Ryu vs Cloud Strife

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

2. canon ken's strongest shoryuken is a shoryuken which his fist engulfed by a flame. so, it's different. and I doubt it's stronger than ken's strongest shoryuken in anime.

No, his Strongest Shoryuken is a Super art and how his flame Shoryuken not stronger if it scorches?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

3. that's why I'm saying SFA the movie is full of bullshit. in SF4 trailer, gouki's hadouken is nowhere near skyscraper buster. the only thing left after he shot shakunetsu hadouken is an explosion which isn't that big and a small hole.

Those are warning shots, why else would he miss and proceed to talk to Ryu? Watch the trailer again in Subs and you will see him taunting Ryu to use his power. Evil Ryu on the other hand completely let loose with full intent to kill no matter what. So, how can you even compare them?

YouTube video

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

and those energy shows how powerful ken's shoryuken is. he concentrate and focused every of his energy into one strike. sadly, it's only dislocated cyborg's jaw. I'm laughing every time I'm watching that scene...

Which is why anime Ken is weaker.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

4. watch ken's ending when he shoryuken an unnamed character in a fight.

Alright, but it doesn't change what I said about him being weaker.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

5. so I guess shakunetsu and denjin is similar to kyo's punch while engulfed by a flame and benimaru's raiko-ken. but as I said before, it will be a well landed kick unless capcom stated ryu's hadouken randomly disintegrate people by manipulating his ki.

Shakunetsu is not fire though, it's heat. It may resemble fire because of it's appearence, but then again Hadou energy ressembles fire in general. The word Shakunetsu mean Incandescent, which means the projectile is a hot fireball. There is no fire in the projectile [Other than in a recycled gameplay animation], it's just hot. It will always feel the like the same, but if it has heat it will just be hot as well as feeling like a well landed kick. Are you saying that Shakunetsu doesn't feel like a well landed kick because it's hot?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

and unless you're the one who created hadouken for ryu, stop speculating about how ryu's hadouken work.

And, stop telling people to divide by zero. Most matches in versus are all speculation since they never happen canonically. So, why can't I speculate on how his powers work like how we all speculate on who wins, especially when there is evidence to support that claim? If that's the case why even speculate who would win in a versus since "We didn't make the games." Also, didn't you speculate through this match like when you claimed that Ryu learns Shinkuu Hadouken at the end of alpha or That Anme Kens Shoryuken is stronger? Why is that Ok and other speculation is not?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

even if this isn't regular ryu, his hadouken is still comparable to gouki's hadouken. so I guess it isn't that powerful.

What about the fact that Gouki's attacks kill, how does that not facotr in the properties?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

6. speculation only. did you see that cyborg burned? did you see even a small pieces of fire burn that cyborg? I guess not. and how many times I should tell you SFA anime isn't canon so stop using it as a reference.

When did I ever say it's canon, do you just decide what is canon or what is not based on what suites you? Once again Capcom states that it is accurate in it's portrayal of the movies not story. Second of all it incinerated because it has heat, it doesn't need fire.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

and so what with his red and purple ki? can you differentiate flame's color with a real red color? any hadouken which create fire is shakunetsu. nothing more, nothing else.

Wrong, Messatsu Gouhadou has fire at the last hit so does Evil Ryu's Shinkuu. While the first hits do not burn at all which further supports what I said about him heating it up at the climax.

YouTube video

so hmm what is the census?

hah, while Kazuya and Hachi were breaking cyborgs in half with their regular blows, ken can only crack a cyborg's jaw with his strongest move.

Tekken>>SF 😄

Also, the majority of the projectile descriptions are from SF2. There more up to date descriptions like the ones from SFZ:

As a side note, the majority of these projectile descriptions, all provided initially by Saiki, are verified by the SF2 Official Fanbook. Zero series projectiles still need their info tracked down if possible.

I mean't Gouki Messatsu Gouhadou and Evil Ryu Shinkuu Hadouken have heat at the end not fire.

Originally posted by Superboy Prime
so hmm what is the census?

That Cloud can beat Ryu

Originally posted by Classic NES
No, his Strongest Shoryuken is a Super art and how his flame Shoryuken not stronger if it scorches?

super art? ah, you mean shinryuken. and, which is more damaging? a flame engulfed you fist without any mix(flaming shoryuken) anymore or when you add an killing intent, engulfed in blue energy pillar and even used every of your strength to do it?

