Codename 47 vs Bob Lee Swagger

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Yeah, I do that. Sure. 🙄

I know you knew all along.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

I was talking about real life sniper rifles, and that any sniper, one in his right mind, that is, is not gonna stretch that limit, ESPECIALLY 47.

Don't lie. You said you believed no sniper had that range.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
47 shot from 1.86 miles away? Yeah, thats real accurate. Even .50 cal's cant shoot that far, I believe.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
A .22 round can travel over a mile, but that doesn't mean it will strike with the same energy it would at 100 feet.

So, whats your point? A round shot over any distance won't have the same energy it would compared to when it leaves the barrel.
Doesn't make a shot that is beyond a rifle's effective range impossible at all.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Robtards idea, not mine. And since it has been established that Swagger is also "An expert in every aspect of combat", yes, it would be to his advantage. He would scout the city and pick and choose where to fight. Yes, he is shown doing this in the movie, scouting out EVERY possible sniping scenario and planning it out, so he could indeed plan AROUND it.

Why are blabbering on about irrelevant stuff. I didn't say Swagger wouldn't scout and pick a good spot. I said you saying Swagger would hide in a park thinking that it would be advantageous for him is stupid and shows you don't know anything about sniping.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So it's agreed that Swagger AND 47 would avoid placing themselves in the crosshairs of a sniper rifle then? Good.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

BTW: What does any of your rant have to do with Swagger versus 47?

You making false claims.

Oh I know, and I will be accused of knowing nothing of sniping, because I am saying that snipers will avoid being sniped .

Like I said, thats not the reason you are accused of knowing nothing, rather the real reasons are stated above in this post and the previous post.

Originally posted by Placidity

Don't lie. You said you believed no sniper had that range.

So, whats your point? A round shot over any distance won't have the same energy it would compared to when it leaves the barrel.
Doesn't make a shot that is beyond a rifle's effective range impossible at all.

I ask you again, what it your definition of "Effective range?"

Why are blabbering on about irrelevant stuff. I didn't say Swagger wouldn't scout and pick a good spot. I said you saying Swagger would hide in a park thinking that it would be advantageous for him is stupid and shows you don't know anything about sniping.

They would try, yes.

You making false claims.

Like I said, thats not the reason you are accused of knowing nothing, rather the real reasons are stated above in this post and the previous post.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
REAL LIFE sniper rifles.

Thats right, real life snipers have over 4km range. This has been pointed out to you (with evidence) on numerous occasions now. Still can't accept reality?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

Let me try this another way. You do know that when a bullet is fired from a gun, any gun, after a certain distance it starts to lose it's velocity and drop, dont you?

Um... do you read?

So, whats your point? A round shot over any distance won't have the same energy it would compared to when it leaves the barrel.
Doesn't make a shot that is beyond a rifle's effective range impossible at all.

Don't lecture me on science, you'll get owned even harder.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi

I ask you again, what it your definition of "Effective range?"

Again? Show me the first time.

In fact, I'm pretty sure you don't know the definition.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Then please, educate me with your wisdom. Tell me all about sniping.

First admit you know much less about snipers and sniping than you pretend to.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And probably succeed in not becoming a target. This is what they do, they snipe, they kill, they are sure to know what to do in order to avoid being sniped, at any distance.

Definately a possibility. But this wasn't your orginal point. You said Swagger would snipe 47 from a park.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I see a whole lot of you telling me I know nothing, but I see nothing of your self proclaimed knowledge of sniping and combat training.

Tell me where I've done any "self proclaiming". I just know enough (evidently more than you) to know a bullshiter when I see one.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You guys seem certain it will boil down to a sniper battle. And when we were talking about it being a sniper battle before, the idea of 47 allowing himself to become a target was just crazy. Now, you think Swagger will allow himself to become a target, especially when he knows 47 has a rifle that can shoot that far?

No...Neither combatant will allow that, or at least they will take every precaution possible to avoid showing themselves in the other's crosshairs. Both are trained snipers, so they will know how to avoid being hit by sniper fire.

47 can shoot farther, but one thing is being overlooked. Swagger was shown scouting three cities for every possible long range sniper shot, remember? It's safe to say he will do the same here, scout Philly over the three days, learn all the angles, plan his attack. Not saying 47 wouldn't do the same, neither of them are idiots, but we are shown Swagger doing this, remember?

This is going to come down to a small arms battle, plain and simple.

I'm not in any way trying to boil it down to a sniper battle, just making a observation on the Claim from you if I recall correctly that said that Swagger would win and that no Weapon existed that could deliver a kill at four kilometers, Now I know this Sniper didn't produce that result either but he made a kill 500 yds + of what his Sniper should be capable of. Have I in any way said that I think Swagger ore 47 for that matter will allow themselves to become a target? If I recall correctly I haven't, I'm just mentioning that sniping, which you brought up very earlie in the debate will not be optimal choice for Swagger against a person that is better in that aspect then himself.

Exactly, so why are you asking me about it? The main part of this discussion have, from my point of view, never been above Swagger ore 47 stepping into the crossair, but 47 range that you wasn't eager to accept as fact.

