Originally posted by King Kandy
I'd love for you to substantiate that with evidence.
Right from the Databook
The main reason why the "Sharingan" was feared by everyone, including the inhabitants of the village, is the power hidden in those eyes, able to subdue even "bijuu". Sasuke, who is rapidly mastering his skills as an Uchiha, is also gradually awakening to that cursed power.
Haku depended on his Kekke Genkai, and Naruto and Sasuke were seriously weak back then, Sasuke even outfought Haku before he used his Kekke Genkai, Haku was 3 years older then them as well. Rock Lee would've whooped both their asses at the same time, without taking any weights off, and he is only a year older.
I guess the characters all were genius' in their own ways
Shikamaru is a genius of tactical strategy
Rock Lee is a genius of hard work (?) but he also learned to open the gates which is supposedly genius level
Orochimaru, 3rd Hokage, Itachi, Kakashi, were genius' at learning shinobi jutsus, chakra, etc, typical shinobi stuff that got them high rankings very early
Haku depended on his blood line traits? And Sasuke doesn't? Haku was still able to beat 2 of the main characters when he was holding back. Haku was 3 years older so what does that prove? Sasuke trained since he was a little child to be a ninja and Haku started when he was 10 years old according to the show. Sasuke and Naruto both wanted to be ninjas and Haku only did it to feel needed. How many other characters could figure out the Sharringan and ways to counter is by looking at it one time? According to Kakashi he never seen a person use one hand to do hand seals and yet Haku could do it.
As i said Naruto is the main character, So is Sasuke so they shouldnt even be included in this topic. At the begging of the serious Naruto couldnt even do one shadow clone but then after reading that ninja scroll he could make 100's. How stupi is that? Nine Tailed Possed Naruto's speed was too much for Sasuke to handle at first but the moment Sasuke developed his sharingan to the 3 state he was able to move as fast as Naruto. Even more stupid since the show stated that just because your eyes can track a persons speed doesnt mean your body can move at that speed.
Guess what? When Might guy said Rock Lee was a taijutsu master he was just hyping up his prized pupil. According to the stats. Zabuza, Might Guy, Itachi. Kisame, Tsunade, Kimimaro ect et ect were better at Taijutsu than he was. Opening the gates doesnt make you a genius either. Are you telling me that people like Jiraiya, Kakashi, Asuma, The 3rd Hokage or any other top level ninja couldnt open the gates if they tried to learn? Its a forbidden Jutsu because it is risky to do. This isnt dragonball z where every single character does that same move over and over again.
You could also add people like Zabuza a genius at silent killings to the list. Shikamaru's dad who is smarter than Shikamaru to the list. You could name any ninja who became a genin before the age of 12 or 13 like Naruto and Sasuke did. It all depends on what you mean by genius
Originally posted by big juggy man
Haku depended on his blood line traits? And Sasuke doesn't? Haku was still able to beat 2 of the main characters when he was holding back. Haku was 3 years older so what does that prove? Sasuke trained since he was a little child to be a ninja and Haku started when he was 10 years old according to the show. Sasuke and Naruto both wanted to be ninjas and Haku only did it to feel needed. How many other characters could figure out the Sharringan and ways to counter is by looking at it one time? According to Kakashi he never seen a person use one hand to do hand seals and yet Haku could do it.
As i said Naruto is the main character, So is Sasuke so they shouldnt even be included in this topic. At the begging of the serious Naruto couldnt even do one shadow clone but then after reading that ninja scroll he could make 100's. How stupi is that? Nine Tailed Possed Naruto's speed was too much for Sasuke to handle at first but the moment Sasuke developed his sharingan to the 3 state he was able to move as fast as Naruto. Even more stupid since the show stated that just because your eyes can track a persons speed doesnt mean your body can move at that speed.
Guess what? When Might guy said Rock Lee was a taijutsu master he was just hyping up his prized pupil. According to the stats. Zabuza, Might Guy, Itachi. Kisame, Tsunade, Kimimaro ect et ect were better at Taijutsu than he was. Opening the gates doesnt make you a genius either. Are you telling me that people like Jiraiya, Kakashi, Asuma, The 3rd Hokage or any other top level ninja couldnt open the gates if they tried to learn? Its a forbidden Jutsu because it is risky to do. This isnt dragonball z where every single character does that same move over and over again.
