Originally posted by Sado22Here is the thing, only two things could have happened in AC.
why toy around with a man who surprised you last time and nearly killed you only to start toying around, get surprised and get killed permanently? 😕
Seph could not avoid the Omnislash V.5.
Seph is an idiot who doesn't know how to dodge attacks.
Pick one.
Originally posted by DarkC
[B]And I still stand by that - he never exerted himself, i.e. gave serious effort. He gave some - just was not going full-out with Ryu.Because it needs no comparison. You only have to consider what he did in the fight after itself to realise that he was giving some effort.
He wouldn't have used a Tenma Gou Zankuukou on Ryu if he hadn't been giving effort. Remember, it's a level 2 super; judging from its relative power compared to his other supers - I say that yes, he was giving some effort after.
That's not what I'm trying to get at here at all - I told you that I brought up the comparison just for a likeliness in motive (inferior from superior), not the scale of the actual treatment itself.
Gouki being above Ryu is not nearly the same scale as Sephiroth being above Cloud.
Alright then we can agree that Gouki does put in effort when fighting Ryu.
Once again, you asked for me to "show" you when it's been done - not specifying canon or non-canon sources, so technically you're still just beating a dead horse here, as far as I am concerned.
Your example of a self-drawn comic is completely off-the-wall altogether; considering that the other references are actual published work, and thus are approved by Capcom and their relevant associates, they at least have credibility in that department even if they are not considered to be canon. Don't bring that up again, it's a silly example.
Depiction (or lack thereof) of the moves in the games themselves are lacking - since we've been discussing his use of the Tenma Gou Zankuukou let's use that as a comparison. In the anime trailer you see him firing them all from one hand and they're moving a LOT faster than they do in the game. They're also apparently fired off faster too, enough to make one big explosion instead of many little ones. Also, look how outrageously long it takes Ryu to power up his Shinkuu Hadouken, then compare that to SF4, or any other SF for that matter. Only Ken's Shinryuken in that video appeared identical to in-game.Basically what I'm saying here is that the "official" recognization of the actual execution of Supers themselves are likely to differ, either radically or not at all, so we have no way of knowing what the Shungokusatsu's speed during the actual execution of the move, when he's dragging his victims through all the hells. The actual "approach" of the move, from what canon material suggests, is instant.
Your use of game mechanics here are lacking credibility when you refer to the "having to move up to the opponent" (I assume you refer to the ashura look-alike move). It's a balancing mechanic. Do you really think that Akuma would have been considered a "balanced" character if he could, upon reaching a Lvl.3 charge, instantly wipe out his opponent with a simple 5-button combination?
The reason why this move is so ridiculously easy to avoid in-game is because it's so overpowered in the first place in terms of damage done. You don't see any of the high-teir Street Fighter players using it in a match successfully. Hsien Chang once (overconfidently, I might add) attempted it against Umehara and lost when he had the advantage beforehand. It can be stopped with a well-timed LP.
I could go into a whole new rant about how stupid this move is to attempt to use in any competent SF match, but I'll just cut it off here.
I have to say that I find your heavy reliance on video evidence a little unsightful, Terry. What happened to all the other points I brought up?
Alright lets get this straight, there is no way to judge how it works in actual canon, BUT it does work slightly similar, i never said it works exactly. We've never seen it in canon, so you can't say "from canon material its instant". He landed it on Vega from getting him from behind, if its so instant why doesnt he just do it at the start of the battle with Gen or Gouken? Why does he wait near the end of the battle while they're fatigued?
No, they'd be a blur.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Alright then we can agree that Gouki does put in effort when fighting Ryu.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Well normally when someone asks you to show you something, you don't normally post non-canon things, if you asked me "Show me Sephiroth destroying a planet" then i posted a drawing of him destroying a planet, it'd be a bit ridiculous don't you think?
You have to be specific here - just some random drawing by a person, yes; if it's Square-Enix official art no. Technically anything fan-art is far from canon.
Also, you have to think about who was behind the source and how they got any idea at all behind their depiction of the moves. Both visual representatives of the Shungokusatsu I just posted are absolutely nothing like the games, so where on Earth would the artists/animators have got them from? Capcom, of course - they don't just randomly make something up.
