After reviewing the arguments, I actually agree with Smurph & B-Dub. The ship (Plex) was actually used as his base of operations in his mini series. He was a prisoner in The Cube before taking it over in Illuminatti #4, so it wasn't his actual base of operations as much as his place of confinement until he was set free by the Avengers.
So (Smurph/B-Dub) you'd have access to The Ship but not to The Cube.
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...the precedent that was set when I asked about it was that Tony used Stark Tower more often than anywhere else. The function of the facility should be irrelevant but the time spent there should be more an issue.
As it pertains to Marvel Boy, what I've gotten from the discussion is that the ship was also a temporary accommodation, miniseries or not, and that he doesn't actually have a concrete base. I'm sure Blair and Smurph will have no qualms using feats from after his minseries, so why should we be able to break from that and choose time-specific prep sites that were temporary? Doesn't make sense to me, and actually seems like a bit of a double-standard with allowing feats from any era but selecting a specific time for a prep site.
My decision is consistent with my previous ruling and the wording of the rule which has been posted since the onset of the tourney discussion process.
The Cube was Marvel Boy's place of imprisonment until Illuminati #4, it was not his base. His most used base of operations in his short existence was Plex.
Ironman's situation is not parallel to this. Ironman, as a member of various teams, has various bases of operation, and thus the rule on prep areas, which is access to the base which was used most prevalently when the character is operating as a solo character, Stark Industries/Tower, (in line with the Batman/Batcave rather than Watchtower example) would be Ironman's default prep area.
In this case I have a problem with the Supreme Intelligence that is the brain of the ship, it is essentially alive and very much a sentient character.
As I understand it we don't have any outside help during prep ... If Quicksilver couldn't have Vision help him during prep then Noh-Varr should not get the Supreme Intelligence AI that runs the ship.
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/plexintelligencemb.htm
Access to the ships weapons/supplies is one thing, having a version of the Supreme Intelligence is another matter entirely.
Per the rule you get access to the database at the prep area. Other than providing information, Plex's core can not really provide much in this scenario, particularly since vehicles are not allowed in combat. Noh Varr just happens to have a really smart and versatile computer at his prep site which can not be brought into combat per rule. It's a non issue.
It's not the actual Supreme Intelligence, it's the computer core of the ship which uses the SI's appearance for it's visual interface. You're exagerating the issue a bit man. Plex can not be brought into battle per rule. All Plex can do is provide intel and assistance during prep as any other AI/automated base of operations can, be it the Danger Room, HOMER, Cerebra, etc.
Originally posted by illadelph12
It's not the actual Supreme Intelligence
It's not the 616 SI, but it is an SI:
The Plex Supreme Intelligence system was standard on all Kree diplomatic vessels of Noh-Varr's home reality. It was a programmable piezoplasm housing the accumulated wisdombase of the entire Kree race
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/newreply.php?s=&action=newreply&postid=11016704
The only difference between it and any other SI seen thus far shown in 616 Marvel is that it's from a different dimension.
It is an additional character.
No, I believe you are mistaken in this case Scoob. The Plex is the standard computer system on the Kree Ships in Noh Varr's native universe. It's akin, in function, to the Xandarian Worldmind of the Nova Corps. It's not Supremor, it just uses his appearance as a visual interface. Noh Varr's version is nothing more than the computer core of the ship with access to it's systems. It says as much in the bio quote you just posted.
Originally posted by illadelph12
My decision is consistent with my previous ruling and the wording of the rule which has been posted since the onset of the tourney discussion process.The Cube was Marvel Boy's place of imprisonment until Illuminati #4, it was not his base. His most used base of operations in his short existence was Plex.
Ironman's situation is not parallel to this. Ironman, as a member of various teams, has various bases of operation, and thus the rule on prep areas, which is access to the base which was used most prevalently when the character is operating as a solo character, Stark Industries/Tower, (in line with the Batman/Batcave rather than Watchtower example) would be Ironman's default prep area.
Which does nothing to allay my concerns about a time-specific prep site, while still being able to use any and all feats from the character's history.
I'm fine with, say, current or classic versions of a character. But picking and choosing issues to use various aspects of a character is suspect, at best. Hell, the Plex doesn't even have 10 issues to its name. Should I motion for it to be banned for such reasons, or are we skirting that as well?
This is why prep needed to be eliminated anyway. Exit debate, enter prep insanity, if I'm seeing Scoob's posts correctly and gauging Blair/Smurph's creativity correctly. I'll do what I need to in order to compete, but meh to this whole development.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Which does nothing to allay my concerns about a time-specific prep site, while still being able to use any and all feats from the character's history.I'm fine with, say, current or classic versions of a character. But picking and choosing issues to use various aspects of a character is suspect, at best. Hell, the Plex doesn't even have 10 issues to its name. Should I motion for it to be banned for such reasons, or are we skirting that as well?
This is why prep needed to be eliminated anyway. Exit debate, enter prep insanity, if I'm seeing Scoob's posts correctly and gauging Blair/Smurph's creativity correctly. I'll do what I need to in order to compete, but meh to this whole development.
