Sith Force Tournament

Several of your sources are bullshit and invalid.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
"...Yoda could defeat the [b]most powerful Sith Lord in history."
-- The New Essential Chronology, page 84

Subjective, illogical.

Voren Na'al isn't able to compare Sidious' power to any of the Sith Lords' that preceded him, ergo his opinion cannot be used as a source. I would think the same applies to the Essential Chronology given the NEC is an update.

Empire's End(audio book i believe, i got this from nikkolas but hes banned now), one of the Ancient Sith spirits: "He gave up everything to the Dark Side long ago. He has become the greatest who ever lived. He is the strongest who ever lived....I say we give what he wishes."

Subjective, illogical.

Who was the spirit? How could he actively compare Sidious' power to others? If what DarkSerpent said was true (and it is), then it seems like some of the Ancient Sith were going to lay the smackdown on him. I don't see all of them holding the same opinion regardless.

Star Wars Insider, Kevin J. Anderson, upon asked if he ever intended his Sith to be stronger than the OT sith: No. Exar Kun, Naga Sadow and the others are on a firmly lower tier than Emperor Palpatine.

Blatant lie, idiotic.

Ignoring the stupid notion that's presented in that, this is an outright falsehood. Don't put words in people's mouths and expect it to hold any weight here, Schwarzenegger. You can't find the proof for this one because there simply is none. Lying won't help Sidious.

On TFN.net, official response to the strongest Sith: Palpatine at his peak.

Proof that this is official, not fan fiction?

Now shut up you kotor hardcore fanwanker.

I think I bashed GV back in the day, but he's quite clearly got a point now. So instead of Gideon's ass, perhaps you need to pull your head out of your own.

Originally posted by Advent
I think I bashed GV back in the day, but he's quite clearly got a point now. So instead of Gideon's ass, perhaps you need to pull your head out of your own.

For the record, I just checked, and no one's head is in my ass. As far as Great Vengeance's point is concerned, Advent, please enlighten those of us (such as myself) who are either too stupid to comprehend or too blind to see.

GV, much as I would love to knock the Sidious fanboys off their high horses, I have a serious question.

You said "Due to the mechanics of Omniscient narrator limited its invalid because the novel in question doesnt include Revan or any other ancient Sith." and invalidated several quotes this way. What is the difference between those quotes and the Tales of the Jedi 'Most powerful of the powerful' quote?

Originally posted by Advent
Several of your sources are bullshit and invalid.

Subjective, illogical.

Voren Na'al isn't able to compare Sidious' power to any of the Sith Lords' that preceded him, ergo his opinion cannot be used as a source. I would think the same applies to the Essential Chronology given the NEC is an update.

Subjective, illogical.

Who was the spirit? How could he actively compare Sidious' power to others? If what DarkSerpent said was true (and it is), then it seems like some of the Ancient Sith were going to lay the smackdown on him. I don't see all of them holding the same opinion regardless.

Blatant lie, idiotic.

Ignoring the stupid notion that's presented in that, this is an outright falsehood. Don't put words in people's mouths and expect it to hold any weight here, Schwarzenegger. You can't find the proof for this one because there simply is none. Lying won't help Sidious.

Proof that this is official, not fan fiction?

I think I bashed GV back in the day, but he's quite clearly got a point now. So instead of Gideon's ass, perhaps you need to pull your head out of your own. [/B]

@GV, ill get back to you later

He couldn't see Malak open fire on him and he had defeats. He's a brilliant tactician, yes. This doesn't translate to power

We know he's powerful. And? At his best, he's still canonically weaker than Yoda

No hes not. The ROTS novel operates under omniscient narrator limited also, and the Yoda quote doesnt apply to his pre kotor dark side incarnation.

He slaughtered the Sith Academy? Canon proof?

this means...what, exactly? Quotes like this are great, but I can match them with plenty Palp quotes

'Unprecedented?' This isn't hard for Force users

Show me an example of somone else doing it then.

They're ancient rituals, not 'techniques.' Revan would know how to use them, sure, but it's not something you pull off in combat

Nobody ever denied Revan's powerful.
He is, however, canonically weaker than Yoda according to the ROTS novelization-Revan as a Jedi>Revan as a Sith Lord and Yoda is the canonically most powerful Jedi

Quote doesnt apply to DS pre kotor Revan. No canon source says LS Revan > DS Revan the quote comes from Malak, a fallible third party source.

