DE Sidious vs ROTS Yoda, Mace, Anakin, and Obi Wan

Originally posted by Gideon
In the prequel trilogy, Palpatine obliterates an entire batallion of stormtroopers and disintegrates Sith acolytes casually. In Dark Empire, he mortally wounds Jedi with instantaneous blasts in a time when he is "barely able to walk" and where each usage of the Force "brings him closer to death."

And just to add to that gideon, palpatine wiped out an entire battalion of storm troopers while diverting the lightning from killing his own men whom were scattered all over the place.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Talking to Schwarzenegger is like dealing with a child but you, you are fun so let us debate.

We aren't debating. I am wasting my time by making logical points. You are being a moron. That isn't debating.

A definite appropriate statement showing that you are purely full of yourself. I like that because it will be very nice to humble someone like you.

Yeah, right. The guy who actually agrees with the outcome you proposed is spending all of his time bringing you to task for your stupidity. Do you expect to humble me through your failure? Nice strategy.

Wrong you have not. If anyone sarcasm was inappropriate it was yours. As for all of your sarcasm and little jokes, believe me you do not want to get into that with me.

You are the very definition of intimidating. I must admit, the idea of you spawning and submitting this world to your retarded descendents is a very frightening thought. Though the possibility of you having sex seems to be as likely as you making a proper syllogism here. 'Impossible' comes to mind.

So far, once again your statements show nothing!

LOL, I can do that to.

YOU ARE WRONG! NANANANANANA.

Finally you decide to address the topic. Anakin and Obi Wan vs DE Sidious no doubt would be destruction for Anakin and Obi Wan. However there are two more people who are more powerful than Anakin and Obi Wan, Yoda and Mace who DE Sidious has to contend with.

You're mildly retarded; we're back to square one. Kenobi and Skywalker are irrelevant.

So tell me as DE Sidious is using telekinesis on Obi Wan or Anakin or both at the same time, would that not leave him open to Mace and Yoda?

Because rushing and spearing your more powerful, stronger, smarter, and faster opponent will take less time for him to wave his ****ing hand. I have to ask, who can I attribute your depressingly low IQ to? Your mom or dad?

Also while DE Sidious throws one or both of them, Yoda could one save one or two while Mace engages DE Sidious who is left open. So I do not see how telekinesis or force lighting would be able to save DE Sidious from engaging in a saber fight.

That is because, clearly, you are retarded and clearly seek to make some sort of convoluted statement about how the retarded shall inherit the earth.

I do not know where you get the Kotor thing from, but I do like kotor as I believe everyone else here does.

Incapable of reading your username?

Gideon are not cops keepers of peace? There are government agencies that focus on terrorism that can be considered keepers of peace. They are all soldiers, trained in a specific duty to protect but there abilities can cause them to kill someone who disturbs the peace or law.

So tell me, in star wars Jedi are different? They help the republic to fight against enemies and sith. They are trained to protect but there abilities can cause them to kill which they will do at times. Jedi are not monks or priest.

Windu says Jedi aren't soldiers. Windu overrules you. Period.

Oh Gideon hopefully you have better responses then the ones you came up with in this post. You need to stop praising yourself and look at your arguments.

Jesus Christ. You're like a retarded mime. You just rehashed my earlier insult and tried to use it against me? Your score drops due to lack of originality.

Oh damn, the raging kotor fanboy just got

Muahahahahahaha.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Lightsnake I want to address this one to you. I have seen different responses but how much more powerful is DE Sidious to ROTS Sidious?

A tremendous difference. At this point, Palpatine's mastery of the Force is unrivalled in the whole of the mythos. I took the time to answer this question before when you asked it, and gave specific examples. Thank you for proving that you apparently lack the ability to comprehend information.

Also I have seen threads in which it has been argued that DE Sidious could defeat two powerful sith lords who work together to defeat him such as, Revan and Bane. People would argue that Yoda and Mace could fair well if not defeat Revan and Bane.

Darth Bane and Darth Revan have access to offensive Force powers and techniques that Windu and Yoda do not, regardless of how their strength in the Force compares. Moreover, Bane has his orbalisks.