Also, fyi, I'm using Minion's full feat-set, but using AIM HQ as a base from when he was first created, since he had it as a base for a good 4-5 issues before breaking away from them. I assume that's acceptable? Also MM when he was an Avenger for like 2 seconds. And Sinister's lab when he was working under Apocalypse in AoA. Can't think of better "bases" for any of them (maybe the Savage Land for Sinister), so we should be good to go.
Originally posted by DigiMark007This is how the tourney worked last year, and there have never been any new additions to the rule... the issues about the Plex not appearing in an issue and getting taking over by bad guys in another issue is completely irrelevant. If we don't see the Batcave for a whole issue, we still know it's Batman's base of ops.
Which does nothing to allay my concerns about a time-specific prep site, while still being able to use any and all feats from the character's history.I'm fine with, say, current or classic versions of a character. But picking and choosing issues to use various aspects of a character is suspect, at best. Hell, the Plex doesn't even have 10 issues to its name. Should I motion for it to be banned for such reasons, or are we skirting that as well?
This is why prep needed to be eliminated anyway. Exit debate, enter prep insanity, if I'm seeing Scoob's posts correctly and gauging Blair/Smurph's creativity correctly. I'll do what I need to in order to compete, but meh to this whole development.
The fact is, it was central to Noh Varr's character for way longer than the Cube has been.
We really have nothing to even base Noh Varr using the cube other than one comment at the end of a civil war tie in.
I talked it over with Blair, and this is really our stance:
Noh Varr has NEVER, on panel, used the Cube as a base of ops.
He has been kept a prisoner there for a number of issues.
Then he defeated his captors, and said that he thought he would turn it into a new city.
But we've never seen him, despite that comment, even in his post-Civil War and Cube appearances, use that base.
The only base that he has used as his base of ops in his entire existence, is the Plex ship.
Delph has always said that characters must use their Historical Base of Ops.
He's historically only used one, and has used the resources from it, communicated with the central processor and used it as a center for him to learn and recuperate.
All characters should be using what was historically their biggest and most classic base of operations.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Which does nothing to allay my concerns about a time-specific prep site, while still being able to use any and all feats from the character's history.I'm fine with, say, current or classic versions of a character. But picking and choosing issues to use various aspects of a character is suspect, at best. Hell, the Plex doesn't even have 10 issues to its name. Should I motion for it to be banned for such reasons, or are we skirting that as well?
This is why prep needed to be eliminated anyway. Exit debate, enter prep insanity, if I'm seeing Scoob's posts correctly and gauging Blair/Smurph's creativity correctly. I'll do what I need to in order to compete, but meh to this whole development.
That's not the issue as far as I'm concerned. The character makes the appearance quota (just barely at 12 appearances), the issue is whether to consider the prison in which the character was confined in as his base of operations due to his subsequent takeover of the facility when the Avengers set him free, or the base that he used in his solo run before his imprisonment. It's not a matter of time specific bases, it's a matter of which base was actually used as a base of operations more often for the character. In the case of Noh Varr, it was Plex due to The Prison only being his base as of Illuminati #4, and he subsequently leaves it in Secret Invasion when the Skrulls infect it with a computer virus and disable it.
Also, this is not a matter of current or classic versions of a character, this is a matter of a new character with minimal appearances and a short character history to work with.
The appearance cap is on characters, not prep areas. Prep areas are based on prevalence of historical use in a character's solo career.
Plex is legal, as is any other automated base.
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Also, fyi, I'm using Minion's full feat-set, but using AIM HQ as a base from when he was first created, since he had it as a base for a good 4-5 issues before breaking away from them. I assume that's acceptable? Also MM when he was an Avenger for like 2 seconds. And Sinister's lab when he was working under Apocalypse in AoA. Can't think of better "bases" for any of them (maybe the Savage Land for Sinister), so we should be good to go.
Was this really necessary Digi?
Digi:
Plex was his base.
The Cube was his PRISON. He was nothing more than a prisoner. He was locked in a "cell", and kept there, used on occasion by the Director of the Cube. He took it over recently, but on panel we have seen nothing of what he has done.
In six issues he uses Plex, in about 4 issues he's a prisoner, and in two he gets out of the cube before the Skrulls take over. Plex wins
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Digi:Plex was his base.
Emphasis added. My point stands. As far as I'm concerned, he shouldn't have a base at all. Not every character does.
Originally posted by illadelph12
Was this really necessary Digi?
Pretty much. Sarcastic, clearly. But also serious. I expect to use at least one of those before tourney's end, and hadn't actually considered it until this ruling. But I figured I'd post it, half assuming that my characters didn't qualify however Marvel Boy managed to.
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Per Rules:
Originally posted by illadelph12
6. Prep: Prep is allowed. You get 10 (ten) minutes of prep per match at a member of your team's historical base of operations.
Prevalent Historical Base. Look up the word historical. In fact I'll do it for you:
his·tor·i·cal
Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hi-stawr-i-kuhl, -stor-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. of, pertaining to, treating, or characteristic of history or past events: historical records; historical research.
It also happens to be the base he used for the majority of his showings. It fulfills both criteria (historically used meaning in his past and for the majority of his showings) that characters for this tournament for prep bases, as I have been told, need to fulfill.
Insert a quarter, try again