Originally posted by Lightsnake
He resists something that only works on the weak minded. Given Kaan couldn't manipulate Kopecz, either...so?
It wasn't just that he couldn't manipulate Bane, it was how laughable the effort had been. And he was capable of manipulating Kopekz just like he had all of the other Sith within the Order. And proof that it only worked on the weak minded? It had worked on the entire upper echelon Brotherhood of Darkness, that every single member was somehow weak minded requires some serious proof.
Given Qordis's weakness...so?
What "weakness?" This sounds like an unsupported assumption. Do you have any proof to suggest that Quordis was in any way weak? He was one of the most respected and important Sith of the entire Order; it's safe to say that he was one of the most powerful of all the Dark Lords given his position, and the manner in which Bane broke through his defences suggested that he was miles ahead of him in ability.
You keep lying about the room it was done in, kiddo.
What are you talking about? It was done in the Academy archives, which was the room stated to be capable of housing hundreds of students. I'm sure it's been a while since you read the books but you should at least verify what you're saying if you're going to act like you know what you're talking about.
Like any Force user creating a holocron.
Nothing even remotely suggests as much.
To quote on Sith holocrons: they require precise alterations, often on a sub-atomic level.'
Could you provide a source[+ specifics)? It's interesting how you didn't mention any of this before and are now speaking about it so casually as if it's common knowledge.
So could Yoda.
Source (and specifics)? And even if some random EU source does depict as much, it clearly doesn't hold true to the highest form of canon: the movies, where Yoda's shown unable to move beyond what the non-Force enhanced human eye can follow.
actually, when Bane is seen moving through the eyes of others, he's very visible.
We've already been through this; unless you have a source depicting Bane moving at his top speed and still being perfectly visible to the Force Sensitive eyes of those you are referring to (Johun being one of them), you have no point.
You mean he channels an entire ritual. And?
A planetary level ritual that required a planetary level command of the Force. It was performed in a manner that fully relied on Bane's regular level of ability. The comparison between that and anything the street level Yoda pulled off's a laughable one. And Bane has improved vastly since.
So? This speaks to his learning potential, nothing else.
No it speaks for the fact he would have grown considerably more powerful after each feat in question given when they actually took place. The greatest display of power I mentioned, the channeling of a planetary level ritual, took place after approximately two years of training, and he has since continued to grow in power for a further ten years (five times that amount) up until his latest appearance. As for the greatest display of control: the sub-atomic alterations, they took place after about 7 years of training, and he went on to grow in ability for almost the same amount of time (5 years). Clearly by RoT his level of power and control are far greater than what the feats have thus far shown us, and considering how impressive they actually are, he's arguably unparalleled in both areas as of his current peak.
Irrelevant if his head is uncovered against Yoda.
So the fact that 90% of his body is -- for all intents and purposes in this scenario -- completely invulnerable is somehow irrelevant?
Yoda is described as 'extraordinarily powerful'
Irrelevant misdirection. We (well, I, at least) are talking about his knowledge here.
with 'incredible' knowledge of the Force. So, you're full of shit. As usual.
Could you provide a source, page number, and quote for that, because, and I mean no offence when I say this, you're a proven liar that has made stuff up in the past and it wouldn't surprise me if this were a complete fabrication.
And Sadow's knowledge base? Again. Full of it.
Rule of Two
As [Sadow's] apprentice, Nadd had absorbed all his knowledge and teachings, transferring them into the Holocron before murdering Sadow and taking his place.
Yoda never depicted as a scholar. According to who, you?
No. The source material.
You refusing to accept it doesn't mean it's not true.
Of course it doesn't; that's probably the only valid thing you've stated this entire thread. Too bad it's completely irrelevant of course, seeing that it's because no such quote existing that it's not true.
At the very least, he's confirmed as more powerful than Bane. Sorry!
Prove. It.
And if you manage to do that, substantiate how it would make up for Bane's demonstratively far superior control of the Force, and the advantages the orbalisks provide. And then substantiate how Yoda compares to Sidious as a combatant.
As or Nai's utterly ridiculous comments:
1. I already provided the contextual comparison; the movies quite effectively establish Yoda as a street level combatants; that he constantly struggles with relatively basic telekinesis (a Force technique that appears to have been his speciality) would quite conclusively establish that he would quite simply not be able to compete with a being possessing a planetary level command of the Force. The rest was to elaborate on Bane's general level of completeness and versatility.
2. The sub-atomic alterations act as a demonstration of control and precision, which is directly proportional with how efficiently Bane would be capable of applying his power on a small scale, which is the most relevant application of power in a direct Force contest between two humanoid sized beings.
3. That Bane displayed a planetary level command of the Force within the settings of a ritual is completely irrelevant; the fact remains that everything Bane had to do was under his own level of ability, there were no artifacts or circumstances used to enhance his level of ability, and no preparation time employed.