I guess my next question is even if Obi Wan and Anakin were taken out by force lighting could DE Sidious defeat Mace and Yoda?

Yes. My arguments (which you have failed to address) prove it. Though he certainly doesn't have unlimited time to do so. Thank yuo for proving that you apparently lack the ability to comprehend information.

I have no problem continuing this debate with you all. But each of you have demonstrated a certain disregard to comprehend simple fact (and, in the case of kotor3, complete unwillingness to do so). I am not interested in your hypotheticals, because we can only get to that once you have acknowledged the truth. This whole mess, particularly, about how Obi-Wan and Anakin will be useful in the fight has reached new levels of stupidity. Faunus, someone who sides with the pro-Jedi side, has essentially told you that you're being ****ing stupid. You need to stop being dense.

Great Vengeance, Faunus essentially proved all of my points to you. I am getting tired of dealing with your ignorance of the source material. Don't attack me or my argument until you know what the **** it is you're talking about. Question me all you like, but you're not in a position to say "NO YOU ARE WRONG!" until you're familiar with canon. You're not. Quit making an ass out of yourself and debate me the right way. I will handle your further posts, but I feel no need to readdress the old.

In regards to the claim that Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker will be challenging opponents:

In lightsaber combat only (as I have stated numerous times before, were this a sheer lightsaber match, the Emperor would be annihilated to an unquantifiable degree). Numerous sources have given us accolades of how effective Kenobi and Skywalker were as a duo, how well they knew one another's moves and styles and could complement their strengths and weaknesses. Yet, Revenge of the Sith displayed that they were coordinated only to fight large numbers of enemies, not an individual gifted with the strength of the dark side of the Force -- something Count Dooku observes and muses verbatim. Despite being pushed back, desperate, and on the verge of total shut down, Dooku manages to easily toss Kenobi aside twice throughout the duel via telekinesis; the second time he does this, he also simultaneously incapacitates Skywalker through his greater command of the Force.

Here, we are dealing with Emperor Palpatine circa Dark Empire. Not only is he the greatest proponent of self preservation, but he is more powerful than the Count many times over. It is not up for debate. So, if Dooku was able to defeat/incapacitate them with the Force in a state of desperation, what the hell makes you think that they'd somehow be able to resist the Force as commanded by a vastly more powerful opponent?

Conclusion: they can't and you're being completely ridiculous.

Your conclusion is irrelevant. There are two more combatants that Sidious has to deal with here. Even if we use your example of Dooku Force Gripping and tossing Obi-Wan away, in the time it took to do that Anakin was on him instantly afterwards in a saber duel. He could have engaged him even sooner, if he hadn't stopped and turned around to watch what was happening to his friend. You're going to tell me that Yoda and Mace, both of whom are incredibly fast (especially when Mace is submerged in Vaapad), could not cross the distance and engage Sidious in a saber duel while he's dealing with Obi and Ani? If so, that's what is ridiculous. Furthermore, as I've already said two or three times now, Yoda and Mace aren't going to stand there and watch Sidious do such a thing. They have Force attacks, too, you know. Mace's demostration of Force Crush and Yoda's demonstration of Force Push on Sidious himself show that. Even if they don't rush in to cross blades, they're going to counter-attack and screw up his concentration.

In regards to Palpatine and Force lightning:

Palpatine, in Revenge of the Sith, demonstrated the ability to knock out the most powerful Jedi in history with a single burst. And later casually disarmed that same Jedi Master with a single gout. Moreover, despite Mace Windu's incredible physique (which is great enough that he could destroy entire armies of super battle droids with his bare hands), his greater position (he was standing over the Dark Lord), armed with a lightsaber, submerged in Vaapad (that gave him access to a superconducting loop), he was still nearly killed by the Emperor who was: a.) on his ass, b.) in incredible pain, and c.) feigned weakness. In the original trilogy, Palpatine obliterates an entire batallion of stormtroopers and disintegrates Sith acolytes casually. In Dark Empire, he mortally wounds Jedi with instantaneous blasts in a time when he is "barely able to walk" and where each usage of the Force "brings him closer to death."

