Rot Bane vs Rots Yoda

Started by Lightsnake12 pages
Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Faunus
I realize. And unlike what you're doing with Bane, I'm not glossing over it.

That makes no sense. At all.


Unlike Johun Othone, if Yoda gets a hit on Bane, it's going to be a blow that either cripples or kills Bane, given that it really can't be anything else. either it slices through Bane's head or a limb.

Good Lord.

He tanks hits because he can, not because he needs to. As he demonstrates rather well against the Jedi trio, his lightsaber defense is superb as well. Without it, there's no way he could've blocked strikes aimed at his head from three different people.


I'm not focusing on WHY Bane fights how he does, we both know why that is. The fact is, I'm talking about how his fighting style will go in this fight. He's going to fight exactly as he usually does against Yoda, too.


And I'll add that while Bane is primarily a Djem So practitioner, he is familiar enough with Soresu to have taught it to Zannah. He isn't limited to hammer strokes.

I'm rather sure RoT says he totally eschews defense generally. Though, I'll grant this.

Unless Yoda pulls an Anakin and grabs Bane's wrists together, getting inside his reach is going to jack shit. The armor will protect everything but his wrists, ankles, and head, and he still has his rather considerable reserves of Force-energy.

It'll matter quite a bit if Bane swings and Yoda jumps close enough to slice at Bane's head before he can recover from the strike. An opponent as small as Yoda getting inside the guard of someone like Bane does account for something. And unlike Farfalla and Raskta, Yoda has the benefit of having reserves of lightside power that very likely surpass Bane's reserves. Oh, and having gaps on his ankles are probably a bad thing to have in this fight.

Granted.

Upon looking at it again - the Russian site - there is no wall. My mistake.

The novel, however, notes that while their combined efforts managed to put him in a defensive position, they couldn't drive him back; the best they could do was hold their ground. The second Johun scored a hit Bane hurled them ten meters through the air and went after Worror.


Bane exploded there, yes. However, it's worth noting Johun managed to bungle that completely and not take Bane's hand. IF it had been, say, Raskta or Farfalla swinging, I've little doubt Bane is holding a cauterized stump. They were all at an impasse and don't forget, Bane had an advantage against them that he will not have on Yoda: A curved hilt

And let's keep in mind that, despite having his strength, speed, and skill amplified by battle meditation, and despite the fact that he had two Jedi Masters - one of whom was a master swordsman wielding two lightabers - who were also being empowered by the same source, Johun's cut against Bane was only "shallow." The gap is centimeters-wide, if even that. Alone, without any assistance, and with his single lightsaber, Yoda is going to have to work hard for any blow he lands, significant or otherwise.

I didn't say otherwise. Thing is, though, Yoda's powers of prescience and his experience eclipses those three. And as you pointed out, Bane's got gaps on his ankles. The very nature of the combatants is going to mean Bane will need to adjust his style for a very tiny opponent who isn't going to be outmuscled and isn't going to easily tire. More likely than not, Yoda will focus on striking at Bane's head and he's good enough to land the hits

I've never actually seen the quote myself, but I'll take your word for it, since it's so commonly circulated.

Uh, how?


A seven foot tall man striking downwards at a two foot tall imp? That's not exactly an ideal combatant


That might cut it with pretty much anyone else he would have to fight, but he needs to do a hell of a lot more to kill Bane.

Both Bane and Yoda need pretty much the same thing: to land one single, good hit on a small target. And I see no reason that Yoda, a more powerful, more experienced and quite probably more agile, faster and more skilled will not be able to land it. Yoda's size is a disadvantage for Bane here. Yoda, however, has been shown incorporating acrobatics that are key against opponents like Bane constantly, and has leaps distances over twice that of Bane's entire body without issue.


This is one aspect of your arguments that I take serious issue with. You make it seem so easy. You make it seem like Bane's size, strength, speed, skill, power, and [b]****ing armor are just non-factors, because he's fighting "OMg YODa!1!!". It's more than irksome; it's disrespectful to the person you're debating, and it's a waste of my time. The next post needs to actually address my points, or I'm done. [/B]

I'm not making it sound easy. The problem is, people are seeming to believe Bane is going to easily and quickly land a blow on a much faster, smaller opponent who can match or surpass him in almost every single aspect save for durability. Yoda, like Bane, needs one good strike in this fight-a leap and a slash. And I'm not seeing how the odds will be against him getting it.