Basically I posted evidence that was non-canon, but still with credibility in its references. Canonity isn't everything, Terry, it just means that it isn't officially accepted - it doesn't mean that it's "wrong".
Originally posted by Terryc250
Capcom approves of them using their characters, its just as silly as Marvel making that Mech-Gouki, or Ryu going up against Galactus, none of their things should be used as how the real character does anything, just don't bring non-canon things into debates period.
The crossover games were regarded as (besides an enormous chunk of cash in their wallet) an exciting chance for both companies to try and put their most well-known characters in a balanced fighting game, and it worked quite well. What it is, is NOT a story, which is why you see ridiculous things happening. It's just the creators being creative.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Alright lets get this straight, there is no way to judge how it works in actual canon, BUT it does work slightly similar, i never said it works exactly. We've never seen it in canon, so you can't say "from canon material its instant".
Once again, you rely far too heavily on visual/video evidence, and seem to disregard the other canon non-visual evidence I present. Think outside the box.
Originally posted by Terryc250
He landed it on Vega from getting him from behind, if its so instant why doesnt he just do it at the start of the battle with Gen or Gouken? Why does he wait near the end of the battle while they're fatigued?
He's like Ryu, he lives for fights, which is why he actually fought Gouken and Gen.
Unlike Ryu, he has no conscience due to his total immersion in Satsui no Hadou.
Originally posted by Terryc250
They'd be a blur, but you'd still be able to make out whats the head, etc, they wouldn't just be a dot.
Originally posted by DarkC
Just a "drawing"?You have to be specific here - just some random drawing by a person, yes; if it's Square-Enix official art no. Technically anything fan-art is far from canon.
Also, you have to think about who was behind the source and how they got any idea at all behind their depiction of the moves. Both visual representatives of the Shungokusatsu I just posted are absolutely nothing like the games, so where on Earth would the artists/animators have got them from? Capcom, of course - they don't just randomly make something up.
Basically I posted evidence that was non-canon, but still with credibility in its references. Canonity isn't everything, Terry, it just means that it isn't officially accepted - it doesn't mean that it's "wrong".
These 'crossovers' are considered noncanon very largely because of the plot; neither Capcom nor SNK wanted people in uproar over conflicts that their characters were in, during the plot of the games. It doesn't mean that absolutely everything in that game is factually wrong, especially the technicalities.
The crossover games were regarded as (besides an enormous chunk of cash in their wallet) an exciting chance for both companies to try and put their most well-known characters in a balanced fighting game, and it worked quite well. What it is, is NOT a story, which is why you see ridiculous things happening. It's just the creators being creative.
And the non-canon shun goku satsu you've posted we don't even get to see the entire thing, but we do see that once he lands it, it is almost like instant death.
I know it doesn't mean 100% wrong, but it doesn't mean right either, so it proves no point, and we're back where we started, thats why i say posting non-canon things are pointless.
Once again, you rely far too heavily on visual/video evidence, and seem to disregard the other canon non-visual evidence I present. Think outside the box.
Why would he end the fight before it got started?He's like Ryu, he lives for fights, which is why he actually fought Gouken and Gen.
Unlike Ryu, he has no conscience due to his total immersion in Satsui no Hadou.
If he had a chance to use it, he probably would have, while they were all fully healthy and had their guard up, thats most likely why he didn't use it at the time.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Non-canon is non-canon theres no such thing as "Non-canon but almost canon" its either canon, or non-canon, one can be used in debates to prove a point, the other cannot.
Keep up.
Originally posted by Terryc250
And the non-canon shun goku satsu you've posted we don't even get to see the entire thing, but we do see that once he lands it, it is almost like instant death.
Originally posted by Terryc250
If it was logically reasonable i would accept it, but the things you present have far too many holes in it.
You can't deny official and confirmed statements, such as the Gouken and Gen fights.
Originally posted by Terryc250
I know it doesn't mean 100% wrong, but it doesn't mean right either, so it proves no point, and we're back where we started, thats why i say posting non-canon things are pointless.