Originally posted by Classic NES
Those are warning shots, why else would he miss and proceed to talk to Ryu? Watch the trailer again in Subs and you will see him taunting Ryu to use his power. Evil Ryu on the other hand completely let loose with full intent to kill no matter what. So, how can you even compare them?

true it's a warning shot. but I don't think he pull his punches. you can see his hadouken shower only manage to create an explosion which is still comparable to his previous hadouken.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Which is why anime Ken is weaker.

you mean their skill. he had no super special moves. but his shoryken is stronger. his shoryuken was filled with killing intent and covered with blue energy.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Alright, but it doesn't change what I said about him being weaker.

I have my opinion, you have yours.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Shakunetsu is not fire though, it's heat. It may resemble fire because of it's appearence, but then again Hadou energy ressembles fire in general. The word Shakunetsu mean Incandescent, which means the projectile is a hot fireball. There is no fire in the projectile [Other than in a recycled gameplay animation], it's just hot. It will always feel the like the same, but if it has heat it will just be hot as well as feeling like a well landed kick. Are you saying that Shakunetsu doesn't feel like a well landed kick because it's hot?

shakunetsu hadouken = well landed kick + fire. if you said it has a heat only, then why gouki's shakunetsu able to burn those grasses? a boiled water can't burn a grass but it has a heat too. so, shakunetsu has a fire. regular shakunetsu hadouken burn but it isn't burn that badly. but when it comes to those grass, those fire spread quickly.

Originally posted by Classic NES
And, stop telling people to divide by zero. Most matches in versus are all speculation since they never happen canonically. So, why can't I speculate on how his powers work like how we all speculate on who wins, especially when there is evidence to support that claim? If that's the case why even speculate who would win in a versus since "We didn't make the games." Also, didn't you speculate through this match like when you claimed that Ryu learns Shinkuu Hadouken at the end of alpha or That Anme Kens Shoryuken is stronger? Why is that Ok and other speculation is not?

hey, I'm using tiamat's FAQ where it is said hadouken is feels like a well landed kick. can't you understand my logic till now? I'm keep asking you how did you feel after you got hit by a kick and you didn't answer. I'm keep asking you how could a kick disintegrate people but you keep talking about how did hadouken's effect manipulated. dude, hadouken feels like a well landed kick. nothing more nothing else.

and tell me when did regular ryu used shinkuu hadouken from the beginning of the movie till the final scene? he used it in final scene only. and did ken used a killing intent to shoryuken someone with his flaming shoryuken? did he used every of his energy to execute his flaming shoryuken? even his shinryuken isn't that exhausting. that's the base of my opinion. so?

Originally posted by Classic NES
What about the fact that Gouki's attacks kill, how does that not facotr in the properties?

gouki didn't restrain his ansatsuken just like gouken, ryu and ken. remember ansatsuken is a killing art?

Originally posted by Classic NES
When did I ever say it's canon, do you just decide what is canon or what is not based on what suites you? Once again Capcom states that it is accurate in it's portrayal of the movies not story. Second of all it incinerated because it has heat, it doesn't need fire.

there's something wrong about SFA the movie. hadouken could incinerate people while it actually feels like a well landed kick. I know that's how they fought and that's how they fought pathetically against one cyborg isn't it?. but, dude, how many times I have to ask how could a "kick" disintegrate someone? by a heat? please. don't try to add hadouken's effect unless it is shakunetsu or denjin.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Wrong, Messatsu Gouhadou has fire at the last hit so does Evil Ryu's Shinkuu. While the first hits do not burn at all which further supports what I said about him heating it up at the climax.

which is gameplay only, it's regular ryu's shinkuu hadouken which has it's effect and it's stated that shinkuu hadouken is a hadouken with vacuum energy on it. and when that cyborg disintegrate, there's no fire on it but when you saw shakunetsu, you'll see a fire.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
or when you add an killing intent, engulfed in blue energy pillar and even used every of your strength to do it?

Wait, are you claiming that the Blue energy is Killing intent? You aware that if Ken was using the Murder wave he would change completely. . .right?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

true it's a warning shot. but I don't think he pull his punches. you can see his hadouken shower only manage to create an explosion which is still comparable to his previous hadouken.

How exactly does that mean he's going all out? Infact, Gouki pretty much always pulls his punches because he's saving his full power for a good fight.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

his shoryuken was filled with killing intent and covered with blue energy.

