silver surfer vs orion

Originally posted by Naija boy
Orion may be the God of War but he is more likely to use the direct physical approach or simply blast away than anythin else. Even with all his supposed experience he doesnt use his more exotic abilities near as much as surfer does. And thats what matters here.

Orion chasin Mr Miracle around at some unknown speed hardly indicates anything at all. It certainly wasnt mentioned that they were moving at FTL or even close to it. I can brin up scans of quasar chasing surfer but that certainly isnt a good indicator of quasars speed in or out of battle. So that scan in no way disproves surfers speed and manovrability advantage. Not even close

Also now can someone please post a scan in Rock of ages where it is mentioned that orion creates or augments the genesis box? Cuz i did not see such an instance anywhere in the arc. Infact here where Orion uses the Genesis box nothing is mentioned of him creating it/augmenting it or always carrying it around with him at all.

Orion even mentions that the box is programmed to rearrange the universe and remake it and since he is the last true warrior it is fit that he should strike with the ultimate weapon. He never says that he programmed it or created it or anything even close to some of the claims being made in this thread.

What mobolity and speed advantage does SS have that u r referring to, the only thing fast about SS is his board and he only used it briefly to blitz a couple of stationary battleships. On that note, didn't Orion fly out from the new gensis all the way into earth in a very short amount of time or something similar to that...certainly a FTL speedfeat in it's self considering where new gensis is located. Besides that, when has SS ever used speed in a battle?

The only thing's I've seen him do is intiate fast projectiles(due to his board once again mind you)and nagivate well at high speeds. It really isn't anything beyond the scope of Orions abilities, with the harness Orion can take flight with very sophisticaed mobility and exceed FTL travel as well. Most importanty, like with SS the harness acts as a extension of his mobolity and he can apply the speed of his harness for effective offensive blitzes or defensive counterattacks....in in reality orion and SS are pretty evenly matched with no real glarring advantages over the other.

Originally posted by Makky
SS has versatility, but Orion is the better fighter. Orion has some of the best MA in the DCU,so his application of speed and power is incredibly precise and effective...and for a character who's stats allowed him to stalemate a sun amped superman thats a pretty damn good thing. That's the benefits of aquiring MA, it ultalizes ur body to its full effectivness since u have to tune every physical attribute to its maxim.

Orion's gear is just the icing on the cake, and while not as versatile as SS he does have some pretty slick feats to accompany him.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Orion may be the more skilled fighter, but that doesn't mean that he's the BETTER fighter. Surfer doesn't have to be good at H2H(even though he is) because he actually USES his versatility in combat, that's what I meant by saying he was the more effective fighter.

Orion has used versatility as well. Time, transmutation, control of all forces, force fields, healing, telepathy, etc...

And are you actually saying Silver Surfer is BETTER fighter? How so? Can you provide some examples? Cause I'm coming up with a blank.

Originally posted by cloud102
Well, BR has never been clocked, but it's been shown that he moves many, many times faster than the speed of light. Orion was shown moving faster than the speed of light even without his harness.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Catching BR isn't the feat though is it? I thought you said it was Mr. Miracle with BR's equipment? Just because I'm driving the Batmobile, it doesn't mean that I can take corners as fast as Batman.

No, but that is why Scott used his equipment in the first place. To do everything (including escaping Orion) in a timely fashion. Plus, It was shown that they were moving beyond light speed. I'll see if I can get those scans up.

Surfer wins, easily.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Orion may be the more skilled fighter, but that doesn't mean that he's the BETTER fighter. Surfer doesn't have to be good at H2H(even though he is) because he actually USES his versatility in combat, that's what I meant by saying he was the more effective fighter.

SS is a pretty terrible MA, if he was turned back into a human I doubt he would even be able to defend agaisnt a nameless thug with a gun. SS relies on his strong suit which is versatility, that isn't some admission that is he is the better fighter. A good fighter ultalizes all there abilities to maxim capcity, IMO Orion is the better fighter because in addition to superior MA he also has a equally effecient application of his gear. SS is a bit 1-deminisonal, he has mastered his PC but he is completly garnage physically....a bit like tony stark in the sense that tony knows his suit but physically he can't fight for shit.

Originally posted by cloud102
What you seem to dismiss is how the New Gods use their tech in the first place. Each MB is designed by his or her own user. Orion never said that someone else created the Genesis Box, he said it was programmed, it could of been him or he could have TOLD the MB to do it. Like he does ALL THE TIME.