And? So he was Dark Lord there. Ludo is a comparative weakling to plenty of people, too. Their straight combat feats aren't so hot. And they're shocked he's even appeared

He wasnt dark lord anymore, he was a deceased spirit. You asked why I thought Ragnos was considered godlike in his own era, and I gave you the proof. And to say that Ludo or Sadow are weak is entirely your opinion.

The pomp and circumstance was something. This has no bearing on power

And? Again, how does this translate to 'more powerful than Palpatine?

I never said that I possessed conclusive evidence Ragnos was more powerful than Palpatine. But your using double standards as you have no proof Sidious > Ragnos either. Im not going to keep debating omniscient narrator limited with you, its simply the way things work.

Yes, those pesky Sidious fanboys. I mean, it's not like calling the guy who corrupted a planet and enslaved its billions of inhabitants from across the galaxy, manhandled three of the Jedi's greatest swordsmen in seconds, battled the creator of the deadliest lightsaber form to a standstill despite the fact that he hadn't touched a lightsaber in over a decade, as well as stalemated the most powerful Jedi ever, survived an explosion capable of blowing up a tower from an individual capable of ungodly feats, creates Force Storms capable of disintegrating state-of-the-art warships with shields resisting gigatons of energy, and was the imbalance in the Force -- and would rule the galaxy twice -- the greatest and most powerful Sith Lord ever has any merit to it.

Bane used the Thought Bomb and the Strom ritual, but he said that many of the techniques were too terrifying to use period.

So Revan might have any reservations using these while Bane obviulsy would.
Also, one must wonder, if the Thought Bomb and the Storm apparrently were not the most terrifying, then what in Sith royal ****-ery was so much so that Bane was scared to used them when he wasn't scared of mentioned techniques!?

Originally posted by Gideon
Yes, those pesky Sidious fanboys. I mean, it's not like calling the guy who corrupted a planet and enslaved its billions of inhabitants from across the galaxy, manhandled three of the Jedi's greatest swordsmen in seconds, battled the creator of the deadliest lightsaber form to a standstill despite the fact that he hadn't touched a lightsaber in over a decade, as well as stalemated the most powerful Jedi ever, survived an explosion capable of blowing up a tower from an individual capable of ungodly feats, creates Force Storms capable of disintegrating state-of-the-art warships with shields resisting gigatons of energy, and was the imbalance in the Force -- and would rule the galaxy twice -- the greatest and most powerful Sith Lord ever has any merit to it.

Yes, but unfortunately for those Sidious fanboys, he only actually manages to rule it once. And 90% of it was due to a keen political mind, rather than strength in the Force.

But, I do agree that calling him the most powerful Sith Lord ever has merit. Saying that he 'waves his hand' and destroys four PT era Council members, does not. Nor do several other Sidious fanboy statements and exaggerations which certain people have made around here that are equally ridiculous to the statements such as "Exar Kun can destroy the entire PT Council by himself" and Ancient Sith induced fanwanking.

Someone actually hasn't read Dark Empire. Despite having, technically, a lesser military, he manages to subdue the New Republic and drive them back to guerilla warfare, conquering the majority of the galaxy, "winning his war of conquest." Second time... and he does it in one year.

Originally posted by Gideon
Someone actually hasn't read Dark Empire. Despite having, technically, a lesser military, he manages to subdue the New Republic and drive them back to guerilla warfare, conquering the majority of the galaxy, "winning his war of conquest." Second time... and he does it in one year.

Last I checked, they were able to destroy a vast amount of Palpatine's world breakers thanks to Luke Skywalker's double-crossings and codes programmed into R2-D2. The New Republic still existed. And was still large.

Originally posted by Advent
Several of your sources are bullshit and invalid.

Subjective, illogical.

Voren Na'al isn't able to compare Sidious' power to any of the Sith Lords' that preceded him, ergo his opinion cannot be used as a source. I would think the same applies to the Essential Chronology given the NEC is an update.

Subjective, illogical.

Who was the spirit? How could he actively compare Sidious' power to others? If what DarkSerpent said was true (and it is), then it seems like some of the Ancient Sith were going to lay the smackdown on him. I don't see all of them holding the same opinion regardless.

Blatant lie, idiotic.