The problem is? Yoda can match Bane in strength, he can surpass him in skill, speed and power. Bane's survival depends on Yoda not being able to slice his head off-or open before he himself lands a hit, and that's pretty undeniable

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by chilled monkey
I just posted two quotes that flat-out state that Kaan could and did mentally influence/control the BoD members. Here they are again:

"Even with his ability to manipulate and influence the minds of the other Dark Lords"

"(Kopecz) was also one of the most difficult to influence and control." How would Kaan even know that unless he had done it before?


I'm not denying Kaan was able to mind trick them subtly-he does it to Kas'im at one point, but all together? At the very same time? And as for Kopecz...that doesn't indicate he's mind tricking Kopecz. It just means Kopecz is one of the Sith Lords more inclined to not speak out against Kaan and if he was routinely mind screwing Kopecz, it'd be helpful to do that instead of vainly shrieking at him to keep his voice down

Sure he was highly charismatic and great with words, but he could and did use 'mind mojo' to supplement that when needed.

Yes, but he relied mostly on the former

And it wasn't "vague enthusiasm." He "cheered" and "eagerly joined in the throng"

Perhaps I'm mixing Kopecz in JvS with BoD. However, the whole Thought Bomb thing, to my recollection, in PoD was less Kopecz being actively controlled than him later getting his bearings.


Kopecz stated that the Army of Light was formed purely to destroy the Sith, not their soldiers. He suggested sending their fleet to Ruusan but Kaan refused as this would mean giving up all the ground they had won. Kaan instead ordered that all the Sith gather into an army and fight the AoL on Ruusan while their fleets (or at least the bulk of them) stayed away.

The 'Sith' can refer to all of them, their entire forces, just as it did every other time the Sith militarily threatened the galaxy. And on Ruusan, there were numerous, NUMEROUS soldiers who weren't even force sensitive and many who were like the Shadow Assassins. The Army was meant to destroy the Sith, but the Brotherhood did place a massive amount of troops on Ruusan. In one battle, not a single Dark Lord even fought.

So on Ruusan, it was basically a Sith army vs a Jedi one. And they were at a stalemate for years.

Err...I'm rather certain the number of non force sensitive soldiers far outnumbered the Jedi and Sith soldiers there. Don't forget all the Republic soldiers there who joined Hoth.

With Qordis, it's impossible to say how well those guys would fair against him due to his lack of feats. For example, for all we know, Qordis could have been a very good duellist (no-where as good as Bane, Kas'im etc but still good). We can't say one way or the other as we never see him fight. But by the same token do you really think someone like say, Johun would have easily beaten him?

I'd give Qordis the benefit of the doubt against someone like Johun, just like I would against a few other people. But against people who have at least decent showings?

Lethal Rogue Senior Member

Yoda won't be able to get through the orbalisks easily though.

Lightsnake Senior Member

He doesn't need to 'get through' the orbalisks. He needs to land a strike on where the orbalisks don't protect. And Bane, likewise, needs to hit a small, much faster, more skilled and more powerful target. So, Lethal Rogue, anything to say besides "He won't get through the orbalisks?' Nobody is saying it will be easy, but quit acting like the orbalisks will equal an instant win.

Lethal Rogue Senior Member

I'm acting like that because the Orbalisks will make him win. They increase his power a ton and give him an almost impenetrable defense. Bane could easily just block his head the whole time and not worry about the rest of his body.

Lightsnake Senior Member
Originally posted by Lethal Rogue
I'm acting like that because the Orbalisks will make him win. They increase his power a ton and give him an almost impenetrable defense. Bane could easily just block his head the whole time and not worry about the rest of his body.

Yeah, he can just block his head. And yoda can't 'just block' his body...why? How'll they make him win when his HEAD IS UNCOVERED AS A TARGET TO A FASTER, BETTER OPPONENT who is far more agile than Bane has ever encountered?How is Bane going to get the hit? Even with the power increase we saw, Bane's skill and power do NOT surpass Yoda's. What part of this is hard for you?

Darth Exodus The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Lightsnake, why do you keep saying that Yoda is faster than Bane as if it's retardedly obvious? Why do you say that his skill completely eclipses Bane's like Bane's blind and limbless? And why do you say that he's more powerful like Bane's a cub scout with a fork compared to Godzilla? You underestimate Bane to a frightening degree.