Don't make me go over this again. Despite what you may seem, pointing out that something is non-canon doesn't count as a real argument, especially if I've already done it. Repeatedly.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Why did he give Vega a shungokusatsu right away from behind then? He lives by the code of warrior, he should go all-out against them.
Both the moral code of Gouki and how Bison died in SF2 ARE official statements. They just happen to be
Originally posted by Terryc250
If he had a chance to use it, he probably would have, while they were all fully healthy and had their guard up, thats most likely why he didn't use it at the time.
Also I found this cccount from Street Fighter Zero 2:
As there was about to be a fight
to the death, the opponent had no deficiencies.
".....arm yourself now!!" The spirit kept secretly inside exploded, the cells of Gouki's entire body rose in sound with a resonating sensation.
......several hours later, Gouki's entire body in blood returned a scarlet hue, as he moved and saw the master's corpse.
Hadou's ultimate move "shungokusatsu," armed with "satsui no hadou" that struck the master, was complete.
Originally posted by DarkC
I never said it was, I was explaining why I was using it in the first place even if I knew it was non-canon.Keep up.
Understand.
No, we don't, which is why I said it "suggests" that the execution is instant, you have to consider internal and external influences. Rugal was fully aware during that and he still got owned by it.
Most of what I say to you seems to have "holes" in it because it's not explained enough, and there's nothing I can do about that. So far this entire debate you haven't had much proper arguments, outside of attempting to point out where I'm wrong. In the end they still suggest instant-cast Shungokusatsu.
You can't deny official and confirmed statements, such as the Gouken and Gen fights.
Once more, you requested that I "show" you what Shungokusatsu is supposed to look like outside of gameplay, I obliged. I wouldn't have bothered if you had told me to "explain" or something otherwise.Don't make me go over this again. Despite what you may seem, pointing out that something is non-canon doesn't count as a real argument, especially if I've already done it. Repeatedly.
How would I know? That's an anomaly of Capcom.Both the moral code of Gouki and how Bison died in SF2 ARE official statements. They just happen to be
Considering that HE was the one apparently down and out when Gouken beat him down, he was in no position to pull off a successful Shungokusatsu.
Also I found this cccount from Street Fighter Zero 2:quote:
As there was about to be a fight
to the death, the opponent had no deficiencies.
".....arm yourself now!!" The spirit kept secretly inside exploded, the cells of Gouki's entire body rose in sound with a resonating sensation.
......several hours later, Gouki's entire body in blood returned a scarlet hue, as he moved and saw the master's corpse.
Hadou's ultimate move "shungokusatsu," armed with "satsui no hadou" that struck the master, was complete.
Not sure what point you're trying to make here, we both already know Gouki and Gouken fought, and Gouki came out the winner via shungokustasu
Originally posted by Terryc250
Is this a debate? Yes, are non-canon things supposed to be used in debates? No, so i don't know why you posted it non-canon things in the first place.
I've already justified my reasoning for bringing them up, despite their non-canonity, you're simply continuing to insist on using that non-canon tirade, over and over again. You did not specify what evidence you wanted, aside from it being a visual example, so you are in no grounds at all to call me out on it, especially considering that I clearly pointed out in my original post that they were non-canon.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Please don't reply "Well you didn't say im not allowed to post non-canon things!" I shouldn't have to, again, this is a debate, if i asked you to show me something, im obviously asking you to show me for "evidence" non-canon things are [b]not evidence.[/b]
Read above.
I posted it because they were the only visuals I could find. Why do you think I bothered to mention that it was non canon in the first place? They were to assert their state as stated, but not official - in other words, to prevent you from immediately replying with "They're non-canon", which you did anyway. It's like trying to counter water with water, just ridiculous.
I will end this part of the debate right here, considering how terribly unproductive you're being with it:
You have had absolutely nothing new to add.
-You continue failing to understand basic points, despite me attempting to take baby steps to make them simpler.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Who cares, its non-canon. It's not even the real incarnation of Gouki in the first place, and besides that, Rugal getting caught with it =/= it being instant.
Originally posted by Terryc250
.. nothing suggests Shungokusatsu being instant, him being able to land it on some people does not = it being instant, Goku can land Kamehamehas against people plenty of times, it doesnt mean its instant.What statements? That Gouki landed it on them? Again landing it doesnt = it being instant, the fact that Gouki had to wear them down before using it suggests that its not.