4. That Yoda's faster is completely unsupported; even if we were to use secondary evidence, he has never demonstrated the ability to move completely beyond what the Force Sensitive eye can follow (and that's not even mentioning how much more power Bane gains following that demonstration, which was performed after some months of training).
5. That Yoda's the more technically skilled swordsman is again, completely unsupported. Bane's demonstrated an absolutely alarming natural affinity with the lightsaber; he was capable of familiarising himself with every single move and sequence of all seven forms of the lightsaber (for the saber staff), and forming counters for each one, in a matter of months. It's worth noting that these moves and sequences would have numbered in the hundreds of thousands. It's pretty clear that he'd be able to perform absolute wonders with his own form (Djem So) after an entire decade with the weapon. There's also the fact that Bane's overall style of fighting employs his own body (which thanks to the orbalisk's protection is completely invulnerable to the cutting power of the lightsaber) into his attacks in ways that only he could, that ultimately grants him a completely unique style, further tipping the technical advantages in his favour. What's so impressive about Yoda? He was more out of practise with the weapon than anything.
Bane's simply better than Yoda. He's demonstratively superior in literally every area. Name one real advantage that Yoda possesses? Bane's infinitely more powerful, has demonstrated an -- in general -- unparalleled level of Force control, that surpasses anything shown by Yoda by miles. He's demonstrated a far greater affinity with the lightsaber and Yoda's superior experience with the weapon is made mostly irrelevant by how out of practise he was with it. Force knowledge, nothing suggests that Yoda's quite on Bane's level, that he's simply had more time to accumulate knowledge can be countered with Bane's abnormal learning rate and dedication to learning. And then of course Bane possesses the orbalisk armour, making approximately 90% of his entire body completely immune to the cutting power of the lightsaber, meaning that Bane can focus almost fully on the offence without sacrificing his defence, integrate his body into his offence and defence in ways that only he can that only adds to his effectiveness as a fighter and how unfamiliar a combatant he would be. Yoda doesn't stand a chance here and if you think differently you're undeniably retarded.
What's the point honestly? Your arguments have been defeated time and time again, only for you to come back and waste everyone's time with the same nonsense. What benefit do I get from pointing out your bullshit if you're just going to throw it back on this forum next month? You lack any kind of credibility for anybody to take you seriously and/or debate with you. You're just buying your time until your next ban.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
yeah, not like Bane has his head totally uncovered and vulnerable.
Bane "had his head totally uncovered and vulnerable" when he fought Raskta, Valenthyne and Johun. That's three opponents, one of which was the Jedi Weapons Master and the best swordsman of her Era, another was also a highly skilled duellist. All three had their powers amped up by Battle Meditation. And despite all of that none of them were able to land a blow on Bane's head. Heck, they couldn't even drive him back. The best they could do was hold their ground.
Don't forget he has his lightsabre to parry blows aimed at his head, or his armoured forearms.
Originally posted by Weaboo
It wasn't just that he couldn't manipulate Bane, it was how laughable the effort had been. And he was capable of manipulating Kopekz just like he had all of the other Sith within the Order. And proof that it only worked on the weak minded? It had worked on the entire upper echelon Brotherhood of Darkness, that every single member was somehow weak minded requires some serious proof.What "weakness?" This sounds like an unsupported assumption. Do you have any proof to suggest that Quordis was in any way weak? He was one of the most respected and important Sith of the entire Order; it's safe to say that he was one of the most powerful of all the Dark Lords given his position, and the manner in which Bane broke through his defences suggested that he was miles ahead of him in ability.
Precisely. I do not understand why people keep describing the BoD as 'weak,' when they were able to stalemate the Jedi for years on Ruusan. If they were as feeble as some posters seem to think they'd have been wiped out long ago.
Heck, Bane himself admits that Kaan "had never been weak" in RoT.
And yes, Kaan could manipulate Kopecz, he just had more difficulty with him than most. Kopecz cheered and went along with them to create the thought bomb, he just came to his senses in time to escape the caves.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
So? Please prove that any 3 of these aside from the weapons master, were worth anything?
"To (Zannah's) surprise, both of Bane's opponents were still standing: proof they were exceptionally skilled combatants."
"He had forgotten how much quicker and stronger the Ithorian's amazing talent made him feel."
"Farfalla struck with clean, elegant blows, his form perfect as he harried Bane's right flank."
Plus, Valenthyne notices the shape of Bane's lightsabre's hilt (which is hook-handled, altering the angle of attack), processes the information and adjust's his own weapon's course to block in a fraction of a second.
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
How does this even compare to him facing Yoda, who dodged 3 jedi without the use of his lightsaber?
When was this? How good were those three? Did they have a Battle Meditation expert amping their power?
And Bane didn't need to 'dodge' them. They couldn't force him to move, they could only keep him from forcing them back.