Originally posted by MadMel
i thought obi-wan was sent to the agri-corps because qui-gon was at the time too caught up with his past experiences with Xanatos to choose obi-wan before his 13th birthday, the final age at which a master could choose an apprentice.. 😬
that and the fact he was dared into fighting bruck unofficially, and sent as punishment due to the false injuries that bruck claimed to have because of the fight..
Erm, not according to Nai. But, of course, you could be right.
Originally posted by GideonGideon is correct here. What he's apparently not getting across, Enyalus, is that while Force-potential is a key factor in moving at high speeds - it basically sets a cap on how fast an individual can go - that alone is not enough. One must have a high degree of control and mastery to capitalize on that power. That's how "full potential" is achieved; when raw power can actually be controlled to the greatest extent possible.
Edit: And just to clarify, Anakin hasn't demonstrated speeds of Yoda or Sidious.
While Anakin presumably had the greatest potential of anyone in the mythos, he clearly lacked a respectable grip on his power. Sidious, on the other hand, combines exceptional raw power with an absurd level of mastery. Only Yoda - nine hundred years-old, the second-greatest Force-potential in the old Order, and a nigh unparalleled control of the Force - and Luke Skywalker (duh) can definitively be said to be capable of moving at speeds comparable to those of Palpatine, and even saying Luke can is an assumption.
Originally posted by Faunus
Gideon is correct here. What he's apparently not getting across, Enyalus, is that while Force-potential is a key factor in moving at high speeds - it basically sets a cap on how fast an individual can go - that alone is not enough. One must have a high degree of control and mastery to capitalize on that power. That's how "full potential" is achieved; when raw power can actually be controlled to the greatest extent possible.While Anakin presumably had the greatest potential of anyone in the mythos, he clearly lacked a respectable grip on his power. Sidious, on the other hand, combines exceptional raw power with an absurd level of mastery. Only Yoda - nine hundred years-old, the second-greatest Force-potential in the old Order, and a nigh unparalleled control of the Force - and Luke Skywalker (duh) can definitively be said to be capable of moving at speeds comparable to those of Palpatine, and even saying Luke can is an assumption.
obviously windu did. And before anyone gives the usual "That was a superconducting loop blah bah" consider the fact that it was also his LIGHTSABER STYLE. Its what he did. It means from the second he raised his lightsaber, he was going to move at a speed that matched his opponent. It doesn't belittle his speed at all.
And to flip your last sentence, saying that Palpatine can move at the speed that Luke can is also an assumption. Doesn't make it wrong.
Windu moved as fast as Palpatine only when he was dueling him, and only because his opponent was a dark-sider. Against someone like Yoda, he would be fighting under his own power.
Of course, Shatterpoint and Labyrinth of Evil, to say nothing of the CWC, make it very clear that the man is capable of moving at absurd speeds on his own; the fact that he survived Palpatine's initial barrage and then proceeded to "overpower" him should be evidence enough of that.
Also, notice Palpatine really seems to devalue servants? In JvS, he calls Sedriss a 'moderate Force sensitive' and 'Capable errand boy' but nothing worthy of a Sith Apprentice...same Sedriss who matched Ood bnar. And he also calls Ventress an 'occasionally' capable warrior, nothing more or less.
Also...Sedriss being a descendant of Ulic is a little silly. What, did Ulic knock up some random space babe and never call back?
Originally posted by Faunus
Gideon is correct here. What he's apparently not getting across, Enyalus, is that while Force-potential is a key factor in moving at high speeds - it basically sets a cap on how fast an individual can go - that alone is not enough. One must have a high degree of control and mastery to capitalize on that power. That's how "full potential" is achieved; when raw power can actually be controlled to the greatest extent possible.While Anakin presumably had the greatest potential of anyone in the mythos, he clearly lacked a respectable grip on his power. Sidious, on the other hand, combines exceptional raw power with an absurd level of mastery. Only Yoda - nine hundred years-old, the second-greatest Force-potential in the old Order, and a nigh unparalleled control of the Force - and Luke Skywalker (duh) can definitively be said to be capable of moving at speeds comparable to those of Palpatine, and even saying Luke can is an assumption.
I disagree. Anakin shows tremendous blade speed. From the ROTS novelization:
'He retreated up them, using the higher ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.
That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture:'
And that is while Anakin is holding himself back. Dooku is clearly overwhelmed by not only Anakin's immense power, but speed. Later on, when he isn't holding back:
'In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.
Decide.
So he does.
He decides to win.
He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair.'
Just like that. He's fast enough that when he's not holding himself back, a single move ended the duel. Faster than Dooku could do anything to counter. He easily outclasses Dooku in not only power but in speed. Does Anakin have superior command of the Force over Dooku? No. Does Anakin have superior knowledge of the Force over Dooku? No. Tis power...