Conclusion: the Jedi can't handle his lightning with or without a lightsaber. Accept it and move on.

Except that your conclusion isn't true at all. Even when Mace is defenseless and Sidious hits him with the full power of his Force Lightning, he does not get vaporized, he does not die. He gets thrown out of the window by its power and falls to his death. I've already listed five examples of his lightning not killing powerful Force users. Here's two more: in Dark Empire itself, he hits Leia with Force Lightning. He hits Luke with Force Lightning. Both survive. Granted, he wasn't trying to kill either of them. But Leia was pregnant. She wasn't harmed at all. Neither was Anakin Jr.

The team survives his Force assult long enough to close the distance for a duel. Then Sidious dies. Or, Sidious' defense goes down while he's using the Force to harm someone on the team, and Yoda or someone else counter-attacks with the Force before he can do any permanant harm. He can't win.

Originally posted by Enyalus[/i]
Your conclusion is irrelevant.

It really isn't.

Look, Enyalus, you seem rather smarter than kotor3 here, which is interesting since you use the same retarded syllogism that he does. Don't tell me that my statements are irrelevant when your own ally in this debate, who shares the same opinion of the end result that you do, is siding with me on prescribed logic. That is the very definition of failure on your part to prove your point. Even Lightsnake, who hasn't sided one way or the other, is agreeing with my logic. Not yours. You are not doing your job. Don't lecture those of us who do. That will get you ignored by the rest of us.

There are two more combatants that Sidious has to deal with here. Even if we use your example of Dooku Force Gripping and tossing Obi-Wan away, in the time it took to do that Anakin was on him instantly afterwards in a saber duel. He could have engaged him even sooner, if he hadn't stopped and turned around to watch what was happening to his friend.

I seem to be repeating myself. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. I'm clearly insane since my expectation here is for you to comprehend this. Count Dooku was able to overpower the Jedi Order's greatest and most experienced duo, despite the fact that he was driven back and on the verge of a shut down. Do you understand? He was being overwhelmed by lightsabers and still managed to use the Force at a point where he was almost comatose from a lack of energy to continue the fight. Emperor Palpatine is far more powerful than Dooku and will not be so desperate. If Dooku can do it with simple telekinesis, Palpatine can do it as well, with more permenant results.

Stop being dense.

You're going to tell me that Yoda and Mace, both of whom are incredibly fast (especially when Mace is submerged in Vaapad),

I've proven that it took numerous seconds for Windu to submerge himself in Vaapad to counter Sidious circa RotS. It's not instantaneous nor is it close. I'll also point out that it will undoubtably take him even longer to match the even greater physicality and conditioning of Palpatine circa DE. Only Yoda is remotely as fast as Sidious, and that was circa RotS. Nothing indicates he's as fast as Sidious here. Your entire point relies on flaws and the unprovable. I'm not going to assume that they can compete with the reborn Emperor in speed until you prove it.

Stop being dense.

could not cross the distance and engage Sidious in a saber duel while he's dealing with Obi and Ani? If so, that's what is ridiculous.

What's ridiculous is that you are blindly assuming Windu and Yoda rival the Galactic Emperor in speed now and that they will be all over him in the time it takes him to wave his hand. Stop using kotor3's copyrighted brand of immeasurable stupidity.

Furthermore, as I've already said two or three times now, Yoda and Mace aren't going to stand there and watch Sidious do such a thing.

They won't have a choice. You can't prove they can move faster than it takes him to wave his hand.

Stop being dense.

They have Force attacks, too, you know. Mace's demostration of Force Crush

Windu doesn't compete with the Emperor in terms of Force strength, potential, affinity, or mastery. Prove that his Force crush on the likes of General Grievous will work on the Emperor.

Stop being dense.

and Yoda's demonstration of Force Push on Sidious himself show that.

Palpatine was Force pushed across the room when he was laughing he wasn't in combat stance nor does anything indicate that he was prepared for it. Moreover, that was Revenge of the Sith-era Palpatine. Prove he can do it here.