It's not being able to land them that counts; it's the state that Gouki's opponent is in, or when in comparison to the state of Gouki's opponent. If Rugal was fully aware and facing his opponent, then do you really think that he would have let such a slow (according to you) move hit him, especially from where they were standing?
If I predict correctly, your next post in relation to what I just said will simply consist of dismissing this entire paragraph that I just wrote with "Well it's non-canon, so what you just said is moot".
Something along those lines, anyway.
But yeah, Gouki was beaten by Gouken, and he still managed to pull off a Shungokusatsu on his brother.
--
One more thing, the main reason why Goku was able to land such a move as a Kamehameha in a real battle was because the opponent was either strong enough to take it or counter it with another beam (etc), stupid enough to attempt to take it, or because he was able to land it using his nifty teleport move (on Perfect Cell, and Pikkon, beating them both).
By a matter of coincedence, it just so happens to be called the "instant" transmission, lol.
But in short, your DBZ analogy was very poorly thought out.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Yes i requested that you show me shungokusatsu, normally a person would actually show me it, you didn't though, you posted pointless non-canon things which you shouldn't have, instead you should've just said "Shungokustasu has never been shown outside of gameplay"
So me showing you materia that I myself asserted to be non-canon translates to "not showing you at all", and that I should have just said that. You're altering logic now in an attempt to form an argument, which is outrageous.
It was to show you what Capcom thought what the Shungokusatsu MIGHT look like, but they're still unsure - hence, it being non-canon.
Originally posted by Terryc250
I'ev asked you this already but can you show me with quotes from a reliable source a description of how Gouken and Gouki's fight went?
Originally posted by Terryc250
Not sure what point you're trying to make here, we both already know Gouki and Gouken fought, and Gouki came out the winner via shungokustasu
I brought that up because as you can see, after the move was executed it apparently took several HOURS for the move to finish.
Here it is again, in its proper context.
----
"The forbidden move was done. He selected Master Goutetsu as his opponent. As there was about to be a fight to the death, the opponent had no deficiencies.
"...arm yourself now!!!"
The spirit kept secretly inside exploded, the cells of Gouki's entire body rose in sound with a resonating sensation.....several hours later, Gouki's entire body in blood returned a scarlet hue, as he moved and saw the master's corpse."
----
(And yes, it is officially confirmed that Goutetsu WAS killed by a Shungokusatsu, so that was the move being described)
So as you can see, the course of the move itself is far from instant, so it basically is just a "hell murder". Considering now the translation of the move, there's no other reason to make it "instant hell murder" other than the startup of the move itself.
Considering I have negated both your arguments to the point of irrefutability, I fully anticipate your next reply to be filled with peripheral noise.
Originally posted by DarkC
I posted them because, again, they were the only sources of visual examples of Gouki performing Shungokusatsu displayed anywhere, with a bit of background. I shouldn't have to keep reminding you this, so pay attention for once.I've already justified my reasoning for bringing them up, despite their non-canonity, you're simply continuing to insist on using that non-canon tirade, over and over again. You did not specify what evidence you wanted, aside from it being a visual example, so you are in no grounds at all to call me out on it, especially considering that I clearly pointed out in my original post that they were non-canon.
I didn't, and I never said that anywhere so try not to pretend that something happened when it obviously didn't. Thanks.
"Once again, you asked for me to "show" you when it's been done - not specifying canon or non-canon sources, so technically you're still just beating a dead horse here, as far as I am concerned.
And I "showed" you."
Read above.I posted it because they were the only visuals I could find. Why do you think I bothered to mention that it was non canon in the first place? They were to assert their state as stated, but not official - in other words, to prevent you from immediately replying with "They're non-canon", which you did anyway. It's like trying to counter water with water, just ridiculous.
Its the same as trying to amp Gouki's strength in a debate from that comic where he punched and blew up that meteor twice the size of earth, i'd post it if i could find it.
But either way, non-canon is non-canon and shouldn't be taken for anything.
