Kas'im vs galen marek

Started by Advent9 pages

In this blog post, Leland Chee responds to a question in the comments section, that had asked "The Vader vs. Maul brawl is canon?", replying with,

"It's not quite the real Darth Maul. Hence the 'or something.' Who knows, it could have been a vision like Luke confronting Vader on Dagobah or just some sort of Sith illusion. Or a clone. Nothing's been determined as to what we are actually seeing."

It's obvious then that we can't accurately gauge how powerful this version is in relation to the real Darth Maul.

ic, thanks!

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
I'm not downplaying him, infact I think that he's more powerful than some other people give him credit for. I just don't think that he's "far" more powerful than Kas'im.
Yes you are, but trying to say that vader isn't more powerful than a guy who has done almost nothing in the force is absurd and shows your blatant idiocy.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Kas'im states in PoD that a guy that superior in sabers can defeat a guy that's superior in the force.
He is right to a certain degree, but then again you blatant moron, explain to me how the h-e-l-l is his uber saber skills going to help him when vader unleashes a massive telekinetic attack before he can get up close?

STOP being so stupid, hell for shits sake change your name to "HeWhoKnowsnothing."

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Also, if the force is so much more important in a fight, then why not just practice all force and only practicing deflecting blaster bolts for the lightsaber?
Are you born stupid? If a jedi is going to practice sabers for blot deflection, he is obviously going to practice is for close up combat.

Your stupidity is unbelivable, its like asking me why soldiers train for hand to hand combat when the vast majority of the time they are using guns and all sorts of weapons to kill their enemies.

Its called balance moron, you can't be good in one aspect and be shit in another.

And i never said the force is "much much more important" in the fight, it just plays a large role(like how bane tooled your precious kasim in a force fight when he lost to him in sabers)

Vader > your precious kasim, accept it and move on with life and if you can't do that, go to the bathroom and use the razor to accept it.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsnothing

Even if you disagree with me, my logic is NOT as stupid as you think. They are perfectly legitimate arguments, whether or not they are correct.

It IS stupid, its sad that your too stupid to realise it and your arguments are not legitimate, you offer no proof, you make unsubstantiated claims and you put claims that cause people to misunderstand.

Don't tell me that your arguments are "perfectly" legitimate, last i recall the better debaters of this forum outright insult your intelligence and abilities to debate.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsnothing

Because knowledge of the force DOES help you in fights, plus it allows you to move objects (which can be useful in many combat and non-combat situations) "persuade" people, sense bad situations, enhance your strength/speed/stamina/etc, and much more.
Thanks for shooting your own foot and backing me up.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsnothing

There would be excessive use of the force, but there's also excessive use of the lightsaber.
And is vader, despite his limitations in saber combat going to face kasim in a pure saber duel? No, and kasim isn't going to tool vader(you DO know vaders lightsaber style is completely alien to almost everybody he fought and you did see what happened to bane when he faced an unfamiliar style) with ease in a saber combat, vader is still going to have time to pull off a massive force attack that will tear kasim to shreds.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsnothing

Kas'im was shown to at the last instant put up a force shield and still block a force attack that shattered a temple.
You mean block a force attack that shattered the foundations of a 20 000 year old temple?

So what? He barely put that shield up in time or he would have been annihilated, whats to stop vader from ragdolling him with the force like he did to so many jedi?(One of whom is powerful enough to tear a space stations command module apart with ease).

You fail.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsnothing

I'm not arguing for either Kas'im or Vader when it comes to who will WIN (although I might be leaning towards Kas'im) but Vader isn't FAR more powerful. It would be close.

LOL and how exactly is kasim going to beat vader in an all out fight if vader uses excessive force attacks?

Seriously shut the **** up, get some proof and then come back and debate.

The forum needs less idiots like you.

Now, substantiate as to why kasim would beat vader in the force or shut the hell up.

Hewhoknowsall, when Kas'im said the thing about sabers, force, he actually said that not having the same force-ability as Bane put him at a disadvantage. He was able to make up for it with years of practice, but obviously, Bane caught up quickly.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179
Yes you are, but trying to say that vader isn't more powerful than a guy who has done almost nothing in the force is absurd and shows your blatant idiocy.

Dude, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM????!!!??!! Apparently your maturity level is about that of a 1st grader, because you are incapable of debating without bashing people. Do you no realize something called manners? If you think that someone is fat, you don't just go up to them and say that they're fat to their face, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY AREN'T ACTUALLY FAT!!!! Just take a chill, relax, and calm down.

