Rot Bane vs Rots Yoda

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Sorry didn't mean to double post.

You mean triple post. 😉

EDIT:

Plus, Valenthyne notices the shape of Bane's lightsabre's hilt (which is hook-handled, altering the angle of attack), processes the information and adjust's his own weapon's course to block in a fraction of a second.

I believe it was Raskta who noticed the Bane's ligthsaber hilt and warned Valenthyne of it.

Yoda won't be able to get through the orablisks, therefore Bane wins.

If Johun Othone was able to cut Bane's wrist, then Yoda who is a 1000x's the swordsman Othone is, could penetrate them too.

Well considering that Yoda is in exactly the same situation as Johun, as in he has two battle-hardened Jedi Master's fighting with him then I see no flaw in that logic.

Originally posted by Elite Hunter
I believe it was Raskta who noticed the Bane's ligthsaber hilt and warned Valenthyne of it.

I stand corrected. She shouted "the handle!" However Valenthyne still interpreted exactly what that meant (the handle was hooked which changed the angle of attack) and reacted accordingly, by adjusting the angle of his block, within a fraction of a second.

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
Yoda RAN from Sidious knowing he couldn't win. Also, I never said Bane PERSONALLY destroyed the brotherhood. I was just listing his feats, and one was wiping out the brotherhood, so get over it. Denying that he got rid of them is just stubborn of you, which you just so happen to be.

idk what page this thread is on now but this is from pg one..

u know that Palpy was the one trying to escape before the fight? wouldn't that mean that Palpy was the one running? not yoda..

Yoda didn't have that much power to defeat Palpatine in his own environment, so he tried to take him by surprise and failed. Also when did Palpatine try to escape?

EDIT: He was sitting at his desk, presumably waiting.

Originally posted by beggars
Yoda didn't have that much power to defeat Palpatine in his own environment, so he tried to take him by surprise and failed. Also when did Palpatine try to escape?

EDIT: He was sitting at his desk, presumably waiting.

Ah yes he did jump, but only after he shocked Yoda. When Yoda got up, he realised that if Force Lightning would not kill him, he certainly could not defeat him in lightsaber combat. So it was a smart choice rather than simply fleeing.

No one said it wasn't a smart idea.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Bane "had his head totally uncovered and vulnerable" when he fought Raskta, Valenthyne and Johun. That's three opponents, one of which was the Jedi Weapons Master and the best swordsman of her Era, another was also a highly skilled duellist. All three had their powers amped up by Battle Meditation. And despite all of that none of them were able to land a blow on Bane's head. Heck, they couldn't even drive him back. The best they could do was hold their ground.

Don't forget he has his lightsabre to parry blows aimed at his head, or his armoured forearms.

Any of the aforementioned have Yoda's speed, agility or size advantage? Or power? Or skill? No. Yoda's got the firm advantage

Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
Yoda won't be able to get through the orablisks, therefore Bane wins.

Why don't you stop squealing this over and over again and respond when someone challenge you and stop ****ing ignoring as people have pointed out that Bane's head is totally uncovered? In other words, start debating and defend your point.

Originally posted by Weaboo
It wasn't just that he couldn't manipulate Bane, it was how laughable the effort had been. And he was capable of manipulating Kopekz just like he had all of the other Sith within the Order. And proof that it only worked on the weak minded? It had worked on the entire upper echelon Brotherhood of Darkness, that every single member was somehow weak minded requires some serious proof.

OMG, Bane has a strong mind! And? And when does Kaan mind trick every one of the BoD? Hell, Kopecz's loyalty to the Brotherhood was all that kept him from overthrowing Kaan! He was frequently expressing displeasure in Kaan

What "weakness?" This sounds like an unsupported assumption. Do you have any proof to suggest that Quordis was in any way weak? He was one of the most respected and important Sith of the entire Order; it's safe to say that he was one of the most powerful of all the Dark Lords given his position, and the manner in which Bane broke through his defences suggested that he was miles ahead of him in ability.