I will end this part of the debate right here, considering how terribly unproductive you're being with it:You have had absolutely nothing new to add.
-You continue failing to understand basic points, despite me attempting to take baby steps to make them simpler.
-You're trying to prove something with non-canon material (ridiculous)
-You come up with ridiculous claims that shungokusatsu is instantaneous with no proof or even logical reference.
-You tried to claim Gouki's effort against Ryu was the "exact same effort" Sephiroth treated Cloud with, which is wrong.
-You tried to claim Gouki can teleport from chinese urban location to the great wall in a couple seconds which failed
-You tried to claim Sephiroth took several seconds to warp into the entrance which failed
Sorrry but you've been failing this entire debate.
There you go again.Once more, read my posts properly. I'm seeing less and less to do with what I say, and more of an obsession to keep on posting. It's part of the reason why right now, you're being highly unproductive to this debate. Stop.
It's not being able to land them that counts; it's the state that Gouki's opponent is in, or when in comparison to the state of Gouki's opponent. If Rugal was fully aware and facing his opponent, then do you really think that he would have let such a slow (according to you) move hit him, especially from where they were standing?
If I predict correctly, your next post in relation to what I just said will simply consist of dismissing this entire paragraph that I just wrote with "Well it's non-canon, so what you just said is moot".
Something along those lines, anyway.
But yeah, Gouki was beaten by Gouken, and he still managed to pull off a Shungokusatsu on his brother.
One more thing, the main reason why Goku was able to land such a move as a Kamehameha in a real battle was because the opponent was either strong enough to take it or counter it with another beam (etc), stupid enough to attempt to take it, or because he was able to land it using his nifty teleport move (on Perfect Cell, and Pikkon, beating them both).By a matter of coincedence, it just so happens to be called the "instant" transmission, lol.
But in short, your DBZ analogy was very poorly thought out.
Well see:
Instant Transmission
Transmit = to send or forward, as to a recipient or destination; dispatch; convey.
Hence, Instantly send to a destination
Instant Transmission.
It describes the move perfectly.
Right now you've sunk to the point where you're ranting, and you're taking what I said completely out of their context (see above) to suit your own needs, simply because of your obsession to continue to reply. It's disappointing to say the least.So me showing you materia that I myself asserted to be non-canon translates to "not showing you at all", and that I should have just said that. You're altering logic now in an attempt to form an argument, which is outrageous.
It was to show you what Capcom thought what the Shungokusatsu MIGHT look like, but they're still unsure - hence, it being non-canon.
No i'm stating out the truth, i originally asked you to show me "proof", non-canon things are not "proof"
Yes, unless it has been proven to be canon, they're non-canon, or else we'd have people like Zack doing this to opponents:
YouTube video
Or Cloud busting out Knights of the round on everyone
"Might" doesn't help an arguments, "might" is where we start at, everyone is a possibility, Sephiroth MIGHT beable to bust a planet, but him doing it in Kingdom Hearts wouldn't help a debate at all if the debate is with FF7 Sephiroth.
I just did, that came from an exerpt from a Street Fighter Zero 2 document.This right here is proof that you haven't been bothering to read my posts properly. If you had, you would not have brought Gouken up because he does not pertain to his fight - or you thought that Gouken was Gouki's master. Neither option makes you look good, Terry.
I brought that up because as you can see, after the move was executed it apparently took several HOURS for the move to finish.
Here it is again, in its proper context.
----
"The forbidden move was done. He selected Master Goutetsu as his opponent. As there was about to be a fight to the death, the opponent had no deficiencies."...arm yourself now!!!"
The spirit kept secretly inside exploded, the cells of Gouki's entire body rose in sound with a resonating sensation.....several hours later, Gouki's entire body in blood returned a scarlet hue, as he moved and saw the master's corpse."
----(And yes, it is officially confirmed that Goutetsu WAS killed by a Shungokusatsu, so that was the move being described)
So as you can see, the course of the move itself is far from instant, so it basically is just a "hell murder". Considering now the translation of the move, there's no other reason to make it "instant hell murder" other than the startup of the move itself.
Considering I have negated both your arguments to the point of irrefutability, I fully anticipate your next reply to be filled with peripheral noise.