That energy is not killing intent.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

shakunetsu hadouken = well landed kick + fire. if you said it has a heat only, then why gouki's shakunetsu able to burn those grasses? a boiled water can't burn a grass but it has a heat too. so, shakunetsu has a fire. regular shakunetsu hadouken burn but it isn't burn that badly. but when it comes to those grass, those fire spread quickly.

Or maybe it's hot enough to ignite the grass with heat. If your claiming it's fire itself prove it.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

hey, I'm using tiamat's FAQ where it is said hadouken is feels like a well landed kick. can't you understand my logic till now? I'm keep asking you how did you feel after you got hit by a kick and you didn't answer. I'm keep asking you how could a kick disintegrate people but you keep talking about how did hadouken's effect manipulated. dude, hadouken feels like a well landed kick. nothing more nothing else.

And, I repeat as always that the effect will vary depending on how it's manipulated. You just agreed when you posted that: "Shakunetsu Hadouken = Well landed kick + fire." So, doesn't that effect vary from a simple Hadouken which feels like a well landed Kick? This is what I was getting at from the get go.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

and tell me when did regular ryu used shinkuu hadouken from the beginning of the movie till the final scene? he used it in final scene only. and did ken used a killing intent to shoryuken someone with his flaming shoryuken? did he used every of his energy to execute his flaming shoryuken? even his shinryuken isn't that exhausting. that's the base of my opinion. so?

How can you use a move that you aren't taught? He most likely knew it before hand and choose to use it later on IMO. But, if you disagree that's fine, but don't go around telling people not to speculate sort of how you speculate that Shakunetsu is fire even though the canon says it's not hot enough to ignite stuff.

Ken was maxed out since he was owned by the cyborg of course he used all his energy. Your comparing the stamina of two different versions of ken and fabricating your own Shoryuken?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

gouki didn't restrain his ansatsuken just like gouken, ryu and ken. remember ansatsuken is a killing art?

Even though he's always holding back his true power?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

there's something wrong about SFA the movie. hadouken could incinerate people while it actually feels like a well landed kick.

We keep going over this, but it keeps passing over your head. He was incinerated because Ryu can add heat towards the climax of his Hadouken. So, it was a Well landed Kick at first than at the end it was a Well Landed Kick + High intensity Heat= Ashes to ashes.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

I know that's how they fought and that's how they fought pathetically against one cyborg isn't it?. but, dude, how many times I have to ask how could a "kick" disintegrate someone? by a heat? please. don't try to add hadouken's effect unless it is shakunetsu or denjin.

Yes, because it's impossible for Ryu to change the property of a basic hadouken canonically? Just like Ryu cannot do an air Hadouken because he never did it before in the canon or Wipe his ass after taking a dump because that's never been shown as canon.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

which is gameplay only, it's regular ryu's shinkuu hadouken which has it's effect and it's stated that shinkuu hadouken is a hadouken with vacuum energy on it. and when that cyborg disintegrate, there's no fire on it but when you saw shakunetsu, you'll see a fire.

That's not even regular Ryu in the Vid, it's evil Ryu. I love how you ignore the point about Gouki's Messatsu Gouhadou. Also, prove it's Gameplay only even though the heat was present in movies.

Originally posted by Sado22
fixed.

Originally posted by Classic NES
[B]Wait, are you claiming that the Blue energy is Killing intent? You aware that if Ken was using the Murder wave he would change completely. . .right?

remember ken said he really want to kill that cyborg? and I never said that blue energy is his killing intent. it was shown when ken said he's gonna kill that cyborg.

Originally posted by Classic NES
How exactly does that mean he's going all out? Infact, Gouki pretty much always pulls his punches because he's saving his full power for a good fight.

I mean he didn't pull his punches while in his regular form.

Originally posted by Classic NES
That energy is not killing intent.

I've been explain it before : he really want to kill that cyborg. so, no.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Or maybe it's hot enough to ignite the grass with heat. If your claiming it's fire itself prove it.

proof what? no fire within his hadouken? dude, a boiled water can't ignite a grass on fire even though it's hot and even a daytime sunshine never burn a grass except if you said forest fire where there's a hot spot. shakunetsu hadouken is a hadouken with fire elements just like denjin hadouken which is a hadouken mixed with a thunder.

Originally posted by Classic NES
And, I repeat as always that the effect will vary depending on how it's manipulated. You just agreed when you posted that: "Shakunetsu Hadouken = Well landed kick + fire." So, doesn't that effect vary from a simple Hadouken which feels like a well landed Kick? This is what I was getting at from the get go.

if what you want to say it's effect vary depending about which element is it, then it's ok. but I had enough with hadouken is a disintegrating laser. stupid capcom...