Source (and specifics)? And even if some random EU source does depict as much, it clearly doesn't hold true to the highest form of canon: the movies, where Yoda's shown unable to move beyond what the non-Force enhanced human eye can follow.

We've already been through this; unless you have a source depicting Bane moving at his top speed and still being perfectly visible to the Force Sensitive eyes of those you are referring to (Johun being one of them), you have no point.

A planetary level ritual that required a planetary level command of the Force. It was performed in a manner that fully relied on Bane's regular level of ability. The comparison between that and anything the street level Yoda pulled off's a laughable one. And Bane has improved vastly since.

No it speaks for the fact he would have grown considerably more powerful after each feat in question given when they actually took place. The greatest display of power I mentioned, the channeling of a planetary level ritual, took place after approximately two years of training, and he has since continued to grow in power for a further ten years (five times that amount) up until his latest appearance. As for the greatest display of control: the sub-atomic alterations, they took place after about 7 years of training, and he went on to grow in ability for almost the same amount of time (5 years). Clearly by RoT his level of power and control are far greater than what the feats have thus far shown us, and considering how impressive they actually are, he's arguably unparalleled in both areas as of his current peak.

So the fact that 90% of his body is -- for all intents and purposes in this scenario -- completely invulnerable is somehow irrelevant?

Irrelevant misdirection. We (well, I, at least) are talking about his knowledge here.

Could you provide a source, page number, and quote for that, because, and I mean no offence when I say this, you're a proven liar that has made stuff up in the past and it wouldn't surprise me if this were a complete fabrication.

Rule of Two
As [Sadow's] apprentice, Nadd had absorbed all his knowledge and teachings, transferring them into the Holocron before murdering Sadow and taking his place.

No. The source material.

Of course it doesn't; that's probably the only valid thing you've stated this entire thread. Too bad it's completely irrelevant of course, seeing that it's because no such quote existing that it's not true.

Prove. It.

And if you manage to do that, substantiate how it would make up for Bane's demonstratively far superior control of the Force, and the advantages the orbalisks provide. And then substantiate how Yoda compares to Sidious as a combatant. [/B]

Sorry.
Brat.

Lightsnake, you make it sound like a kid with a BB gun could shoot Bane in the face because his head is "unprotected" by the impenetrable armor that covers the rest of his body. Never mind that he was both one of the most powerful Force-users and one of the deadliest swordsman in the mythos. And let's ignore the fact that he can devote his vast speed and physical strength almost entirely to offense, because a lightsaber blow to almost anywhere on his body will simply bounce off, and any wound that doesn't take off a hand or outright kill him will heal completely in a matter of seconds.

And let's get this straight; Bane was backed up against a wall with three Jedi slashing away at his head. Three Jedi empowered by battle meditation, one of whom was probably the greatest swordsman in the galaxy, and another proclaimed by the omniscient narrator to be an "exceptional" Jedi Master. Even Johun was useful there, as it was noted that Raskta actually managed to integrate his unfocused, chaotic strikes into her own assault. As good as Yoda is, he cannot aim as many blows at Bane's head as three BM'd, adult, Force-sensitive hominids and their four lightsabers. He'd have to either levitate himself - which, according to Ganner Rhysode, is tiring when done over a long period of time - or manipulate his lightsaber telekinetically to maintain a consistent rate of attack at a position five feet over his head. His size may increase his evasiveness, but it also greatly hinders his overall effectiveness against Bane.

Originally posted by Faunus
Lightsnake, you make it sound like a kid with a BB gun could shoot Bane in the face because his head is "unprotected" by the impenetrable armor that covers the rest of his body. Never mind that he was both one of the most powerful Force-users and one of the deadliest swordsman in the mythos. And let's ignore the fact that he can devote his vast speed and physical strength almost entirely to offense, because a lightsaber blow to almost anywhere on his body will simply bounce off, and any wound that doesn't take off a hand or outright kill him will heal completely in a matter of seconds.