Swagger is shown during it correct, however 47 (for all we know) planned and executed two kills from four kilometers away, with less then a day, he was contacted in the evening and the next day (it appears that way) Belikov was killed in public. When you have a greater Range you also have a greater planning scenario to work with. But given that both has intel on each other I think that Swagger will stay out of Sniping with 47, he has his intel and that intel says that 47 can deliver a bullet from four kilometers away, now if I where Swagger and I found the assignment to deliver a bullet at 1 mile tough, I would really hate to go up against a guy that can shoot twice the range I can.

Small firearms like? Handguns, SMG, armed assault rifles?

edit

Originally posted by Placidity
Thats right, real life snipers have over 4km range. This has been pointed out to you (with evidence) on numerous occasions now. Still can't accept reality?

Um... do you read?

Don't lecture me on science, you'll get owned even harder.

Again? Show me the first time.

In fact, I'm pretty sure you don't know the definition.

First admit you know much less about snipers and sniping than you pretend to.

Definately a possibility. But this wasn't your orginal point. You said Swagger would snipe 47 from a park.

Tell me where I've done any "self proclaiming". I just know enough (evidently more than you) to know a bullshiter when I see one.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Tell me this, when 47 shot the Russian from 4 km out, where were the crosshairs of his rifle centered?

Don't know why you quoted me ...

You asking me in the movie or in real life?

Don't remember in the movie, probably centered on the forehead.

In real life, the crosshairs would be much higher. Exactly where? Who knows, only a assassin of 47's caliber would be able to pull off the shot.

Are you trying to go back to disproving something in the movie with real-life physics? Thought we were over that ? (also a no-no according to the new rules)

Originally posted by Utrigita
I'm not in any way trying to boil it down to a sniper battle, just making a observation on the Claim from you if I recall correctly that said that Swagger would win and that no Weapon existed that could deliver a kill at four kilometers, Now I know this Sniper didn't produce that result either but he made a kill 500 yds + of what his Sniper should be capable of. Have I in any way said that I think Swagger ore 47 for that matter will allow themselves to become a target? If I recall correctly I haven't, I'm just mentioning that sniping, which you brought up very earlie in the debate will not be optimal choice for Swagger against a person that is better in that aspect then himself.

I never saw Swagger take on 100 men and inflict 70% casualties. I never saw Swagger take on 28 highly trained mercs and count them off one by one as he killed them.

BUT it is said he did this, not to mention taking out two helicopters, AND it is mentioned that he is "the best." AND form what we have seen Swagger do, yes, he is, as 47 is depicted to be, "an expert in every aspect of combat."

Exactly, so why are you asking me about it? The main part of this discussion have, from my point of view, never been above Swagger ore 47 stepping into the crossair, but 47 range that you wasn't eager to accept as fact.['quote]I have accepted it and I am glad I did, because it goes to show that Swagger is a more efficient killer, due to the fact that he has taken on the number of men that he has.

[quote]Swagger is shown during it correct, however 47 (for all we know) planned and executed two kills from four kilometers away, with less then a day, he was contacted in the evening and the next day (it appears that way) Belikov was killed in public. When you have a greater Range you also have a greater planning scenario to work with. But given that both has intel on each other I think that Swagger will stay out of Sniping with 47, he has his intel and that intel says that 47 can deliver a bullet from four kilometers away, now if I where Swagger and I found the assignment to deliver a bullet at 1 mile tough, I would really hate to go up against a guy that can shoot twice the range I can.

Small firearms like? Handguns, SMG, armed assault rifles?

So you claim it's impossible for a person to shoot 4 kilometers with a sniper rifle?

You didn't neither did I but I accept it, as for the 28 mercs was that when he inflitrated the home of that other crippled sniper?

That is impressive and according to the movie he is the best sniper, I think that is what is implied not the all around best, since they where talking about sniping.

I doesn't normally read other peoples debates, when I'm fully engaged in one myself, I however normally read what is directly above me, if it interest me, I find the beginning of the debate and read it.

Okay, imo 47 still wins.

Originally posted by Placidity
Don't know why you quoted me ...

You asking me in the movie or in real life?

Don't remember in the movie, probably centered on the forehead.

In real life, the crosshairs would be much higher. Exactly where? Who knows, only a assassin of 47's caliber would be able to pull off the shot.

Are you trying to go back to disproving something in the movie with real-life physics? Thought we were over that ? (also a no-no according to the new rules)

The crosshairs are centered on the center of the forehead, I just watched that scene.

Actually, real life scopes can be adjusted so that even though the crosshairs are where you want the bullet to go, it is actually shooting a small deal/great deal higher.

For example, if 47 was sniping someone at 50 yards, he would have the scope adjusted dead center. But as the bullet travels it loses steam, it drops, and the sniper is forced to adjust. Two clicks here, three clicks there, etc;

Now, 47, as well trained as he is, knows the distance to be out of effective range, so he obviously adjusted his scope. Swagger is shown doing the calculations in Shooter, making the calculations and adjusting his scope, the same way 47 must have.