And once again you fail to actually read, because I never said that Vader isn't more powerful. I said that Kas'im would PUT UP A GOOD FIGHT, not necessarily win.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

He is right to a certain degree, but then again you blatant [b]moron, explain to me how the h-e-l-l is his uber saber skills going to help him when vader unleashes a massive telekinetic attack before he can get up close?
[/B]

1. Kas'im has shown to be able to block force attacks of considerable power.

2. Kas'im isn't a wimp in the force. Sure Vader is more powerful, but Kas'im himself is more than capable of using it too.

3. Explain to ME how Vader's uber force powers are going to help him when Kas'im manages to close the gap and start hitting him (other than providing a slight boost in strength/speed).

4. What do you mean by "he is right to a certain degree"? Kas'im has mastered EVERY sequence of every form (except for Vapaad). Has Vader mastered even a tenth of every force move?

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

STOP being so stupid, hell for shits sake change your name to "HeWhoKnows[b]nothing."
Are you born stupid? If a jedi is going to practice sabers for blot deflection, he is obviously going to practice is for close up combat.
[/B]

...

are you serious?

HOW is it obvious that one who practices deflection would practice up close combat? They are two completely different things with two very different purposes: one is to defend against blaster bolts, the other is to fight against other saber wielding opponents. The latter is, according to you, useless if your enemy is stronger in the force (which contradicts a blademaster with decades of experience), so why not spend all that wasted effort on getting stronger in the force so that you can pwn your enemies before they even get close?

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

Your stupidity is unbelivable, its like asking me why soldiers train for hand to hand combat when the vast majority of the time they are using guns and all sorts of weapons to kill their enemies.

They train hand to hand, but that's only a small part of their combat training. Of the combat part of the jedi's training, lightsaber dueling takes up a very large portion of it.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

And i never said the force is "much much more important" in the fight, it just plays a [b]large role(like how bane tooled your precious kasim in a force fight when he lost to him in sabers)
[/B]

If it isn't "much more important", then why is Vader far more powerful? Kas'im > Vader in sabers, and Vader > Kas'im in the force. Even if the force is more important, you just said that the force isn't FAR more important, so therefore Vader isn't FAR more powerful! It's pretty simple.

And no, Bane didn't "tool" Kas'im. Kas'im managed to block it, it's just that by chance they were in a temple, so the temple came crashing down on him. Had they been on open ground, Kas'im wouldn't have been injured or killed.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

And is vader, despite his limitations in saber combat going to face kasim in a pure saber duel? No, and kasim isn't going to tool vader(you DO know vaders lightsaber style is completely alien to almost everybody he fought and you did see what happened to bane when he faced an unfamiliar style) with ease in a saber combat, vader is still going to have time to pull off a massive force attack that will tear kasim to shreds.

Vader is not aware of even a tenth of the lightsaber styles and sequences that Kas'im knows. Has he ever fought against a double sided lightsaber (other than that clone of Maul, who BEAT Vader and wouldn't won had he not been so arrogant)? No, so it will be very alien to Vader. Vader's form on the other hand is just a variation of Form 5.

And when did I say that Kas'im tools Vader in sabers? Stop making up stuff.

Originally posted by Wolverine2179

Now, substantiate as to why kasim would beat vader in the force or shut the hell up.

He doesn't. But he DOES beat Vader in sabers.

And your argument is basically "oh Vader uins cose heh jast blo Kas'im up wath Force!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Explain how Vader can beat Kas'im up with the force so badly.

And explain why Vader doesn't do this to every opponent that he faces that's inferior in the force.

And Kas'im vs Bane is an example of how one skilled in sabers beat one skilled in the force. Bane only ended up winning via luck.

Originally posted by truejedi
Hewhoknowsall, when Kas'im said the thing about sabers, force, he actually said that not having the same force-ability as Bane put him at a disadvantage. He was able to make up for it with years of practice, but obviously, Bane caught up quickly.

True, but not having the same saber skills as Kas'im but BANE at a disadvantage as well.

Well I don't know what you guys are talking about.. I'm just sad that Advent ignored me. 🙁

Subjekt? Really?!

I missed you, sir.

Finally, the forum homosexual returns.

Originally posted by Eminence
Subjekt? Really?!

I missed you, sir.

I could say the same about you Eminence, there has been less intelligent comments since... you came back.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Well I don't know what you guys are talking about.. I'm just sad that Advent ignored me. 🙁

Do you think that Vader is FAR (keyword: FAR) more powerful than Kas'im?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Explain how Vader can beat Kas'im up with the force so badly.

Explain how Kas'im could touch Vader when he is suspended in a force grip.

Originally posted by The Ground
Explain how Kas'im could touch Vader when he is suspended in a force grip.

Wait what? Kas'im was able to defend himself against Bane's force wave. So he's NOT going to be able to defend himself against Vader's force grip? I'm confused here.

Originally posted by The Ground
Explain how Kas'im could touch Vader when he is suspended in a force grip.