IMO

Sabers is probably going to Bane. He has the speed and skill to keep up with Yoda as well as the smarts to fight someone of Yoda's size. On top of that he has the (moan about it all you want) orbalisks which give him the edge in most fights and enough advantage's to beat Yoda . This would undoubtably be an epic but Bane will eventually edge it by stamina 7/10.

Force will be another close fight but I also see Bane taking this.
The reason being that Yoda was struggling to contain The Emperor's lightning in thier duel and as of ROT Bane's lightning is (arguably) more powerful than ROTS Palpatines lightning. Notwithstanding Bane's massive offensive power which has him effortlessly slicing through FShield's. Bane 7-8/10

Overall as long as Bane fights smart and doesn't do any pointblank FL work that could bite him in the arse I can see him winning 6-7/10.

SIDIOUS 66 Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
IMO

Sabers is probably going to Bane. He has the speed and skill to keep up with Yoda as well as the smarts to fight someone of Yoda's size. On top of that he has the (moan about it all you want) orbalisks which give him the edge in most fights and enough advantage's to beat Yoda . This would undoubtably be an epic but Bane will eventually edge it by stamina 7/10.

I don't see it happening like that at all. When has Bane ever fought someone as fast or the size of Yoda? It takes a lot more precision to strike something small and fast, than to something bigger and not as fast. Three masters could not even touch Yoda while he was unarmed. Yoda's agility is the best we have seen in SW.

I heard the arguement somewhere on here "It has never been stated that Yoda can move faster than the eye can see". When Palpatine dueled Windu, Anakin described them as being blurs. Now it would not make sense that Palpatine dueled Windu with that type of speed and not Yoda. In the movie Palpatine seems to be getting frustrated with his duel against Yoda, but easily killed three greatly accomplished duelists in seconds.

Force will be another close fight but I also see Bane taking this.
The reason being that Yoda was struggling to contain The Emperor's lightning in thier duel and as of ROT Bane's lightning is (arguably) more powerful than ROTS Palpatines lightning. Notwithstanding Bane's massive offensive power which has him effortlessly slicing through FShield's. Bane 7-8/10
You see Bane winning a force fight?

Darth Sidious was already the most powerful sith lord in history, by the time of his duel with Yoda, according to the New Essential Guide. Sidious was barely powerful enough to overcome Yoda, but not kill him. I don't see how Bane would win a force fight if Sidious couldn't.

Overall as long as Bane fights smart and doesn't do any pointblank FL work that could bite him in the arse I can see him winning 6-7/10.
I disagree completely.

Darth Exodus The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
I don't see it happening like that at all. When has Bane ever fought someone as fast

Bane has fought BM'ed Raskta who attacked 'too quickly for the eye to see', who was able to move her 'arms and blades' as 'a blur' and was faster than lightning to a standstill while fighting Farfalla and Johun. As well as Nebaris' much bandied about Sirak fight.

or the size of Yoda? It takes a lot more precision to strike something small and fast,

Despite this been heralded as Yoda's greatest advantage I don't see how this will prove clinching. It's not like Bane's blind or clumsy enough not to be able to raise his saber to block Yoda's. It's not exactly a hard skill to use. Or a specilised anti-Yoda technique. Dooku and Sidious fought him without using any particularly variations beyond the usual slash-parry stuff. No special fighting styles or outlandish moves needed.

When Palpatine dueled Windu, Anakin described them as being blurs. Now it would not make sense that Palpatine dueled Windu with that type of speed and not Yoda. In the movie Palpatine seems to be getting frustrated with his duel against Yoda, but easily killed three greatly accomplished duelists in seconds.

That's why I said they where close in speed, but Bane has pretty damn good speed too. You can't completely disregard Bane with shoddy ABC logic.

You see Bane winning a force fight?

Darth Sidious was already the most powerful sith lord in history, by the time of his duel with Yoda, according to the New Essential Guide. Sidious was barely powerful enough to overcome Yoda, but not kill him. I don't see how Bane would win a force fight if Sidious couldn't.

You didn't even read my post did you? Not to mention that ABC logic doesn't stand here.