Now, from Path of Destruction:
'When the Zabrak's desperation turned to hopelessness, every impulse in Bane screamed with the desire to take the initiative and end the fight. Instead he let the tantalizing closeness of Sirak's defeat feed his appetite for vengeance. The hunger grew with each passing second until it became a physical pain tearing away at his insides: the dark side filled him and he felt it on the verge of ripping him apart, splitting his skin and gushing out like a fountain of blood....
He waited until the last possible second before unleashing the energy bottled up inside of him in a tremendous rush of power. He channeled it through his muscles and limbs, moving so fast it seemed as if time had stopped for the rest of the world. In the blink of an eye he knocked the saber from Sirak's hand, sliced down to shatter his forearm, then spun through and brought his saber crashing into his opponent's lower leg. It splintered under the impact and Sirak screamed as a shard of gleaming white bone sliced through muscle, sinew and finally skin...
For an instant none of the spectators was even aware of what had happened; it took their minds a moment to catch up and register the blur of action that had occurred so much quicker than their eyes could see.'
Sirak was the top apprentice at the Academy. He's very fast, and has at least a working knowledge of every Form, seeing as how during their first duel Bane is able to see him transitioning seemlessly from one form into another. Compare that to Bane who is relatively new at the academy (less than a year in), he doesn't have any holocrons to study and his command of the Force is so suspect that a few months earlier he couldn't use his Force powers at all. Yet he does this. How? He's able to channel the power of the Dark Side. He can handle it. He's powerful. Not because his knowledge of the Force is amazing.
From The Swarm War:
'the two Jedi were on one another, their lightsabers flashing toward each other's heads with all the speed and might they could summon.
That was the trouble with powerful men-especially younger ones. Awed by their own strength, they so often believed strength was the answer to every problem. Luke was older and wiser. While Raynar swung, he pivoted.
As Raynar's gold blade sliced the air where Luke's head had been, Luke's boot was kicking him behind the ankles, knocking his legs out from under him and stretching him out flat.'
Luke's raw power allows him to move at tremendous speeds. In The Unifying Force (which I don't have to quote) he's seen as wielding twenty blades at once. How is this possible? Power!
Sidious and Yoda are just, flat-out, overwhelmingly more powerful than the three other Masters sent to attack him. That's why he won.
Originally posted by Gideon
I'm about to go to bed. If that isn't your entire rebuttal, please get to work on fashioning the rest. I will handle it all tomorrow afternoon.
Um. It's probably not. I didn't relook at yours. And I have a French test tomorrow, so I need sleep soon too. 😛
But, you know...I'm not convinced that it takes superior command of the Force to move at such speeds, but hell - I'll concede the rest. I don't give a damn about Shaak Ti anyway, and Vader is cooler. 😛
New news people! I read some of the fight between Starkiller and Shaak Ti in the store (I'm cheap) and I've learnt that he didn't kill her by taking her by surprise but by sheer accident. ]
It turns out that she hits him thrice in rapid succession, once across the chest, once on the arm and once right by the eye and in response to the pain, Starkiller's arm jerks and Shaak Ti is accidently impaled.
In fact Starkiller only survives becuase he blocks the eye hit with the force, which I suppose is pretty impressive.
Oh, and he also kills a rancor with force lighning.
Originally posted by Darth Exodus
No-one interested?He also beats the holy snot out of Kazden Paratus.
Which is a remarkable feat. It is arguable, of course, but based on sheer feats alone, I would say that Kazdan Paratus demonstrated a greater command of the Force than Shaak Ti or General Kota. He was, in my opinion, the second hardest opponent available in TFU (second only to confronting Darth Vader, the second time).
When Paratus faced the Jedi Trials, he actually outwitted his Master by constructing a mechanized creature from scrap parts and easily navigated himself through the Trials, given the rank of Jedi Knight automatically. It was said that, once he designed his cobbled harness to compensate for his lack of mobility, he was able to "destroy legions of Confederacy droids" by himself. A feat that we see only Windu and Yoda perform.
Add to the fact that he constructed a life-sized replica of the Jedi Temple on Raxus Prime through the Force and empowered a vast mechanized army through the Force as well, controlling them.
In short (no pun intended), Kazdan Paratus is a beast.
Originally posted by Gideon
Which is a remarkable feat. It is arguable, of course, but based on sheer feats alone, I would say that Kazdan Paratus demonstrated a greater command of the Force than Shaak Ti or General Kota. He was, in my opinion, the second hardest opponent available in TFU (second only to confronting Darth Vader, the second time).When Paratus faced the Jedi Trials, he actually outwitted his Master by constructing a mechanized creature from scrap parts and easily navigated himself through the Trials, given the rank of Jedi Knight automatically. It was said that, once he designed his cobbled harness to compensate for his lack of mobility, he was able to "destroy legions of Confederacy droids" by himself. A feat that we see only Windu and Yoda perform.
Add to the fact that he constructed a life-sized replica of the Jedi Temple on Raxus Prime through the Force and empowered a vast mechanized army through the Force as well, controlling them.
In short (no pun intended), Kazdan Paratus is a beast.