You could also add people like Zabuza a genius at silent killings to the list. Shikamaru's dad who is smarter than Shikamaru to the list. You could name any ninja who became a genin before the age of 12 or 13 like Naruto and Sasuke did. It all depends on what you mean by genius [/B]
Originally posted by King Kandy
My only point was people are saying "well the others have Kekkei Genkai and he doesn't", and I pointed out he had a natural advantage that actually surpasses that of any other character.If Naruto was a genius, he would be able to at least make decent use of his Chakra like all the other Jinchiruki. I hope Kirabi trains him or something because I can't bear seeing him squandering his natural resources any longer.
in the world of naruto genius doesnt only mean smarts. It kinda means you yourself stands out from the rest. That is why i said lee and naruto are geniuses. These two are not the smartest of the group but they both have done things not many ninja can do. Especially at their age
Originally posted by big juggy man
Haku depended on his Kekke Genkai, and Naruto and Sasuke were seriously weak back then, Sasuke even outfought Haku before he used his Kekke Genkai, Haku was 3 years older then them as well. Rock Lee would've whooped both their asses at the same time, without taking any weights off, and he is only a year older.I guess the characters all were genius' in their own ways
Shikamaru is a genius of tactical strategy
Rock Lee is a genius of hard work (?) but he also learned to open the gates which is supposedly genius level
Orochimaru, 3rd Hokage, Itachi, Kakashi, were genius' at learning shinobi jutsus, chakra, etc, typical shinobi stuff that got them high rankings very early
Haku depended on his blood line traits? And Sasuke doesn't? Haku was still able to beat 2 of the main characters when he was holding back. Haku was 3 years older so what does that prove? Sasuke trained since he was a little child to be a ninja and Haku started when he was 10 years old according to the show. Sasuke and Naruto both wanted to be ninjas and Haku only did it to feel needed. How many other characters could figure out the Sharringan and ways to counter is by looking at it one time? According to Kakashi he never seen a person use one hand to do hand seals and yet Haku could do it.
As i said Naruto is the main character, So is Sasuke so they shouldnt even be included in this topic. At the begging of the serious Naruto couldnt even do one shadow clone but then after reading that ninja scroll he could make 100's. How stupi is that? Nine Tailed Possed Naruto's speed was too much for Sasuke to handle at first but the moment Sasuke developed his sharingan to the 3 state he was able to move as fast as Naruto. Even more stupid since the show stated that just because your eyes can track a persons speed doesnt mean your body can move at that speed.
Guess what? When Might guy said Rock Lee was a taijutsu master he was just hyping up his prized pupil. According to the stats. Zabuza, Might Guy, Itachi. Kisame, Tsunade, Kimimaro ect et ect were better at Taijutsu than he was. Opening the gates doesnt make you a genius either. Are you telling me that people like Jiraiya, Kakashi, Asuma, The 3rd Hokage or any other top level ninja couldnt open the gates if they tried to learn? Its a forbidden Jutsu because it is risky to do. This isnt dragonball z where every single character does that same move over and over again.
You could also add people like Zabuza a genius at silent killings to the list. Shikamaru's dad who is smarter than Shikamaru to the list. You could name any ninja who became a genin before the age of 12 or 13 like Naruto and Sasuke did. It all depends on what you mean by genius
ok Haku was going to lose once sasuke unlocked the sharingan because sasuke was slowly beginning to read his movements.Hence the whole attack naruto deal ending in sasuke's loss.
your whole thing on sasuke being able to keep up with naruto is dumb because look at how fast sasuke was moving against garra. Plus sasuke was also predicting naruto's movements allowing sasuke to counter attacks faster.
Originally posted by King Kandy1. Incorrect. Even Ebisu remarked in amazement that Naruto, despite Ebisu's expectations, actually WAS learning to walk on water. And no, clearly you do not know near enough about the series that you seem to think you do, as it was directly stated by Jiraiya that not only was the seal preventing Kyuubi from leaking through, but it was negatively affect Naruto's very own chakra, disrupting it. So, Naruto was quickly learning to walk on water with fvcked up chakra, and when released from the seal, did it easily.