Bane can turn 'a dozen' technobeasts into 'dust and tiny flecks of small, twisted metal' with TK and still have enough energy to fight for another hour. Bane's lightning, as of POD, can reduce opponents 'to ash', which is better than ROTS sidious' lightning feats. Etc etc.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Bane has fought BM'ed Raskta who attacked 'too quickly for the eye to see', who was able to move her 'arms and blades' as 'a blur' and was faster than lightning to a standstill [b]while fighting Farfalla and Johun. As well as Nebaris' much bandied about Sirak fight.

Yes, in Nebaris's world, every padawan in Karpyshyn's books can move 'faster than the eye can see.' Hell, JOHUN is described such. Raskta's speed has no been shown to exceed someone who can outright confound people like Depa Billaba with his own speed.
So, sorry, Raskta as an example? fails

Despite this been heralded as Yoda's greatest advantage I don't see how this will prove clinching. It's not like Bane's blind or clumsy enough not to be able to raise his saber to block Yoda's. It's not exactly a hard skill to use. Or a specilised anti-Yoda technique. Dooku and Sidious fought him without using any particularly variations beyond the usual slash-parry stuff. No special fighting styles or outlandish moves needed.


For one thing, neither Dooku or Palpatine are as savage in their strikes as Bane. Djem So is a terrible style to have when you need speed as well as precision. A 'specialized Anto-Yoda' technique? What would this be, exactly? Oh, and Dooku actually had experience, y'know, fighting Yoda as his student


That's why I said they where close in speed, but Bane has pretty damn good speed too. You can't completely disregard Bane with shoddy ABC logic.

'Pretty' good speed does not mean his speed is 'close'. From what we have seen, yoda is more agile and faster than Bane. Guess what? That makes a big difference. armor aside, what advantage does Bane have here?


You didn't even read my post did you? Not to mention that ABC logic doesn't stand here.

Oh, look, Exodus avoiding answering and complaining. We've never seen that before. Guess what? Yoda, in the force is equal or superior to someone more powerful and knowledgable than Bane in the force

Bane can turn 'a dozen' technobeasts into 'dust and tiny flecks of small, twisted metal' with TK and still have enough energy to fight for another hour. Bane's lightning, as of POD, can reduce opponents 'to ash', which is better than ROTS sidious' lightning feats. Etc etc. [/B]

He also had the orbalisks feeding into him.

Yes, this is great, but how, exactly, does this factor into Bane being more powerful than Yoda? The guy who singlehandedly turned an entire droid army into scrap? And Palpatine's lightning turned a giant Sith wyrm into a charred hulk without any apparent effort in Sithisis. Not just charred, given it seemed to crumple to ash right after he pushed his way out of it.

chilled monkey Senior Member
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Three masters could not even touch Yoda while he was unarmed. Yoda's agility is the best we have seen in SW.

Again, when did this actually happen?

SIDIOUS 66 Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
Bane has fought BM'ed Raskta who attacked 'too quickly for the eye to see', who was able to move her 'arms and blades' as 'a blur' and was faster than lightning to a standstill [b]while fighting Farfalla and Johun. As well as Nebaris' much bandied about Sirak fight.
Are you comparing them to Yoda? Not only was Yoda able to move his arms fast, but his entire body as well. Yoda was able to move his entire body from spot A to B to C in seconds( now there is some abc logic. lol j/k). Yoda is able to make his entire body a blur.

Despite this been heralded as Yoda's greatest advantage I don't see how this will prove clinching. It's not like Bane's blind or clumsy enough not to be able to raise his saber to block Yoda's. It's not exactly a hard skill to use. Or a specilised anti-Yoda technique. Dooku and Sidious fought him without using any particularly variations beyond the usual slash-parry stuff. No special fighting styles or outlandish moves needed.
Dooku was forced to flee, and Sidious was forced to change tactics. Sure Bane may last a while with Yoda, but i see Yoda eventually wearing him down, or forcing him to change tactics, which would most likely be a force duel. I do not see Bane winning a force duel.

That's why I said they where close in speed, but Bane has pretty damn good speed too. You can't completely disregard Bane with shoddy ABC logic.
I am not disregarding Bane's speed, but his does not have the agility Yoda does.