See Dr McBeefington's post above, and why didn't Vader just do that to everyone that he faced? Because many of them (including Kas'im) could block it!

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Well I don't know what you guys are talking about.. I'm just sad that Advent ignored me. 🙁

REX deleted my reply because it wasn't PG-13.

Originally posted by Eminence
Subjekt? Really?!

I missed you, sir.

The sentiment is mutual... but i don't remember who you are. But I missed you anyways.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Finally, the forum homosexual returns.
I assume you were getting lonely?
Originally posted by Advent
REX deleted my reply because it wasn't PG-13.
Did you send me a Rated R reply? 😉 Just kidding.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Do you think that Vader is FAR (keyword: FAR) more powerful than Kas'im?

Uh... maybe in technical power level, but not FAR above in knowledge and ability... if that makes sense to you.

1. Em is Faunus
2. OH SNAP
3. ALSO OH SNAP

1. word
2. oh, word?
3. haha....word

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
Dude, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM????!!!??!! Apparently your maturity level is about that of a 1st grader, because you are incapable of debating without bashing people.
I am incapable of debating with stupid/ignorant people hence i bash them.

When was the last time i bashed truejedi or Dr Mcbeefington this badly during a debate? Oh right last i recall, none.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Do you no realize something called manners? If you think that someone is fat, you don't just go up to them and say that they're fat to their face, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY AREN'T ACTUALLY FAT!!!! Just take a chill, relax, and calm down.
So are you admitting to be actually stupid but your upset that i am outright telling it to you in your face? Whats the matter? Can't handle the truth?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And once again you fail to actually read, because I never said that Vader isn't more powerful. I said that Kas'im would PUT UP A GOOD FIGHT, not necessarily win.
And yet you say kasim MIGHT win, now your contradiction yourself making you look even less credible.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

1. Kas'im has shown to be able to block force attacks of considerable power.
Yeah, he could barely block the attack for your information and vaders command of the force as of TFU surpasses that of bane as of POD.

Dude, vader casually choked rahm kota and ragdolled him with relative ease, the same rahm kota that tore a space station's comman module apart and sent the entire facility to critical condition.

Vader is capable of overwhelming powerful(and above average force users obviously) individuals.

Kasim may throw up a shield but whats to say that vaders powerful attacks and sheer rage isn't going to smash through any defences kasim put up?(Bane did the same thing to qoordis).

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

2. Kas'im isn't a wimp in the force. Sure Vader is more powerful, but Kas'im himself is more than capable of using it too.
Yeah and the only thing kasim has ever done with the force(at least to what i recall) is barely throw up a shield to block a force attack.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

3. Explain to ME how Vader's uber force powers are going to help him when Kas'im manages to close the gap and start hitting him (other than providing a slight boost in strength/speed).
And how is kasim going to close the gap if vader unleashes an attack that kasim cannot defend against?

Hell even if he does close the gap, he isn't going to be owning vader in sabers because he is fighting a style that has elements of the majority of light saber forms and that gives vader a slight advantage and would allow vader to hold his own until theres an opportunity to unleash massive TK attacks to overwhelm kasim.

You have seen what vader is capable off during a saber duel, he, durign a duel is capable of manipulating the environment to his advantage and then kill his enemies.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

4. What do you mean by "he is right to a certain degree"? Kas'im has mastered EVERY sequence of every form (except for Vapaad). Has Vader mastered even a tenth of every force move?
So what if vader mastered only a tenth of every force moves? Are you implying that he is weak? Because vaders command of the force says other wise and he greatly surpasses any nightsisters(that has more force moves than him) .

And according to some guide, it was stated that galen marek learned many dark side powers from vader.

Now lightning + TK isn't considered "many" you know?
Gideon listed the quotes and i will get them.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

...

are you serious?

HOW is it obvious that one who practices deflection would practice up close combat? They are two completely different things with two very different purposes: one is to defend against blaster bolts, the other is to fight against other saber wielding opponents. The latter is, according to you, useless if your enemy is stronger in the force (which contradicts a blademaster with decades of experience), so why not spend all that wasted effort on getting stronger in the force so that you can pwn your enemies before they even get close?

So what is your point here moron? Just what are you trying to tell me?

That kasim's saber mastery is going to overwhelms vaders command of the force?

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

They train hand to hand, but that's only a small part of their combat training. Of the combat part of the jedi's training, lightsaber dueling takes up a very large portion of it.

Just see the above, I'm just saying the force can overwhelm a saber master because according to numerous individuals, the force is a far more terrible weapon.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

If it isn't "much more important", then why is Vader far more powerful? Kas'im > Vader in sabers, and Vader > Kas'im in the force. Even if the force is more important, you just said that the force isn't FAR more important, so therefore Vader isn't FAR more powerful! It's pretty simple.
More important = More powerful?