He'd have to either levitate himself - which, according to Ganner Rhysode, is tiring when done over a long period of time - or manipulate his lightsaber telekinetically to maintain a consistent rate of attack at a position five feet over his head. His size may increase his evasiveness, but it also greatly hinders his overall effectiveness against Bane.

All he needs to do is use his own agility and he can jump much higher than just two meters without any issues whatsoever. All he needs to do is dodge in the right place, leap and cut.

Originally posted by Faunus
Lightsnake, you make it sound like a kid with a BB gun could shoot Bane in the face because his head is "unprotected" by the impenetrable armor that covers the rest of his body. Never mind that he was both one of the most powerful Force-users and one of the deadliest swordsman in the mythos. And let's ignore the fact that he can devote his vast speed and physical strength almost entirely to offense, because a lightsaber blow to almost anywhere on his body will simply bounce off, and any wound that doesn't take off a hand or outright kill him will heal completely in a matter of seconds.

And let's get this straight; Bane was backed up against a wall with three Jedi slashing away at his head. Three Jedi empowered by battle meditation, one of whom was probably the greatest swordsman in the galaxy, and another proclaimed by the omniscient narrator to be an "exceptional" Jedi Master. Even Johun was useful there, as it was noted that Raskta actually managed to integrate his unfocused, chaotic strikes into her own assault. As good as Yoda is, he cannot aim as many blows at Bane's head as three BM'd, adult, Force-sensitive hominids and their four lightsabers. He'd have to either levitate himself - which, according to Ganner Rhysode, is tiring when done over a long period of time - or manipulate his lightsaber telekinetically to maintain a consistent rate of attack at a position five feet over his head. His size may increase his evasiveness, but it also greatly hinders his overall effectiveness against Bane.

I was about to say basically that, but you were much, much more eloquent. My hat's off to you.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
OMG, Bane has a strong mind! And? And when does Kaan mind trick every one of the BoD? Hell, Kopecz's loyalty to the Brotherhood was all that kept him from overthrowing Kaan! He was frequently expressing displeasure in Kaan

He held the entire BoD together by using subtle mind manipulations. Plus he persuaded them all to create the thought bomb, including Kopecz (although he snapped out of it in time to get out of the caves).

"Even with his ability to manipulate and influence the minds of the other Dark Lords"

"(Kopecz) was also one of the most difficult to influence and control."

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Prove Qordis is powerful in the slightest. Go on. The BoD were a pack of, mostly? Weaklings. And this is constantly supported

Qordis was head of the Sith Academy. That alone shows he's high up on the ladder.

Again, if the BoD were such 'weaklings,' why weren't they wiped out years ago? They kept the Jedi deadlocked in battle on Ruusan for years. Bane himself admits that Kaan "had never been weak."

Originally posted by chilled monkey
He held the entire BoD together by using subtle mind manipulations. Plus he persuaded them all to create the thought bomb, including Kopecz (although he snapped out of it in time to get out of the caves).

"Even with his ability to manipulate and influence the minds of the other Dark Lords"

"(Kopecz) was also one of the most difficult to influence and control."

Qordis was head of the Sith Academy. That alone shows he's high up on the ladder.

Again, if the BoD were such 'weaklings,' why weren't they wiped out years ago? They kept the Jedi deadlocked in battle on Ruusan for years. Bane himself admits that Kaan "had never been weak."

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Going from memory, but Kopecz treats the idea of the Thought Bomb, after vague initial enthusiasm, with utter pessimism. Fromn Jedi vs. Sith, the Sith aren't happy with the Thought Bomb idea, either and most adopt an air of sheer fatalism. Githany outright deserts and Kopecz basically resigns himself. It seems less Kaan controlling their minds and more his really, really good skills at political maneuvering.

