Sith Force Tournament

Originally posted by Lightsnake

Moreover, quantify Revan's feats. Impressive? Yes. Any direct and actual canon on them? And when was Ragnos considered even REMOTELY 'Godlike?' He kept guard by having a loyal cadre and playing factions against one another

He used force bonds on a grand scale to convert followers according to Kreia. Hes mastered precognition to the point where he could see entire battles before they happened, according to Handmaiden.

Ajunta Pall said Revans power was 'blinding' to him. Jolee could see the force swirling around Revan.

He slaughters the sith academy by himself, along with the defenses of the SF and an empowered Malak.

"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul." -Kreia

Revan ripped the rakatans language from their skulls, and then forces them to understand basic. A subtle and unprecedented use of the force.

Revans holocron alone was enough to make Bane powerful, and since Bane learned techniques like thought bomb from Revans holocron, it follows that Revan would be able to use them also.

So if you take all these points together you can see Revans one bad dude. On to Ragnos.

Its obvious here that Nadd and Ludo obeyed Ragnos unquestionably. Notice they are bowing down to him, and the Sith respect power nothing else.

"...In death, his grandeur even what he had achieved over a century of iron rule." -The Narrator

When Ragnos interrupts the fight between Ulic and Exar Kun, he states "It matters not who I am, my power is all that concerns you." And then he precedes to iniate them into true sith hood.

Obviously Ragnos is a great and illustrious figure in his own time. If we cant establish that, your just being a blind Sids fanboy.

EDIT

I'm not trying to second guess you OR Gideon, but that last quote almost sounded like it was from Test of Wills. No matter how skilled the fanfiction author may be, we all know that it is not considered cannon.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
He used force bonds on a grand scale to convert followers according to Kreia. Hes mastered precognition to the point where he could see entire battles before they happened, according to Handmaiden.

Ajunta Pall said Revans power was 'blinding' to him. Jolee could see the force swirling around Revan.

He slaughters the sith academy by himself, along with the defenses of the SF and an empowered Malak.

"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul." -Kreia

Revan ripped the rakatans language from their skulls, and then forces them to understand basic. A subtle and unprecedented use of the force.

Revans holocron alone was enough to make Bane powerful, and since Bane learned techniques like thought bomb from Revans holocron, it follows that Revan would be able to use them also.

So if you take all these points together you can see Revans one bad dude. On to Ragnos.

Its obvious here that Nadd and Ludo obeyed Ragnos unquestionably. Notice they are bowing down to him, and the Sith respect power nothing else.

"...In death, his grandeur even what he had achieved over a century of iron rule." -The Narrator

When Ragnos interrupts the fight between Ulic and Exar Kun, he states "It matters not who I am, my power is all that concerns you." And then he precedes to iniate them into true sith hood.

Obviously Ragnos is a great and illustrious figure in his own time. If we cant establish that, your just being a blind Sids fanboy.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
From gideon who took it out from one of the sources. Remember, he is far more credible than almost anybody on KMC.

Notice that LS didn't argue my point about Palpatine NOT being all-powerful?

Gideon is a good debater, not great, but good.

I can, however, understand that since most of the elite(with the exception of Vengeance, Borbarad) have left or been banned, that he might seem awesome, when in fact he is not.

I didn't say i quote gideon as canon, i said i GOT IT from gideon who in turn got it from one of the sources, theres a BIG difference.

Wow so just because i got a quote from him and actually stated its from him and not me so it essentially means i got my head up his ass?

what do you have against me faunus? You always seem so hostile whenever i place my fingers on the keyboard.

@Great vengeance.

Out of universe sources and canon refute your bullshit claims that "revan is zeh number one" sith.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
He used force bonds on a grand scale to convert followers according to Kreia. Hes mastered precognition to the point where he could see entire battles before they happened, according to Handmaiden.

Obviously Ragnos is a great and illustrious figure in his own time. If we cant establish that, your just being a blind Sids fanboy.

He's just weaker than Palpatine.

Shut up, Roid-******.

Are you defying me, Faunus? My status as a god amongst these people cannot be disputed!

In regards to Palpatine's visit to Korriban as seen in the Emperor's Pawns, I can only respond by quoting my Master, Publius:

Originally posted by Master:Yes; Palpatine was assaulted by the ghosts of several Dark Lords on Korriban. The fact that he is the single most powerful dark side magus ever documented does not mean he is invulnerable. If a squadron of heavy cruisers sinks a battleship, does that prove that each individual cruiser is the better of the battleship?

No one is suggesting that the Emperor could annihilate a large mass of Ancient Sith in combat.

Regarding Darth Revan, I especially enjoy how people here will take quotes from fallible third parties with an established bias for Revan and dismiss more credible statements regarding Palpatine. The greatest highlight is how Great Vengeance seems inclined to argue the validity of the omniscient narrator. GV, when you can tell me where an Ancient Sith -- without assistance -- generates power surpassing or equaling that of one of Palpatine's Force Storms or where they transform a nascent planet into "one of the strongest dark side sites in the entire galaxy" due to their own dark energies during a time when they are secluded on Coruscant and slowly break the wills and enslave the twenty billion inhabitants of said planet... we'll talk. Otherwise, much as you try to disagree, what we bring to the table will always be greater.