You didn't even read my post did you? Not to mention that ABC logic doesn't stand here.
I am going by Banes chances of beating Yoda in a force duel. Sidious being the most powerful sith in history had a higher chance of defeating Yoda than Bane would. I don't see how it would be abc logic, unless Bane can exploit a weakness about Yoda that Sidious couldn't.

Bane can turn 'a dozen' technobeasts into 'dust and tiny flecks of small, twisted metal' with TK and still have enough energy to fight for another hour. Bane's lightning, as of POD, can reduce opponents 'to ash', which is better than ROTS sidious' lightning feats. Etc etc. [/B]
He has never turned anyone to ash that were as powerful as Yoda or Mace. Bane's lightning was caught by a lightsaber, while Sidious blasted Yoda's right out of his hand. Lightning seems to be an expression of raw force power, which Sidious has more than Bane, seeing how he is more powerful than Bane by that time.

chilled monkey Senior Member
Originally posted by Lightsnake
A seven foot tall man striking downwards at a two foot tall imp? That's not exactly an ideal combatant

Bane states that he is two meters tall. I believe that's about six foot six.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The 'Sith' can refer to all of them, their entire forces, just as it did every other time the Sith militarily threatened the galaxy.

No, Kopecz flat-out stated "They don't care about our soldiers and fleets anymore. All they want to do is wipe us out: the apprentices, the acolytes, the Sith Masters... and especially the Dark Lords."

Elite Hunter Senior Member
Originally posted by chilled monkey
Again, when did this actually happen?

I want to say that it happened in "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter" but don't quote me on it.

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Bane states that he is two meters tall. I believe that's about six foot six.

You're correct, but even so.


No, Kopecz flat-out stated "They don't care about our soldiers and fleets anymore. All they want to do is wipe us out: the apprentices, the acolytes, the Sith Masters... and especially the Dark Lords."

How does that contradict what I said? 'The Sith forces' aren't singularly used to refer to the Dark Lords.

Darth Exodus The Gr8est!!!!!!!!
Yes, in Nebaris's world, every padawan in Karpyshyn's books can move 'faster than the eye can see.' Hell, JOHUN is described such. Raskta's speed has no been shown to exceed someone who can outright confound people like Depa Billaba with his own speed.
So, sorry, Raskta as an example? fails

No.

For a start, Johun's speed is described as 'faster than the eye can follow'. Meaning that the saber is still visible, just faster than the eye can flick around in the socket or get a fixed lock on it. 'Faster than the eye can see' is moving so fast the eye can't even make an image. Which, considering that a lightsaber is a huge glowstick, is very impressive and much better than a 'blur'.

Secondly, when has Depa's speed been indicated to be anything impressive? And for that matter, when has Yoda been shown to match Raskta's faster than lightning feat?

For one thing, neither Dooku or Palpatine are as savage in their strikes as Bane. Djem So is a terrible style to have when you need speed as well as precision. A 'specialized Anto-Yoda' technique? What would this be, exactly? Oh, and Dooku actually had experience, y'know, fighting Yoda as his student

Bane does know the other forms and isn't stupid enough to try his usual Djem so clubbing attack's on someone of Yoda's obvious advantage. At the very least he knows Soresu to teach Zannah the form etc. And anyway Bane is incredibly fast as well as having the orbalisks to make alot of unexpected moves which will be enough to fight evenly with Yoda. Plus having a slightly imprecise fighting style won't guananty Bane's loss.

And the whole, 'experience fighting Yoda' thing is what I'm talking about. What, does that give him a bunch of Anti-Yoda techniques that go beyond slash and parry attacks. Or key insights into Yoda's fighting style that aren't immediately obvious. Becuase I saw neither in the two fights.

From what we have seen, yoda is more agile and faster than Bane.

I haven't. Could you try backing stuff up please, becuase these meaningless statements are getting tiresome.

Oh, look, Exodus avoiding answering and complaining. We've never seen that before.

Please don't get personal. It would be nice if we could debate in a civil manner on the issue, not on our personality defects or how much we piss each other off.

Guess what? Yoda, in the force is equal or superior to someone more powerful and knowledgable than Bane in the force

Raw power doesn't equal an instant win. I have sources that show that Bane's FL is more effective and powerful than Palpatines as of ROTS.

And on to Sidious' supposed superiority to Bane. How big is this power gap? 1% stronger? 5%? 100%? 0.0000001%?

The guy who singlehandedly turned an entire droid army into scrap?