Ignoring the stupid notion that's presented in that, this is an outright falsehood. Don't put words in people's mouths and expect it to hold any weight here, Schwarzenegger. You can't find the proof for this one because there simply is none. Lying won't help Sidious.

Proof that this is official, not fan fiction?

I think I bashed GV back in the day, but he's quite clearly got a point now. So instead of Gideon's ass, perhaps you need to pull your head out of your own. [/B]

I'm wouldn't argue with this titan if I were you.

Enyalus, seriously, for five minutes, stop acting like an obstinate moron. Did I say that Palpatine went without losses? No. Are you apparently ignorant of the extremely obvious fact (stated numerous times) that Palpatine was aware of Skywalker's treachery and was manipulating him the whole time? That they managed to destroy a World Devastator or two is hardly tantamount to winning a galactic war. I'm actually embarrassed that you'd bring that up to try to refute the idea that Palpatine drove the New Republic into hiding.

Originally posted by Gideon
Enyalus, seriously, for five minutes, stop acting like an obstinate moron. Did I say that Palpatine went without losses? No. Are you apparently ignorant of the extremely obvious fact (stated numerous times) that Palpatine was aware of Skywalker's treachery and was manipulating him the whole time? That they managed to destroy a World Devastator or two is hardly tantamount to winning a galactic war. I'm actually embarrassed that you'd bring that up to try to refute the idea that Palpatine didn't drive the New Republic into hiding.

You initially implied, without directly saying (nicely covering your ass again 😉) that Palpatine conquered the galaxy twice. You then went on to add that he "subdued" the New Republic...not true. And that he reconquered the majority of the galaxy. Which is also not true. He had most of the Core, and that's pretty much the extent of it. It was even stated that he wanted to launch his attack in waves...at the end of Dark Empire, he hadn't done so yet.

The rest of that post is a really poorly constructed strawman. Of course I'm aware that Palpatine was aware of Skywalker's treachery. I never suggested otherwise. I can cover my ass, too.

Originally posted by Great Vengeance
Malaks betrayal was the only known tactical mistake that he made. And handmaidens word > you regarding his abilities. Yes tactical mastery doesnt translate to power, but his mastery of precog does.

I never said that I possessed conclusive evidence Ragnos was more powerful than Palpatine. But your using double standards as you have no proof Sidious > Ragnos either. Im not going to keep debating omniscient narrator limited with you, its simply the way things work.

Lemme get this through your insanely thick skull:
1. Narrator quotes are made by the omniscient narrator, NOT LIMITED in any way since it's not from a character's POV which is the one limitation to usual third party limitation and takes a God's eye view of the mythos. It declares Palpatine the most powerful.

End of story, kindly shut up now.

I'm not interested in continuing an argument when you're unwilling to look at the facts. Palpatine drove the New Republic leadership into hiding, he forced numerous worlds to rejoin the Empire, he was "winning his war of conquest" according to tNEC. He was winning, it's time you accept it. 😉

Yeah, in DE 2...they're the 'rebel alliance' again

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah, in DE 2...they're the 'rebel alliance' again

What Enyalus means to say is that the New Republic adopted this name because they thought it was catchier. Since they clearly still dominated the galaxy, they were entitled to name changes. Adds to the drama, you see.

Originally posted by Schwarzenegger
I didn't say i quote gideon as canon, i said i GOT IT from gideon who in turn got it from one of the sources, theres a BIG difference.

Wow so just because i got a quote from him and actually stated its from him and not me so it essentially means i got my head up his ass?

[b]what do you have against me faunus? You always seem so hostile whenever i place my fingers on the keyboard.
[/B]

We've had great discussions, and I have nothing against you personally. But quite frankly, this is getting on my nerves. Coupled with the vehement and unbelievably stupid anti-Bane and anti-Sidious bitching going on, plus Dark Serpent posting in as massive font as possible just to be a dick, I get annoyed pretty quickly here.

Originally posted by Gideon
What Enyalus means to say is that the New Republic adopted this name because they thought it was catchier. Since they clearly still dominated the galaxy, they were entitled to name changes. Adds to the drama, you see.

😄 Perfect. Exactly what I had meant. I'm so glad you're able to understand me.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How do you think Jedi understand every language spoken? They let the Force translate for them.

2) How is understanding a language remotely similar to forcibly implanting it in its entirety into someone's mind?