And most of the BoD were in thrall to him due to his charisma and their belief in the brotherhood. There's nothing of him ever using mind mojo on Kopecz given Kopecz frequently challenged his decisions and when Kaan sometimes gives him orders, Kopecz shouts at him.

I just posted two quotes that flat-out state that Kaan could and did mentally influence/control the BoD members. Here they are again:

"Even with his ability to manipulate and influence the minds of the other Dark Lords"

"(Kopecz) was also one of the most difficult to influence and control." How would Kaan even know that unless he had done it before?

Sure he was highly charismatic and great with words, but he could and did use 'mind mojo' to supplement that when needed.

And it wasn't "vague enthusiasm." He "cheered" and "eagerly joined in the throng"

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Well, presumably there's the detail of them having a giant military force with a giant navy. Given that the BoD's great hope depended on making a bunch of trainees Dark Lords? Comparatively speaking, a guy like Qordis is really nothing to a number of Dark Lords we've seen. Do you really think people like Qel-Droma, Malak, Ragnos or hell, even Jerec would have an altogether difficult time with him?

Kopecz stated that the Army of Light was formed purely to destroy the Sith, not their soldiers. He suggested sending their fleet to Ruusan but Kaan refused as this would mean giving up all the ground they had won. Kaan instead ordered that all the Sith gather into an army and fight the AoL on Ruusan while their fleets (or at least the bulk of them) stayed away.

So on Ruusan, it was basically a Sith army vs a Jedi one. And they were at a stalemate for years.

With Qordis, it's impossible to say how well those guys would fair against him due to his lack of feats. For example, for all we know, Qordis could have been a very good duellist (no-where as good as Bane, Kas'im etc but still good). We can't say one way or the other as we never see him fight. But by the same token do you really think someone like say, Johun would have easily beaten him?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He is, however, facing an opponent who is also one of the most powerful force users-more powerful than Bane himself- and one of the deadliest swordsmen as well.

And in a fight like this, there isn't a blow Yoda could score that'd be anything less than a killing or crippling wound.

Add that to Yoda's incredible speed and agility, plus his size, which, with Bane's style focusing on vicious hammer blows with little defense

He tanks hits because he can, not because he needs to. As he demonstrates rather well against the Jedi trio, his lightsaber defense is superb as well. Without it, there's no way he could've blocked strikes aimed at his head from three different people.

And I'll add that while Bane is primarily a Djem So practitioner, he is familiar enough with Soresu to have taught it to Zannah. He isn't limited to hammer strokes.

badly limits him against the small, incredible fast opponent able to get inside Bane's guard and reach.

As well as not be blown over by Bane's physical strength. Yoda's force enhanced abilities in strength are nothing short of incredible there

He was not backed up against a wall, he was the one face the wall with them standing between him and Worror.

The novel, however, notes that while their combined efforts managed to put him in a defensive position, they couldn't drive him back; the best they could do was hold their ground. The second Johun scored a hit Bane hurled them ten meters through the air and went after Worror.

And let's keep in mind that, despite having his strength, speed, and skill amplified by battle meditation, and despite the fact that he had two Jedi Masters - one of whom was a master swordsman wielding two lightabers - who were also being empowered by the same source, Johun's cut against Bane was only "shallow." The gap is centimeters-wide, if even that. Alone, without any assistance, and with his single lightsaber, Yoda is going to have to work hard for any blow he lands, significant or otherwise.

And I am not suggesting Yoda's speed is to that degree. However, Yoda has demonstrated the speed, if I hear correctly, to evade three Jedi masters at once, including Depa Billaba.

He also has the benefit of being so small that it could throw Bane's entire balance off.

He doesn't exactly need to rain blows on Bane continuously, he needs to fight smart and fast.

All he needs to do is use his own agility and he can jump much higher than just two meters without any issues whatsoever. All he needs to do is dodge in the right place, leap and cut.