This is also from SFZ2
Shungokusatsu
Master Goutetsu spoke of a forbidden technique, "shungokusatsu." With this move, it was said that one's own life would be cut off in a moment of unparalleled intensity. That is, control utilized by "satsui no hadou", was said to run wildly until that life's very end.
Gouki, pronouncing all ancestors "fools" for sealing this "shungokusatsu," selected his path to break that ban on his own.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moment
Moment: an indefinitely short period of time; instant
So it seems the description of "instant" in the name actually refers to what i've thought all along, the instant in "instant hell murder", actually refers to when the person is caught: "one's own life would be cut off in a moment of unparalleled intensity."
Thats the description from GOUKETSU himself, perhaps him AND the ancestors have never before experienced "Shun Goku Satsu" before and named it incorrectly, Gouketsu thought it only took a "moment", maybe the ancestors did too thus they put the "instant" in the name. Either way, Gouketsu and the ancestors thought it only took a "moment" and THEY were the ones who named it what it is.
As I predicted, mainly noise.
If you’re going to reply to THIS one – at least do me the courtesy of going back through my posts and reading them proper, from what I can see you aren't.
Originally posted by Terryc250
No, YOU pay attention, like i said, posting non-canon crap is retarded, even for "visual example" i can post of drawing of Sephiroth blowing up worlds
It’s almost sad to see that you’ve now resorted to base argument diction, such as the use of “No, YOU”, and the word “retarded”.
Originally posted by Terryc250
non-canon is non-canon and should NOT be brought up in debates even for "visual example" no one cares about non-canon crap, it proves no point and are pointless to be brought up in debates, let alone even allowed to
They’re simply references where they’re not actually accepted, but still technically of interest at some instances.
Originally posted by Terryc250
if you knew they were non-canon then you shouldn't have posted them in the first place, i'm just letting you know that non-canon things hold no basis for claims, or grounds, or points, or anything like that, so pay attention and stop trying to defend non-canon things.
Because they’re the only visual examples at ALL – and since they in turn resemble nothing like the Shungokusatsu we’ve known in gameplay, I thought this was rather interesting, so I posted them anyway, adding that they were non-canon because I was not trying to use them as my references of proof – which you seem to have missed out on, repeatedly.
Originally posted by Terryc250
No, i think you're just getting frustrated because you failing to prove anything at all
I’m defending my use of non-canon material, not as proof, just the use of it itself, which I have successfully done.
I’m trying to prove that Shungokusatsu’s startup is instant, which I have successfully done.
You, on the other hand, are repeatedly ranting on about how non-canon references should not be used to prove something (When I’m actually not, that’s why I mentioned that they were non-canon in the first place). You’re trying to prove something that’s not only in leftfield and way out of context from what I’ve said earlier, but what is common sense anyway….it’s almost entertaining to see you going on despite the fact that I have way earlier asserted why I was using it if I knew it was non-canon.
Touché.
Originally posted by Terryc250
-You're trying to prove something with non-canon material (ridiculous)
Originally posted by Terryc250
-You come up with ridiculous claims that shungokusatsu is instantaneous with no proof or even logical reference.
Originally posted by Terryc250
-You tried to claim Gouki's effort against Ryu was the "exact same effort" Sephiroth treated Cloud with, which is wrong.
Originally posted by Terryc250
-You tried to claim Gouki can teleport from chinese urban location to the great wall in a couple seconds which failed
Originally posted by Terryc250
-You tried to claim Sephiroth took several seconds to warp into the entrance which failed
Sorrry but you've been failing this entire debate.
Unlike you, I can admit where I’m wrong, I have no problem with that, as you can see from what we discussed earlier. That’s perfectly fine with me – I do wish to debate properly, and it does happen. You don’t see me raging or ranting like you or some of the posters in the Liu Kang vs Gouki thread, do you? No – I consider myself above all that nonsense.
You’ve been highly unproductive thus far – most of your arguments are essentially just substitutes. Aside from Sephiroth’s movement speed, you’ve brought nothing to the table aside from attempts to counter what I say, and bringing nothing new to the table.