Stop being dense.

Even if they don't rush in to cross blades, they're going to counter-attack and screw up his concentration.

They won't cross blades initially. Prove it.

Except that your conclusion isn't true at all.

Yes, you're clearly a master logician...

Even when Mace is defenseless and Sidious hits him with the full power of his Force Lightning, he does not get vaporized, he does not die.

RotS-era Sidious. Not DE.

Stop being dense.

I've already listed five examples of his lightning not killing powerful Force users. Here's two more: in Dark Empire itself, he hits Leia with Force Lightning. He hits Luke with Force Lightning. Both survive. Granted, he wasn't trying to kill either of them. But Leia was pregnant. She wasn't harmed at all. Neither was Anakin Jr.

Oh, Jesus Christ. You're hopeless.

a.) "HE WASN'T TRYING TO KILL EITHER ONE OF THEM" pretty much sums this the **** up, doesn't it?

b.) Since when does being pregnant with a phenomenally powerful child weaken either parent or child? Prove it.

The team survives his Force assult long enough to close the distance for a duel.

Nope. Prove it. And stop being dense.

Then Sidious dies.

Nope. Prove it. And stop being dense.

Or, Sidious' defense goes down while he's using the Force to harm someone on the team, and Yoda or someone else counter-attacks with the Force before he can do any permanant harm.

Nope. Prove it. And stop being dense.

He can't win.

Nope. Prove it. And stop being dense.

This is the final time we're going over this. Reevaluate your argument and make your points better or make new ones. But anything that makes me repeat myself verbatim will just put you permenantly on ignore. I have no respect for intentional stupidity, regardless of who it is from.

This is getting absurd. I think I've posted that same bit on Dooku at least five times, with the same results - nothing.

I leave this to you, I'm done here.

Originally posted by Faunus
This is getting absurd. I think I've posted that same bit on Dooku at least five times, with the same results - nothing.

I leave this to you, I'm done here.

I'm about to that point as well. Between us, how many times have we mentioned the same shit?

Not enough, apparently.

Originally posted by Faunus
Not enough, apparently.

Gotta shoot for that one hundred and twenty mark, apparently.

I think I have north of 300 posts here in less than ten days. The Spartans would be disappointed, and would probably gladly kick these people into deep, deep holes.

I'm somewhat surprised at Enyalus. He's very intelligent from what I'd seen at first, but he's eroding my faith by the post.

Originally posted by Faunus
I'm somewhat surprised at Enyalus. He's very intelligent from what I'd seen at first, but he's eroding my faith by the post.

Agreed. But some people are so ambitious to make a good impression by proving us "oldies" wrong that they forget why we're reputed in the first place.

Though I am ashamed of my own dogged persistence.

Dude, you're Janus Jr. Admit it. And hats off for it.

Originally posted by Faunus
Dude, you're Janus Jr. Admit it. And hats off for it.

I'd say I'm better and worse than Janus in my own ways. Sorgo used to be really impressed with my persistence. But it's a double edged sword. I tend to outlast most of my opponents, but at what cost? I'm so driven to be proven right that I sometimes turn into an egomaniac.

Originally posted by Faunus
I think I have north of 300 posts here in less than ten days. The Spartans would be disappointed, and would probably gladly kick these people into deep, deep holes.

I'm somewhat surprised at Enyalus. He's very intelligent from what I'd seen at first, but he's eroding my faith by the post.

Pfft, the only 'deep holes' the Spartans would have been concerned with were-

...I've said too much

Originally posted by Gideon
I'd say I'm better and worse than Janus in my own ways. Sorgo used to be really impressed with my persistence. But it's a double edged sword. I tend to outlast most of my opponents, but at what cost? I'm so driven to be proven right that I sometimes turn into an egomaniac.

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

Hehe, good old days, eh?

I am still a nice guy. And, incidentally, I'm still considered rather patient. Just not with intentionally dense folks. 😛

You? Nice? Yeah, right. And John McCain's VP pick is going to get every woman in America voting Republican.