Originally posted by cloud102
Orion has absorbed energy, created force fields, and commanded other types of energy in battle via the Astro Force. He's pretty effective.
Originally posted by cloud102
I never said he did, but to actually chase him through tubes, they were going many times faster than the speed of light. Even if Surfer is faster, it's not by leaps and bounds.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I don't doubt that it's come up once or twice, but more often than not he thinks and fights like a flying brick. Do you have access to scans, because we can compare feats if you like so we can find out who's more likely to use something other than a punch or generic energy blast to finish a fight.
I don't doubt Surfer has done more exotic abilities. I mean, he DID have his own series that lasted a good long time and he has been shown more frequent than Orion. My argument is that those versatility tricks won't necessarily work on Orion with the Mother Box and Astro Force in play.
Though, what people don't like to point out is that Orion has indeed used versatiliy PLENTY of times.
Originally posted by cloud102
Yes, Orion tells the MB to do certain things. You know like heal him, transmute objects, tracking people, etc... He does it both in a telepath state and outright talks to the MB. The same could have been done there. Though it wouldn't have been the first time Orion created technology.But go ahead and believe what you want.
Okay let me go over this in as simple terms as i can. Yes Orion does tell his MB to do certain things, like to heal him transmute objects etc. Thats good for him. However in this case there is ABSOLUTELY nothing on panel to suggest that he created OR programmed it. From the literal meaning to the implied meaning of the dialogue on panel there is NO indication of such. Only through baseless speculation and wishful thinking can anyone arrive at that conclusion. Fortunately that sort of thing is not an acceptable debating style on this forum. Further een if we subscribe to that extremely false belief, it would I]still[/I] be irrelevant because the circumstances surrounding the boxes creation would still be unknown. It would therefore have no bearing in this match as it would tell us nothing of Orions personal abilities.
Note thats if we decide to go along with a premise thats already false in the first place. That entire line of argument therefore is just pointless.
Originally posted by darthgoober
You said before that it mentioned them going lightspeed, when did cover them going many times it?
Once I look through the book, I'll try and post scans from my friends computer. But they were indeed going much faster than light.
Not the first time for Orion as he was shown to fly ftl in Pollaks run.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Okay let me go over this in as simple terms as i can. Yes Orion does tell his MB to do certain things, like to heal him transmute objects etc. Thats good for him. However in this case there is ABSOLUTELY nothing on panel to suggest that he created OR programmed it. From the literal meaning to the implied meaning of the dialogue on panel there is NO indication of such. Only through baseless speculation and wishful thinking can anyone arrive at that conclusion. Fortunately that sort of thing is not an acceptable debating style on this forum. Further een if we subscribe to that extremely false belief, it would I]still[/I] be irrelevant because the circumstances surrounding the boxes creation would still be unknown. It would therefore have no bearing in this match as it would tell us nothing of Orions personal abilities.Note thats if we decide to go along with a premise thats already false in the first place. That entire line of argument therefore is just pointless.
Agree to disagree. I respect your stance, though.
Originally posted by cloud102
Once I look through the book, I'll try and post scans from my friends computer. But they were indeed going much faster than light.Not the first time for Orion as he was shown to fly ftl in Pollaks run.
Mind you the FTL disscussion is pointless because SS doesn't use speed in fights anyways.
Originally posted by cloud102
I don't doubt Surfer has done more exotic abilities. I mean, he DID have his own series that lasted a good long time and he has been shown more frequent than Orion. My argument is that those versatility tricks won't necessarily work on Orion with the Mother Box and Astro Force in play.Though, what people don't like to point out is that Orion has indeed used versatiliy PLENTY of times.
Originally posted by cloud102
Like the Flash? Most of the time he doesn't.
SS isn't a speedster, his speed is determined by a external device such as his board. Movement superspeed is a attribute of speedsters like from what you would se with such characters like Supes,WW,Flash,QS and Runner. Technically, Orion has movement superspeed as his battle with mr.miracle showed.
Originally posted by darthgoober
So you acknowledge that Surfer has more exotic abilities and that he actually USES those exotic abilities to take out his opponents indirectly more often than Orion does, so how are you trying to justify your stance that Orion's the better fighter? I'm not talking about skill, I'm talking about who's more likely to find a way to capitalize on a "cheap" path to victory.
I think we're talking about 2 different things. When I say better, I mean more skilled in the MA's department. So, IF the battle gets close, Orion would have the better odds, IMO.
Originally posted by cloud102
I think we're talking about 2 different things. When I say better, I mean more skilled in the MA's department. So, IF the battle gets close, Orion would have the better odds, IMO.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Orion may be the more skilled fighter, but that doesn't mean that he's the BETTER fighter. Surfer doesn't have to be good at H2H(even though he is) because he actually USES his versatility in combat, that's what I meant by saying he was the more effective fighter.