So did Bane. Belia Darza's technobeast's definately count as an army and are even refered to as such.

And Palpatine's lightning turned a giant Sith wyrm into a charred hulk without any apparent effort in Sithisis. Not just charred, given it seemed to crumple to ash right after he pushed his way out of it.

Am I wrong in thinling that Sithisis is after ROTS? And for that matter lets not forget that Bane 's lightning as of POD was capable of doing the same thing to a Drexl. Now I don't know about scale but bear in mind that Bane has 10 years of growth and training aferwards as well as the addition of the orbalisks to amp his power.

I still stand by my view on this fight. But I'm tired now (It's 11 in England) so I'll try to reply in the morning.

chilled monkey Senior Member
Originally posted by Lightsnake
You're correct, but even so.

True. I'm just picky about stuff like this.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How does that contradict what I said? 'The Sith forces' aren't singularly used to refer to the Dark Lords.

I pointed out that the BoD had stalemated the AoL for years. You responded that that was due to their armies.

I explained that Kaan did not want to bring the BoD's regular fleets as that would mean they'd lose the worlds they had conquered. He gathered Sith from across all the BoD's training facilities to form an army to fight the Aol instead.

I also pointed out that the AoL was created specifically to destroy the Sith. You claimed that "the Sith" could include their regular armies.

I then provided a quote that clearly demonstrated that the AoL was created only to destroy the actual Sith themselves (i.e. the actual Dark Side users), not their soldiers and fleets.

"They don't care about our soldiers and fleets anymore. All they want to do is wipe us out: the apprentices, the acolytes, the Sith Masters... and especially the Dark Lords."

Kopecz makes a very clear distinction here between the actual Sith and the conventional military forces they employ.

Clear?

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by chilled monkey
True. I'm just picky about stuff like this.

I pointed out that the BoD had stalemated the AoL for years. You responded that that was due to their armies.


Also worth pointing out the bulk of the BoD was on Ruusan.
The forces raging across the galaxy?


I explained that Kaan did not want to bring the BoD's regular fleets as that would mean they'd lose the worlds they had conquered. He gathered Sith from across all the BoD's training facilities to form an army to fight the Aol instead.

The AoL got its start sweeping across, liberating Sith worlds. In effect, it was to break Sith control. And apparently the Sith were lacking heavily in numbers


I also pointed out that the AoL was created specifically to destroy the Sith. You claimed that "the Sith" could include their regular armies.

I then provided a quote that clearly demonstrated that the AoL was created only to destroy the actual Sith themselves (i.e. the actual Dark Side users), not their soldiers and fleets.

"They don't care about our soldiers and fleets anymore. All they want to do is wipe us out: the apprentices, the acolytes, the Sith Masters... and especially the Dark Lords."


Yes, and they were in a tactical stalemate with them on Ruusan. Most times the Sith and Jedi seemed to fight, the Sith lost pretty badly. They lost, IIRC, all but two of the battles according to NEC and one of those was a fleet battle.

ALSO worth pointing out is the 'any more.' The AoL had been sweeping over, destroying Sith forces across the galaxy until Kaan was forced to Ruusan due to its strategic importance.

Moreover, nothing in that indicates the 'The Sith' are used to refer to and only to the Dark Siders.


Kopecz makes a very clear distinction here between the actual Sith and the conventional military forces they employ.

Clear?


Point out where he does so?

Lethal Rogue Senior Member

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah, he can just block his head. And yoda can't 'just block' his body...why? How'll they make him win when his HEAD IS UNCOVERED AS A TARGET TO A FASTER, BETTER OPPONENT who is far more agile than Bane has ever encountered?How is Bane going to get the hit? Even with the power increase we saw, Bane's skill and power do NOT surpass Yoda's. What part of this is hard for you?

As Exodus said, you underestimate Bane a lot. What proof do you have that Yoda is a faster, better opponent? And what proof do you have that Bane has never fought anyone that powerful?

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
No.

For a start, Johun's speed is described as 'faster than the eye can follow'. Meaning that the saber is still visible, just faster than the eye can flick around in the socket or get a fixed lock on it. 'Faster than the eye can see' is moving so fast the eye can't even make an image. Which, considering that a lightsaber is a huge glowstick, is very impressive and much better than a 'blur'.


