Originally posted by Gideon
In terms of swordsmanship only. He'd likely manhandle his former self in a contest of the Force.
We agree there.
I simply don't think that such dominance in the Force would be as effective against Shaak Ti as it would his younger, I-stalemated-Obi-wan-in-a-Force-contest, self.
Thereby giving Ti the win.
Originally posted by Enyalus
We agree there.I simply don't think that such dominance in the Force would be as effective against Shaak Ti as it would his younger, I-stalemated-Obi-wan-in-a-Force-contest, self.
Thereby giving Ti the win.
Except you can't prove that at all. The only arena in which she could remotely challenge Darth Vader is on Felucia.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Except you can't prove that at all. 😛
What makes you think that?
Moreover, I don't have to. It is your assertion that Shaak Ti can defeat Darth Vader; it is your burden to prove. That she nearly defeated Galen Marek? The Sith-lite improved dramatically according to the narrative after his six month period of "death" and second tier of assignments. Is she a beast? Certainly, but nothing indicates she could stand toe-to-toe with Darth Vader in combat.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
At that point, Galen was no as powerful or skillful as Vader. Shaak tI hasn't demonstrated that she could challenge Vader in sabers or Force
Okay? How much did Galen improve then? Can you quantify it? Nope. And that's completely false about her not being able to challenge a mech Vader. She was a master of at least two forms with advanced knowledge of at least one other. One of the Order's "great bladebeings." And someone ROTS Obi-Wan was extremely impressed with.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And did you see what Vader did to Kento Marek? He'd do the same to Ti...Force prowess makes quite a bit of a difference
Kento was a relatively unknown Jedi Knight. That compares with Shaak Ti, how?
Originally posted by Enyalus
Okay? How much did Galen improve then? Can you quantify it? Nope. And that's completely false about her not being able to challenge a mech Vader. She was a master of at least two forms with advanced knowledge of at least one other. One of the Order's "great bladebeings." And someone ROTS Obi-Wan was extremely impressed with.
What?
So, on the basis that Obi-Wan Kenobi was impressed with her, she is able to contend with Darth Vader. Okay. Guess Darth Maul could tool the shit out of Darth Bane and Exar Kun since he's regarded by an omniscient source (Complete Visual Guide) as one of the most dangerous Sith apprentices in galactic history and one of the most highly trained ones as well.
Kento was a relatively unknown Jedi Knight. That compares with Shaak Ti, how?
What?
So, on the basis that Kento Marek is a relatively unknown Jedi Knight, he can't compare to Shaak Ti? Guess Palpatine and Vader are leagues and leagues above and beyond Darth Bane, Marka Ragnos, and Exar Kun since they feature in quadruple the sources. Guess the same applies to Luke Skywalker circa RotJ.
In terms of swordsmanship only. He'd likely manhandle his former self in a contest of the Force.
Maybe, but all out he would lose all well. Anakin "in teh zone" Skywalker would own Suited Vader no matter what he threw against him. If he almost died at Maul's hands imagine him fighting this war machine.
So, on the basis that Kento Marek is a relatively unknown Jedi Knight, he can't compare to Shaak Ti? Guess Palpatine and Vader are leagues and leagues above and beyond Darth Bane, Marka Ragnos, and Exar Kun since they feature in quadruple the sources. Guess the same applies to Luke Skywalker circa RotJ.
The situation is quite different. If Kento Marek was something more then a ordinary jedi knight I think we would already know. I mean, his son was already more powerful then him and he had no training whatsoever. And vader even says he was weak when he found him
Originally posted by Gideon
What?So, on the basis that Obi-Wan Kenobi was impressed with her, she is able to contend with Darth Vader.
Clever. But no. Not on the basis...
Originally posted by Gideon
What?So, on the basis that Kento Marek is a relatively unknown Jedi Knight, he can't compare to Shaak Ti?
Correct. Unless you care to show me some some of his feats and what he has done which compare to Shaak Ti's skill and power?
Originally posted by EnyalusOkay? How much did Galen improve then? Can you quantify it? Nope. And that's completely false about her not being able to challenge a mech Vader. She was a master of at least two forms with advanced knowledge of at least one other. One of the Order's "great bladebeings." And someone ROTS Obi-Wan was extremely impressed with.
Kento was a relatively unknown Jedi Knight. That compares with Shaak Ti, how? [/B]
Yes. But then again, Vader was also beaten by a Tuskan Raider, a bounty hunter not named Boba Fett, and nearly lost to Darth Maul.
From what I know about Shaak Ti, she doesn't have the kind of low showings that suited Vader does.
And if you want to say Vader beats her, that's fine. I say Shaak Ti beats him. It's a hypothetical battle, afterall.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Yes. But then again, Vader was also beaten by a Tuskan Raider, a bounty hunter not named Boba Fett, and nearly lost to Darth Maul.
From what I know about Shaak Ti, she doesn't have the kind of low showings that suited Vader does.
And if you want to say Vader beats her, that's fine. I say Shaak Ti beats him. It's a hypothetical battle, afterall.
Originally posted by Enyalus
I responded to the valid parts. The rest was a strawman. It doesn't equivocate to what I was saying.
You showed such promise... and now you devolve to cop outs.
This is your original post:
Originally posted by Enyalus
And that's completely false about her not being able to challenge a mech Vader. She was a master of at least two forms with advanced knowledge of at least one other. One of the Order's "great bladebeings." And someone ROTS Obi-Wan was extremely impressed with.
You state that Shaak Ti can challenge Darth Vader and then proceeded to cite the reasons for such a notion as the level of Obi-Wan's respect for her and that she is considered one of the Jedi Order's finest swordsmen (without even mentioning the proper source).
My response to you was thus:
Originally posted by Gideon
What?So, on the basis that Obi-Wan Kenobi was impressed with her, she is able to contend with Darth Vader. Okay. Guess Darth Maul could tool the shit out of Darth Bane and Exar Kun since he's regarded by an omniscient source (Complete Visual Guide) as one of the most dangerous Sith apprentices in galactic history and one of the most highly trained ones as well.
None of that is a strawman. It's an application of your chosen logic, except mine has the benefit of being supported by cited, omniscient sources. You've got Obi-Wan's opinion.
Originally posted by Enyalus
Clever. But no. Not on the basis...
And there we have it. You just lied to me and everyone present. Moreover, you didn't even bother trying to give a valid "basis" for your opinion. Instead, you posted this:
Originally posted by Enyalus
From what I know about Shaak Ti, she doesn't have the kind of low showings that suited Vader does.And if you want to say Vader beats her, that's fine. I say Shaak Ti beats him. It's a hypothetical battle, afterall.
This is, in all honesty and without malice, the worst line of reasoning from an intelligent person I have ever seen. You charge in, guns blazing, throwing out notions and assertions ad infinitum. When called out on them, you deflect, lie, and then culminate with this: the king of all excuses. It's the equivalent of saying "I can say whatever I want because it's a hypothetical battle; respect my opinion because it is without basis."
You're arguing semantics with me, and you should know by now that it's not going to get you anywhere; you're losing it. You have two visible options: come up with a logical basis or concede the point.