Originally posted by Terryc250
I've asked you this i'm not sure how many times now, i'm not sure if you're purposely avoiding the question or whatnot, but you said Gouki was beaten by Gouken, then he pulled off shungokusatsu, again PLEASE PROVIDE THE QUOTE ON HOW THE FIGHT WENT FROM A RELIABLE SOURCE <--- Read and reply please.
Young Ryu and Ken watched the fight, believing Gouken would win, and the match ended with Gouken's final blow, leaving Gouki sprawling on the ground. Then Gouki said something about how they MUST come to blows again 'in this lifetime'. Gouken looks on, then said "When that man's power goes beyond mine, the great disaster you both (Ryu and Ken) must face with your own power... the power which I will pass on to you... "Wa ga ken no Subete o (All that is what my fist is), Hadou no Chikara o! (The power of the Hadou!)." This is way before Gouki comes back to kill Gouken, by the way.
There you have it, I apparently did not remember correctly –but it’s moot, really, considering the evidence I provided below.
Originally posted by Terryc250
No, a lot of the times they just have their eyes open stupid and took it, or he shot it and they couldn't avoid it in time
The whole reason why they couldn’t avoid it in time, a lot of the time, was because of instant transmission.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Well see:
Instant Transmission
Transmit = to send or forward, as to a recipient or destination; dispatch; convey.
Hence, Instantly send to a destination
Instant Transmission.
It describes the move perfectly.
Once again, your obsession with replying seems to cloud your judgement.
Originally posted by Terryc250
No i'm stating out the truth, i originally asked you to show me "[b]proof", non-canon things are not "proof" [/b]
My proof is shown below.
Originally posted by Terryc250
Yes, unless it has been proven to be canon, they're non-canon, or else we'd have people like Zack doing this to opponents:
Or Cloud busting out Knights of the round on everyone
Originally posted by Terryc250
"Might" doesn't help an arguments, "might" is where we start at, everyone is a possibility, Sephiroth MIGHT beable to bust a planet, but him doing it in Kingdom Hearts wouldn't help a debate at all if the debate is with FF7 Sephiroth.
Originally posted by Terryc250This is also from SFZ2
Master Goutetsu spoke of a forbidden technique, "shungokusatsu." With this move, it was said that one's own life would be cut off in a moment of unparalleled intensity. That is, control utilized by "satsui no hadou", was said to run wildly until that life's very end.
Gouki, pronouncing all ancestors "fools" for sealing this "shungokusatsu," selected his path to break that ban on his own.So it seems the description of "instant" in the name actually refers to what i've thought all along, the instant in "instant hell murder", actually refers to when the person is caught: "one's own life would be cut off in a moment of unparalleled intensity."
Thats the description from GOUKETSU himself, perhaps him AND the ancestors have never before experienced "Shun Goku Satsu" before and named it incorrectly, Gouketsu thought it only took a "moment", maybe the ancestors did too thus they put the "instant" in the name. Either way, Gouketsu and the ancestors thought it only took a "moment" and THEY were the ones who named it what it is. [/B]
This doesn’t disprove anything I just said, not even remotely – so I’m not entirely sure why you brought it up at all; unless you're suggesting that the victim dies before the final hell (which is folly).
Shungokusatsu, according to the official statements, the course of the move still takes several hours as you can see from the passage I just posted.
Shungokusatsu, according to the official statements, drags their victim through all of the hells where demons rapidly beat up on the victim – ending up in the final, most eternal and hottest hell, where the victim is finally killed.
--
"Who exists that is stronger" now became the wish, and this request would be answered with the spraying of blood incited by training.
The forbidden move was done. He selected Master Goutetsu as his opponent. As there was about to be a fight to the death, the opponent had no deficiencies.
".....arm yourself now!!"
The spirit kept secretly inside exploded, the cells of Gouki's entire body rose in sound with a resonating sensation...several hours later, Gouki's entire body in blood returned a scarlet hue, as he moved and saw the master's corpse.
Hadou's ultimate move "shungokusatsu," armed with "satsui no hadou" that
struck the master, was complete.
From then on, Gouki walked the long "path of carnage's" first walk.
--
Undeniable proof, no loopholes.