Oh god are you serious? Is this how far your intelligence has decreased ?

First off your assuming kasim is greater than vader in sabers because of a simple quote, hell vader has defeated roan shryne who was also stated to be a master of lightsaber combat and just how are you called a master if you don't master the lightsaber forms? Hmm?

Let me use your logic against you.

First off, i'll assume kasim is superior to vader in sabers, but as far as this goes, he doesn't surpass vader that much.
On the other hand, as far as command of the force goes, vader vastly surpasses kasim in the force, keyword: vastly.

So by your own logic, vader IS far more powerful than kasim.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And no, Bane didn't "tool" Kas'im. Kas'im managed to block it, it's just that by chance they were in a temple, so the temple came crashing down on him. Had they been on open ground, Kas'im wouldn't have been injured or killed.
I'll ignore this one, ROT bane would have been a different story.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Vader is not aware of even a tenth of the lightsaber styles and sequences that Kas'im knows. Has he ever fought against a double sided lightsaber (other than that clone of Maul, who BEAT Vader and wouldn't won had he not been so arrogant)? No, so it will be very alien to Vader. Vader's form on the other hand is just a variation of Form 5.
Your stupidity and ignorance is getting very disturbing.

Vader is not aware of a tenth of the lightsaber styles? The how come the rise of darth vader states that vaders lightsaber style has several different forms in it?

However, Vader was able to overcome this limitation fairly quickly, developing a refined version of Djem So that continued to include Ataru and Soresu elements, but also added Makashi and Juyoto the mix. With this new form, Vader regained some of his old agility, and his bladework was brutally effective, being crisp and unpredictable.

^ This may be from wookiepedia, but the actual source material is in RODV(its sad i no longer have the book) and i have read the novel myself and this has been CONFIRMED.

So really, combining elements of several forms into a singular lightsaber form takes considerable skills to do so.

Seriously, your an idiot and a perpetual liar.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And when did I say that Kas'im tools Vader in sabers? Stop making up stuff.
Ok, provided you shut the hell up.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

He doesn't. But he DOES beat Vader in sabers.
Fair enough, but he does not vastly surpass vader in sabers but sadly vader surpass him vastly in the force.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And your argument is basically "oh Vader uins cose heh jast blo Kas'im up wath Force!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
No it isn't, its just sad you don't know how to read and just desperate to win by lying and making up shit that vader is ignorant in the force and only has knowledge on one lightsaber form.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

Explain how Vader can beat Kas'im up with the force so badly.

Explain to me how rahm kota and kento marek got beaten so badly in the force, kento had ample time to throw up defences yet he still gets overwhelmed.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And explain why Vader doesn't do this to every opponent that he faces that's inferior in the force.
Explain to me why sidious doesn't use a force storm(ot other devastating dark side techniques) every single time he faces opponents that's inferior in the force.

Explain to me why kreia doesn't "insta kill" everybody she comes across.

Its called inconsistency or personal preference, there are individuals that simply choose to engage their enemies in a lightsaber duel of their own will or always use the force.

Continued.....

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall

And Kas'im vs Bane is an example of how one skilled in sabers beat one skilled in the force. Bane only ended up winning via luck.

True, but not having the same saber skills as Kas'im but BANE at a disadvantage as well.

Don't babble bullshit.

What do you mean bane didn't have the same saber skills as kasim? He constantly beat kasim and kasim had to keep changing lightsaber styles to keep up with bane.

Kasim ONLY beat bane because he switched to the jair kai form which bane DID NOT LEARN and hence didn't memorize the sequences of that lightsaber form.

Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
See Dr McBeefington's post above, and why didn't Vader just do that to everyone that he faced? Because many of them (including Kas'im) could block it!
Lets see, who were these people that could block it? Can you name these "people" hewhoknowsnothing?

I forgot how he overpowered powerful individuals that tear space stations apart 😗

I also forget that there was ample time between kasim and bane during their exchange of words for bane to throw a force attack and for kasim to see it coming and barely block it.

You know if kasim barely blocked an attack after such a pause between him and bane i wonder how is he going to have time to conjure up any sort of defence if vader unleashes his powers so sudden that it would catch kasim off guard.
FAIL

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt

Uh... maybe in technical power level, but not FAR above in knowledge and ability... if that makes sense to you.

Ability and knowledge in force i'd argue that he(vader) surpasses him. I have never seen kasim do anything with the force but bring up a shield.

Honestly, I didn't read through all that, so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but wasn't Kas'im's force feat that everyone clings to more of a redirection of the force wave rather than a straight up, shoulders squared block?

If so, I would think that would somewhat diminish the feat a bit.