I just can't believe it, simply because i respect you gideon, people accuse me of putting my head up your ass. Its amusing really.

The Rebels were turning out to be more troublesome than many had expected. The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith to have ever existed.

This quote was the primary discussion between me and LS. Due to the mechanics of Omniscient narrator limited its invalid because the novel in question doesnt include Revan or any other ancient Sith.

"...Yoda could defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history."

The NEC is written from an in-universe perspective. Therefore the quote came from a third party fallible source.

[i]Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting.

Yes Sids is an evil bastard, master of evil doesnt equal power.

Dark Empire sourcebook:
Dark Empire sourcebook:

"Palpatine has risen from the dead. The most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived had returned."

This one is invalid for the same reason Death Star is.

Empire's End(audio book i believe, i got this from nikkolas but hes banned now), one of the Ancient Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Ditto.

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine.

If you provide proof of this quote, Ill accept it. I wasnt aware of this one.

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: Palpatine at his peak.

Who is the 'official' that said this?

Essential Chronology: the most powerful Sith who had ever lived, Emperor Palpatine had returned from the grave."

I explained why the NEC is invalid earlier in the post.

[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.

Taming the dark side could mean alot of things. Sidious is very attune to the dark side, thats obvious but still that doesnt mean Sidious > Ragnos.

...GV, let it go. You might as well convince Rampnat Ox that Sidious could beat Dooku in a duel.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
This quote was the primary discussion between me and LS. Due to the mechanics of Omniscient narrator limited its invalid because the novel in question doesnt include Revan or any other ancient Sith.

The very fact you argue against it further shows how stupid you really are.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance

The NEC is written from an in-universe perspective. Therefore the quote came from a third party fallible source.

I love your double standards.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance

This one is invalid for the same reason Death Star is.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance

Ditto.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
[B]
Taming the dark side could mean alot of things. Sidious is very attune to the dark side, thats obvious but still that doesnt mean Sidious > Ragnos.

Ragnos did absolutely NOTHING, while palpatine could destroy entire starfleets with his force storm.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Ajunta Pall said Revans power was 'blinding' to him. Jolee could see the force swirling around Revan.

He slaughters the sith academy by himself, along with the defenses of the SF and an empowered Malak.

As for the Star Forge, blasting through droids and cannon fodder apprentices doesn't knock my socks off, though it certainly shows skill. Malak was impressive, granted.

"Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi he would slay etched on his soul." -Kreia

Revan ripped the rakatans['] language from their skulls, and then forces them to understand basic. A subtle and unprecedented use of the force.

Revans holocron alone was enough to make Bane powerful, and since Bane learned techniques like thought bomb from Revans holocron, it follows that Revan would be able to use them also.

I have no problem with Revan being considered powerful, even Mega-powerful. I just don't think we know enough for sure to call him 'UBERZ' yet.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance

"...In death, his grandeur even what he had achieved over a century of iron rule." -The Narrator

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
I just can't believe it, simply because i respect you gideon, people accuse me of putting my head up your ass. Its amusing really.

My advice would be to not let it get to you. But for the record, we have had this discussion before: you didn't get all of those quotes from me. I only quote material that I have personally seen and confirmed to exist. Some of those I'm not sure exist, hence why I don't use them.

Oh and GV, respond to lightsnakes post.

@Gideon

I understand, the previous quotes that i took from you ARE valid, its only the last one that i don't have the source to confirm it.

I'm particularly interested in his response to my post. I'm curious about the inventive excuses he will make regarding Palpatine's single-handed transformation of Byss and the potency of the Force Storm. The calvary that I expect will arrive for him will make this argument all the more interesting.

Try not to lose your cool, either.

Yea sure, i'm cool.

But reading his responses are quite amusing anyways.

I'm off the playing spore.

Sorry pal, its canon. The novel came out after kotor and it has been approved by lfl and received canon status.

Did you even read our argument? Wtf are you talking about rofl. I never said the novel wasnt canon, but due to Omniscient narrator limited the narrator cant make a broad statement about the mythos. Sigh, Ill prolly have to repeat this to you again in much simpler terms and still its doubtful that you'll get it.

LOL and kreia's labeling revan the heart of the force isn't?

The quote about Kreia wasnt meant to prove Revan was stronger than Sidious. It shows that Kreia thought he was very powerful, thats all. When you make bold claims, you need rock solid proof. You have nothing which can prove Sidious > Ragnos.

No it isn't, it isn't retconned, nor has any official made a statement claiming its not canon.

I'm not going to go through hundreds of magazine issues just to find it for you.

The fact is, you claimed revan and ragnos are the most powerful, you prove it.

Dont put words in my mouth, where did I say that? I showed evidence why both Revan and Ragnos are very powerful. Are they greater than Sids? I believe so, but atleast I have the modesty to admit that I cant prove it conclusively.

Ragnos did absolutely NOTHING, while palpatine could destroy entire starfleets with his force storm.

Implied power is just as good of evidence as feats. Its unlikely he did nothing if he was able to establish a century of iron rule (canon) among a people who only respect power.

And yes Palpatines force storm is a nice trick but its useless in close quarters, unless Sids would be willing to kill himself.

Also, get some help with your anger issues bud. Your taking this shit too seriously.