Naruto failed trying to learn water walking until Jiraiya unlocked his Chakra, he couldn't do it relying on his own Chakra after Orochimaru sealed it away. Orochimaru's seal prevented the Kyuubi chakra from meshing with Naruto's like it was supposed to. lol, Naruto needs infinite chakra just to walk on water, which is just sad since every other character can do it just fine (Naruto still had trouble even after Jiraiya removed the seal.)lol at you using the tree-climbing as evidence of his genius. I guess by that logic the genius of Sakura is >>>>>> Either Naruto or Sasuke. We're seeing just how meaningless that feat was all the time.
We've seen just how great of a natural advantage a Biju is, the two greatest warriors of Kumogakure dominated all opponents with nothing but Biju power, so did Gaara who used his Biju gifted abilities to crush all competition. Kirabi with nothing but his Biju power decimated Sasuke (who you said had a greater natural advantage) and the two-tails gave a team of Akatsuki trouble. Four tails was nearly even with Kisame, we've seen Gaara and Kirabi, hell it's only Naruto who's Biju control fails. If he were a genius he would have maximized his use of his natural advantage by now and would be the strongest character in the series by far.
2. Sakura along with Tsunade is THE best at chakra control, not many characters rival her in that regard, as noted by Kakashi. Yet, despite the fact that Naruto had much worse chakra control than Sasuke, he managed to keep up with him in the tree climbing exercise.
3. Both of whom have at least near full control over their Biju, and Kirabi having absolute control over it. Kirabi and his Biju completely cooperate and have friendly chats, unlike Naruto and Kyuubi who hate eachother, so they are not comparable. Two Tails was captured pretty easily. And the Four Tails was fairly difficult to capture, but Kisame had to beat him to near death without killing him, and only remarked he was a bit tired. Wanna know why Naruto does not max out his Biju control? Because not only does he hate it, but if he does so, Kyuubi would be released, KILLING HIM.
since genius ninja are only labeled so due to their quick development at the beginning stages of their ninja career and effectiveness in combat, obviously there aren't that many geniuses.
orochimaru stated that sasuke was even better than he was in combat at the same age, and then he said "and they call me a genius".
of the 9 genin:
- neji hyuga
- naruto uzumaki*
- sasuke uchiha
out of the series:
- orochimaru
- itachi uvhiha
- minato namikazi(4th)
- kakashi hatake
- hiruzen saratobi* (3rd)
- hashirama senju* (1st)
- tobirama senju* (2nd)
- madara uchiha*
- nagato*
(* = unconfirmed/probably just strong ass ninjas)
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Incorrect. Even Ebisu remarked in amazement that Naruto, despite Ebisu's expectations, actually WAS learning to walk on water. And no, clearly you do not know near enough about the series that you seem to think you do, as it was directly stated by Jiraiya that not
only was the seal preventing Kyuubi from leaking through, but it was negatively affect Naruto's very own chakra, disrupting it. So, Naruto was quickly learning to walk on water with fvcked up chakra, and when released from the seal, did it easily.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/90/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/90/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/90/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/90/16/
When Jiraiya sees him, he's still failing.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/91/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/91/11/
Jiraiya talks about the seal (note how all it does is prevent chakra-mesh, not mess with Naruto's personal chakra like you said.)
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/91/12/
Oh hey, look! Even after being unsealed, Naruto can't walk on water. Jiraiya also talks about how he has sucky control:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/92/16/
Forget what Ebisu's saying and look at the facts: Naruto falls every single time. Every time. All the other characters, mind you, can do this.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. Sakura along with Tsunade is THE best at chakra control, not many characters rival her in that regard, as noted by Kakashi. Yet, despite the fact that Naruto had much worse chakra control than Sasuke, he managed to keep up with him in the tree climbing exercise.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. Both of whom have at least near full control over their Biju, and Kirabi having absolute control over it. Kirabi and his Biju completely cooperate and have friendly chats, unlike Naruto and Kyuubi who hate eachother, so they are not comparable. Two Tails was captured pretty easily. And the Four Tails was fairly difficult to capture, but Kisame had to beat him to near death without killing him, and only remarked he was a bit tired. Wanna know why Naruto does not max out his Biju control? Because not only does he hate it, but if he does so, Kyuubi would be released, KILLING HIM.
