guidance or prior access to or prior analysis of such technology."
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Raoul, I won't use the word "damned" anymore when I reply to your posts. In turn, please don't use the word f*cked when you reply to mine. 😂 I agree with you. All feats shouldn't be discarded. Only those feats that are contradicted by current continuity's portrayal of Lantern limits and versatility. Exactly as we do for other pre-Crisis and current incarnations.
it wasn't the 'damned' part i had a problem with...
Originally posted by OneDumbG0You have a problem with these words?
^ Well then I won't respond to you anymore about pre-Crisis continuity. I still have a problem with the word f*cked. Your choice whether to respect my wishes or not.
1. fen-sucked
2. fen sucked
3. finch backed
4. flecked
5. flicked
6. flocked
7. frocked
8. frolicked
Originally posted by Creshosk
You have a problem with these words?1. fen-sucked
2. fen sucked
3. finch backed
4. flecked
5. flicked
6. flocked
7. frocked
8. frolicked(the asterisk is used as a wild card search in search engines. These are the results that are returned from this one search engine.)
Jokes fall flat when you have to explain them.