Question: If this is how it is done, how does the fact that 47's shot was made from 4 km out make him a better sniper? Surely Swagger, if using the rifle 47 had, can make the same adjustment and make the same shot.

Point is, 47 has a superior rifle, and that he is not a superior sniper.

^ Yea, someone else claiming another person is the "best" is more opinion than fact. I mean theres no measure for it, unlike a sport world champion for example.

^Point is that Swagger found it difficult next to impossible etc to make a shot from a mile, 47 Just (if we go by the movie) does it. That makes 47 a superior sniper, also you said you are going by the new rules this doesn't sound a bit like it, for all we know a one mile shot is what Swagger is capable of because he hasn't demonstrated that he has the ability to deliver a shot beyond that range.

Originally posted by Utrigita
So you claim it's impossible for a person to shoot 4 kilometers with a sniper rifle?

You didn't neither did I but I accept it, as for the 28 mercs was that when he inflitrated the home of that other crippled sniper?

That is impressive, he is the best sniper, I think that is what is implied not the all around best, since they where talking about sniping.

I doesn't normally see other peoples debates.

Okay, imo 47 still wins.

In the beginning, when Donnie is killed, Swagger takes on 100 soldiers and kills 70. In the scene where he visits the crippled Russian, he takes out 4 guards, then 24 mercs and a helicopter.

Yeah, he's the best, 47 never did anything close to this. It is stated AND we can see it.

Originally posted by Placidity
^ Yea, someone else claiming another person is the "best" is more opinion than fact. I mean theres no measure for it, unlike a sport world champion for example.

Originally posted by Utrigita
^Point is that Swagger found it difficult next to impossible etc to make a shot from a mile, 47 Just (if we go by the movie) does it. That makes 47 a superior sniper, also you said you are going by the new rules this doesn't sound a bit like it, for all we know a one mile shot is what Swagger is capable of because he hasn't demonstrated that he has the ability to deliver a shot beyond that range.

Originally posted by Utrigita
also you said you are going by the new rules this doesn't sound a bit like it, .

If that were the case, then anyone can make a 4 km shot.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I am saying that no sniper in his right mind is gonna take a shot that long, thats all.

In the beginning, when Donnie is killed, Swagger takes on 100 soldiers and kills 70. In the scene where he visits the crippled Russian, he takes out 4 guards, then 24 mercs and a helicopter.

Yeah, he's the best, 47 never did anything close to this. It is stated AND we can see it.

I didn't think that a Sniper in his right mind, could fire a bullet over a mile exceding the effective range of the sniper he was using yet he did it.

Is it stated that it was a hundred men? Lets not forget the facts concerning his visit at the crippled russian and his fight with them, he prepares indept for the confrontation traines the FBI agent to snipe and make pipeboms etc. The four guards pale in comparison to 47 taking out three assasins that is trained from birth like himself.

For sniping, if I remember correctly, they doesn't imply all around but simply sniping. No 47 never shot down two choppers, which no sniper in his right mind would even try to engage.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I beg to differ. I am merely saying that 47 didn't just pick up his rifle, center the crosshairs on the Russians forehead, and squeeze the trigger.

If that were the case, then anyone can make a 4 km shot.

It looks like it, again superior sniping skill.

No it isn't 🙂

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, I have accepted the new rules, no problem there.

The crosshairs are centered on the center of the forehead, I just watched that scene.

Actually, real life scopes can be adjusted so that even though the crosshairs are where you want the bullet to go, it is actually shooting a small deal/great deal higher.

For example, if 47 was sniping someone at 50 yards, he would have the scope adjusted dead center. But as the bullet travels it loses steam, it drops, and the sniper is forced to adjust. Two clicks here, three clicks there, etc;

Now, 47, as well trained as he is, knows the distance to be out of effective range, so he obviously adjusted his scope. Swagger is shown doing the calculations in Shooter, making the calculations and adjusting his scope, the same way 47 must have.

Question: If this is how it is done, how does the fact that 47's shot was made from 4 km out make him a better sniper? Surely Swagger, if using the rifle 47 had, can make the same adjustment and make the same shot.

Point is, 47 has a superior rifle, and that he is not a superior sniper.

Thats Complete balooney (sp?). What you said about adjusting the scope is true, but one still has to compensate by aiming above the head. 47 knows exactly how to compensate for a 4km shot, he has enough skill and experience to predict the trajectory of the bullet. At 4km, lots of shit can happen, mainly wind, air resistance and obviously gravity. The fact that 47 makes a 4km shot is much more than just the distance.

Also, now that you've brought this up, Swagger had a spotter doing all his calculations and other crap. 47 does all that in his head, which is again shows he is superior.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So any idiot can pick up a sniper rifle, center the crosshairs on a target, and execute?

Did I say that? No I said that you trying to compare the two relevant situations isn't logical, again one for all we know just does is (again a testemony to him being the very best of the assasins) the Other finds a one mile shot difficult and have to make various calculation for the shoot, there is the difference.