Originally posted by Classic NES
How can you use a move that you aren't taught? He most likely knew it before hand and choose to use it later on IMO. But, if you disagree that's fine, but don't go around telling people not to speculate sort of how you speculate that Shakunetsu is fire even though the canon says it's not hot enough to ignite stuff.

shinkuu hadouken is just a beefed up hadouken. he won't use it until the final scene? dude, that's an emergency state! how could someone with such an emergency state like that still have a time to hold back his power? and please remember it's just my opinion. you don't need to agree with me. and I told you, shakunetsu is a mix of hadouken + fire element. so, it's a well landed kick + burning effect. it's not a pure fire like kyo has.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Ken was maxed out since he was owned by the cyborg of course he used all his energy. Your comparing the stamina of two different versions of ken and fabricating your own Shoryuken?

my opinion : if both version of ken fought in the same conditions, canonical ken would use shinryuken instead of his "final" shoryuken. that's why I said before, anime ken's shoryuken is stronger than canonical ken. so, do you think canonical ken would do the same with anime ken? I guess not. 😬

Originally posted by Classic NES
Even though he's always holding back his true power?

gouki's power at least at the same level with evil ryu. you know what evil ryu did to sagat do you?

Originally posted by Classic NES
We keep going over this, but it keeps passing over your head. He was incinerated because Ryu can add heat towards the climax of his Hadouken. So, it was a Well landed Kick at first than at the end it was a Well Landed Kick + High intensity Heat= Ashes to ashes.

yeah right, this won't go anywhere. well landed kick + heat <<< incinerate. if so, then, why didn't ash's Pluvoise, kyo's 182 shiki, or even ken's shoryuken never incinerate any fighter he fought? canonically, even gouki never incinerate someone with his hadouken. his hadouken only managed to create a not-so-big explosion compared to a skyscraper buster.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Yes, because it's impossible for Ryu to change the property of a basic hadouken canonically? Just like Ryu cannot do an air Hadouken because he never did it before in the canon or Wipe his ass after taking a dump because that's never been shown as canon.

*facepalm.
ryu has only 3 special. and you know every single of it. ryu never had an air hadouken.

Originally posted by Classic NES
That's not even regular Ryu in the Vid, it's evil Ryu. I love how you ignore the point about Gouki's Messatsu Gouhadou. Also, prove it's Gameplay only even though the heat was present in movies.

watch that video again, bud. the only one who shot a shinkuu hadouken is regular ryu and evil ryu only used messatsu gou shoryu and shun goku satsu(missed). and like I told you before, well landed kick + heat <<< incinerate

I'm sorry, but you actually think Cloud can beat Gouki so I cannot really take you seriously.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
remember ken said he really want to kill that cyborg? and I never said that blue energy is his killing intent. it was shown when ken said he's gonna kill that cyborg.

Because he said it, and you implied it was murderous intent.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

I mean he didn't pull his punches while in his regular form.

So, what's the point of missing and talking to Ryu? He was holding back and giving Ryu a warning. No, proof he went all out.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

I've been explain it before : he really want to kill that cyborg. so, no.

Doesn't mean he was using killing intent. He could have just been really angry is all.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

proof what? no fire within his hadouken? dude, a boiled water can't ignite a grass on fire even though it's hot and even a daytime sunshine never burn a grass except if you said forest fire where there's a hot spot. shakunetsu hadouken is a hadouken with fire elements just like denjin hadouken which is a hadouken mixed with a thunder.

Why would it matter if it's a forest fire or not? Bush fires happen all the time because of heat and temperature. Yet, a Hadouken cannot do it. . .please.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

if what you want to say it's effect vary depending about which element is it, then it's ok.

That's what I've been saying the whole time.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

shinkuu hadouken is just a beefed up hadouken. he won't use it until the final scene? dude, that's an emergency state!

how could someone with such an emergency state like that still have a time to hold back his power?

What part of PIS don't you get?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

and please remember it's just my opinion. you don't need to agree with me. and I told you, shakunetsu is a mix of hadouken + fire element. so, it's a well landed kick + burning effect. it's not a pure fire like kyo has.