Gotta love how the Bane fankids find a way to distort canon. Johun's speed is 'swifter than the eye can follow.' And it's described that as 'how he's moving.' So, really. Spare me.


Secondly, when has Depa's speed been indicated to be anything impressive? And for that matter, when has Yoda been shown to match Raskta's faster than lightning feat?

'Faster than lightning, now?'
And given Depa's speed is on par with Mace and enough to butcher an entire ship's crew in an incredibly short time...
And then there's Yoda's 'dodge the three masters faster than the eye can see' feat. The better question? What has Raskta done to compare to Yoda in speed?


Bane does know the other forms and isn't stupid enough to try his usual Djem so clubbing attack's on someone of Yoda's obvious advantage. At the very least he knows Soresu to teach Zannah the form etc. And anyway Bane is incredibly fast as well as having the orbalisks to make alot of unexpected moves which will be enough to fight evenly with Yoda. Plus having a slightly imprecise fighting style won't guananty Bane's loss.

So what? Dooku knows all the forms enough to teach them to Grievous, that doesn't mean he's nearly as effective without Makashi.
And what are these unexpected moves? Like YODA, with more experience, combat ability and utter familiarity with anything Bane can throw out, won't be able to be 'unexpected' by utilizing a way of fighting Bane has never encountered? And having an imprecise fighting style against an utterly precise, faster, more agile, more skilled, more powerful opponent won't guarantee his loss. It'll just help it along.


And the whole, 'experience fighting Yoda' thing is what I'm talking about. What, does that give him a bunch of [b]Anti-Yoda techniques that go beyond slash and parry attacks. Or key insights into Yoda's fighting style that aren't immediately obvious. Becuase I saw neither in the two fights.

Well, gee, it only gives Dooku insight to how Yoda fights, his fighting style and all...and what, is Dooku supposed to scream "I've seen this before" randomly? Dooku has experience with Yoda. Bane does not.


I haven't. Could you try backing stuff up please, becuase these meaningless statements are getting tiresome.

Oh, from you, this is HILARIOUS, with you bleating how Bane'll somehow pull out unexpected moves with no proof or evidence.
and Yoda? Able to dance in between storms of blaster fire from an entire droid army and hailfire missiles with no issue? Able to move faster than the eyes of trained Jedi can see? Able to utterly leave Dooku in the dust with his speed while Dooku is enhanced on Vjun and Yoda is distracted? Able to keep pace with Palpatine, able to effortlessly kill two of the best duelists in Jedi Order history before they could react?
Yeah, where precisely has Bane demonstrated speed to Yoda's degree, let alone agility?


Please don't get personal. It would be nice if we could debate in a civil manner on the issue, not on our personality defects or how much we piss each other off.

You don't want people to comment on you? Then fix your issues.


Raw power doesn't equal an instant win. I have sources that show that Bane's FL is more effective and powerful than Palpatines as of ROTS.

No, you don't. I have a source that counters that: Sithisis.

And on to Sidious' supposed superiority to Bane. How big is this power gap? 1% stronger? 5%? 100%? 0.0000001%?

The gap is there, I'm afraid and given Palpatine's knowledge base in comparison, it's likely not an infinitesimal once. And yeah, raw power doesn't equal victory. How about superior skill? Experience? Speed? Skill?


So did Bane. Belia Darza's technobeast's definately count as an army and are even refered to as such.

Unlike Bane, Yoda didn't need orbalisks to save him. And I'm gonna wager an entire planetary army of droids, plus a hailfire is a lot, lot larger than the technobeasts.


Am I wrong in thinling that Sithisis is after ROTS?

Yes.

And for that matter lets not forget that Bane 's lightning as of POD was capable of doing the same thing to a Drexl. Now I don't know about scale but bear in mind that Bane has 10 years of growth and training aferwards as well as the addition of the orbalisks to amp his power.

The 'same thing?' Bane turned the drexl into a 'charred hulk.' Palpatine's turned the larger Sith Wyrm to standing dust. Unless you have proof Bane's force lightning increased in power and potency, then I'd advise you drop the point.

I still stand by my view on this fight. But I'm tired now (It's 11 in England) so I'll try to reply in the morning. [/B]

Why am I not surprised on the former here? It's rather apparent that no amount of reasoning or logic will sway you. Nebaris has always said it and you fall into lock step.