What are u talking about? Orion could have "told the MB" to do what? Regardless, Motherboxes have been given to people numerous times. I also remember Orion being given a fatherbox during Walt simonsons run. So just because a person is using a motherbox does NOT mean they created it themselves. Further the Genesis Box was described as the "Ultimate weapon". This indicates that it had been designed previously for a specific purpose and NOT by orion for personal use. Orion then explains that as the last warrior it is fitting that he should be the one to strike with it. That sentence also implies that the Genesis box was NOT designed by Orion but was rather a reserved weapon to be used by anyone at the appropriate time. ALL THE ON PANEL EVIDENCE whether implied, or outright stated supports the premise that the Genesis box was NOT created by Orion. The only thing that have to the contrary are logical fallacies and outlandish speculations.

All the panel evidence supports Orion's creation of the MB.

Originally posted by Makky
SS is a pretty terrible MA, if he was turned back into a human I doubt he would even be able to defend agaisnt a nameless thug with a gun. SS relies on his strong suit which is versatility, that isn't some admission that is he is the better fighter. A good fighter ultalizes all there abilities to maxim capcity, IMO Orion is the better fighter because in addition to superior MA he also has a equally effecient application of his gear. SS is a bit 1-deminisonal, he has mastered his PC but he is completly garnage physically....a bit like tony stark in the sense that tony knows his suit but physically he can't fight for shit.

If he was a good MA, why didn't he stop BP from using an armbar? 😉

Originally posted by Makky
SS is a pretty terrible MA, if he was turned back into a human I doubt he would even be able to defend agaisnt a nameless thug with a gun. SS relies on his strong suit which is versatility, that isn't some admission that is he is the better fighter. A good fighter ultalizes all there abilities to maxim capcity, IMO Orion is the better fighter because in addition to superior MA he also has a equally effecient application of his gear. SS is a bit 1-deminisonal, he has mastered his PC but he is completly garnage physically....a bit like tony stark in the sense that tony knows his suit but physically he can't fight for shit.

edit

Originally posted by cloud102
Orion has used versatility as well. Time, transmutation, control of all forces, force fields, healing, telepathy, etc...

And are you actually saying Silver Surfer is BETTER fighter? How so? Can you provide some examples? Cause I'm coming up with a blank.

If by better you mean more effective then yes. See the above example.

Originally posted by cloud102
No, but that is why Scott used his equipment in the first place. To do everything (including escaping Orion) in a timely fashion. Plus, It was shown that they were moving beyond light speed. I'll see if I can get those scans up.

Originally posted by Naija boy
What are u talking about? Orion could have "told the MB" to do what? Regardless, Motherboxes have been given to people numerous times. I also remember Orion being given a fatherbox during Walt simonsons run. So just because a person is using a motherbox does NOT mean they created it themselves. Further the Genesis Box was described as the "Ultimate weapon". This indicates that it had been designed previously for a specific purpose and NOT by orion for personal use. Orion then explains that as the last warrior it is fitting that he should be the one to strike with it. That sentence also implies that the Genesis box was NOT designed by Orion but was rather a reserved weapon to be used by anyone at the appropriate time. ALL THE ON PANEL EVIDENCE whether implied, or outright stated supports the premise that the Genesis box was NOT created by Orion. The only thing that have to the contrary are logical fallacies and outlandish speculations.

Yes, Orion tells the MB to do certain things. You know like heal him, transmute objects, tracking people, etc... He does it both in a telepath state and outright talks to the MB. The same could have been done there. Though it wouldn't have been the first time Orion created technology.

But go ahead and believe what you want.

Originally posted by Makky
SS is a pretty terrible MA, if he was turned back into a human I doubt he would even be able to defend agaisnt a nameless thug with a gun. SS relies on his strong suit which is versatility, that isn't some admission that is he is the better fighter. A good fighter ultalizes all there abilities to maxim capcity, IMO Orion is the better fighter because in addition to superior MA he also has a equally effecient application of his gear. SS is a bit 1-deminisonal, he has mastered his PC but he is completly garnage physically....a bit like tony stark in the sense that tony knows his suit but physically he can't fight for shit.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Again, Lightspeed is nothing to Surfer.

Same with the BR.

Originally posted by darthgoober
He uses versatility via MB outside of combat to foil traps and such, but he's not really the type to spring something creative in the middle of a fight. If Orion squares off against Supes or were to square off against the Hulk, a punch or blast would be the most likely result with a brawl following, put Surfer in the same situation and he'd mess with his opponent's internal energy stores and not have to bother with the rest.

If by better you mean more effective then yes. See the above example.

Orion has absorbed energy, created force fields, and commanded other types of energy in battle via the Astro Force. He's pretty effective.

Originally posted by cloud102
Same with the BR.

SS wins most of the time, his speed insures that orion wont be able to touch him, now if surfer gets close enough for orion to get physical, he would lose.