Israeli Bombing raids, over the top?

Started by Wild Shadow33 pages

seriously if you open and take a course in religion of the world you will see historical facts of so called prosecution.. some of it was earned and at its worse was not but their has bn documented history for thousands of yrs of dangerous fundamentalist mentality... that has not changed in any way especially in that part of the world. i have never heard of a zion conspiracy..at it most basic fundamental core it is xenophopic and highly dangerous mentality to have..

what i do know about zion is the fundamental belief of all jews and their holy land that i have studied in my courses of the judeo religion.

I don't care how much you say you have 'studied' it, making blanket statements about all Jews wanting this or that which you make out to be some great evil thing is nothing short of pure bigoted prejudice and it will not be accepted or tolerated, ok? So cut it out.

Does anyone have anything progressive to say here? Because just spreading Jew-hate is not the damn point of the thread, this is a political issue.

Wild Shadow, I agree that religion in general is bad, not the Jews, not the Christians, etc.

Religion in general is bad.

There are good things, but through out the ages, it has been the tool of war and contentious conduct.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Does anyone have anything progressive to say here? Because just spreading Jew-hate is not the damn point of the thread, this is a political issue.

How about I spread my "hate" all over your face?

You should could around more often to submit your political views into these threads. I agree that it's been a little slower lately, but it'd be nice to have your perspective sometimes.

you are right it is not all jews. i did not mean to make such a blanketed statement..saying the religion plays no part of the political issue and their war is very inacurrate.. especially in that part of the world. they are fighting over the holy land..

calling me or my statement antisemitic because i view things differently from you is a very inacurrate description of me..

i have bn over in that part of the world and have taken crash courses in the religion and cultures and history of that part of the world.. before i am released into their country..

that is putting aside the college courses i took in order to understand the political upheavel and cultural believes when i was their on my own time.

especially when i tell my men to be respectful of the ppl and the culture and not make racist comments of the ppl..i dont feel that i am anti semitic in any way..

but i do apologize if i offended anyone

The UN- on behalf of the free world- put Israel in place to try and solve the enormous problems that the whole Jewish thing had been causing throughout history- and regardless of the issues now, at least it meant that there was now actually a Jewish country, which gave them a voice in the world they had lacked before.

Regardless of whether you think that was a good idea or not... it's a decision we are stuck with. The UN was acting pretty much on behalf of nearly everyone who posts here, and did it in a "We'll set this up, you go there, we say it is ok and it will be fine." fashion That done, it is therefore the UN's responsibility to live up to that... more or less forever. To do otherwise, to abandon them in any way, would be a terrible crime, the worst of all possible options. Yes, it sucks for someone no matter how we do it, but there is nothing- literally nothing at all- that can be done to prevent that. So the only practical option is to back Israel. The UN gave them the rights to the land, that is more or less it.

Yes, religion is damn annoying, and it is annoying when anyone claims hegemony over somewhere on religious grounds- but that's entirely irrelevant., They didn't take it on religious grounds, they were GIVEN it on political/historical ones as part of the world order after WWII. And, again, no matter what you think, the UN is the only body that actually had the power and the right to do that.

Which is not to say that Israel should be infinitely tolerated or all it does should be approved of, but in the end, they are the ones to back in the matter of whose land it is, I find it very hard indeed to deny them the right to defend themselves in the face of such massive provocation and heads of state- from countries with FAR worse records than Israel- tsaying that Israel should no longer exist. And the sad fact is that defending yourself in such circumstances requires aggression, and aggresison requires death. It's a shitty situation but there is no other way.

In the end, the majority of those that want Israel destroyed want it on grounds of hate. Religiously inpsired hate in most cases, grudges they cannot drop in others, but hate nonetheless and it would be a disaster for the remainder of history if that hate was allowed to destroy Israel, especially after the promises made to them that it would be their safe haven.

And yes, the safe haven happens to be in the area that they have historical ties to, hence this resulting conspiracy nonsense that this was some sort of Zionist plot- it's not, it's just a common sense coming together of history and politics. Talk of Zionist conspiracy is precisely what the Nazis used in their justifications; disturbing to hear it still spoken of.

Btw, I seem to remember it being earlier stated that other people had older ties to the region. Aside from me really not caring about who was there first- as I say, this is political in nature- that's... just not true.

So. In this situation- sorry. A ceasefire was agreed long ago, and Hamas, which is a hideous facade of democracy actually just perpetuating... evil, basically, has been sanctioning the firing of rockets into Israel all the way through it. My patience would have been exhausted with that long before now. I cannot find any reason to decry Israel's actions here specifically, and for the reasons I give above I cannot condemn them in the wider historical context either.

There, thats my perspective.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
you are right it is not all jews. i did not mean to make such a blanketed statement..saying the religion plays no part of the political issue and their war is very inacurrate.. especially in that part of the world. they are fighting over the holy land..

calling me or my statement antisemitic because i view things differently from you is a very inacurrate description of me..

i have bn over in that part of the world and have taken crash courses in the religion and cultures and history of that part of the world.. before i am released into their country..

that is putting aside the college courses i took in order to understand the political upheavel and cultural believes when i was their on my own time.

especially when i tell my men to be respectful of the ppl and the culture and not make racist comments of the ppl..i dont feel that i am anti semitic in any way..

but i do apologize if i offended anyone

I didn't actually use the term 'anti-semetic'; I think bigotry summed it up quite well. And if it is inaccurate- that is your fault for posting inaccurately, isn't it?