Naruto is no genius. He masters abilities like the shadow clones and the rasengan because he has the friggin nine-tailed fox inside him (which gives him a lot of chakra). Those lame speeches he gives to people that changes their lives is just luck.
Naruto is just a kid that eats ramen and makes farts that can make even Orochimaru pass out.
Originally posted by King Kandy1. "To think he'd grasp the concept of this chakra control so quickly..."
Pre-release:http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/90/12/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/90/13/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/90/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/90/16/When Jiraiya sees him, he's still failing.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/91/10/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/91/11/Jiraiya talks about the seal (note how all it does is prevent chakra-mesh, not mess with Naruto's personal chakra like you said.)
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/91/12/
Oh hey, look! Even after being unsealed, Naruto can't walk on water. Jiraiya also talks about how he has sucky control:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/92/16/
Forget what Ebisu's saying and look at the facts: Naruto falls every single time. Every time. All the other characters, mind you, can do this.
This is exactly why the "chakra control is genius" line of thought fails.
If every other Jinchiruki has near-perfect or perfect control, and Naruto has absolutely no control, then yeah... that says a lot about Naruto's "genius." Oh hey, how about Gaara? He also has a completely malevolent biju, and yet he can control it better than Naruto and also do a full-release.
-Ebisu, pointing out his incredible progression, despite his chakra being harmed.
"His chakra and the Nine-Tail's chakra are unable to mix...No wonder he can't control chakra very well."
-Jiraiya, notice how he did not mention that it lessened his chakra, instead placing more importance on how it impeded his ability to control his chakra.
You're a fvcking liar.
After having his chakra unsealed, he WAS walking on water.
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/91/14/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/91/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/92/15/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/92/16/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/92/17/
Nice, posting incomplete scans and lying to force people to believe your side.
As we can clearly see, he had used up ALL his chakra by the time he started failing, and as Jiraiya said, he did so by water walking.
Is lying in an argument a reportable offense?
2. Sakura IS a genius in that regard, hell, being 15, she is one of the best Medic-nins in the series.
3. He refuses to use it, his seal is different and he CAN'T have full control considering it would kill him, and slowly does so even when not fully released, and both hate eachother. And as for Gaara, he works in accordance with his Biju's malevolence, at least he did, which is why he was so powerful. And I would think a much weaker Biju like Shukaku would be easier to control.
Are you literate? Jiraiya says that Naruto can't control his Chakra very well, because he was cut off from his Biju. Why does that matter? Because with his Biju-enhanced Chakra, Naruto can screw up all he wants:
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/90/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/90/08/
But once he's separated from that chakra, his mess-ups start becoming more severe. Naruto never learned the precise chakra control the others have, because he never needed to. He could waste chakra all day and be fine. He could be injured and heal rapidly. There were no consequences. There's only one time we've seen Naruto with his naked chakra/stamina: when Orochimaru put a seal on him, and he failed.
Yes, he did walk on water. However, the reason why I posted the later scans was to show that walking on water is EXTREMELY TIRING for him. He did it fine for a couple seconds, but later on we see how precise control taxes him. It's just not something he really learned. And no, i'm not saying Sasuke was better while they were tree climbing. He was later though, we can see that in the diagram scans I posted.
Any time someone preforms a feat and Naruto matches it, the feat is greater for the other person, since they have a lesser supply, and need to be more delicate in their conservation of Chakra. Naruto's feats are just "whoah, he can afford to waste chakra with his admittedly terrible control but retardedly high stamina." That's why the tree-thing is actually a better feat for Sasuke, and an absolutely incredible feat for Sakura; Sakura's chakra was nothing compared to either of them.
Additionally, when that tree-feat happened, Naruto actually held all the advantage: Sasuke didn't have the Sharingan yet, but Naruto still had his monster chakra supply.