When did I imply otherwise and it's not fire.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

my opinion : if both version of ken fought in the same conditions, canonical ken would use shinryuken instead of his "final" shoryuken. that's why I said before, anime ken's shoryuken is stronger than canonical ken. so, do you think canonical ken would do the same with anime ken? I guess not. 😬

How is that Shoryuken Stronger than A Shinryuken? Nevermind that Capcom stated that Ken can canonically crack a cyborgs jaw with a Shoryuken. . .Not even a super. So, that means Anime Kens strongest Shoryuken = Ken shoryuken. . .not even a super.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

gouki's power at least at the same level with evil ryu. you know what evil ryu did to sagat do you?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

yeah right, this won't go anywhere. well landed kick + heat <<< incinerate. if so, then, why didn't ash's Pluvoise, kyo's 182 shiki, or even ken's shoryuken never incinerate any fighter he fought?

What does Kyo, Ash and Iori have to do with this? What a Red herring.

As for Ken he never tried to Kill his opponents because he doesn't fight to kill. He has burned his opponents which is why he has the nickname "Flaming Dragon".

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

canonically, even gouki never incinerate someone with his hadouken. his hadouken only managed to create a not-so-big explosion compared to a skyscraper buster.

And, Canonically Ryu's never taken a Shiat. I guess he cannot using your logic, right?

Nevermind you just saw Gouki light up the entire area with his Shakunetsu Gou Hadou and your saying he cannot incinerate someone?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

*facepalm.
ryu has only 3 special. and you know every single of it. ryu never had an air hadouken.

Are you seriously telling me that Ryu cannot jump in the air and just shoot a Hadouken?

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma

watch that video again, bud. the only one who shot a shinkuu hadouken is regular ryu and evil ryu only used messatsu gou shoryu and shun goku satsu(missed). and like I told you before, well landed kick + heat <<< incinerate

Ryu doesn't have fire at the end of his Shinkuu that's Evil Ryu.

YouTube video

Also, how can the heat from the well landed kick+ Heat not incinerate?

emperor, in that crappy anime, anytime ryu got angry he simply went dark hadou. it was that way since the beginning. i mean come on...the guy was going emo ryu in his sleep 😆

Originally posted by Sado22
and you think buying lemons from a kid is manly😐

Originally posted by Sado22
emperor, in that crappy anime, anytime ryu got angry he simply went dark hadou. it was that way since the beginning. i mean come on...the guy was going emo ryu in his sleep 😆

The sleeping part was really stupid. He had a bad dream and turn to Dark Ryu. 😆

when that wasn't bad enough, they have ken punch him in the stomach to turn him back to normal 😆

Originally posted by Sado22
when that wasn't bad enough, they have ken punch him in the stomach to turn him back to normal 😆

Man ken must really worked out that night! 😆

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
of course it's yes.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
while he can incinerate a cyborg without his strongest move in alpha timeline and now he can't even KO a normal human with his strongest moves. SFA the movie is full of bullshit. stop using SFA anime as a reference. you know a well landed kick can't incinerate people

RYU FOUGHT WIT THE INTENT TO KILL. HE WANTED TO KILL THE CYBORG. HE USED THE HADOU OF MURDEROUS INTENT. RYU FOUGHT TO KILL. HE WAS ANGRY AND WANTED TO DESTROY THE CYBORG.

RYU WAS REGULAR WHEN HE FOUGHT HUGO, HE DID NOT WANT TO KILL HUGO. THEY JUST HAD A FRIENDLY MATCH. RYU'S SHIN SHORYUKEN DOESN'T KILL PEOPLE. HE TONES HIS MOVES DOWN WHEN HE IS NOT FIGHTING FOR HIS LIFE OR NOT FIGHTING WITH TH INTENT TO KILL.

I hope you understand now. I made big so that you don't miss my point and really take it in.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
yeah right...

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
dude, if bahamut was slashed by cloud, the cloud will be gone through bahamut body and bahamut will be cut, not fall. you want a slash? then you should see cloud's last attack. cloud slashed bahamut and used climhazzard to bahamut and then bahamut dies.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
you said bahamut = balloon without any weight. here's an extreme question for you. can a 5 years old children push bahamut all the way to the thin air?

slashing through a giant unrealistic creature wit an unknown weight and mass, with an unrealistic super sword<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<picking up 2 boulders wit a man on top and holding it there for hours.

Originally posted by Terryc250
Show me the actual referance?

Originally posted by Terryc250
And where are their profiles?

Originally posted by Terryc250
Again, you cannot state these things without actual evidence.

This is stupid to the highest degree, nobody ever said Cloud was gonna loose just that he wouldn't win in a stomp. Man, just say no to the the drugs people.