If it was just a mistake and you misrepresented your own views, then fair enough- but be careful, you are treading on dangerous ground.

This is just my opinion, but the Jew-haters in here should be allowed to hate on Jews, what I can't stand is them trying to pass erroneous idiocy as fact, as they have.

In many ways I'd like to be able to act on a "let people hang themsvles with their own rope" basis, but the fact of the matter is that that sort of thing always totally derails threads as it turns into a shouting match.

NOTE TO USHGARAK:

Is this thread strays any furhter into outright racism I will close. On a similar note, conspiracy talk belongs in the conspiracy area.

WHo said it was a conspiracy? YOU????

What does it matter what anyone says on this thread. What are you A NAZI ? Curtailing what people want to voice, right or wrong? It is not you place to do that. If someone was an outright bigot, racist,Jew hating War monger, they should have the right to say so.

YOu Sir, over step your authority. If you have something to say,as you did, then say it, other than that take heed to your own words.

This discussion can carry on with people using whatever definition of "Battle riffle" or in this case "Racism", that they wish- Lycanthrope (Ushgarak), quit moaning about that.. if you don't like where it has gone, then stay out the thread

Time to make another sock account, guy.

Originally posted by Robtard
Time to make another sock account, guy.

why are you leaving? what is that?

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
why are you leaving?

Stupid response.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
why are you leaving?

Let me help you with this: If someone ignores the repeated warning of a MOD, then that person can get themselves banned.

I find it hard to find sympathy for either of the sides in this conflict, though, that being said, I feel Israel has definitely caused more harm, though one might say that is solely because they are more efficient than their opposites. The losers of it all seem to be mostly poor, palestinian civilians...

Robtard and Wild Shadow. Be on topic or be out. Your choice.

Originally posted by Lycanthrope
NOTE TO USHGARAK:
WHo said it was a conspiracy? YOU????

What does it matter what anyone says on this thread. What are you A NAZI ? Curtailing what people want to voice, right or wrong? It is not you place to do that. If someone was an outright bigot, racist,Jew hating War monger, they should have the right to say so.

YOu Sir, over step your authority. If you have something to say,as you did, then say it, other than that take heed to your own words.

I think Ush has already been more than tolerant to you.

I, however, will not be too nice.

The discussion will now continue...

Originally posted by Bardock42
I find it hard to find sympathy for either of the sides in this conflict, though, that being said, I feel Israel has definitely caused more harm, though one might say that is solely because they are more efficient than their opposites. The losers of it all seem to be mostly poor, palestinian civilians...

If Hamas or Hizbullah had better weapons, they wouldn't hesitate to use them. They've made it very clear that Israel is to be destroyed.

You're right, the Palestian civilians are the ones who pay the most, their so called liberators used them as pawns and they're the ones who get caught in the crossfire when Israel retaliates.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
There, thats my perspective.
And fairly on the mark, imo.

Originally posted by Robtard
If Hamas or Hizbullah had better weapons, they wouldn't hesitate to use them. They've made it very clear that Israel is to be destroyed.

You're right, the Palestian civilians are the ones who pay the most, their so called liberators used them as pawns and they're the ones who get caught in the crossfire when Israel retaliates.

The Hamas wants their place back, and you are right they are assholes about it, but I get their point, now Israel, on the other hand, seem to be total dicks. And their reactions are what causes all the suffering in that region.

I agree with you mostly, I just don't think that painting Israel in such a positive light is in any way justified.

[QUOTE=11438450]Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
[B]Robtard and Wild Shadow. Be on topic or be out. Your choice.

I think Ush has already been more than tolerant to you.

I, however, will not be too nice.

with all do respect i am tackling this debate from another angle and the cause of this tormoil....being threaten because my view seems to offend some one is not very democratic or seem to help the debating issue.. i would like to have something i said pointed out where it seems to be inappropriate for this debate please....

having said that the reason this is happening has much to do with what has already bn mention... religiously, historically and tribal cultural mentality.. where killing some member of a family will simply fuel the flame of hate for the next generation..... both sides need to come up with more reasonable ways of settling this... from harsher punishment and more active persuit of hamas members.

from what i learned about tribal mentality it must be conquered by force and fear pretty much how suddam hussein ruled... otherwise it is taken as weakness that will be taken advantage of,,,so on the one side i do believe strong show of force needs to be shown but it should be more carefully targeted... one single strong assault with massive death.. not this petty back and fourth bull..

to be perfectly honest this problem will never be resolved till one side is obliterated...

Originally posted by Bardock42
The Hamas wants their place back, and you are right they are assholes about it, but I get their point, now Israel, on the other hand, seem to be total dicks. And their reactions are what causes all the suffering in that region.

I agree with you mostly, I just don't think that painting Israel in such a positive light is in any way justified.

I don't paint Israel in such a positive light, I'm certain they've done and continue to do some ****ed-up shit themselves, but for the most part, when they're left alone, they leave alone and they're obliged to retaliate as hard as they can when provoked, if they didn't, they'd deemed weak.

Edit: Though in reality, they could retaliate a lot harder, they've shown they have the ability to take out several other countries in that area at once. They could level Palestine and Gaza, if they pleased. So it should be noted that they do indeed use restraint.